Author Topic: ship classes  (Read 11171 times)

Jangiri

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« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2008, 04:45:21 AM »
look closely
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Barid Bel Medar

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« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2008, 05:08:29 AM »
Quote from: Jangiri;100940
look closely



That picture is from razor.  You can also see the flight pod of the galactica off to the left hand side.  that right there is the deathscene of the first columbia from razor.  check out the wibosides, you can see the same scene there.  the ship split in half in the mini series is so degraded even on super zoom and HD, I cant make out the writing at all.
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Wolfy

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« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2008, 10:36:02 AM »
Quote from: Jangiri;100939
if you look closely at the flight pod on the one exploding over caprica it says columbia

in the comm chatter in the miniseries it talks about battlestar triton and atlantia by the scorpion fleet shipyards. im not sure if thats what it said but thats what i heard


The shipyards where never mentioned in the miniseries, im pretty sure the only fight location was "Over Virgon", going to check the miniseries DVD now
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Wolfy

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« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2008, 11:56:02 AM »
I just checked, Adama says "Atlantia, Triton, Solaria and Columbia, The list continues, have all been destroyed"

You dont here anything about them in background chatter, however in the original Battlestar Galactica, while the opening fight is in progress you here in background chater from the above mentioned battlestars
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Foundry

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« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2008, 04:29:42 PM »
I don't think there's even the need for anything more than Battlestars anyway. With a fighting force of a battleship and a complement of fighters and utility craft that can get to places quickly there's really no need for any kind of escort/fast attack ship. I mean to say that in the BSG universe they don't need any Corvettes, Frigates, Destroyers etc. It's because the armed forces in the BSG universe are so advanced. It's becoming the same in the real world too. In the real world the Aircraft carrier reigns supreme. The only other vessels that are used regularly by real-world navies are submarines and destroyers. The latter of which is only really used for escort, patrol and on occasion assault and the former of which is to destroy vessels using stealth and to provide a hard to detect mobile missile base.

In BSG ships and fighters are not restrained by different mediums such as water and sea; they're all in space. A group of fighters or Raptors (the latter probably seeing as how they can board vessels) can just as easily run down pirates and criminals as destroyers/patrol boats can today and more effectively as they are small and nimble and most importantly they operate in the same medium as any ship: space.

A Battlestar is the Colonial's ultimate answer for a jack-of-all-trades military vessel. It can do anything it wants whether the vessel itself is used or it's complement of Vipers and Raptors. Unless there is a good, solid argument for having warships in the BSG universe other than a Battlestar then I can't see the need for anything further.

Wolfy

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« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2008, 05:33:38 PM »
Personally, i like the idea of there being other military ships, for jobs that dont require the size/power of a battlestar.

Also, in a mdoern naval fleet, you obviously have the Carrier, which can deffend its self to a certain extent, but they do have Escrots such as Submarines, Frigates and Destoryers. In the Royal Navy, Destroyers are Anti-Air (so in space, they would be responceible for defence from fighters and missiles, working with a battlestars FLAK, that would make an almost impenitrable defence), Frigates are Anti Submarine, so not required in space, Submarines are used to attack surface ships, so in space they would be used to attack a target, presumably while being covered by a destroyers flak or missiles for defence.

After that, theres theres Patrol ships, but Raptors fit that role, as they also fit the Transport, EWAR and Bomber roles. While Vipers fill th role as a fighter.

I just dont see the point in havign a fleet full of battlestar, which probally cost alot to build/maintain, when you can have smaller faster ships capable of doing roles
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Foundry

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« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2008, 07:27:37 PM »
Quote from: Wolfy;101019
Personally, i like the idea of there being other military ships, for jobs that dont require the size/power of a battlestar.

Also, in a mdoern naval fleet, you obviously have the Carrier, which can deffend its self to a certain extent, but they do have Escrots such as Submarines, Frigates and Destoryers. In the Royal Navy, Destroyers are Anti-Air (so in space, they would be responceible for defence from fighters and missiles, working with a battlestars FLAK, that would make an almost impenitrable defence), Frigates are Anti Submarine, so not required in space, Submarines are used to attack surface ships, so in space they would be used to attack a target, presumably while being covered by a destroyers flak or missiles for defence.

After that, theres theres Patrol ships, but Raptors fit that role, as they also fit the Transport, EWAR and Bomber roles. While Vipers fill th role as a fighter.

I just dont see the point in havign a fleet full of battlestar, which probally cost alot to build/maintain, when you can have smaller faster ships capable of doing roles


That's my point though. A modern carrier of our water navies has to have escorts because it isn't capable of defending itself to the same extent a dedicated vessel such as a destroyer can. Take the modern naval carrier: it's main role is to function as a moving airbase but because that is it's main function defences are limited to how much else you can fit onboard; which is not very much. A Battlestar is just so freaking huge that it can have anything you want to stick on it.

Smaller faster ships such as destroyers, frigates and the like are only really required by the navy because you can't get the same amount of equipment in the air (unless you're using lots and lots of aeroplanes). The Aircraft carrier is really the only naval power that means anything anyway. The seas are all ruled from the air, space is ruled from...space. Therefore Vipers, Raptors and Battlestars are all equal components. The only naval unit that can really compete with air units are advanced anti-air destroyers such as the Type-45 (built near where I live. Supposedly can shoot down a golf ball several miles away. Fat chance if it's true).

Still, what you've said about the fleet of Battlestars is more or less true. They do look bloody expensive. I suppose the only reason they were kept around is because they're the best known defence against the Cylons. Since the Cylon basestar is the only Cylon warship we've seen so far it's possible that-whether or not you forego all arguments about smaller warships-the best defence the Colonial's had were Battlestars and that they kept them exclusively in case of another Cylon invasion. Given time Battlestars may have become redundant given the lack of action they had seen since the First Cylon War.

Don't forget also that the impact of massive space-faring warships on the Colonial's economy is probably only equal to the impact Carrier Groups have on the US economy since the Colonies are a group of 12 united planets.

If the Cylons themselves had smaller warships then I'd say it would be a necessity for the Colonials to build counters to those as well i.e. their own smaller warships. I can't see why this would come about though as anything smaller than a battlestar would be shredded if it came close and anything smaller than that, while being able to out-run a Battlestar, would get bee-hived by Vipers and Raptors. Again it's rapidly becoming the same situation today as any naval vessel, carriers and anti-air units included, can be significantly damaged by air attack. There's no perfect defence. This is a problem when dealing with US Carriers. They believe there's no need for armoured decks because in theory a missile launched by a Fighter-Bomber shouldn't be able to get through. It doesn't matter how robust defences become there's always a way to get through. Even a Battlestar, with it's huge size owing to it's effective defences, can be fragged by a bunch of Raiders.

Jangiri

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« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2008, 11:14:17 PM »
many smaller enemies can overcome one great foe
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wiley

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« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2008, 11:17:37 PM »
ever try smacking a beehive?
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Jangiri

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« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2008, 01:43:26 AM »
well said
battlestars or basestars don't have enough weapons to take out four or five smaller vessels. it takes too long to target one ship and kill it. it is not efficient enough. they should have fire support vessels
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Cl1nt

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« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2008, 05:59:54 AM »
Ever try smacking a beehive with a shell that's more than twice the size of a human?

A battlestar can attack as many ships as it wants. Every turret can individually target a ship. Small ships would get torn up in one or two shots.
Or something.



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Enki

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« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2008, 06:07:16 AM »
I love how these armchair admirals proclaim one thing or another about Naval Combat, be it in space or afloat, and how the ships are designed.  Especially when some of the comments are flat out wrong.

Foundry, you should have left well enough alone.  Your first post was overall reasonable, just a few minor inaccuracies, but nothing to really get wound up over.  The last one though though...  very rough with good and wrong freely mixed together.   You were OK until you started with the escort roles and ship designs.

Cl1nt

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« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2008, 06:13:24 AM »
I think when talking about small ships attacking a battlestar, people need to remember the main guns on Galactica fire shells about the same size as a Viper. I'd say Peggy's guns were even bigger.
Or something.



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wiley

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« Reply #43 on: May 26, 2008, 06:26:29 AM »
The U.S. Navy considers an aircraft carrier vulnerable, thats why it is deployed as part of a Carrier Battle Group. The Battle Group varies depending on the circumstances but always with - Carrier - Air wing - at least 2 destroyers - at least 1 missile cruiser - at least 1 submarine and a supply ship. So in the water the air group provides basic protection for the battle group and the battle group provides logistics and protection for the carrier.

like this -
[ATTACH]4364[/ATTACH]

The point is if a carrier battle group is deployed with at least 5 or as many 19 ships, It would seem logical that a space based carrier would be deployed in a similar fashion.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2008, 09:22:28 AM by wiley »
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Tikey

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« Reply #44 on: May 26, 2008, 05:41:38 PM »
The only reason I've ever seen logical to have smaller vessels are for missions in which a battleship with the firepower and size of a battlestar would be over the top.
Smaller crafts for peacekeeping, patrol and other small duties.

Just my two cents.