Author Topic: Season 4 Ep 2 Discussion *Spoilers*  (Read 6758 times)

karajorma

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Season 4 Ep 2 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2008, 04:24:34 PM »
One interesting point that comes to mind now that the Centurions can think. Didn't Six say that they keep older model Centurions around for certain duties in the mini-series? Were they lobotomised too? If not, what were they doing with them? If so are they getting their higher brain functions back now?

Enki

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Season 4 Ep 2 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2008, 04:29:01 PM »
Quote from: Herra Tohtori;97061
Enjoyable episode in my opinion.

Questions answeres, and just as many answers questioned. I've liked the two episodes so far, and I don't agree with Lepton's analysis of acting and dialogue being weaker than before... different perhaps, but they have worked for me thus far. Though some of the dialogue was a bit hard to hear for some reason in this episode. Might be that English is not my native language.


I agree, the dialog has been far deeper and psychologically warped. I found it much better than last week's episode--which wasn't bad either.  Kudo's also for the new dramatic shot angles used for some of the ships.  Making some of those standards feel a bit different.

On the dialog I agree.  Even for an english speaker I gave my tivo a workout to catch a whole grunge of Baltar's lines and I still can't grok one of them while he was doing Tori.

kristofori

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Season 4 Ep 2 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2008, 04:30:03 PM »
I love the discussions on here. Just discovered Btrl and I'm excited to play it.

I think the episodes of the new season have been phenomenal! Just to see where everyone has ended

 up shows how much everyone has grown and changed. Laura is questioning her faith, bill is gaining some,gaius has accepted he's gone bonkers and six has instigated mutiny. I think its fantastic with what they're doing and I don't doubt the writers or producers a bit.

And yeah, I loved the way the centurions looked at each other when they walked in with six. Can't wait to see what happens!

KewlToyZ

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Season 4 Ep 2 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2008, 04:36:49 PM »
Welcome aboard Kris!
The 4th season is awesome so far.
Right now I would find it pretty hard to beleive there could ever be any dissapointment.
Anyone saying it has gotten weaker is seriously full of issues noone cares about.
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Slamscape

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Season 4 Ep 2 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2008, 04:38:44 PM »
When the hybrid says they won't harm their own, shes referring to the raiders turning away from attacking the fleet, I believe it comes up again when the the cylons are discussing the final five

Sparky

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Season 4 Ep 2 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2008, 04:46:34 PM »
Quote from: karajorma;97094
One interesting point that comes to mind now that the Centurions can think. Didn't Six say that they keep older model Centurions around for certain duties in the mini-series? Were they lobotomised too? If not, what were they doing with them? If so are they getting their higher brain functions back now?


Actually it was more like:
Quote

Baltar: "I'm sorry, but the last time anyone saw the Cylons they looked more like walking chrome toasters."
Six: "Those models are still around.  They have their uses."



From this conversation, its hard to tell whether she was refering to the old-school Centurions, or the fact that they still have the mechanical variety around at all.
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wiley

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Season 4 Ep 2 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2008, 04:49:13 PM »
The hybrid said some other things too. "Transformation is the goal" and Reduce or cut "the atmospheric nitrogen by 0.03%". Maybe they find a planet but it needs a nudge.
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KewlToyZ

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Season 4 Ep 2 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2008, 04:49:55 PM »
The older models were expressive with the Hybrid.
So I beleive they can and will be visible.
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Lepton

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Season 4 Ep 2 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2008, 06:04:08 PM »
Anyone think that it is exceedingly odd that all of the revealed Final Five had ample opportunity to come face to face with the non-skinjob cylons during the Occupation, but were never recognized by them as Cylons.  One will certainly offer the argument that the Final Five were not activated or conscious of their identity, etc; however, when Anders encounters the raider, he is in no way conscious of communicating with the raider.   He is not consciously initiating the action.  

So if it's an inherent ability beyond conscious control, why has it not activated in the past?  If its activation and use is not conscious, how does the character's awareness of his or her identity have anything to do with it?  Frankly, I don't buy the "activation" argument.  The music was a very conscious choice to do something breaking the fourth wall/meta in the storytelling which I loathed.  The Ancients/Lords/Thirteen Tribe did not choose to activate the Final Five with some lame version of the "On the Watchtower" that could have only come into existence in the equal lame period after the 90s.

And lest someone point to Boomer being "activated", everything that Boomer did she was nearly totally unconscious of.  When the bombs were placed in "Water", she wakes up not knowing where she is or what she has done.  She places a bomb on her own raptor and nearly detonates it to avoid detecting the water.  She is not aware of who is she or what she is doing.  So her "activation" is nothing like this other supposed "activation" of the Final Five.  

So whatever external or interior process that triggered this conscious realization for the Five, it seems at odds with the fact that the basis of the recognition by the raider was a process that involved no conscious, volitional action or awareness.  In other words, it's bull.  The writers were like:

"Dude, we need to put the other cylons in the story for fan service and give them some fan service name like the Final Five."

"Man, how are we going to do that?"

"Hey, let's just like turn them on with some emo remake of a classic rock song that shows we are like totally going meta here.  How po-mo would that be??!!!"

"Dude, you are on the right track there.  Then every week we can have the characters act like a bunch of fanbois discussing their theories on web forums.  The viewers will love it and it will like mixing all that high brow/low brow stuff that I heard of in college once."

"But, Dude, wait.  Who are these Final Five going to be?  I don't want to write another set of backstories for a whole new set of characters!!"

"No, Dude, no.  We just use existing characters that everyone already knows.  That makes it easy and it will really screw with everyone watching the show.  They'll be like 'Dude, NO WAY!!'"

"Yeah, yeah, that will be F'ing awesome.  Awesome, dude."

Pause.  Pause.

"But wait.  If we use existing characters and make them Cylons, how come the other Cylons never recognized them before?  That doesn't make sense."

"Dude, no problem, it's because like they were never turned on before.  And now we are turning them on for the fan service.  The whole thing explains itself."

"Wow, that's F'ed up.  We're gonna flip the switch and everything these people were and did will be called into question.  What a mind f___!"

"Dude, it's gonna be awesome!"



Hey, hey, BSG!!  How many sharks did you jump today??!!
« Last Edit: April 12, 2008, 07:31:14 PM by Lepton »

KewlToyZ

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Season 4 Ep 2 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2008, 06:30:52 PM »
It makes a good story :p
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David cgc

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Season 4 Ep 2 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #40 on: April 12, 2008, 06:33:49 PM »
Quote from: Lepton;97114

"Hey, let's just like turn them on with some emo remake of a classic rock song that shows we are like totally going meta here.  How po-mo would that be??!!!"


You know, once upon a time, I thought the word "emo" actually meant something. Luckily, now I understand that it's simply used as a catch-all term for "lame" regardless of whether or not something is actually unjustifiably pretending to be depressive, its constant misuse is a bit less grating. It's like how "gay" can be used as a pejorative without actually implying that something is related to homosexuality.
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karajorma

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Season 4 Ep 2 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2008, 06:41:49 PM »
Quote from: Sparky;97103
From this conversation, its hard to tell whether she was refering to the old-school Centurions, or the fact that they still have the mechanical variety around at all.


I'm referring to the bit in the mini-series where the Colonial officer is looking at spec sheets for the Centurions on Armistice station. She quite clearly is talking about the old model.

Sparky

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Season 4 Ep 2 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2008, 07:29:23 PM »
Yes, but the six on Armistice Station was not Caprica Six, and considering that no one had seen the Cylons in over 40 years, Colonial intel on them was outdated to say the least.  I don't see how either of those events had to do with the other, though.
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karajorma

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Season 4 Ep 2 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #43 on: April 12, 2008, 07:49:19 PM »
Quote from: Sparky;97127
Yes, but the six on Armistice Station was not Caprica Six, and considering that no one had seen the Cylons in over 40 years, Colonial intel on them was outdated to say the least.  I don't see how either of those events had to do with the other, though.


Who the hell said it was Caprica Six?

And I don't see what hell you're on about anyway. Re-read my original post now that you know what I was on about.

Roy Fokker

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Season 4 Ep 2 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #44 on: April 12, 2008, 09:01:29 PM »
Quote from: Lepton;97114
So whatever external or interior process that triggered this conscious realization for the Five, it seems at odds with the fact that the basis of the recognition by the raider was a process that involved no conscious, volitional action or awareness.  In other words, it's bull.


Did you ever consider evaluating events in the show according to the set of rules established , or at least hinted at, by the writers themselves, instead of what YOU alone think things should be? For the millionth time:

- we have no idea what the Final Five are like, except that they're Cylons. They don't know themselves, the regular models don't know, only the Cylon God knows, and perhaps the final Cylon model.

- it has been established that, somehow, in the BSG universe, time repeats in regular cycles, which is a religious explanation for something which will turn out to be the Big Reveal of the entire show. According to this, everything happens for a reason, the future can be predicted and every single individual has a role to play at a specific place in space and time. The Four that were "awakened" by Bob Dylan lyrics are only now serving their purpose. Is it so hard to imagine, especially after accepting transfer of consciousness, glowing spines, and similar plot elements, that the Final Five (or at least Four) are: 1) unique, 2) age like humans, 3) were 100% impossible to tell apart from humans before activation, and 4) are now detectable by Cylons, through the same "psychic" link that has already been established as something Cylons have?

Of course, there's nothing that guarantees we'll get satisfying answers and explanations for all this by the end, but saying it doesn't make sense so far is bull.