Author Topic: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*  (Read 21425 times)

Angreifer

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Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #90 on: April 07, 2008, 10:46:05 PM »
Quote from: spdrcr;96446
yea but the human race has been on the brink for a while. Besides he trusted athena to go to new caprica and save the humans there and he new she was a cylon. Whats the difference. Without starbuck they would never have gotten the arrow of athena. I guess Starbuck need a little abuse anyway.


That's the thing though; they knew Athena was a Cylon. In Starbuck's case, the only thing they know is she looks and sounds like the person she's supposed to be. They know nothing else about her. There's too much unknown to take any kind of chance. As it is, they apparently took a chance in letting her out of a cell at all, judging by how the episode ended.

Doctor Who

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Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #91 on: April 07, 2008, 11:14:53 PM »
Anyone else think that the last scene with Starbuck pointing the gun at the president looks a lot like the scene where the 6 shot Admiral Cain? When it was shown in the preveiws I actually thought it was the same scene the first few times.

TESLA

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Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #92 on: April 07, 2008, 11:38:33 PM »
Quote from: Doctor Who;96464
Anyone else think that the last scene with Starbuck pointing the gun at the president looks a lot like the scene where the 6 shot Admiral Cain? When it was shown in the preveiws I actually thought it was the same scene the first few times.


Actually you have a point there. Certain things were stricking me in that episode (found a way to watch it ;) ) i thought starbuck was acting very much like the degraded six on Peggy. Not sure what it was, but even the style of hair, the eye stares, just seemed so similar....... hmmm maybe starbuck is a cylon and the six is a flawed model of her or something,
who knows, maybe just my imagination playing up lol
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Yueh

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Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #93 on: April 08, 2008, 04:39:03 AM »
I have to agree with the couple of people who had some complaints about the season opener. It didn't have the same tension as the series normally has. I think you'll appreciate this more when you see it on dvd a couple of times.

I still thoroughly enjoyed it but I am more uneasy that they have so many unanswered questions and other plot developments that look like they will lead to a very unsatisfactory ending. Those 4 being cylons (Tigh and Chief especially, Anders makes a bit more sense, and the other girl fine, we barely knew her anyway) really makes it hard to watch the earlier episodes and colours everything those characters did. I think the writers are writing themselves into a corner with shocking twists they haven't really thought through yet.

Also everyone has a habit of not asking enough follow up questions on the show. If someone says "the final five are close," you don't go get chemo, you ask them how close, would you recognise them, why are you not allowed to think about them, etc. Maybe it was just so shocking she had to go lie down for a bit.

Also the time discrepancy is easily explained since time slows down as you approach the speed of light. With the sort of physics details that discussions descend into here I'm surprised no-one noticed that. Perhaps I missed something.

Enki

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Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #94 on: April 08, 2008, 05:17:41 AM »
Quote from: Yueh;96504
I have to agree with the couple of people who had some complaints about the season opener. It didn't have the same tension as the series normally has. I think you'll appreciate this more when you see it on dvd a couple of times.

I still thoroughly enjoyed it but I am more uneasy that they have so many unanswered questions and other plot developments that look like they will lead to a very unsatisfactory ending. Those 4 being cylons (Tigh and Chief especially, Anders makes a bit more sense, and the other girl fine, we barely knew her anyway) really makes it hard to watch the earlier episodes and colours everything those characters did. I think the writers are writing themselves into a corner with shocking twists they haven't really thought through yet.

Also everyone has a habit of not asking enough follow up questions on the show. If someone says "the final five are close," you don't go get chemo, you ask them how close, would you recognise them, why are you not allowed to think about them, etc. Maybe it was just so shocking she had to go lie down for a bit.

Also the time discrepancy is easily explained since time slows down as you approach the speed of light. With the sort of physics details that discussions descend into here I'm surprised no-one noticed that. Perhaps I missed something.


I agree on the inconsistency.  Overall good episode though.

As for not asking follow-up questions, we don't see everything, just what the director and writers want us to see, so there may be more that went on behind the scenes.  It gets difficult to definitively fill in the gaps absolutely.

Sparky

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Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #95 on: April 08, 2008, 05:40:45 AM »
This maybe a stupid idea, but perhaps Starbuck's Viper is the "Wings of an angel" that was described in the prophecy?
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karajorma

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Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #96 on: April 08, 2008, 06:35:07 AM »
Quote from: spdrcr;96446
yea but the human race has been on the brink for a while. Besides he trusted athena to go to new caprica and save the humans there and he new she was a cylon. Whats the difference. Without starbuck they would never have gotten the arrow of athena. I guess Starbuck need a little abuse anyway.


How would they even know that the Starbuck that they have now is the same person that they saw get the Arrow?

They trusted Athena because

1) She knew who and what she was
2) Even before they knew she was a Cylon she never did anything to betray them. Especially after she fell in love with Helo.
3) After it was revealed she was a Cylon she proved several times that she wanted to switch sides by helping the Colonials.

Now on the other hand your argument basically is that they should trust Starbuck cause she looks and sounds like someone they used to trust. She might not actually BE that person (Look at Boomer and Athena if you need proof of that!) but they should trust her just in case she is.

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Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #97 on: April 08, 2008, 07:09:19 AM »
Quote from: karajorma;96516
2) Even before they knew she was a Cylon she never did anything to betray them. Especially after she fell in love with Helo.


She stole Starbuck's Raider, complete with Colonial modifications, which then came back as Scar and preceded to pick off most of the Pegasus nuggets while bringing Starbuck to a near death experience, stopped thanks to Racetrack (RIP).

Quote
3) After it was revealed she was a Cylon she proved several times that she wanted to switch sides by helping the Colonials.


So?  Cylons have on numerous occasions worked to gain the trust of the Colonials for their own interests, whether it be to kill them or get impregnated by them.

Quote
Now on the other hand your argument basically is that they should trust Starbuck cause she looks and sounds like someone they used to trust. She might not actually BE that person (Look at Boomer and Athena if you need proof of that!) but they should trust her just in case she is.


I really don't know where the writers are going with this scenario that's a rip off of Contact, but hell I wouldn't trust someone that shows up in a bran new viper.  But then again, I've been surprised the Colonials still trust Boomer/Athena for this long.  The writers seem to favor portraying Athena as the "good" cylon, which sucks because it underwrites the original character of the cylons as being super manipulative.

newman

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Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #98 on: April 08, 2008, 07:11:18 AM »
Personally I love the new episode. There's only one thing I didn't like about it, and that was the hastily written dialogue part: "Chief, I'm gonna need you to develop my gun camera footage ASAP.."
Develop? What, they got a dark room filled with developing fluids somewhere? Good thing they're coming to earth.. we may know little about interstellar travel, but when it comes to digital cameras, we're masters.. ;)

edit: Ripoff of Contact? Look, I read the book and I saw the movie. Just because you found a vague similarity doesn't mean it's a ripoff. If what little is similar constitutes as a ripoff, hey then everything is a ripoff.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2008, 07:19:50 AM by newman »

Lepton

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Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #99 on: April 08, 2008, 07:15:23 AM »
I think it might be interesting to reference another sci-fi classic for some perspective on this issue.  Take the movie "Contact".  We have not a dissimilar situation.  Starbuck is asking that her intuition, her identity, her perceptions and experiences of Earth be trusted just as Arroway (the Jodie Foster character) asked to be believed when she came back from her extraterrestrial encounter.  Ultimately, it was a leap of faith, which as an atheist I find a deplorable way to have ended one of my favorite movies, but that is neither here nor there.  

Be that as it may, the writers have certainly played with issues of faith and trust in this show.  If Starbuck is not who she says that she is, then it is merely another screwy twist, like some good guy wrestler going bad.  But if she is indeed who she claims to be, then it is all the more dramatic for not being believed, for being doubted, for us doubting, and for the important information that she has.  I think the higher dramatic tension of her being who and what she claims and being doubted points us to the actual truth as the other alternative is just another unsatisfying head game on the viewer.  I don't think that is what the writers are aiming for.  I think if they did the reveal and she was found to be a Cylon, people would feel tricked.  It would be wholly unsatisfying.  It would totally flip all of her history, negating much of what had come before.  The whole human/cylon, Starbuck/Leoben tension.  The tests and captivity back on Caprica and New Caprica.  What would be the point?  "Oh, she was a cylon the whole time.  So what?"  I don't think the writers are going to unravel all their character development and story arcs for one dramatic and pointless switcheroo.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2008, 07:18:43 AM by Lepton »

Sidestep

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Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #100 on: April 08, 2008, 08:03:25 AM »
There's 3 options really;

1 It really is Starbuck
2 Starbuck has always been a Cylon and is the final one to be revealed
3 Starbuck has been replaced by a Cylon version of her to infiltrate the Colonial fleet

Personally I think it's still Starbuck, as like a few other people have said on here, putting her through all she's been through wouldn;t make a lot of sense if she had always been a Cylon (And surely when all the testing was going on the Cylons would have noticed that anatomically she was one of them), and are the Cylons capable of cloning a human completely, including their personality? And if she is a replacement and her job is to infiltrate the fleet, we should find out pretty quickly, because with a gun pointed at the Presidents head in the Admirals quarters, surely she could finish them both off and disrupt the fleet quite a bit!

I thought the first episode was great and leaves it open for a great journey on the last series.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2008, 08:32:23 AM by Sidestep »

newman

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Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #101 on: April 08, 2008, 08:18:59 AM »
I think they actually confirmed somewhere that Starbuck isn't a Cylon. One of the rare things they said with certainty.

Sidestep

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Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #102 on: April 08, 2008, 08:35:23 AM »
[spoiler]
Good, I think it would ruin it if she was a Cylon.

Who confirmed it Newman?

Just so long as it wasn't Baltar with his Cylon detector! ;)[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: April 08, 2008, 08:57:36 AM by Sidestep »

Fish

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Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #103 on: April 08, 2008, 08:52:28 AM »
You guys may want to discuss such things with spoiler tags, please.

karajorma

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Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
« Reply #104 on: April 08, 2008, 09:11:18 AM »
Quote from: HotBagel;96523
She stole Starbuck's Raider, complete with Colonial modifications, which then came back as Scar and preceded to pick off most of the Pegasus nuggets while bringing Starbuck to a near death experience, stopped thanks to Racetrack (RIP).

Umm. Racetrack's not dead. You're thinking of Kat.

Besides Athena chose to return after taking that Raider even though she didn't have to.

Finally although it's implied that that particular Raider is Scar there is no proof.

Quote
So?  Cylons have on numerous occasions worked to gain the trust of the Colonials for their own interests, whether it be to kill them or get impregnated by them.

And with that as a given doesn't it make it even more stupid to trust Starbuck when she also may be a Cylon then?