Author Topic: BSG 320 - Crossroads, Part II (SPOILERS)  (Read 26890 times)

Sparky

  • Purveyor of Insights
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 241
    • View Profile
BSG 320 - Crossroads, Part II (SPOILERS)
« Reply #165 on: March 31, 2007, 07:02:20 PM »
Quote from: karajorma;61581
On thing that scene did prove is that they won't get to Earth and find dinosaurs are still around and have a basestar crash and wipe them out. :D


Well, I already could tell you that because North America was oddly North America shaped.  But at least we can assume that the Romans won't nail Gaius Baltar to the Cross.
Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!

KypFisto

  • Callsign: Gulo
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 264
    • View Profile
BSG 320 - Crossroads, Part II (SPOILERS)
« Reply #166 on: March 31, 2007, 07:11:09 PM »
Quote from: Sparky;61589
But at least we can assume that the Romans won't nail Gaius Baltar to the Cross.


Aww man, and I was so looking forward to that.

Ace

  • The Blue Fist of Doom
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 133
    • View Profile
    • http://www.savant-online.net/
BSG 320 - Crossroads, Part II (SPOILERS)
« Reply #167 on: March 31, 2007, 09:14:55 PM »
Quote from: Sparky;61589
But at least we can assume that the Romans won't nail Gaius Baltar to the Cross.


Nah, they're still veering straight for that one.

$5 that Starbuck fraks Pilate before the end!
Ace
Self-plagiarism is style.
-Alfred Hitchcock

Nothing_But_The_Rain

  • Callsign: \"Wolfman\"
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
    • View Profile
BSG 320 - Crossroads, Part II (SPOILERS)
« Reply #168 on: March 31, 2007, 09:15:42 PM »
In reading these posts, I've seen some unnervingly wacky theories. Terrans producing Vipers? Wormholes? Clones? This isn't BSG1980, guys. They may be doing some truly daring things, narratively, but they haven't jumped the shark yet.

All of these attempts stem from the belief that there is more meaning to be found in wholly scientifically-derived explanations for the events within the story. I think that events in the BSG universe stem from an entirely different source. This show, from day one, has been more about philosophy, ethics, and metaphysics than hard science. It deals in parables, metaphor, and big moral questions. It's been more about the "fiction" than the "science"- the search for truth within the arena of understanding our very humanity.  Every plotline, every obstacle, every character has served to explore the endless puzzles of what it means to be human, and what belief means. The science has been along to provide the structure and the support for the events of the story, not to steer it. In other words, it's just what good sci fi should be.

Take first the cyclical view of history they've shown is time and time again, both anecdotally and through the evidence presented in episodes like "Home" and "The Eye of Jupiter". "All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again." The cycle never ends; it spins its way through the vastness of the cosmos, beginning and ending constantly but never doing either, really. The humans rise and thrive and then, after a few eons, collapse and are destroyed under the weight of all their corruptions or egoism; then, the survivors caravan into the heavens towards a 'promised land', enduring all manner of trial and suffering in the process of purifying their people and cleansing their souls, eventually reuniting them with lost kin and beginning life anew. Earth, Kobol, Colonies, Kobol, Earth- "life here began out there."  It's a story the shades of which are found over and over again in our own history, from the Old Testament to The Illiad to Independence Day.  It defies a scientific, rational view of the universe, because such a cycle would require the existence of a metaphysical intelligence and power- a divine watchmaker, tuning setting the orbits of the cogs of the cosmos.

Also, what does it truly mean (if anything), to be Cylon? If you build a robot basically on the cellular level that is both intelligent and creative, at what point does it stop being a simple automaton? Once a being is created with intelligence, metabolism and the potential for reproduction (even if it is under very specific circumstances, as with the humanoid Cylons), that organism is, for all scientific intents and purposes, alive. After all, what is a human being but an organic machine? The answer we've been directed towards by both the show and common belief is that we have a spark- a spirit, a soul, whatever- that makes us more than just organisms that consume, reproduce and expel waste. We have a ghost in our machines. The way the show has portrayed the Cylons, I think we're meant to question our very definition of "alive" versus "artificial". Remember the very first line of spoken dialogue in the Miniseries? A question, from Cylon to human- "Are you alive?" Perhaps "Cylon" doesn't necessarily mean "robot" so much as it does mean "not human."

In that sense, the newly revealed Four could be "Cylons" but not the evil, genocidal race that has pursued the Fleet throughout the stars. Perhaps they are of an older, more superior version of humanity or Cylon or both (re: Cybrid)- remnants of one of the previous cycles of their history. OR they could be something entirely different. In other words, I don't expect them to be attempting suicide or planting bombs everywhere. I think that they'll more likely use their free will (as Tigh demonstrated) and continue being who they are- but better. Athena has chosen to defy her heritage time and time again in the defense of her human family- on both the micro (Helo, Hera) and the macro scale. Why is it so hard to believe that these newly revealed yet clearly separate Cylons are any different? That they, in being fundamentally different from the other seven, could be much more human than some humans? They know what being human means, what love is, and they know what it means to be part of a family. They'll fight for it.

And Starbuck? Taking a not too enormous intuitive leap and supposing that the divine does interact with the mortal within the BSG universe, could it be possible that Kara, in shedding all her guilt over her mother and Lee, finally lay down all the mortal worries and tangles that keep our souls weighted down, and transcended to another level of existence, a la Jonathan Livingston Seagull?  Death is such a cheap word- she died, but she didn't die; she became something greater than either human or Cylon. I believe that that really was her at the end of Crossroads- but at the same time, it wasn't her. In the words of a very intelligent friend of mine who writes BSG recaps on Televisionwithoutpity.com, "God has to wear masks because you're not prepared for a faceful of infinity, but that's not the secret. The secret is: how many masks." It was her distilled to her soul's truest expression, free of all the learned habits and addictions that any human picks up over the course of a mortal life (drinking, sleeping around, disrespect for authority, emotional isolation). She's totally freed, in a Zen sense, and what form she will take next season, be it a Baltar Six-esque angel on Lee's shoulder or a physical being, I cannot guess.

I'm terrified and thrilled to see where this is going. It's going to be the worst thing ever filmed, or the deepest rabbit hole ever dug. Don't get hung up on the details of Heavy Raider abductions, a resurrection ship full of Tighs, or 1960's Earth transmissions- we're don't have to act like Trekkies. Just enjoy the ride, and open your mind to the possibilities. I'm stoked.


Glad to be back, by the way. Time to go play the Demo! :)
The Gods shall lift those who lift each other.


vrakatar.

  • unholy
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
who is a cyon?
« Reply #169 on: April 01, 2007, 08:22:54 AM »
My theory is that the 12 evolved long, long ago, and the whole story is a chronic hystoriysis. Everyone is a cylon or a cylon derivitave, it is all an AI gone horribly wrong.

  i hope i am wrong.
    starbuck is certainly a "harbinger" type charater, but she may or not be the last cylon of the 12. Baltar keeps showing up in the captured 6's visions. that should not be possible. Also, I wonder what the big deal about hera is if "litle nicky" is also a cylon/human hybrid.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2007, 08:30:13 AM by vrakatar. »
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

karajorma

  • He is watching YOU
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5268
    • View Profile
BSG 320 - Crossroads, Part II (SPOILERS)
« Reply #170 on: April 01, 2007, 08:31:44 AM »
I've actually expressed a similar possibility before. :)

vrakatar.

  • unholy
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
BSG 320 - Crossroads, Part II (SPOILERS)
« Reply #171 on: April 01, 2007, 08:37:15 AM »
the newly revealed Four could be "Cylons" but not the evil, genocidal race that has pursued the Fleet throughout the stars. Perhaps they are of an older, more superior version of humanity or Cylon or both (re: Cybrid)

   chronic historisous. AI time loop. Self-fufilling prophecy? Spawn of old earth?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Paramedic

  • Commander BSG 911
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 23
    • View Profile
A thought reguarding the 5 Cylon's
« Reply #172 on: April 03, 2007, 07:16:40 PM »
RDM confirmed in an interview they have hinted numerous times to the fifth cylon without telling us. Notice how when tigh realizes about his fate as one of the four that he mentions his late wife. All of you think back to season 1 where they test ellen and baltar refuses to tell anyone how the test came back? wouldnt that really frack with his head even more if the fifth cylon was Ellen Tigh? Definately Plausible.

More importantly she appeared in the fleet just as mysteriously as the four were revealed.

karajorma

  • He is watching YOU
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5268
    • View Profile
BSG 320 - Crossroads, Part II (SPOILERS)
« Reply #173 on: April 03, 2007, 08:10:35 PM »
I've been having thoughts along those lines too. Notice that the final 5 are all drawn to other Cylons except for Tigh.

Volw

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
BSG 320 - Crossroads, Part II (SPOILERS)
« Reply #174 on: April 03, 2007, 08:31:37 PM »
If his wife was a Cylon, why wouldn't Baltar detect that Tigh is a toaster as well?

Werthead

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 258
    • View Profile
BSG 320 - Crossroads, Part II (SPOILERS)
« Reply #175 on: April 03, 2007, 11:34:28 PM »
Whilst the podcast remains missing in action, they have put up a Q&A with RDM attending a viewing party for the episode. He reveals some pretty startling things, including:

[spoiler]Adama, Lee and Roslin are not Cylons. It was felt that 'Cylonising' Adama and Roslin would rob something fundamental from the show, and Adama not being a Cylon kind of rules out Lee as well. RDM also confirms that the Final Five are totally different to the other Cylons, and that's the main theme of the start of Season 4. RDM also strongly hints that the Colonials are actually speaking proper English and that this is another part of the Cycle of Time (along with the suits and ties and phrases from Shakespear that crop up occasionally), along with the use of the Watchtower song.[/spoiler]

He also reveals that Tyrol was a natural choice to be a Cylon, and something they half-had in mind since the events in the Season 2 finale. Tory was a character we didn't know much about but had been in the show long enough to make it interesting. According to RDM, Tigh is the most human character in the show, so to make him a Cylon was tremendously perverse, and it fitted in with the feel of BSG to do that. Apparently, although they didn't know that these particular four characters would be Cylons, they have known that four central characters would turn out to be Cylons  for some time and thus beared this mind when writing the series.

RDM chose 'All Along the Watchtower' simply because he loves the song, and when he worked on Roswell he wanted to do a whole episode about it but didn't get the chance. The original draft of the episode started with Tigh at Woodstock listening to the song () but RDM dropped that idea as it was far too surreal.

The final shot of Earth was originally going to show Africa, upside down. Then RDM remembered that the audience wouldn't get that, so they changed it, reluctantly, to North America.

Jesus, "All of this has happened before and all this will happen again," is a steal from the opening of the Disney version of Peter Pan.

Michael 'MF' Hogan proved he is Tigh: when told his character was going to be a Cylon his reaction was simply, "Really? Interesting."  Aaron Douglas had more of a problem with it, however, as he feared it may interfere with his motivation if Tyrol stopped being the common man of the show and became some kind of arch villain.

Apparently Eddie Olmos and Mary McDonnell, among others, got really upset and cried when they read about Starbuck's death, as only the producers and Katee Sackhoff knew what was going on. RDM had to ring the actors up and tell them what was really happening as apparently it was causing problems on-set. Apparently the reaction he got was, erm, not pleasent to start off with, until Eddie realised they could pull off a monster practical joke on Katee (who didn't know they'd been told) at her 'farewell' party :D

Oh this is interesting:

[spoiler]When the Galactica gets to Earth that's the end of the story. However, it's not a case of us seeing Galactica get into Earth orbit and that's it, it'll be a case of there possibly being several episodes revolving around Earth and what they find there and then it ends. RDM confirms that he wants to go to Season 5 but  production realities may not enable them to do that[/spoiler]
Visit The Wertzone for all your SF&F Needs

Tikey

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 308
    • View Profile
BSG 320 - Crossroads, Part II (SPOILERS)
« Reply #176 on: April 03, 2007, 11:38:47 PM »
Woha, that was interesting, I couldn't avoid reading the spoilers. Nine months is too much time :(

Fireball

  • Raider bait
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
BSG 320 - Crossroads, Part II (SPOILERS)
« Reply #177 on: April 04, 2007, 12:12:03 AM »
It's going to be tough to wait a year for all this to be resolved.
A toaster on yer six is better than no toaster at all.

WayneA

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
BSG 320 - Crossroads, Part II (SPOILERS)
« Reply #178 on: April 04, 2007, 05:42:58 AM »
She was talking to Lee without the normal "Yavin IV" comm distortion, like she was talking to Lee, not through the wireless...
__________________

"Bull Riders" 781st Bomb Sqd., 465th Bomb Group (H), 15th Battlestar Group
"MK-VIIEs it might hurt but it will go in!"

actually you do hear her speak with com static. when the cam is on lee you hear it. When it is on her you hear her speak normally. Also to another post there is only four basestars at the zoom out. My vote is she is human and so are the other four.

KypFisto

  • Callsign: Gulo
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 264
    • View Profile
BSG 320 - Crossroads, Part II (SPOILERS)
« Reply #179 on: April 04, 2007, 06:15:04 AM »
There is the "Yavin IV" wireless noise whenever the camera isn't on her. When the camera is on her it is as if the audio is coming from her Viper, not Lee's radio as it is in the other shots.