Author Topic: IS IT ME or is NVIDIA based cards infinitaly flawed?!  (Read 3137 times)

Freelancer

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IS IT ME or is NVIDIA based cards infinitaly flawed?!
« on: February 03, 2007, 12:46:29 AM »
why is it that 2 weeks ago i buy the geforce 7600 gs 512 card, and it runs everything great but video. exchanged it, popped a new one, same issue. returned it, and went and joined a gym. did some research, and discovered the BFG geforce 7800 GSOC AGP. why is it, that.... ITS HAVING THE SAME GOD DAMNED PROBLEMS?!

it seems the more higher end i get the more problems i gain, what the hell?!

i am like 2 seconds away from throwin this thing out the window and going back to ATI........... grrrrrrrrr not to mention i had to shave down 4 memory stick release buttons just to get this bitch to fit.................grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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busithoth

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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2007, 12:58:11 AM »
my Geforce2MX card still works, but since then I've used ATI...

sounds more driver-related...

(and here I thought you were going to say FSOpen doesn't run well on Nvidia cards...)

Scotchy

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IS IT ME or is NVIDIA based cards infinitaly flawed?!
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2007, 01:30:40 AM »
Radeon x1600 has that problem too. Consider that it may be your system. I purchased an x1600 before i bought this 7600. Both of them have the same flaws.

Two cards from different manufacturers with more or less identical shortfalls? I think not. I think the rest of my setup is to blame.

EDIT: Wait. I can play video. Sorry. It's OpenGL that doesn't work. All my OpenGL apps crash instantly. I've tried to find a fix for the problem but haven't had any success. The Radeon card I had previously had the same problem. I've totally reformatted since the Radeon was installed, and since I first installed the 7600. Still the problem persists. Newest AGP drivers, GPU drivers, DX9c (December)... I even downloaded a new nvoglnt.dll hoping that would fix it.

Nope.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2007, 01:44:56 AM by Scotchy »


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« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2007, 01:37:18 AM »
maybe but all i know is for example i cannot change video rendering settings in WMP. like it stays locked on software. not allowing me to choose hardware. i dunno, anyway im due for a reformating so maybe it will work then.
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takashi

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« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2007, 02:34:41 AM »
your problem may be windows vista, the op-sys of evil. it was already complained about. the soluton is to run it under XP.

Herra Tohtori

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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2007, 02:44:25 AM »
If you want to define for sure if the problem is on Windows installation, you could try out some small Linux distro. You don't need to go through the excessive conffing the Linux inevitably brings to you before you can use it if you want to only test something as simple as GPU hardware acceleration in video playback mode - and enabling NVidia GPU hardware acceleration is relatively painless and can be done usually in two lines of commands and a restart of X server.

Then just open some open source video format. If it works, the problem is software-specific to your Windows installation. If the staggering and other problems persist - in which case you'll unlikely see any video at all - then it's a hardware issue.

In any case I'm inclined to problem being somewhere else than your GPU's. Same problem with two different GPU chipsets from different manufacturers? I don't think that goes past reasonable doubt. There's gotta be a bit or a whole value off in your registry or some mundane setting is wrong in someplace you will never look if you don't know where it is and what it does.


That said, I would actually return the 7800 also if they take it, perhaps (just perhaps) buy a cheapo ATi if things work out with them better, then wait for perhaps couple months, half a year and then get a new rig with PCI-e motherboard. Possibly even wait until DX10 cards get debugged.


I'm curious. What clock frequencies does your 7800 use? I'm asking because it seems I got extremely lucky with my card. I bought a PCI-E XFX GeForce 7600 GT XXX-edition (presumably great for pr0n viewing I guess) which has 256 MB of DDR3 memory... Now, the product code is PV-T73G-UGD3, which claims that it has 1600 MHz memory clock and 590 MHz core clock... but my card so happens to have 650 MHz core speed and 800 MHz memory speed (800 MHz x 2 = 1600 MHz so I guess there's some sort of two-fold multiplier somewhere...). And that's out-of-box speeds - and I guess it's just that this card is a prime individual or something, because I don't think 10 % core speed variations are all that common in GPU's of same brand, eh?:biggrin1: :yes: I suppose that overclocking might bring the speeds even higher, but I really don't have the need to do so.

So... how much faster raw clocks does the 7800 series have? And what kind of speeds does your particular individual clock? I'm just interested to know whether my GPU's core speed is a fluke of good luck or a common phenomenon in GPU industry...

EDIT: Is it even possible that they've slipped a Fatality 7600 GT into 7600 GT XXX package?! Because I just checked and the Fatality 7600 GT has exactly 650 MHz core speeds...:nervous:

EDIT2: It seems that by specs the clock speeds for 7800 series are actually lower than for 7600 series, so I guess the performance boost is gained by other means, meaning better chipset having more and faster features.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2007, 03:57:25 AM by Herra Tohtori »


Freelancer

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« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2007, 04:03:13 PM »
Quote from: takashi;56042
your problem may be windows vista, the op-sys of evil. it was already complained about. the soluton is to run it under XP.


who said i was on vista?
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YourKhan

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IS IT ME or is NVIDIA based cards infinitaly flawed?!
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2007, 02:17:55 AM »
i have the exact same card under XP, no problems at all, maybe u need a new codec if its a video problem

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« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2007, 02:37:54 AM »
ive downloaded alot of codecs, no solution. im thinkin a fresh install may do the trick im just backing things up for now. but i refuse to return another card, the last one was perfect cause it was 512ram, ahh but the one i have now is 256bit and way supirior ;)
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YourKhan

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« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2007, 02:43:46 AM »
also, try to get the latest nforce 4 driver.  it is important that you install nforce 4, not 3 or 1/2.  This may cause problems. Also, check that you have the latest drivers  from nvidia.com, often people have problems with old drivers.  if you have the nvidia control panel installed, remove it and leave only the driver.  just to be sure, double check motherboard compatability as well and make sure you have the latest drivers for your motherboard's chipset.

Freelancer

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« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2007, 04:13:08 AM »
ok my stats:

ASUS P4R800-V DELUXE RADEON IGP (thats an ATI integrated graphics board lol)
2.5GHZ Celeron (its still SPINNIN! W00T!)
512 DDR2 Ram
120GB HD
Creative Live 5.1 Soundcard
480watt Black Steel PSU
7800GS AGP OC edition 256megs....
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OutofStep351

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« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2007, 06:50:05 AM »
I've never had an ATI card that lasted more than 6 months.

Conversely, i've never met an Nvidia card I didn't like.
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Rezzy

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« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2007, 11:56:24 AM »
ATI and NVidia cards last for a long time with me, my MX 440 lasted for years and if I decided to put it back in I bet it would still work :P

Only problem I have with Gfx cards is the fact that I order them online so I don't have the fogiest of clues if it's heatsink or fan and I usually get the heatsink.  Every good IT Technician will tell you why a heatsink on a GFX card is so annoying and absolutely wrong;

1. No matter how good your case's air flow is the heatsink can't disapate the heat.
2. Sometimes the heatsink is HUGE and causes the case's air flow to degrade.
3. HUGE heatsink gets in the way of PCI slots sometimes.
4. They have a tendancy to cause monitor flickering or crashes due to over heating.
5. You have to spend a bit more money just to go and buy a case fan to solve the problem.

I hate heatsinks, main reason I use water cooling on my CPU :biggrin1:

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« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2007, 04:04:43 AM »
Well, at anyrate its far from a heat problem etc. the NVIDIA CARD i believe isnt flawed, but its either a configuration in my system, or something I have to do in order to correct the issue possibly on the MB.

rezzy, watercooling is too expensive and cumbersome. fans only do so much but its enough for the rig I have, cause it really doesnt generate alot of heat, its normally low. even running FEAR or HL2. the cards own lil loud fan does a good job. I stressed my system 48 hrs straight now, left it on, running HL2 on Lost coast for 12 hrs using a benchmark. all good. maxed out and all. personally my card looks better than the 7600 i had, but for christ sakes id give anything to have that 512 megs back. all games ive demoed on it only stuttered once, 7800 a lil bit more but still does the trick...
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Herra Tohtori

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« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2007, 11:19:08 AM »
Air cooling is good solution when you get it to work. I've done some relatively small changes to my PC's ventilation and it actually helped.

Main investments were:

-three new fans (Nexus 92 mm, Lieberman 80 mm and Lieberman 120 mm) to replace 85 mm case exhaust fan and 65 mm CPU fan respectively, and the largest to increase intake air to cool the HD section.

-a bottle of Sprite(tm)

-Duct tape:naughty:

Obviously, the only one of the fans that actually fit into my computer in stock condition was the rear panel exhaust fan. I had to drill four new holes to CPU fan to get it attached to the heat sink, but it fit rather fine in the end. The problem with the biggest fan was mainly that there was no actual place for a fan there, and the power button got in the way a bit. So in the end the fan is only attached from one side...:nervous:

The Sprite bottle was empty at this phase, so I took it, cut the bottom away and measured about 6-7 cm long tube out of the remaining bottle. Then I duct taped it on top of the CPU fan from the sides. Then I put some more duct tape onto other end of the bottle so that when the side panel is attached properly to the Sprite-duct. Because there happened to be a grille in the side panel, the CPU fan now works effectively as an intake fan, drawing room temperature air to the heatsink. This had actually quite dramatic effect to CPU temperatures.

The ambient temperature is usually somewhere in the low thirties Celcius - from 31 to 34 I'd say from SpeedFan logs. Previously, the processor idled a few degrees higher than the ambient temperature. Now, with 60% CPU fan speed, it idles about at 31 regardless of what the ambient temperature inside the case is. Under load it can get to mid-40's but if I increase the CPU and exhaust fan speeds to 100%, it gets to about 42 or so. And the computer's noisiest components are the HD's.

Obviously, the Nexus PSU also helps keep the noise and temperature down with its 120mm exhaust fan. And the Zalman VF-900 Cu is providing some awesome cooling power to the GPU. It idles at 41 with silent mode and gets to about 45 when I play F.E.A.R Extraction Point demo for about half an hour... And if I max the fan speed it doesn't even get higher than 43 or so.:lol:  So I keep the GPU fan at silent mode, since it seems to offer more than adequate cooling power.:yes: With stock cooling, the idle temperatures were at the worse side of mid-40's and load speeds well past 50 deg Celcius.

I agree that passive cooling usually doesn't work in "factory computers" that have small cases stuffed full of partially un-necessary stuff (like in my case, wireless network card and a modem, which I removed from their PCI slots in order to increase the airflow to GPU), and cables usually hanging loose inside the computer without being fixed into case edges... all of which causes the airflow to be un-ideal at best, which can cause hot spots in the PC - and if there's no airflow around passively cooled GPU, it naturally gets too hot. All passive cooling is actually active cooling if the component is inside an enclosed space. It's just disguised to be passive. PC's other fans just do the job for it. Or if they don't, the cooling doesn't work.