Author Topic: Valkyrie pics (warning spoilers for HERO)  (Read 19860 times)

Colonel-Colt

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« Reply #90 on: November 28, 2006, 02:43:40 AM »
Quote from: Ender;49411
who says glactica cant produce fighters, we know the chief threw the blackbird together in a matter of days, the only reason it was mentioned was because pegasus was just starting or perhaps pegasus could mass produce them. i tihnk galactica can produce vipers or other ships although htey may be of less quality


The blackbird was special, because it was built lol. The galactica has no ship building capabilities, thats why they built the blackbird entirely by hand, the Pegasus would have modern production facilities, IE could make them by machines, make them faster, make them better, and could use parts easier. Sure galactica could make more fighters, but thats like saying every single ship in all twelve colonies could make a viper, if they got enough people and supplies to do it.

Josh_88

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« Reply #91 on: November 28, 2006, 03:40:52 AM »
right. like colt said, the galactica could make new vipers... by hand.. the reason the pegasus was said to be able to make them was because it had the facilities with machines and assembly lines like a modern day car company, or plane company like boeing. where as galactica being older doesnt have the facilities. the foundry ship can make the parts, and they probably could make vipers, if they dont already have the ability they could likely make their own machines to make some.
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lazarus3d

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« Reply #92 on: November 28, 2006, 08:19:31 AM »
Well a foundry ship just necessitates the ability to refine metals, not put them into production. It's also worth pointing out that it isnt just fighters the manufacturing facilities were supposed to make, it was probably also FTL parts, etc. What happens when THOSE start breaking and you have to move some people off of ships and cram them into others?

I would like to say that this is an interesting comment on how the Colonials were prepared to fight a conceivable war, one that dictated their ship design. First, Galactica is able to recycle its water for up to a couple years without repleneshment. That's the beginning of this trend. Then you fast forward to Pegasus, which is able to manufacture new fighters/ammo/etc.  They were prepared to fight a war that was away from home and support facitlies.
This brings me back to the whole "red-line" thing: how can it be unexplored space? If you're prepared to fight that kind of war you had damned well know the outlying territory surrounding your home, otherwise you won't be able to effectively implement your fighting-away-from-home strategy, which would make the enemy find you (who theoretically has a better idea of the lay of the system than he does). Also, this means that there might have been ships out beyond Colonial territory, scouting and whatnot, and they might have been able to survive the strike on Colonial assets. And, as for the "no jump in thirty years" comment from Tigh in the miniseries, it's pretty obvious that is bullshit: how did Valkyrie get to the border without jumping? That might be a misinterpretation on my part.
Those are just a couple things I've had running around in my head.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2006, 08:24:30 AM by lazarus3d »
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« Reply #93 on: November 28, 2006, 08:39:07 AM »
Colonial ships must have done jumps prior to the miniseries. Cally mentions that she doesn't "like this part". Can someone find the quote where it says that jumps haven't been done before?

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« Reply #94 on: November 28, 2006, 09:29:34 AM »
I think Gaeta said that he'd not plotted a jump that far before when Adama asked him to plot a jump from their position near Caprica to Ragnar Anchorage, and Adama replied "nobody has". From this I imagine jumps where routinely done, but not to the distances they likely do now. I also remember Tigh was quite worried as to the prospect of them jumping to Ragnar, but more due to the fact Galactica's FTL drive hadn't been used in over 20 years, he was probably worried it would malfunction due to lack of usage/cobwebs in the system :lol:

Colonel-Colt

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« Reply #95 on: November 28, 2006, 05:29:08 PM »
Quote from: Dusty;49454
I think Gaeta said that he'd not plotted a jump that far before when Adama asked him to plot a jump from their position near Caprica to Ragnar Anchorage, and Adama replied "nobody has". From this I imagine jumps where routinely done, but not to the distances they likely do now. I also remember Tigh was quite worried as to the prospect of them jumping to Ragnar, but more due to the fact Galactica's FTL drive hadn't been used in over 20 years, he was probably worried it would malfunction due to lack of usage/cobwebs in the system :lol:


What Dusty said, it was obvious in the Mini that they used FTL alot, but when I mentioned Tighs comment, I mean he was directing it towards galactica, since she hasnt seen any action or anything she hasnt had the need to jump in over thirty years, not that noone has jumped in those years, just galactica hasnt.

Josh_88

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« Reply #96 on: November 29, 2006, 01:06:13 AM »
all are right, the having not made a jump comment was referring to galactica's jump drives having not been used, and because gaeta says he hasnt made a jump that far and adama's response, it shows that the other ships do make jumps... just not as long as the one they were about to do, the longer the jump, the more complicated the process becomes. the proof that the colonies do make jumps is the fact that the rest of the fleet is much newer the galactica, and colonial one, and the other "passenger jet" type transport ships were created specifically to jump between planets in the colonies. also backing that up would be cally's comment that she doesnt like this part.... i think she's less then 30 years old, so that means she's been on another ship at some time, that has made jumps.
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lazarus3d

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« Reply #97 on: November 29, 2006, 05:42:21 PM »
Quote from: Josh_88;49557
all are right, the having not made a jump comment was referring to galactica's jump drives having not been used, and because gaeta says he hasnt made a jump that far and adama's response, it shows that the other ships do make jumps... just not as long as the one they were about to do, the longer the jump, the more complicated the process becomes. the proof that the colonies do make jumps is the fact that the rest of the fleet is much newer the galactica, and colonial one, and the other "passenger jet" type transport ships were created specifically to jump between planets in the colonies. also backing that up would be cally's comment that she doesnt like this part.... i think she's less then 30 years old, so that means she's been on another ship at some time, that has made jumps.


If Galactica was in active service prior to her decommissioning ceremony, and if the Colonials were prepared to fight a war that would involve them jumping battlegroups into unpopulated systems, and they presumably undertook wargame training exercises, how could Galactica NOT have made any jumps in thirty years?

Pure speculation (we're all about that here I guess), but maybe that comment was referring to the length of the single jump.  Possibly Colonials are used to making a series of shorter jumps which might not be as hard for whatever reason as one big jump.

But then, who knows. It probably was just some comment thrown in there before RDM figured out how he was going to lay out the rest of the story in the series.
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« Reply #98 on: November 29, 2006, 06:01:55 PM »
The Colonials seemed to be in only one system, maybe a few, though. It's quite possible Galactica has been serving in a semi-static defensive role for Caprica all that time, with occasional slowboating trips around.

And not using the jumpdrives would have developed a kind of inertia after maybe a year or so.
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Colonel-Colt

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« Reply #99 on: November 29, 2006, 06:04:55 PM »
Actually, just because she was in active service doesnt mean she would have jumped, many ships relied on sublights only, and when all she's really doing is guarding, because she wouldnt be doing war training (If they started a war ships like Galactica woulda been left behind, to guard the colonies and because they'd slow everyone else down) so she coulda just flew around slowly.

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« Reply #100 on: November 29, 2006, 06:28:38 PM »
Quote from: Colonel-Colt;49618
Actually, just because she was in active service doesnt mean she would have jumped, many ships relied on sublights only, and when all she's really doing is guarding, because she wouldnt be doing war training (If they started a war ships like Galactica woulda been left behind, to guard the colonies and because they'd slow everyone else down) so she coulda just flew around slowly.


Yeah, but all the warships we've seen, with the exception of vipers, have jump drives.  And regardless of whether or not ships like Galactica would have been left behind, we've seen enough of Adama's strategy to assume that they would have have to be able to jump, and well versed in the process as a maneuvering necessity. You think just because a ship is left behind on defense means that it wouldn't train to go out and meet the enemy wherever they showed up, or to engage the enemy before he could close with military or civilian assets? It's absolutely rediculous to assume that any ship that was on active duty would never participate in jump training. It's akin to having a sword and not sharpening it.
Besides, if ships like Galactica were meant to serve as a force like you had described, and not to jump, why wouldn't their jump engines have been stripped out to serve as spares for other older ships on other duties?
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lazarus3d

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« Reply #101 on: November 29, 2006, 06:31:25 PM »
Quote from: ngtm1r;49617
The Colonials seemed to be in only one system, maybe a few, though. It's quite possible Galactica has been serving in a semi-static defensive role for Caprica all that time, with occasional slowboating trips around.

And not using the jumpdrives would have developed a kind of inertia after maybe a year or so.


You might be right about inertia, but I maintain that jump training is part of battle training, which is a part of battle readiness. And, with Adama refusing to allow computers to be networked aboard a ship under his command as a part of being battle ready, I think that it is also plausible to believe that he would undertake jumps as a training exercise in order to maintain that particular aspect of battle readiness.
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Colonel-Colt

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« Reply #102 on: November 29, 2006, 09:00:17 PM »
Quote from: lazarus3d;49623
You might be right about inertia, but I maintain that jump training is part of battle training, which is a part of battle readiness. And, with Adama refusing to allow computers to be networked aboard a ship under his command as a part of being battle ready, I think that it is also plausible to believe that he would undertake jumps as a training exercise in order to maintain that particular aspect of battle readiness.


Unless the admiralty ordered the Galactica to not jump, and to just sit there. It was said in the Mini that she hadnt jumped for over 30 years, so regardless of why, that fact remains.

Josh_88

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« Reply #103 on: November 30, 2006, 01:06:22 AM »
well they said that, after the valk incident, they moved adama to galactica as a sort of punishment, the old soldier, put on the old ship, to just sit around and eventually fade away, along with the ship when it finally got decommissioned. it seems to me that they were planning on galactica being a museum for a long time, and really just keeping it around because it was more of a thing to look at, a name to revere as the first in a line of greatness.... and while the name and idea was sort of edified they relegated the ship to menial tasks because it was so old, and not nearly as impressive or powerful as the other 100+ battlestars they had. following those lines why would they have/allow him to make jumps and wear out their jump drives, so they have to waste time and resources on a ship that they had mentally decommissioned already. just my idea. no reason at all that id be right, its just what i think
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The Trivial Psychic

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« Reply #104 on: December 01, 2006, 01:42:24 AM »
Regarding the "Red Line", I'm guessing that its a perimeter within which there is more consistent and updated data on navigation, which makes jumps within it safer than beyond it.  However, the book "The Cylon's Secret" states that there were outposts beyond this red line, prior to the war.  These consisted mostly of mining stations and scientific research facilities... nothing as major as a colony or military outpost.  When the war came, many of these were eliminated by the Cylons, being outside the protective envelope that newly-commissioned Colonial Navy could cover.  After the war, the economic and technological loss kept the colonies from expanding to their previous sphere of influence, though there were pirates and scavengers that would raid the remains of these former facilities for anything of value, and the Colonial Navy also had the Galactica on patrol there checking out for any survivors.  They must be some distance out, since the return trip was said to last 3 weeks, even with FTL.

Its also worth saying, that the book in question is non-canon, and in fact is contradicted by the events of "Hero".  The book has Adama being given command of the Galactica 20 years after the end of the war, rather than somewhat more recently given Adama's apparent age during the "Hero" flashback.
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