Author Topic: Is a Squadron in a Wing or is a Wing in a Squadron?  (Read 6331 times)

Admiral Ace

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Is a Squadron in a Wing or is a Wing in a Squadron?
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2006, 05:33:17 PM »
Ok, I'm gonna give you Adama's private cellphone, then you'll be able to ask him ;) But...mind the telephone rate :lol:
Some pilots are to be Aces, some others will only bear the name.

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Dodger

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Is a Squadron in a Wing or is a Wing in a Squadron?
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2006, 01:23:31 PM »
http://unsd.macrossroleplay.org/squads.php

this brings new wind to the old wing/squad/flight discussion!
i know these are macross ranks but who cares!

has bill answered the call yet??


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Imperator

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Is a Squadron in a Wing or is a Wing in a Squadron?
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2006, 01:35:53 PM »
Quote from: nimrod77;47376
Here's an example how it works...
 
2 flights = 1 Squadron
2 Squadrons = 1 Wing
2 Wings = 1 Group
2 Groups = 1 Formation.
 
HTH,
Nimrod

(The 58th Air Wing has 3 flights per squadron and 4 squadrons and is part of the 54th Air group)
 
3 flights = 1 squadron      
2-4 squadrons = 1 Air Wing
2 Air Wings = 1 Air Group    
2 Air Groups = 1 Battlestar Group  
 
Quote from: Nahema;47378
From playing I was under the impression a Squadron consisted out of multiple wings Alpha, Beta, Gamma etc all belonging to the same squadron, at leats that's the impression FS gave me.
That's not the only thing FS has messed up, in fs the biggest capship class is destroyer class and cruisers are below that.
But in real navies I believe cruiser class vessels are considerably larger then destroyers. I could be wrong ofc.

You're not wrong and Corvettes are supposed to be the smallest class of warship yet they're bigger than cruisers in FS2 as well! :squeeze:
"Reality is Cylon technology obviously outstrips our own."
 


Squirrel

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Is a Squadron in a Wing or is a Wing in a Squadron?
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2006, 01:36:45 PM »
My Proposal:

4 fighter = 1 Squadron
(max.) 8 Squadron = 1 Wing

Simple system I think.

Imperator

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Is a Squadron in a Wing or is a Wing in a Squadron?
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2006, 01:38:22 PM »
The 58th has 3 flights per squadron and (guessing a bit) 2 figters per flight so about 4-6 fighters, yeh.
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Coota0

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Is a Squadron in a Wing or is a Wing in a Squadron?
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2006, 05:22:28 PM »
USN-

Section= 2 aircraft (section lead and his wingman, lead is usually an O-2 or O-3)
Flight= 4 aircraft (2 sections, lead is usually an O-3 or O-4)
Squadron=anywhere from 4-14 aircraft depending on type, for fighters usually 12-14 (Commanded by an O-5)
Wing/Air Group= all the squadrons assigned to a specific carrier, no matter what the aircraft type (Commanded by the Commander Air Group (CAG) an O-6)
The Navy has an adminstartive grouping for all the aircraft on the East or West coast of the U.S. including those assigned to the Wings commanded by an O-7 or O-8, Navy land based aircraft have a slightly different oragnization.

USMC-
Section= 2 aircraft (section lead and his wingman, lead is usually an O-2 or O-3)
Flight= 4 aircraft (2 sections, Usually lead by an O-3 or O-4)
Squadron=anywhere from 4-14 aircraft depending on type, for fighters usually 12-14. (Commanded by an O-5)
Marine Air Group-usually three squadrons of all the same type of aircraft, sometimes all the aircraft at a base (Commanded by an O-6)
Marine Air Wing= squadrons and groups spread over a geographic area (i.e. east coast or west coast) mostly for adminstrative purposes (Commanded by an O-7 or O-8)

Air Combat Element (or ACE)= All of the aircraft assigned to a MEU(SOC) onboard the LHA or LHD (kinda like little carriers, but without the cats or arrestor cables, but carry a bunch of Marines) The ACE is commanded by an O-5
p.s. MEU(SOC) Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable)- group of three to four Navy ships that transport Marines and acts as a forward deployed landing force

It gets really confusing when you start assigning Marine Squadrons to Navy air wings for a cruise.

USAF-
Element-2 aircraft (Lead and Wingman, usually lead by an O-3, but sometimes an O-2)
Flight- 2 elements (usually lead by an O-4, but sometimes an O-3)
Squadron- 12-16 aircraft (depends on the type, commanded by an O-6)
Group- usually all the aircraft of either a specific type or all the aircraft under one command at a base (O-6 or sometimes an O-7)
Wing-typically two or more groups (O-7 or O-8 in command)

Wing and Group are used alot for adminstrative purposes because the USAF also has allof their support elements broken into squadrons and groups, these fall within the overall Wing and Group structure with the aircraft. USAF squadrons don't often deploy as wings, but as squadrons with flights or squadrons from support units to make up a group. There are exceptios to this, the USAF has a couple of Composite Wings, that are like mini-airforces that can be forward deployed to trouble spots, they include support units, fighters, attack aircraft and bombers, the Commander is either an O-6 or O-7)

Army-
In the Army it depends on the aircraft type or mission of the unit
CH-47 Chinook Heavy Lift
Flight-2 aircraft (lead and wing, lead is usually a CW-3 or CW-4, sometimes an experienced O-2 or O-3)
Section- 4 aircraft (Commanded by an O-1 or O-2, with 6 or 7 Warrant Officers)
Platoon- 8 aircraft (Commanded by an O-3)
There is also an HQ/support element as part of the Company
Company-16 aircraft (commanded by an O-3 or O-4)

UH-60Blackhawk Genreal Support
Flight- 2 aircraft (lead and wing, lead is usually a CW-3 or CW-4, sometimes an experienced O-2 or O-3)
Platoon- 4 aircraft (commanded by an O-1 or O-2, with 7 Warrant Officers)
Company- 8 aircraft (Commanded by an O-3)
No HQ element, but crewchiefs for each aircraft are assigned to the Company other support comes from outside the Company

OH-58D Air Cav Light Attack/ Scout Troop
Flight- 2 aircraft (lead and wing, lead is usually a CW-3 or CW-4, sometimes an experienced O-2 or O-3)
Platoon- 4 aircraft (commanded by an O-1 or O-2, with 7 Warrant Officers)
Troop- 8 aircraft (Commanded by an O-3) No HQ element, but crewchiefs for each aircraft are assigned to the Company other support comes from outside the Company
 

UH-60 Blackhawk Air Cavalry/ Air Assault Company
Flight-2 aircraft (lead and wing,lead is usually a CW-3 or CW-4, sometimes an experienced O-2 or O-3)
Platoon- 5 aircraft (commanded by an O-1 or O-2, with 9 Warrant Officers)
Troop (if Air Cav)/ Company (if Air Assault)- 15 aircraft (Commanded by an O-3) No HQ element, but crewchiefs for each aircraft are assigned to the Company other support comes from outside the Company


AH-64 Apache
Flight-2 aircraft (lead and wing, lead is usually a CW-3 or CW-4, sometimes an experienced O-2 or O-3)
Platoon- 4 aircraft (commanded by an O-1 or O-2, with 7 Warrant Officers)
Company- 8 aircraft (Commanded by a O-3) No HQ element, but crewchiefs for each aircraft are assigned to the Company other support comes from outside the Company

Squadron (if Air Cav)/ Battalion -made up of 2-3 Troops/ Companies (Commanded by a O-5), sometimes but not always deployed together and stationed at the same base.

Brigade- all the air battalions within a major unit (example: all of the aviation units in the 1st Cavalry Division) Commanded by an O-6.

In the Army the organizational chart often has a more senior officer in charge on the ground, but in the air the Warrant Officers often lead the mission because of their experience.

Clear as mud, right? :rolleyes:

I have no idea how our allies make up their aviation units. I don know that the Soviets used and the Chinese use Army designations for their Air Forces, ie. A Regiment is the equivelent to a Group or Wing in our Air Forces.

From what I've seen of BSG it seems that the show uses a modified version of the USN format. The grouping of aircraft are the same, but the Ranks of the officers in command are different.

I didn't write out the ranks becuase I didn't want to further confuse anyone.
Resources for anyone curious- USAF, USN, USMC- Tom Clancy has some excellent nonfiction books on the
Navy Air Wing- http://search.barnesandnoble.com/BookSearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780425166826&itm=1
Marine MEU(SOC)- http://search.barnesandnoble.com/BookSearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780425154540&itm=1
USAF Composite Wing- http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780425193709&itm=1

The Army has an excellent website with their information- http://www.branchorientation.com/aviation/home.html

Army only *,**
WO-1= Warrant Officer Junior Grade (Silver Bar, one black pip)
CWO-2= Chief Warrant Officer 2 (Silver Bar, 2 black pips)
CWO-3= Chief Warrant Officer 3 (Silver Bar, 3 black pips)
CWO-4= Chief Warrant Officer 4 (Silver Bar, 4 black pips)
CWO-5= Chief Warrant Officer 5 (Silver Bar, solid black stripe down the middle)
*Warrant Officers in the grades of CW-2 and above recieve commsisions, WO-1s recieve Warrants from the Secratary of the Army
**Not to be confused with Navy enlisted rating or Chief Petty Officer (E-7- E-9)

Army, USAF, USMC
O-1= 2nd Lieutenant (Gold Bar)
O-2= 1st Lieutenant (Silver Bar)
O-3= Captain (2 Silver Bars)
O-4= Major (Gold Oak Leaf)
O-5= Lieutenant Colonel (Silver Oak Leaf)
O-6= Colonel (Silver Eagele)
0-7= Brigader General (1 Star)
O-8= Major General (2 Star)
O-9= Lieutenant General (3 Star)
O-10= General (4 Star)

Navy
O-1= Ensign (Gold Bar)
O-2= Lieutenant Junior Grade (Silver Bar)
O-3= Lieutenant (2 Silver Bars)
O-4= Lieutenant Commander (Gold Oak Leaf)
O-5= Commander (Silver Oak Leaf)
O-6= Captain (Silver Eagele)
O-7= Rear Admiral Lower Half/ Commadore*
O-8= Rear Admiral Upper Half
O-9= Vice Admiral
O-10= Admiral
*Commadore is used in reference to the O-7 in charge of a surface squadron
« Last Edit: December 03, 2006, 06:06:28 PM by Coota0 »

Imperator

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Is a Squadron in a Wing or is a Wing in a Squadron?
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2006, 07:02:44 PM »
Seems a bit different from the BSG system and the 58th.
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Dodger

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Is a Squadron in a Wing or is a Wing in a Squadron?
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2006, 07:16:13 PM »
do you guys think that a poll would help us to solve squad/ wing/ flight/ beehive or whatever discussion??


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Squirrel

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Is a Squadron in a Wing or is a Wing in a Squadron?
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2006, 08:18:08 AM »
A poll could help but actually there are so many different proposals... :doubtful:

If we can't find a consens, I will set up a system for the cylons (after consultation the cylon-community) on my own.

So, I would like to hear some votes from the devs...

Snagger

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Is a Squadron in a Wing or is a Wing in a Squadron?
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2006, 08:47:28 AM »
Naturally, I'd like the system modelled on the RAF and Commonwealth system, but since the show is based almost entirely on the USN, surely it would stop all arguements if just folllowed the genuine USN system?
something I do understand;)  : http://www.nickslandrover.co.uk

Coota0

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Is a Squadron in a Wing or is a Wing in a Squadron?
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2006, 11:35:00 PM »
Quote from: Imperator;50024
Seems a bit different from the BSG system and the 58th.


How is it different than BSG? I said that the show uses different ranks.

Of course it's different than the 58th, the 58th made theirs up, they even have enlisted pilots.

Following the USN model is probably the way to go. Moore has even said that he has based a bunch of the flight ops stuff on the USN. He has pretty much made the Galactica an aircraft carrier in space. I bet if Moore wasn't curtailed by the rank structure of the original series, Adama would have been a Captin when the show began.

StarSlayer

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Is a Squadron in a Wing or is a Wing in a Squadron?
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2006, 12:59:05 AM »
You can still be a Commander while being a ships captain in the USN.  While you get the "Captain" honorific ur offical rank however, i still commander.
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Coota0

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Is a Squadron in a Wing or is a Wing in a Squadron?
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2006, 02:11:48 AM »
Quote from: StarSlayer;50168
You can still be a Commander while being a ships captain in the USN.  While you get the "Captain" honorific ur offical rank however, i still commander.


Yes you can, on a sub, a frigate or a destroyer (maybe) but not aboard a Carrier.

skippy9146

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Is a Squadron in a Wing or is a Wing in a Squadron?
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2006, 02:46:50 AM »
Damn, I thought this thread was dead, dead, dead!:wtf:
 
How are things done in BSG...? Only Ron Moore knows for sure.
 
I think that he actually went into it some on one of his SciFi blogs - but it's basically a blend of US Navy's actual structure & whatever sounds good.


Squirrel

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Is a Squadron in a Wing or is a Wing in a Squadron?
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2006, 08:04:12 AM »
Well, then I will set up with "The Cylon Base"-Community (hehe, 10 Members actually) an own structure for the Cylons...

Anyone who would like to discuss the structure for the Cylons is warmly welcome on "The Cylon Base"-Forum. :yes:
« Last Edit: December 05, 2006, 01:20:25 PM by Squirrel »