Author Topic: Episode 304 (LOTS OF SPOILERS, BEWARE!)  (Read 31263 times)

Akula

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Episode 304 (LOTS OF SPOILERS, BEWARE!)
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2006, 09:13:31 PM »
Those are some good theories, but I think you're taking to much of an "in-universe" perspective when you're considering the consequences of killing the Pegasus.

Let's start with the title of the Show. Originally the show was called "Battlestar Galactica" because the show was set ON the Battlestar Galactica. It allowed for the creation of characters - such as Boxy - who might not have been otherwise allowed. When this character was revived for the mini-series and Re-imagined series, there was no where for the character to go. It didn't work having a Civilian kid on a military ship when there were 20+ other ships for him to sail on. Killing off the Pegasus re-directs the attention back to the Galactica, which the show is all supposed to be about.

Consider to the difficulties they've had in showing both ships at the same time. Forget about the special effects, look at the plot. When you have two ships in the fleet you have two differant plots developing on each ship. It's almost impossible to keep them interconnected. And the same thing with the characters - BSG is supposed to be first and foremost a Drama, you can't have a Drama when half the characters are on a differant ship half the time.

I would hate to see the Pegasus die, I really would. But from a plot and character stand point, it could be the best thing in the show. All the Pegasus characters would either die (fascinating plot device) or have to shift over to the Galactica, leading to all of them being more prevelant on the show. Either of those to factors only increases the drama and intensity of the show.

From an in-universe stand point, that would also solve some of the current personel problems both ships are suffering from.

I've been looking at the Baltar=Cylon thing a little bit more and there's a couple of very damaging scenes that clearly suggest he's not. Because if they turn around and change that now, they would literally be destroying several key episodes of BSG. The first that comes to mind is Downloaded, and all the ensuing events with Caprica-six. If Baltar is a Cylon, why did she need to go to Caprica and corrupt him? Assuming that she still needed to, why is she - and not he - hailed as a hero for the destruction of the colonies? Everyone says that "She" (Caprica-Six) is responsible for everything they have been able to do - why not Baltar? Why not make him the hero?

Further, his attempts to work with (and sometimes against) the Cylon Council on New Caprica doesn't fit with the behaviour of the other Cylons. There would be no need for him to surrender humanity.

I submit that some Cylons (Boomer) work against the Cylon purposes, but she was already used for her purpose. Not manipulated into it, she did what they wanted her to do, and that was it. Baltar has had to be coaxed and guided every step of the way - it doesn't fit with the Cylon pattern of behavior. If he was truly THAT independent, they'd have boxed him. The only reason Caprica-Six and Sharon weren't boxed was because they killed the other lady. If she was such a stringent supporter of Cylon Unity, she would have pushed for his boxing before she pushed for the boxing of Caprica-Six or Sharon. The last piece of evidence is the line in the latest episode "Caprica, can't you control him?" If the other lady - D'anna Biers - is in charge of boxing models then that comment should have been directed at her, implying that she is in charge of controlling Baltar because he is a Cylon. This would have been a confusing implication in the event of the show that would have provided more discourse in the discussion that Baltar may or may not be a Cylon.

As has already been pointed out in this thread, the creators of BSG are very good about preventing inconsistancies. Changing the way Baltar has operated up until now would only undermine everyone of those scenes listed above. While it's possible (even probable) that they would do that just to confuse everyone watching the show, I don't think it's likely.

Nor do I think it is likely that Baltar is something like a God to the Cylons. The Cylons believe their "God" has a higher power, a spiritual power. They do not ever attribute this to Baltar, but instead imply several times that his will is his own, not for Cylons to understand. The attempts are to create a Christianity like religon for the Cylons, in which they might have figure heads (IE: D'anna Biers as a "prophet" from the Cylon God and Hera as a significant baby) but they don't have a physical entity that IS their God. Otherwise they would just turn around and ask him if killing humanity was a sin - and if they needed to atone for it by helping to "Save" the race.

Additionally, if there was a Cylon leader -why is there a Cylon council using Baltar on New Caprica? Shouldn't the "Great Leader" just come forth and issue directives in his own name, instead of acting mysteriously by giving someone a dream that may or may not be true?

The fact of the matter is that this is not TOS (the original series) this is Battlestar Galactic Re-imagined. Anything can and will happen, and when it does, it will probably not be what you expect. But one thing is for sure - what does happen isn't going to happen based on TOS, it's going to happen based on where the story takes us. That's probably the most fascinating thing about BSG to me - it's not driven by the ratings, or the needs of the company, or the desires of the personal writers. BSG is a true character-driven drama. It has no agenda of it's own, unlike most television series, and THAT I think is why it's so wildly popular.
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Roy Fokker

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Episode 304 (LOTS OF SPOILERS, BEWARE!)
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2006, 10:17:09 PM »
I have watched the preview repeatedly, and I don't think the basestar was rammed at all - first of all, it was already burning, and ramming it wouldn't result in a sudden explosion. I believe that the object we see moving is not another ship, but one of the arms of the upper "star" of the basestar itself... it breaks off as structural integrity fails, and kaboom! It can be a crash between two basestars, though. The dradis screen confirms this - there is no battlestar in the vicinity, just two basestars dangerously close, a raider between them and two vipers nearby.

Akula

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« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2006, 10:29:33 PM »
Yeah Roy - I have to agree. At first I thought for sure it looked like it was getting rammed, but after looking at it again, it just looks like it's blowing up.
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Werthead

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Episode 304 (LOTS OF SPOILERS, BEWARE!)
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2006, 10:36:47 PM »
Surprised to see that apparently no-one else spotted what I did.

Adama says, "Damn you Lee!" Obviously the Pegasus jumps in to help out in the fight, possibly threatening to upset Adama's plan.

Then we see a shot of the entire GalacticaC-in-C shaking as if from a massive impact. We hear Adam yell, "JUMP!" We then see the basestar looking like it's already exploding. However, the larger explosion that rips through the basestar looks like it could also be a jump distortion.

Conclusion: Galactica rams the basestar but jumps out as it does so. The distortion wave from the jump obliterates the basestar.

It seems to be possible to use hyperspace jumping - the ability to instantly materialise an object at any point in space/time - as a weapon. I haven't see that since a Minbari warcruiser opened a jump point right in the middle of a human fleet to destroy it in the Babylon 5 prequel movie. Good tactics, though.

EDIT: Another possibility would be the judicious use of the transponders from the two captured Heavy Raiders to confuse the basestars, causing them to ram one another or fire on the wrong targets etc.
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Ender

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Episode 304 (LOTS OF SPOILERS, BEWARE!)
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2006, 11:51:16 PM »
this is all well and good and i'm happy that peggy might survive but hwo do u explain waht looks like Lee getting into a viper mark 7,

Nothing_But_The_Rain

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« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2006, 12:01:19 AM »
Quote from: Werthead;43373
I haven't see that since a Minbari warcruiser opened a jump point right in the middle of a human fleet to destroy it in the Babylon 5 prequel movie.

...Or since Halo 2, or since Firefly... lol just kiddin'
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skimmons

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Episode 304 (LOTS OF SPOILERS, BEWARE!)
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2006, 01:36:28 AM »
I think you are all missing the point of it.  If the peggy does die that means there will really be no more big space battles unless they find another battlestar.  Before the pegasus arrived the galatica could barely stand toe to toe with a basestar let alone destroy one.


Second is how the hell are they gonna replace the vipers.  If you all remember from eposode "Scar" the pegasus is the ship that can produce vipers.  The galatica will simply run out of ships and then they will die.  

Either way killing the pegasus would be a huge mistake and would limit the plot significantly.  Other than the fact that i love the huge ass space battles and without the peggy they really arn't that possible.

Nothing_But_The_Rain

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« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2006, 02:09:46 AM »
http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/

I don't think it's Galactica and it's definitely not Pegasus. The scale is too far off. It's definitely something colliding, not a nuke blast or one of the Basestar's arms breaking off.
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EchoZero

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Episode 304 (LOTS OF SPOILERS, BEWARE!)
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2006, 03:00:34 AM »
I've taken some screen grabs of the collision and it looking more like Galactica with flight pods retracted hitting the center axis of a base star.
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skimmons

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Episode 304 (LOTS OF SPOILERS, BEWARE!)
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2006, 03:47:22 AM »
It could be a tilium freighter.  remember the eposode where apollo blew up the base with a couple of bombs.  They might have one ram a basestar.

On second thought though the promo pics for torn are up on nbc site and they show the eposode torn with apollo wearing a flight suit for a viper.

ngtm1r

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« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2006, 04:03:08 AM »
Possibly with the shortage of pilots he got back in the cockpit and Dee commanded the Pegasus?

"Commander Dualla."

EDIT: Great, now I've got Balthar's voice stuck in my head saying that the same way he said his "Commander Adama, are you a Cylon?" line in Season One.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2006, 07:09:35 AM by ngtm1r »
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Werthead

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Episode 304 (LOTS OF SPOILERS, BEWARE!)
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2006, 12:16:12 PM »
If they're doing the ramming thing, Galactica is a poor choice due to its lighter armour. Pegasus could probably plough through basestars (not the sturdiest-looking ships around) and survive to tell the tale.

They've released publicity pictures for the next few episodes here. Absolutely no shots on the Pegasus set. They're a couple of Lee, but he appears to be on Galactica. :(

OTOH, Adama looks pretty happy for someone who's just inadvertantly lost the most powerful ship in his fleet and the best chance for mankind to survive. Maybe the producers are toying with us?
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Roy Fokker

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« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2006, 02:28:23 PM »
I have seen those promo images for the next two eps before, but those celebration images don't seem to imply the Pegasus is lost, which would be a HUGE blow to their chanses for survival.

skippy9146

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Episode 304 (LOTS OF SPOILERS, BEWARE!)
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2006, 03:14:06 PM »
Hard to tell what's going on there... From that DRADIS shot there doesn't seem to be a Battlestar in between the 2 Basestars, but a "enemy fighter"...

I dunno, maybe someone's flying in a Viper by remote with a nuke strapped on it to get a "2 fer" on the closely grouped Basestars & open up a hole in the Cylon defense perimeter?


« Last Edit: October 15, 2006, 03:20:09 PM by skippy9146 »


EchoZero

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Episode 304 (LOTS OF SPOILERS, BEWARE!)
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2006, 04:01:00 PM »
Here is the sequence I captured:  I still say the first frame I posted earlier makes it look like Galactica with flight pods retracted, but the other shots make me think not.  It is too slender along the long axis of the ship.  I have no idea what it is.  Whatever it is, it went boom.
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