Author Topic: The Ask a Modeler Thread.  (Read 29139 times)

VA [TI]

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The Ask a Modeler Thread.
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2006, 01:47:12 AM »
Easy actually - just make the turret's base geometry a tiny cube that won't get seen, and make the ball of the turret the arm. If the centre of the arm is in the centre of the sphere, and the centre of the cube is in the same spot, and this spot is in line with the hull, the turret will rotate like a ball. :)

Like this:


As for unioning the turret barrels - it's not absolutely nessecary, you're right. PCS will merge them into one geometry on conversion if it finds two geometries in the same subobject on the same heirarchy level.

However, I've experienced first hand that doing it this way can cause Z buffer problems if any sort of transparency is used, thus it's much safer to union them, though not imperative. Certainly not a reason to reconvert something if that's the only thing 'wrong' with it. :)

Star Dragon

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« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2006, 12:49:54 PM »
ops!   It's not a complete ball, it's half a sphere ^  But thanks!!! I will have actual ball turrets l8tr on and that info will come in handy!. Still will try ti that way but I fea that it may elevate too far forward or abck and reveal teh open plane.. I'll post a poc of it later adn my experiement
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VA [TI]

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The Ask a Modeler Thread.
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2006, 03:01:31 PM »
It wouldn't happen to look like something like this would it?
http://webzoom.freewebs.com/twisted-infinities-va/MiscStuff/New%5FTurretBeamTest.avi

(sorry, the beam effect is horrible, but the rotation style is the point of interest. ;) )

Star Dragon

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« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2006, 04:06:01 PM »
close... arg I had it workign but the rotations were reversed, fixed it now it won't fire at all.... Plus turret01-base shows up as a submodel (?) I opened teh cheops for comparision and all their turrets only habe turretx and turretx-arm sub models, am I doing somethign wrogn with glue??? The hull part is complicated so I can't use manual tool and buttons for child/sibling at that point, I have to use the extension hierarcy dropping...

damn truied to upload, 700kb too big....

{edit]  Pls take a look and see if I screwed up.  DF extension means dorsal front. Turret is oriented to face forward on top of bow. I will have these facign rear, Ventral forward and Ventral rear as well...

http://www.filelodge.com/files/room11/271790/Model%20WIPs/ikaturret.rar

Long term goal is to get center point working then add two firing points to either side of main one matching texture, they will fire simultaneously (all being FP-01)...

Looks like you are not on anymore today.. I will see who's on messenger...

I just had an idea and opened the turret agin...My light's and axsi are GONE... I downloaded the file I posted and that's stripped too....I have to start all over again... This is very frustrating...
« Last Edit: April 05, 2006, 04:34:55 PM by Star Dragon »
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VA [TI]

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The Ask a Modeler Thread.
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2006, 04:55:40 PM »
Just follow this heirarchy:


Yours currently looks like this:

Turret01-base
---|
---|- BaseGeometry
---|
---|- ArmGeometry

This will create a single part turret when converted, which is obviously not what you want.



You're after this:

Turret01-base--<= Object Group (highest heirarchy level)
---|
---|- BaseGeometry-----<= This Object is glued to....
---|
---|- Turret01-arm------<= ....this Object Group on the same heirarchy level
--------|
--------|-ArmGeometry----<= This Object is glued to....
--------|
--------|- Light-----------<= ....this Light on the same heirarchy level

To do that, make the Turret01-arm Object Group first - take the ArmGeometry and glue a light to it as a sibling. Then in the heirarchy editor rename the group (not the light or the ArmGeometry - the parent group you just created) to Turret01-arm.

When that's done, drag the Turret01-arm Object Group onto the BaseGeometry object. This will make the ArmGeometry and it's sibling light child objects of the BaseGeometry object, and you should end up with the heirarchy format you see in the above screenie (though as you did with the Turret01-arm Object Group, you'll need to rename it to something like Turret01-base.) :)

To attach your new turret to the hull of your ship, staying in the heirarchy editor, simply select the highest level of heirarchy of your turret (in this case the Turret01-base Object Group), and drag it over your main hull Object Group or geometry - just as you did with the Turret01-arm Object Group.
This will glue your new turret to the hull as a child object, which is as it should be.

And you're done. :)
If you're still having trouble, say so and I'll whack some demonstration pics together if you like.

Edit: Oops, missed this bit sorry: "opened the turret agin...My light's and axsi are GONE"
Errm, make sure you save it as a .scn file rather than a .cob. Beyond that I can't really help there. :\
« Last Edit: April 05, 2006, 04:58:17 PM by VA [TI] »

Star Dragon

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« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2006, 05:19:26 PM »
Not a problem. I think I'll be logging soon...  The thing was I had it working as a single part turret, but just would not turn left or right. then later it worked but the half cricle rotated OFF the hull at the X axis in stead of the firing point rotating around it and the half circle rotating on the Z axis went back into modelview and reversed that, but then it stopped working at all and would neither turn no fire....

I was just wondering why I had a submodel called base01, and under it turret01 and then turret arm01 when every ship I've seen only has 2 entries per turret (if they are multi-part) tha'ts why I wondered if I wsa doing something wrong  but of course you won't know now cause it got stripped (but I did have it look exactly as you posted before which confused me though. I did it...
« Last Edit: April 05, 2006, 05:22:21 PM by Star Dragon »
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Star Dragon

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« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2006, 06:03:34 PM »
I'm having a really PEACHY day today... I just locked up TS3.2 somehow and now my eyepoint cannot rotate. I can onyl walk through world or move eyepoint but I cannot rotate it..... ARG!!!  Any idea how to unlock it? I shut it down and opened it again, still locked. Great I go back to work in 7 hours... I've been fighting this turret issue since I got home...

{edit] problem solved I said screw it and deleted TS and reinstalled...
« Last Edit: April 05, 2006, 06:18:23 PM by Star Dragon »
"Don\'t think of it as being out-numbered, think of it as having a WIDE target selection!"
 
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VA [TI]

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« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2006, 09:40:28 AM »
Quote from: Star Dragon
then later it worked but the half cricle rotated OFF the hull at the X axis in stead of the firing point rotating around it and the half circle rotating on the Z axis went back into modelview and reversed that, but then it stopped working at all and would neither turn no fire....
If you're still having that problem, it means your axes are off - you need to define the axis for the Turret01-base Object Group as well as for the Turret01-arm Object Group - the axes you define for the individual base and arm geometries are not used. Only those for the Object Groups.

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« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2006, 12:21:58 PM »
Heh np, I will cut and paste these posts for easier reference... I am sure I will get this down someday..  If I sound frustrated, it's only with myself and TS3.2

I appreciate the help you've given!
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« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2006, 01:47:03 PM »
No worries - once you get the gist of object groups, geometries, heirarchy, lights and axes, it should all become much easier. You should be a good part of the way there already actually. :)

If you're still confused/find more questions, keep asking here, and I'll do my best to answer. ('tis what the thread's for after all. :) )

Incidentally - a good way to understand heirarchy is to think of it like an arm. Your arm is the highest level of heirarchy, your palm a child object of it, and your fingers children of the palm. Thus when you move your arm, you move your palm and fingers. When you move your palm, you move your fingers, and your fingers can still move on their own.
A bit cheesy I know, but it really is a good way to learn the concept. ('tis how I learned it 4 years back anyway ;) )

Oh, and finally, see if there's any way you can 'acquire' a better version of TS, since 3.2 is mind numbing to use and has more bugs than Battlefield 2.

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« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2006, 03:10:03 AM »
I tried it a few diff ways end result come sout teh same, turret will only work in reverse meaning both sections rotate wrong but ti will fire. It works normally in modelview but will not fire in game.  So I reverse teh rotation axi adn it works as shown...
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« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2006, 03:19:20 AM »
Hmm, could you PM/post your pof so I can take a look? I have an idea of what may be happening, but I can't say for certain. A pof would greatly help in this regard. :)

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« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2006, 05:00:27 AM »
Sure, keep in mind this turret is onl one of many diff attempts I keep overwriting each time so there is only this one.
http://www.filelodge.com/files/room11/271790/Model%20WIPs/Ikazuchi.rar
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« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2006, 09:44:25 AM »
Ah, ok - I can see what's happening here. You've basically got the roles of the turret base and the turret arm reversed. What you would have been seeing in-mission is FS trying to 'aim' the turret base as though it was the barrel, because as far as FS is concerned, it is. ;)

You're basically trying to create a single part rotating turret as opposed to a multi-part one. Obviously, you want it to spin on the spot - just like the base of a multi part turret, but you don't want any barrels aiming at things.
The way to achieve this is basically to make the barrels invisible. Just take that current hidden cube you have (which is acting as the base), and place it as close to where you want the actual firepoints as possible without it peaking through the hull.
Then you glue it to a light to create the "Turret01-arm" Object Group, and you glue that as a child to the base geometry, thus creating the "Turret01-base" Object Group.

What will happen is that as far as FS is concerned, it's a perfectly normal multipart turret, but to the player, only the base will rotate - there will be no apparent turret arms.
If you then set the actual firepoint to shoot straight out of the centre of the cube (the turret arms), then those shots should emerge very close to the textured-on firepoints.

Another small issue I spotted is that you've got:
$special=subsystem
$fov=180
$name=GunTurret
Written in both parts of the turret's subsystem properties. It should only appear in the base's properties, with the arms properties left blank. :)

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« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2006, 01:53:00 PM »
thanks! I was gonna try teh invisible thingy (liek I do for Trek) a little later, just wanted to get it workign first. As fro teh double table.. seems liek teh mods I opened had that so I was merely going by what I saw.

Is that part of the reason it won't fire UNLESS I reverse the roles (as yo u poiunted out) as doing it normal (liek I tried first) won't work at the moment.

Will try your suggestions out and then report back... I tried a turret starman kindly loaded up for me and when I opened it in TS something happened to it (which is wierd cause it is a NEW install)  Again normal would NOT work so I reverse teh roles, now it works but of course wrongly...

   It might very well be something with 3.2  I am currently, lookign around (this weekend)...
"Don\'t think of it as being out-numbered, think of it as having a WIDE target selection!"
 
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My powers outside the Robotech section are weak. (as it should be)

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