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Messages - ngtm1r

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FreeSpace - Atmospheric / Post your ideas for DEFCON FreeSpace
« on: October 09, 2009, 11:05:08 PM »
Easy war start.

Somebody breaks the UN treaty regarding offworld settlement...i.e., you can't claim any particular off-planet area as your own.

You could set up a US state on the moon, call it Lincoln. :P

Earth Defence / Just asking
« on: October 09, 2009, 11:01:49 PM »
That's...significantly worse than I thought you were doing.

General Freespace / Freespace 2 Anniversary!!!
« on: September 30, 2009, 10:16:40 PM »
Eh, it's not able to vote quite yet...

General Discussion / An interesting question?
« on: September 26, 2009, 08:42:09 PM »
When I bother, I'm using C4D R8

Freespace 2 MODing / Help - Squadron Logos
« on: September 22, 2009, 04:48:58 AM »

Freespace 2 MODing / Help - Squadron Logos
« on: September 22, 2009, 02:43:18 AM »
I'm going to assume you already tried using a dropper tool to pick up the color from another squadron logo.

Shadows of Lylat / StarFox fan suggestions and ideas
« on: September 16, 2009, 01:25:14 AM »
Yeah that one's not gonna happen, kids.

Utlima Cena / Ultima Cena - Coming soon!
« on: September 16, 2009, 01:24:05 AM »
It does.

Also, congradulations. I don't recognize the class. :P

General Freespace / Post-Isolation Sol Politics
« on: September 14, 2009, 12:32:45 PM »
Quote from: karajorma;121242
Or were held back together with 1st fleet for a last ditch attack on the Lucifer should the destruction of the Lucifer in subspace fail.

Which doesn't work, as the forward deployment predicates on a condition predating the Great War: the Terran-Vasudan conflict. The Great War also offers plenty of places for GTI's combat forces to be deployed, such as Ross 128 and points slightly closer in. The GTA made no effort to redeploy forces for a massive showdown with the Lucifer that we know of, so why exactly would they be in Sol?

Quote from: karajorma;121242

Pretty much every single mod based in Sol is rampant speculation anyway since we have no data beyond the mysterious silence of the system so I see little point in trying to definitively claim something couldn't happen when it's quite clear that you can set up the backstory so that it could.

Sure, yeah, you can say First Fleet was commanded by Donald Rumsfield and all, even though that's pretty insulting considering the GTA's general level of apparent competence. I'll buy that, I suppose. And there is of course not letting logic get too heavily in the way of a good story.

But everyone and their dog (except BP) has posited some kind of fragmentation and war, which is basically the least-likely outcome if we assume all participants are not idiots.

Quote from: karajorma;121242

I got your point. You missed mine. Can you state the make up of 1st fleet? I can't see the captain of a Destroyer from Mars supporting any actions he feels are overly draconian.

No, you're still missing mine. No draconian actions are required for the scenario I describe. Seizing control of all combat spacecraft is probably a natural consequence of a last-ditch defense against the Lucifer. After that, it's not even much of a question. First Fleet will look out for the interests of First Fleet, which involve not blowing each other up and not letting other people blow them up. And if in the process they manage to avoid a lot of civilian suffering and extra economic dislocation, that's just extra. It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian mission, not active combat operations.

Besides. A career officer like that will also undoubtedly identify more strongly with his service than his birthplace. The GTA is his country.

Quote from: karajorma;121242

Bosch managed to subvert the majority of his fleet without anyone getting a whiff of it until it was too late. I can easily see GTI or someone else doing it too. Hell, subverting first fleet might have been part of the plan for the Hades Rebellion all along.

They had the Hades. They didn't think they needed anyone else. Without the Hades, the rebellion would never have gone forward. With the Hades, there was no reason to want outside assistance.

General Freespace / Post-Isolation Sol Politics
« on: September 14, 2009, 05:47:19 AM »
Quote from: karajorma;121238
They were also an organisation almost certainly founded in Sol and probably based there too. We don't know for certain that the orders for the Hades Rebellion didn't originate from Sol before the end of the Great War (possibly even before the start of it since it takes time to build a ship the size of the Hades and it's a fairly good bet that the GTI had some contact with Shivans before the rest of the GTVA military were aware of them).

In other words we don't know how connected the GTI are in Sol. I certainly wouldn't put organising a coup in Sol past them considering how good a job they managed to do of it so far away from the system that is likely their power base.

And who's to say the Hades Rebellion wasn't a direct result of losing contact with Sol, instead? Rampant speculation cuts both ways. However, in this case we're also assuming GTI is still not crazy, and their combat forces would clearly have been out deployed towards or in the fighting. Perhaps there is a great GTI bureaucracy in Sol, but that does not a successful revolt create. This would require a subversion of regular GTA combat forces, something they specifically did not on the exterior and there is no reason they would do on the interior when most of them are probably just trying to find a new job.

Quote from: karajorma;121238

Fair point. But it's not hard to stir up resentment at all if you really want to. And we have no idea what civilian politics are like in Sol. It could be that relations between Mars and Earth have always been a powder keg for instance. With the rest of the GTA systems gone, squabbling between those two could quickly result in all kinds of unrest and violence. If 1st fleet intervenes that is very quickly going to make the situation worse.

That's missing my point. First Fleet has seized control of all combat-capable spacecraft in Sol and the means to produce more. You can't have a shooting war between the colonies now. First Fleet has shielded fightercraft armed with Disruptors to deal with your fleets of Elysiums and Chronoseseses nonlethally if they wish, or Prometheus and Banshees if they don't. The situation is now basically analogous to what would happen if Micronesia's police force was the US Navy. Nobody is resisting because there is no possible way to do so.

Their primary objective would be to maintain that state of affairs to prevent deterioration of Solar politics and the inevitable humanitarian disasters that will come with that. This is a thankless task, probably, but it is imminently doable when you're the only guy with guns.

Quote from: karajorma;121238

I've already pointed out that it is easy to generate an external enemy. And we've already seen from the NTF how quickly that can cause an entire fleet to defect.

Which ignores two important facts; Earth is still going to be overwhelmingly represented in the recruiting base, and you can base all your ships in one particular spot thanks to the subspace drive and the best spot is probably Earth from a logistical standpoint. The NTF succeeded in subverting the regional fleet. In this case, there is only one fleet and it's based in only one region. Anyone else up a creek without a paddle.

In fact tying in with the objective to maintain control above, if they really percieve a danger, First Fleet might simply restrict their recruiting efforts to one venue, thereby locking everyone else out, and their basing at another, thereby locking the recruiting venue out while simulatanously frustrating the efforts of the basing venue to subvert the fleet.

Quote from: karajorma;121238

Even if I bought those figures, which I don't, you've basically said that an armed rebellion can seize control of Sol (which was my main objection to your post).

Well, sure. I'm looking at this from a purely spaceborne perspective. Anything's possible on the ground, but as far as a shooting war in space goes, it's pretty much out of the question if First Fleet is competent. Even a marginally effective insurgency is not going to possible for at least ten years while you put together some ships to actually conduct it without somehow calling down upon your head the wrath of an Ursa wing.

General Freespace / Post-Isolation Sol Politics
« on: September 14, 2009, 03:14:57 AM »
Silent Threat happened because they had a shot: the Hades. More importantly, they were also a totally seperate organization from the normal command structure and not subject to it, making it much easier to conceal their activies and much easier for the whole defection idea to get into their heads in the first place.

The NTF had an ideal to fight for, that of the lost Earth (doesn't quite work here), but more importantly, it had a manufactured external enemy, the Vasudans. Who were in fact geniunely alien and therefore vastly easier to stir up resentment against then other humans.

First Fleet is an entity of unified command structure, whose only existing ideals are to uphold and protect the GTA, with no external enemy since there aren't terribly many Vasudans around Sol, no giant superweapon to provide a breakaway attempt any hope of a sucessful campaign.

So we're talking a minimum of five years, more probably ten, before any resistance movement of meaningful strength (for a campaign to be based on, in other words) springs up. Probably fifteen until there's a reasonable chance they seize actual control of anything.

General Freespace / Post-Isolation Sol Politics
« on: September 14, 2009, 02:26:08 AM »
Quote from: Mobius;121229
Judging from that post of yours, you haven't read the topic's title either. Politics and military are connected, but not necessarily glued.
You're basically giving for sure that the First Fleet will remain loyal to the GTA authorities. What you're completing ignoring is the fact that the vast majority of the 1st Fleet itself may cause the downfall of the GTA in Sol.

Power, as Mao said, grows from the barrel of a gun. First Fleet has all the guns, and thus has all the power.

A little late to the party, aren't we?

But okay, I'll bite.

Why? We've got no precedent for this kind of massive-scale disloyalty. What kind of cause can you give them for it?

The only reasonable explanation I can come up with, really, is units becoming too attached to their posts and not enough to First Fleet, and that can be remedied by contracting First Fleet to Luna/Earth (assuming it's not already all based there anyways, which it may well be), or frequent rotation.

General Discussion / Hola Folks
« on: September 11, 2009, 07:57:04 AM »
Ruining people's brains.

Slaves Shall Serve / First pic! Enjoy!
« on: September 09, 2009, 10:45:48 PM »
Quote from: Mobius;121108
How long until you'll start whining about plot-related info? :P

I figure it's not fair to do it until they've posted more than 25 screenies without explaining the plot at all. :P

General Freespace / Post-Isolation Sol Politics
« on: September 08, 2009, 12:04:01 AM »
I'm pretty sure you didn't read the thread's title.

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