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Messages - Enki

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Tmp2 / 3rd party stuff (yes more of it)
« on: November 26, 2008, 08:29:53 PM »
But that is a symptom.  It didn't cause the intra-team creative issues which eventually led to the split.  The dissatisfied folks could have just as easily abandoned BSG altogether.  It's not great either way, but that's life.

Tmp2 / 3rd party stuff (yes more of it)
« on: November 26, 2008, 12:46:12 AM »
Diaspora will not hurt this mod.  Both mods will stand on their own and largely be judged by players when they have something to play.

The split may have affected schedules, but possibly not that much since we have yet to see RDM finish the series and what that brings to nBSG canon.

Tmp2 / I liked this demo but...
« on: November 10, 2008, 11:32:13 PM »
This has already been hashed out a frakking length.

Realism of swearing thread

Tmp2 / Is BtRL actually dead? (Nope. -Omni)
« on: November 09, 2008, 12:30:31 AM »
I think they know where each other are and how to get ahold of one another.  And if that ever happens it is much more likely to be behind the scenes rather than in plain view.

Tmp2 / Is BtRL actually dead? (Nope. -Omni)
« on: November 08, 2008, 09:41:39 PM »
You're right. I competely agree that in an egoless world that is by far the best course of action.

Now lets be realistic for a moment.
A) Scotchy left BtRL, why would he want to hand over his new work to a mod that he doesn't want to participate in anymore??? [Reportedly he did leave the existing Peggy for BtRL use.]
B) Omniscaper is still the head of BtRL, why would he want to give his Galactica to a group that left him in the lurch and maybe help them finish before BtRL?

I'm not making any value judgements here, and I don't know anything more than "creative differences".  Just noting that this team split seems far more like an unhappy divorce, than a simple we've grown apart and the kids are gone so lets just go separate ways, OK.

Maybe time will heal creative differences, maybe not. I'm not going to hold my breath.  I just hope both teams can do good work and finish.

Tmp2 / Is BtRL actually dead? (Nope. -Omni)
« on: November 05, 2008, 05:05:20 PM »
Quote from: Echilles;108567

Having read about their "R1" it's nice to have several ships and I'm definitely looking forward to it... But in the end the thing that hooks me to the game is the plot. And I'm much more interested in following the journey of Battlestar Galactica than Battlestar Randomnicus.

Anyways best of the luck for both teams!

Fair enough.  But by definition, both mods are outside the canon storyline no matter how much they strive to stay "true" to any perceived canon. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, it is an unavoidable thing since whatever is not on the screen during a producer provided episode is not actually "canon".

So if the starting point is non-canon, but the plot lines and other details of the mods are in keeping with the spirit of the series, what is the real difference in the name of the battlestar?  Before Larson sprung Pegasus on the original Galactica, the Bucket was the only one, what's to say that if larson or RDM went for another three or four years they might not run into some others?  It's a worthless argument for justifying another ship as canon, but is a very valid starting point for  attempting to come up with a plotline for a game.  

Personally I think the final delivered plotlines and play will be far more important than the names. Great play and plot will overcome small deviations from on-screen canon, and the opposite would be just as true.  I have a feeling both mods have a pretty good chance of getting play and plotline right, even from differing viewpoints and adherence to on-screen canon.

Tmp2 / Is BtRL actually dead? (Nope. -Omni)
« on: November 03, 2008, 07:24:05 PM »
Quote from: Mobius
You sound a bit pathetic. If you like to mention my activity on Diaspora's main forum then should do it properly by quoting both good and bad things... I also have all the right to post my opinion.

Yes you do have the right to post your opinion. You also get to live with your own words, that is part of the right to free speech.  

You take offering to translate for another mod to be saying nice things about it or BtRL? [first post link] It's is constructive, but it doesn't make your present point for you.  Or criticizing other modelers for the same things you criticize BtRL& Diaspora, duplication? [second post link].  I'm afraid that just does not make sense to me. Everyone is a volunteer, be happy we/they want to participate.

Go ahead and transfer your frustration onto me, even keep up the ad hom's. It's really helpful to everyone and I'm sure will help finish those mods you think the BSG mods and other interested fan modeling is hurting. :rolleyes:

Tmp2 / Is BtRL actually dead? (Nope. -Omni)
« on: November 03, 2008, 05:41:45 AM »
I don't think Mobius was saying lurkers because they aren't coding, he seems to think coders are small potatoes compared to the heavy-lifter FREDers: "coding a few to complement other people's work and FREDding a lot to run a mod and prevent its death".  I guess he forgets FREDers need coders and coders work is pointless without the FREDers and modelers and animators and sound folks...  Its symbiotic all the way around.

I think he really just believes there isn't any worthwhile new-blood of any modding kind due to BtRL and Diaspora. Pick your mouse back up, grab the latest update of Blender and get to work showing him wrong another way too!

Tmp2 / Is BtRL actually dead? (Nope. -Omni)
« on: November 03, 2008, 12:01:11 AM »
Quote from: Snagger;108439
Sums me up perfectly - I'm not much of a gamer, and only stumbled across BtRL on a BSG Google search.  I'd never heard of Free Space before that.

I'm glad that some agree that sharing resources would be beneficial, where appropriate.  I suspect that such agreement was all that was intended by Mobius, not a condemnation of the duplication now happening, or at least I hope so.

Quote from: Deckard;108441
I honestly second this question Mobius did above

Well given the fact Diaspora exists because of a split with BtRL the chances for overt open cooperation are somewhere between slim and none with slim last seen on a bus leaving town. Mobius is very aware of that and for some inexplicable reason running pecenipicek's "BSG is hurting other mods" criticisms here after those same views were rather forcefully rebuffed by everyone on the HLP board where the original exchange took place.

Not to mention that he isn't exactly acting the part of a friend of BtRL & Diaspora, he is in a fairly straight-up way stirring things up, for the sake of stirring them up.  Mobiius feels he KNOWS the status of things over here. His words from the HLP board:

Quote from: Mobius
At this point I wonder if BtRL is still case of death you should change your policy on BtRL stuff.

Quote from: Mobius
That's right...and most BtRL members passed to Diaspora...

Quote from: Mobius
I'd like to get INFA done before working on ED.

And yeah, the whole new forum is pretty active. Diaspora is a nice, promising mod. :)

Quote from: Mobius
Well, it's a matter of opinions. Officially, most BtRL team members left to form the new Diaspora team...but looks like, well, most BtRL members got rid of the others who're still on GW for partially known reasons. If people had different opinions on internal a poll should've been enough to clarify everything. If so many members agreed with Karajorma why did the others refuse to accept the fact that the plans for a BSG mod needed urgent changes?

I don't find the members of the Diaspora team childish(how can Karajorma be childish?!?). I think the others are pretty childish because they think to keep BtRL running with a skeleton team and without the support of so many. HLP is all for Diaspora.

He knows about the split, he knows who is left working with who. He positions himself as a stand-up team player over at HLP, but here he is sowing, fear, uncertainty and doubt that BtRL and Diaspora are hurting other mod's ability to get finished. AND that the BtRL team is less than deserving of everyone's full support. That is a completely baseless and unfounded conclusion.

I personally want to see both mods do well. Hell I would like to see all the FS_Open mods do well, even ED despite Mobius' recent posting record.  With the recent GOG listing of FS2 and a little help from VMWare I am running FS_Open on the Mac and have looked at several of the other mods.  It is a cool community!  It's very unfortunate that some seem to be trying to split it or cause dissension due to some misplaced jealousy.

Quote from: Mobius;108440
A lot of people know about FreeSpace and the SCP thanks to BSG mods but that's not the point. Most of them aren't going to get involved in FreeSpace and ignore the efforts behind the upgrade of the SCP. These people have poor-to-unexistant experience of modding a la FreeSpace and are, therefore, not going to revolution the community with other than lurker roles.

He just doesn't get it and once again ignored the fact that if even a small percentage of folks are getting involved that would have never been involved before, it is a good thing, not a bad thing. And revolution?  Who want's revolution?  I certainly wouldn't think that just because some new members are unlikely to "revolutionize" something is reason for acting in an alienating manner.

In a put-up or shut up move I started coding on the SCP engine a few weeks ago.  I'm just a pogue, not yet part of any team because I havent delivered.  Yet. I hardly consider myself deserving of any special status, but I guess coders not named "Taylor, Karajorma, Goober5000, WMCoolmon" are chopped liver where he comes from and not deserving of any encouragement or welcoming into a VERY small community.

Why is is to hard to play nice in the sandbox? Is that going to make it any easier to recruit for his mod?

Tmp2 / Is BtRL actually dead? (Nope. -Omni)
« on: November 02, 2008, 01:46:56 AM »
Quote from: Mobius;108429
Earth Defense isn't my main project, though... :rolleyes:

Nobody here is hating a given team. I think, however, a few mod developers have all the right to post their opinions - here and on HLP - about the recent events. It's a matter of respect to consider these opinions without replying with the classic "What are you doing?", "Don't compromise the popularity of your mod!" and such comments. Giving your comment it's pretty clear that you're not a developer - try to do most of a mod job by yourself for over two years and let me know if the shortage of potential members doesn't bug people.

The point is that someone might consider the fact that there are two BSG mods a waste of resources and time. I'm not one such person, though - it's just a suspect. The two teams should find a way to collaborate, competition has certain limits. It'd be better if they regroup or, at least, cooperate.

Your intuition that I am not a developer isn't so accurate. I've been gaming 1.5x longer than you have been alive and coding for almost that long too.  I am working on some SCP coding, although I have not done anything worth making me part of a team yet. Do you really want to metaphorically piss in the well of someone who will choose which features or bugs to work on?

I heard of FS_Open because of BtRL, and now that timing is workable I'm trying to do some SCP coding.  No BtRL to have caught my interest, no coding. For any FS_Open based mod.  See a direct correlation to my earlier post?  You are pissing-off someone new, introduced to the community by BtRL, who is coding in an all-mod manner for your precious engine. Is that a smart thing to do?

Until this post I have given you opportunities to stop being an elitest. You have deferred the opportunity.  I suggest you adjust attitude and learn something about how to work with people, not against them.


Tmp2 / Is BtRL actually dead? (Nope. -Omni)
« on: November 01, 2008, 10:25:55 PM »
So much sour grapes.  People work on what they love.  Don't hate another group because what they love happens to have a wider built-in audience.  Shortsightedness won't help at all and will only make others avoid your mods - specifically as your comments throw a less than friendly light on the Earth Defense team.  Do you mean to turn others away by whining and complaining?  Do your mod team-members want that attitude being the first substantial contact a potential player and contributor has of your mod?

Just ask yourself what percentage of the BtRL/Diaspora crowd would have never known of any other FS_Open mod because they didn't even know about FS2 & FS_Open.  I'm sure it's a very high percentage. Now ask yourself how many of those hundreds of thousands you cited may show an interest in FS_Open over the next year or two?  Even just a couple percent will generate a few thousand more players and probably several dozen new mod team members.  

Show us why you love your mod! We may get interested!  If you can't do that it must be pretty lame. Which do you want the court of public opinion to think?

Tmp2 / Is BtRL actually dead? (Nope. -Omni)
« on: November 01, 2008, 09:16:47 PM »
Quote from: Mobius;108416
Two BSG mods may be better than one but I don't like the fact that a given Universe and its models(stuff, more in general) are being created twice while many teams are in dire need of modellers, texturers and FREDders and don't get any help.

Don't think the fact that BSG fans are so excited(thanks to the presence of two BSG mods) is going to make the whole FreeSpace community happy, someone might get(or already is) sick of it. Pecenipicek recently demonstrated it on HLP.


I know the current BtRL team doesn't tend to post a lot, at least not here, but I'd encourage you BtRL guys to take a look at the new builds of FSO. FSO 3.6.10 offers many upgrades and other goodies. It's currently being "liberated"(lol) from bugs and further development has been delayed...but you should definitely take a look. :)

The lack of members on mod A isn't due to new members leaving mod A, it is just new members.  Members who may eventually get involved in those other mods.  Frankly though, it's more likely that dissing both BSG mods in their own fora will make the newer BSG crowd think twice about participating in the mods of whiners.

So instead of lamenting your mods inability to drum up new members on it's own, I suggest you find some way of making mod more enticing to join.  Or do you prefer potential SCP contributers to only contribute upgrades to a particular game's code, but not to the SCP where all can use it?  Push away an expansion of the community and loose big time. Be a little patient, play nicely and advertise your mods goodness and win big time.  Seems like a simple choice to me.

Tmp2 / Is BtRL actually dead? (Nope. -Omni)
« on: October 26, 2008, 09:18:47 PM »
Quote from: On_Your_Six;108198
"Not many" is a bit of an inaccurate statement.

There's still some great names in the current team, so I'm definitely not too worried.

The list you quote as solace that the current team OK is actually is the Diaspora dev list.  The ones that left BtRL.

At the time of this post there is no BtRL dev list on the main site. hat makes "not many" left a likely overstatement, not inaccurate at all.  It's unfortunate and can hopefully be overcome.

Tmp2 / Is BtRL actually dead? (Nope. -Omni)
« on: October 26, 2008, 04:17:50 AM »
The question isn't who left.  The question is who's left beyond Omni?

Tmp2 / Is BtRL actually dead? (Nope. -Omni)
« on: October 20, 2008, 03:21:48 AM »
Quote from: Omniscaper;107953
Player communities come and go as well as the projects who depend on such attention to stay focused, rather than self-discipline, steadfastness, and vision to keep motivated.

But thank you for reminding me of my motives for starting this project 4 years ago; to become popular in internet forums and accumulate fans. FRACK my own BSG fanaticism, FRELL elevating art standards in a developing engine and forget sensible game design and development DREN and the personal satisfaction that comes with matching quality levels of commercial games. HooorRah masses appeasment!

I wonder whats worse, having a game publisher or impatient spectators breathing down our necks.

Like I said, BtRL will update media on our own schedule and accord. And I do not require your belief, just your patience. In the mean time BtRL will continue to press on with "transparancy" taken under advisement.

Dude it was your choice to put up the forum and website rather than wait until the whole thing is done.  Whinging about impatient spectators is misplaced when your own decisions put you in this position, which isn't even a position, just you own manufactured faux me-against-the-world lamentations. And poking your players in the eye really helps your reputation. Feel free to make your own personal mod, but that will take a helluva long time.

I do really wish you and the team well and completely respect the "When it's done!" as being the correct answer for when it will be finished.  That is as it should be.  But when you choose to answer you generally treat the fans poorly.  Either quit answering and keep your foot out of your mouth or, be a bit magnanimous and spend the 10 minutes a month you answer and get all pissy and instead write a one paragraph progress post/news entry and post a screen-grab.  Fans will love the team for it and you won't get any more of these threads.

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