Game Warden Forums

Freespace => Freespace 2 MODing => Topic started by: Snail on January 24, 2009, 08:59:06 PM

Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: Snail on January 24, 2009, 08:59:06 PM
Lately something has been bugging me.

Why the hell is everyone always making Terran ships? Honestly it's a shame; because already we have a whole array of Terran ships... And yet there are very few Vasudan and Shivan ones that are actually any good.

IMO we should encourage people to do more Vasudan and Shivan mods.

What are your thoughts? Maybe you are somehow affected by the lack of Vasudan and Shivan mods? Post your comments here.
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: Mobius on January 24, 2009, 09:15:29 PM
IMO it's a bad, but nevertheless justified, tendence. It happens virtually everywhere, Terrans always have more stuff to use simply because there are more concepts to be applied from RL.

Yeah, there should definitely be more Vasudan and Shivan stuff. Especially Vasudan, since the Shivans aren't 100% known and we have no info on their installations/outposts.

I hope to see a new tendence in modelling. :)
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: shiv on January 24, 2009, 09:22:54 PM
It's a big shame that most of mods are Terran. There's lack of any zod or Shivan ships (for Shivan the most. And Inferno R1 mods are crap, no offense :P).

IMO we've got the most of Terran mods, because they're the easiest to do. No complicated shapes, just simple blocks and easy to do maps/textures.

I'd love to see a plenty of new Shivan fighters in bombers in action anyway! :D
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: karajorma on January 24, 2009, 09:44:56 PM
Vasudan and Shivan ships have a certain style to them in a way that Terran ships don't. Even if you'd never played FS2 and were just shown a picture of the Sobek and Hatshepsut you'd know they were from the same species. Show them the Deimos and Hecate and you probably wouldn't get that reaction.

It's even more true for the Shivan ships than the Vasudans.
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: shiv on January 24, 2009, 10:00:54 PM
Quote
Show them the Deimos and Hecate and you probably wouldn't get that reaction.
And maybe that's one of a reasons why I liked more FS1. All ships had unified style. I liked much more FS1 ship design. Just look at all those ships, they look like one specie :)
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: Snail on January 25, 2009, 12:48:17 PM
You people realize there were 100+ TERRAN FIGHTERS on Hades Combine (before it went down) and only around 10 Shivan mods in total?
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: Mobius on January 25, 2009, 01:21:06 PM
IMO efforts should be focused on creating more Vasudan ships. As I said before, unlike the Shivans, the Vasudans are part of the Alliance and therefore we should be able to see everything they're capable of. We may not care about Shivan installations, right, but Vasudan ones deserves a lot more attention.
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: Snail on January 25, 2009, 03:02:38 PM
Honestly I think focus shouldn't only be concentrated on Vasudan mods - Most mods actually seem to ignore the Vasudans and make them more of just a 'helper' sort of race - An unimportant one that is there just to help the Terrans. For example in many campaigns like Derelict, INFR1, Warzone, the Vasudans have no real plot purpose except to help the Terrans. Hell, they didn't even appear in Blue Planet. In these campaigns new ships would hardly get involvement except to be there and look pretty.

Most campaigns feature the Shivans as the main antagonist. And as we've seen, that gets old quickly. Honestly I've gotten sick of killing Maras and Nahemas left and right - I'd like something new. The addition of high-quality Shivan mods into the mix would really liven up new campaigns since most of them have Shivans as fighting.

Don't get me wrong, the Vasudans SERIOUSLY need mods as well, I'm just saying there's no reason to neglect the Shivans.
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: Mobius on January 25, 2009, 03:27:28 PM
The few Vasudan based campaigns I played were interesting, and we surely need more of them.

It's kind of hard, anyway. It's pretty much like pretending people to design more Pre-Capella Era campaigns when the tendence is to create Post-Capella ones(everyone has his own vision of a P-C GTVA so he decides to design a campaign, etc. etc.).
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: Moonred on January 25, 2009, 03:33:59 PM
Maybe im not a good modeler but terran ships are extreamly easy to model.
Vasudan are second and shivan are the hardest to make (especialy fs1 style)
Hard to find (if it is possible) modeler who love making shivan ships (and they look awshum)
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: Snail on January 25, 2009, 04:32:11 PM
It's easy to do the easy thing. It's hard to do the hard thing.

But honestly you should do the hard thing if it's the right thing.
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: Moonred on January 25, 2009, 04:42:43 PM
But not always You are able to do hard things ;)
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: shiv on January 25, 2009, 04:45:42 PM
Hey. About BluePlanet. It's a big shame that Darius forgot about the Vasudans. I feel that they're forgotten in most of the campaigns. I want to change that in ED and use them as much as we used Terrans in all previous campaigns.

And I'd love to play Vasudan campaign :D
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: Mobius on January 25, 2009, 05:06:34 PM
I think the Vasudan wouldn't fit in AoA but I expect them to have an important role in WiH...
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: shiv on January 25, 2009, 05:10:44 PM
I hope so. FreeSpace without Vasudans don't have classic feeling of original Volition campaigns.
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: Snail on January 25, 2009, 10:27:29 PM
Quote from: shiv;111323
I hope so. FreeSpace without Vasudans don't have classic feeling of original Volition campaigns.
Thing is AoA wasn't a classic campaign in the traditional sense. It focused a lot more on other things.
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: shiv on January 25, 2009, 10:41:28 PM
Well, that new atmosphere didn't fit FS universe well. I felt like playing non-FS game.
I prefer more FreeSpace atmosphere instead. With all three species including vasudans :P
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: Snail on January 25, 2009, 10:49:49 PM
IMO BP was excellent, in a different way.
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: peterv on January 26, 2009, 07:42:12 AM
I'll tell you wy there are not to many Vasudan fighters: Cockpits. If my bosses in ED won't let me add litle Vasudan dudes inside them i'll keep doing only Terran ones.
This is a serious statement. :pimp:
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: shiv on January 26, 2009, 09:40:38 AM
You may feel free to add cockipts for Vasudans in ED :D
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: Snail on January 26, 2009, 05:38:46 PM
Oi. Aren't you supposed to be doing Shivans? :P
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: shiv on January 26, 2009, 06:01:18 PM
I think that's internal matter, Snail :P
Title: Mods Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: CipNug on July 20, 2009, 10:14:40 PM
Could someone maybe add a bit of guide to this thread about all them common files and what naming conventions should be used for them and so on to avoid clashes when used in campaigns. Think Langly or Scrupus knows most about this stuff.
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: Mav on August 23, 2009, 02:12:08 AM
Hmm, should I ever get done creating the necessary models, I might try to make a campaign myself - actually I have a (only roughly detailed) background story since several years, and the FS-ships I'm modeling are thought for that storyline...

About a third to a quarter or so of the campaign should be told from the Vasudan side, though I admittedly haven't started on their ships yet :nervous: .
(needlessly to say, considering my sig, us' Shivans will also play a role a good deal of the time :devel: )

As for Shivan ships, I hope to continue my SB Inferno soon.

... and obviously, that campaign I'm thinking of is my view of the post-Capella storyline. Ahem - yap, guilty so to say :shaking: ;) .

And yep, it propably is too much for handling it alone (and I'd also need to create ships for at least 2 completely new species - *ugh* :shaking: ). But I don't feel like starting a team while I have yet so little done, also coordinating a team would take up a bit too much time for me currently, and additionally I do have some viewpoints implemented in the story-concept that many people might not like (e.g. Earth isn't necessarily well at the end of the campaign's story...) .
Though, that concept isn't exactly final yet.

Actually, I initially even wanted to make it a multi-side multiplayer campaign, but I now think that would likely cause a good deal TOO many branchings... :( - As well as propably spoiling some or even all surprises - it wouldn't exactly have been that great if you'd have played Shivans the first time you played FS, totally spoiling all mysteries; now would it?? ;) :biggrin1:

Anyway, as stated above I am nowhere near far enough for this to really be considered a project yet, so propably back on topic:



Yes, I too think that campaigns should keep both Shivans and Vasudans included in interesting ways.

Think about it - the thing that makes FS' story stand out is that the Shivans are NOT just evil swarmers flooding the galaxy and killing everyone else.
They DO cause lots of havoc, but that certainly isn't their main purpose, as both the ancient-cutscenes in FS1 and the "disappearing" of the Sathanas-fleet at the end of FS2 are showing, as well as the fact that humans&Vasudans could rise up at all after the Shivans already visited "known space" (sorry, I didn't want to connect this to Niven's book-series, but it seems to be the most fitting word), wiping out the ancients.

As for the Vasudans, they originally were enemies of the GTA in a very long-drawn war that was initially caused by cultural differences, so to say. AND they had those weird HoL-prophecies that somehow might connect them to the ancients.
So just using them as cannon-fodder-wingmen isn't really the best way to fit a story into the FS-universe, I'd guess...
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: Hades on August 23, 2009, 02:21:12 AM
Quote from: shiv;111315
Hey. About BluePlanet. It's a big shame that Darius forgot about the Vasudans.
It actually made sense that they didn't sortie any Vasudans through the Sol gate. There might be a poor reaction from the Terrans in Sol if they see Vasudans coming through.

Also, it is the Terran's homesystem, after all.
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: starlord on August 31, 2009, 06:49:36 PM
Hey mav, should you be interested, I suppose that some mods/campaigns could still like to use the nightmares... Unfortunately, their fleet needs a little expanding since the lost souls incident (what a shame!)...
Title: Mods - Vasudans and Shivans
Post by: Mav on September 06, 2009, 09:06:03 PM
Erm... sorry - I haven't played too many user-made missions yet; actually only a part of the Inferno campaign and something else that is so old I can't really remember it.
So - from what mod is that "lost souls incident"?


And well, ... Other than that, I think I know the ships that are called "Nightmares" around here (I've been on a lookout for ship downloads a long time, though not during the last years), and though they seem nice, I currently don't know where to fit them into my storyline.

Actually I already do have my own (well, somewhat) concepts in mind for my new species - the problem is that I'll need to model them first, and I currently don't have too many time & nerves left besides RL(tm) .





As for this "somewhat"... :
There are also some Volition-sketches that I'd like to implement, specifically those which are listed here (http://www.geocities.com/alpha_quadrant_project/index.html) as "GVF Sentait", "GTC Caucasus" and the "Vasudan Super Carrier" .
I just don't really like the way the first two are assigned and done there - especially the concept that is called "GVF Sentait" there, is, in my opinion, fitting to neither Terran, Vasudan nor Shivan design lines (basicly, it resembles a cross-over from a hawk and a squid...) . Which is why I'd want to use it for one of my additional species.

Do you eventually know where I could find pics of the other two versions of the "Sentait" that are mentioned there? It'd save me some time if I only had to retexture it, but Venom's version that is shown there is too stretched for my liking...

I recently finally got an idea for a carrier that might fit to it design-wise, but given the unique design of the "Sentait", it's somewhat hard to think of more ships that share this style.

My second new species should get a completely new style, at least for it's fighters (roughly after a hammerhead shark).
About the capships I'm not yet sure, but initially I had intended something resembling the Son'a ships from Star Trek 9 - I quite like these designs :) .

I also had thought of a single model for a third species, which would roughly cross avian features with the features of a swimming bear... now DON'T you laugh, it's only a crude description! ;)
Though seeing said bear in some documentary actually was the initial inspiration for the design, I admit :D .

And the Dragon2 from my littleSomthing-thread would actually be for a supplementary 4th species, with others possibly following sometime.






As for the "Caucasus", the model there does look good, it's just that I'd like to use it for a Shivan fighter...
But still, do you have any clues who made the model that's pictured there?



I think I remember seeing a development thread for a model of this Vasudan Super Carrier over on HLP at some point of time, but I didn't bookmark it and don't really know how it turned out in the end...





[/offtopic]
Oh well, sorry for that long answer, I didn't really intend for it to become that long. :(



.