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Hosted => Battlestar Galactica: Beyond the Red Line => Topic started by: Kyle_K_ski on April 05, 2008, 01:18:36 AM

Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Kyle_K_ski on April 05, 2008, 01:18:36 AM
Needless to say, this thread can't avoid spoilers galore, so after watching Episode 1 via Sci-Fi's website at noon, I was wondering what you all thought of the following:


---------------------------------------------
1. How is Starbuck able to determine which direction is Earth?
2. What accounts for the time discrepancy between her Viper's clock and the 2 month passage of "real" time?
3. How is it that her ship's logs are completely wiped?
4. How is it that she's in possession of a brand new Viper?
5. Do you think an internal debate/revolt is going to occur within the Cylon fleet now that one of their own (a Cylon Raider) has confirmed the existence of one of The Five Unknown Cylons?  In other words, is the discovery of one of The Five the main reason for why the Cylon fleet abandoned its near total victory?  It's interesting that we weren't presented with a picture of what was happening amidst the Cylon fleet in regards to the discovery.  I can't wait to see what it is in the future.  What does the presence of The Five amidst the human fleet mean to the Cylons--will it be seen as a good thing, or a bad one?
6. Is the president "correctly" interpreting the scriptures by using the nebula only as a "traffic sign" that's found along the route to Earth, or is Starbuck correct in trying to return the fleet to the nebula, or is the answer somewhere in between these two specified approaches?  If the latter, what could the "in between" path be?
7. I loved Baltar's reaction to his newly discovered and "forced upon" messianic role.  It certainly has some mild overtones of the classic comedy "Life of Brian" in it.  I suspect, though, that like it or not, Baltar is quickly learning just how serious this new role is, and not just for his own survival.  So, what role do you think the Cylons are playing in "assisting" him with these supposed "miracles," and more importantly, why?  I'm wondering if the importance of "one god" versus "many" is such a central thesis of belief amongst the Cylons, that they consider it an essential goal to convince humanity of it, but why would they even care to convert humans to such a tenant, when their ultimate aim is to wipe humanity out?  Unless it's a ploy to sew discord amongst the fleet, or if a unification of beliefs is a primary goal of the yet to be revealed Cylon?  
8. Arrrrrrrrrgh!  My brains hurt with all of the new revelations. That's it for now!
---------------------------------------------

Yours,
Kyle
April 4, 2008

:D
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Angreifer on April 05, 2008, 03:12:16 AM
All I know for certain is, my head's about to frakking explode from all the questions I have.

[spoiler]
However, a possible answer for the time discrepancy with Kara is the relativity of time. If she were moving extremely fast, it's very possible that months could go by for the fleet in the space of hours for her. This theory, in my opinion, is supported by the blur that goes by Lee's Viper right before he sees Kara.
[/spoiler]
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: guitarfan01 on April 05, 2008, 03:18:24 AM
Angriefer has a point with the relativity of time.  All I have to say is that I trust RDM and his crew to answer the questions and that the part where
[spoiler]Tigh shot Admiral Adama in the head[/spoiler] was awesome.  Even though I knew it was probably a fake-out, I was still entirely emotionally involved.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Canadian on April 05, 2008, 03:26:23 AM
All I have to say is that the Devs have a lot of Freding to do.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Shootout on April 05, 2008, 04:16:48 AM
Quote from: guitarfan01;96078
Angriefer has a point with the relativity of time.  All I have to say is that I trust RDM and his crew to answer the questions and that the part where
[spoiler]Tigh shot Admiral Adama in the head[/spoiler] was awesome.  Even though I knew it was probably a fake-out, I was still entirely emotionally involved.


I am not ashamed to say that I completely lost it for a moment there.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Sparky on April 05, 2008, 05:26:34 AM
Quote from: Angreifer;96077
All I know for certain is, my head's about to frakking explode from all the questions I have.

[spoiler]
However, a possible answer for the time discrepancy with Kara is the relativity of time. If she were moving extremely fast, it's very possible that months could go by for the fleet in the space of hours for her. This theory, in my opinion, is supported by the blur that goes by Lee's Viper right before he sees Kara.
[/spoiler]


[spoiler]Or perhaps increased mass.  Time passes much slower near massive objects such as Neutron Stars and Black holes.  Maybe Starbuck gained a lot of weight, went to Earth and back, and then lost it again on the Apollo diet.  Just an Idea...[/spoiler]
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Blue Lion on April 05, 2008, 06:02:53 AM
What is up with all the hot women on this show?
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: docfu on April 05, 2008, 06:42:07 AM
Quote from: Blue Lion;96087
What is up with all the hot women on this show?


First reply:

It took you 3 seasons plus the mini series and razor to realize this?

Second reply:

Quit asking stupid questions...
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Turey on April 05, 2008, 06:56:21 AM
[spoiler]WHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTT THE FUCK. It's so cruel to end the episode on that note.

Anyway, I'm actually more interested in the Final 4 plotline than in the Starbuck plotline. I can't wait to see what happens with them now that the Cylons know where they are and can use the raiders/centurions to find out which ones they are.[/spoiler]
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: wiley on April 05, 2008, 07:07:03 AM
Quote from: Turey;96089
[spoiler]WHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTT THE FUCK. It's so cruel to end the episode on that note.

Anyway, I'm actually more interested in the Final 4 plotline than in the Starbuck plotline. I can't wait to see what happens with them now that the Cylons know where they are and can use the raiders/centurions to find out which ones they are.[/spoiler]


Spoiler for 4x02
[spoiler]Based on preview for next episode, it seems that the cavil Cylon is labotomizing the raiders. I speculate this is because they now know the five are among the fleet and perhaps the raiders will not fire upon them.[/spoiler]
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: karajorma on April 05, 2008, 07:21:53 AM
Why all the spoiler tags guys? You don't need them in this thread unless you're actually in possession of knowledge of what will happen in 4x02.

For instance like Wiley FAILED to do properly with his post.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: wiley on April 05, 2008, 07:25:05 AM
From what I understand 4x01 does not air in the UK until April 15th.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: karajorma on April 05, 2008, 07:32:16 AM
If you're foolish enough to come onto the 4x01 thread and get spoiled you only have yourself to blame. The whole point of the spoiler threads is to allow people to discuss the episode openly without it leaking out everywhere else on the board.

That doesn't mean open spoilers for 4x02 (or even unlabelled ones, as yours was). Those must be signposted properly.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: wiley on April 05, 2008, 07:33:32 AM
sorry
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: karajorma on April 05, 2008, 07:39:59 AM
That's okay, it usually takes a few episodes for people to get the hang of how the Speculation and Discussion threads work but when everyone does follow them the system works pretty well.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Herra Tohtori on April 05, 2008, 08:50:49 AM
Holy Hell, that was an awesome starter for the season, an evil cliffhanger to end it with, and full of Win and Gold.

Stuff I Liked Especially:

-The combat scenes at the beginning. Lots of stuff to ogle at, Cylon splatter on windscreen (I want to see that in BtRL) and the Eye Contact.
-"Never Felt Better". Epic...
-Final Four's situation in general...
-Gaius. Only you could end up in that kind of... situation as your only resort of finding living quarters. Do you feel God's presence yet?:lol:

Stuff that was just standard BSG awesome:

-Kara's storyline - nothing seems to add up, we have no way to know what the frak is going on and while that's okay, the explanations I can think of for this storyline are all some sort of deus ex machinas. Time discrepancy, new Viper and no nav data all seem to point to some sort of intervention by someone and something, and the writers need to pull something really great out of their asses to make any sense in this. Though they have done it before, so all hope is not lost...
-The God stuff in general. Gaius' reactions and interaction itself was hilarious for most part, but the religious stuff just irks me. At least the Jesus Beard is finally gone.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: newman on April 05, 2008, 10:48:44 AM
"Kara Thrace? I'm special agent Mulder, this is agent Scully, we're with the FBI. We'd like to talk to you about your last flight.."
 
-bonus DVD, extra scene that was cut :D
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Kyle_K_ski on April 05, 2008, 11:06:44 AM
I'm confident that the one person who knows far more about Baltar's ability to perform miracles is the Cylon in his head.  Just look at how they setup the shot where he's holding the now-healed boy, and looming behind him is the Cylon in Red.  I'm fairly sure that however they ultimately address the two Great Religions, that it'll take on a more believable stance than simply "god(s) did it..."  I hope it does, anyway.  

I have to wonder about what else "Baltar's Head Cylon" knows.  Is there a real line of communication being transmitted between a Cylon and Baltar's brain, or is she a construct of Baltar's mind?  And if that's the case, what does that mean for Baltar?  After all, they've never explained how he survived the nuclear blast in Episode 1.  I really feel that once we receive the answer to that event, it'll play a pivotal role in understanding who the mysterious un-named third party player is.  And is the force behind saving his life the same force that saved/assisted in Kara's fantastic voyage?  

It's been established that The Four have virtually no clue as to what's going on, but I'm guessing that The Fifth knows a lot about what's going on, and may even be the Puppet Master, or has a pretty good idea who/what the Puppet Master is.

So much left to explain, and only 9 episodes left to go!

:)
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: newman on April 05, 2008, 11:13:45 AM
Quote from: Kyle_K_ski;96114

So much left to explain, and only 9 episodes left to go!

:)


19 actually.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Kyle_K_ski on April 05, 2008, 11:29:01 AM
"19?"  I thought that I read somewhere that they had only 10 to go?  Or was production halted at 10 due to the writers' strike, or...?  

Now I'm stumped as to why the number 10 is so huge in my mind in regards to BSG!  :confused:

Please help!  :lol:
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: newman on April 05, 2008, 11:38:13 AM
Only season 1 had less then 20 episodes. You can see a list of all episodes here (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0407362/episodes), though it'll need to be updated as season 4 progresses. The confusion is probably due to the fact that they only had written material for half of the season due to the writer's strike. Now that it's over, you can expect all 20 to air.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: docfu on April 05, 2008, 03:01:51 PM
Out of curiousity is season 4 supposed to play right through or are they going to take a break for summer?
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: TESLA on April 05, 2008, 03:10:34 PM
not sure how its going to work out cause of the writers strike, they kind of had a long break already :biggrin1::D

Could be simply breaking up season four into two mini seasons, leaving us with the mother of all cliffhangers mid-season.

Though I think season two had the best mid-season cliffhanger you could get.....:yes:
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Fairchild on April 05, 2008, 03:16:30 PM
how can there be an unused portion of galactica? With all those refugees running around, how can there possibly be a section of living space not taken up by someone.
If it is for security, then how did they get in?
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: TESLA on April 05, 2008, 03:26:28 PM
where there's a will, there's a way :naughty:
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: David cgc on April 05, 2008, 03:51:41 PM
Quote from: Fairchild;96129
how can there be an unused portion of galactica? With all those refugees running around, how can there possibly be a section of living space not taken up by someone.
If it is for security, then how did they get in?


It's a very large ship Just one flight pod has more than twice the space of a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier, which has a crew of 5,700. There are probably plenty of nooks in the ship that aren't used for whatever reason.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Lepton on April 05, 2008, 03:52:05 PM
I was pretty disappointed with the episode.  The dialog seemed a bit week.  The acting seemed a bit stilted.  There also seemed to me to be a complete lack of the same tight, personal, near claustrophobic cinematography that the show seems noted for.  The CIC never seemed so large and the memorial hall area seemed very large whereas in the past it's always seemed rather confined and oppressive.

That said, I do not find this Final five business compelling in the least.  I don't give a crap about Anders or that other chick.  The Chief is cool and I don't want him to be a Cylon as that tints all his activism and his choices.  That he loved Boomer now merely becomes Cylon on Cylon and no big deal.  I also refuse to understand how Tigh can be a Cylon.  Didn't he fight in the first Cylon war with Adama?  He's too old to have been a skinjob Cylon from the beginning as we remember the Cylons developed their own biological models.  So either the human Tigh must have been replaced at some point by a skinjob, or the Final Five are some completely different type of Cylon that bear no resemblance to the biological Cylons.

I also find the Messianic Baltar storyline to be pretty ridiculous.   The Christ parallels are obvious and I have always been fearful that the show is a mere front for some kind of Christian doctrine, wherein the fleet/humanity is like some wandering tribe of Judea being guided/assaulted by an Old Testament vengeful God, eventually to be transmogrified into some sort of Love/Unity/Christ sacrifice storyline.  Obviously, the writers have been screwing with religion, faith, etc, but in the end I fear the dominant Judeo/Christian paradigm will prevail.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Roy Fokker on April 05, 2008, 03:58:23 PM
Wow, talk about a unique view, Lepton.

While I disagree completely on almost... hell - on everything you wrote, I can only say I'm sorry you're not enjoying it like the rest of us.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Lepton on April 05, 2008, 04:25:21 PM
As for an example of the stilted dialog and acting, the President saying to Lee and the Admiral, "How do you know she is not playing you?  How do you know she is not playing YOU?"  Those lines fell totally flat and were poorly delivered and totally unnecessary.  And "playing you"??  When has Rossalyn even spoken like that?  She might have said, "How do we know that we can trust her?", but "playing you"???  That seemed totally uncharacteristic and quippy.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Slamscape on April 05, 2008, 04:32:35 PM
Anyone else notice how Kara's Viper suddenly has her callsign and markings on it, when it didn't at the end of season 3
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Elthis on April 05, 2008, 04:40:56 PM
I had  a question regarding Tigh as well.

As I was watching all the series during the Sci Fi marathon, Tigh had a flashback to some earlier point in his career where he had been confined to his quarters for whatever drunkedness he had done at the time.

In this flash back, Tigh had brownish hair and had more of it than he does now. I believe that he was younger in that flashback.

Which leads to my question...

If Tigh is a Cylon and he had a flashback to where he was younger, does that mean that the skinjobs age?

Or does it mean that Lepton was right in his theory that there was once a human Tigh but he was replaced at some point by a Cylon counterpart?
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Elthis on April 05, 2008, 04:47:10 PM
Also, in regards to Starbucks whereabouts....

I thought the whole thing had a Bermuda Triangle feel to it.

The whole loss of time, being unable to explain how she got such a great distance and such.

It would be wild to think that the Bermuda Triangle is a worm-hole that bridges Earth and some other point in space.

Not really probable but it kind of made me laugh inside.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Roy Fokker on April 05, 2008, 04:49:17 PM
Quote from: Lepton;96139
As for an example of the stilted dialog and acting, the President saying to Lee and the Admiral, "How do you know she is not playing you?  How do you know she is not playing YOU?"  Those lines fell totally flat and were poorly delivered and totally unnecessary.  And "playing you"??  When has Rossalyn even spoken like that?  She might have said, "How do we know that we can trust her?", but "playing you"???  That seemed totally uncharacteristic and quippy.


She has said "Thank you Apollo, for saving our collective a$ses" in the miniseries... I don't believe Roslyn has a characteristic way of expressing herself.

And that particular line... the first part is "you" in general, refers to Adama and the people around him. Then she changes the emphasis to YOU, suggesting that Starbuck may be playing oh his sympathies for her and trying to persuade him. That was a good line and absolutely not "unnecessary".

On the other hand, "How do we know that we can trust her?" is as cliche as it gets. I think it has been spoken in every lousy war/action/scifi/noir/whatever script this side of Casablanca.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: David cgc on April 05, 2008, 05:22:55 PM
Quote from: Elthis;96141

If Tigh is a Cylon and he had a flashback to where he was younger, does that mean that the skinjobs age?


It certainly means that Saul Tigh ages. Whether that's a standard feature, or something they can turn on and off, or what remains to be seen.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: guitarfan01 on April 05, 2008, 05:55:52 PM
We also know that the Saul Tigh model can lose eyeballs.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Enki on April 05, 2008, 06:38:14 PM
Quote from: David cgc;96148
It certainly means that Saul Tigh ages. Whether that's a standard feature, or something they can turn on and off, or what remains to be seen.


I'm long-term on record believing the Final Five are Ancient and fundamentally different. Like Kobol Ancient and did something to bury their personas for awhile.  Skinjobs are new in comparison.

My other speculation is that the Five are responsible for the first Cylon War indirectly and somewhat inadvertently. Then after a split, the mechanicals decided they wanted more like the Five, hence experiments to create the skinjobs. There's more to that potential plotline, but it ends with the Five now trying to fix the problem they created and end the War, reuniting Humanity and Cylons as was in the Golden Age of Kobol.

We might not ever find out for sure and if we don't get any blatant contradictions to this it could make for some good fan-fiction starting points.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Angelus on April 05, 2008, 06:38:50 PM
Quote from: Lepton;96135

I also refuse to understand how Tigh can be a Cylon.  Didn't he fight in the first Cylon war with Adama?  He's too old to have been a skinjob Cylon from the beginning as we remember the Cylons developed their own biological models.  So either the human Tigh must have been replaced at some point by a skinjob, or the Final Five are some completely different type of Cylon that bear no resemblance to the biological Cylons.


They didn't fight together in the first war.
They know each other for about 35 years. The first Cylon war ended 40 years ago.
RDM said, non of the models is 'based' on a real human being, means there was no Boomer or Tigh human, which the Cylons used as template.


Quote from: Slamscape;96140
Anyone else notice how Kara's Viper suddenly has her callsign and markings on it, when it didn't at the end of season 3


Yeah, in the intro you see the Viper without any markings, later you see the Viper with all that stuff.

Far more interresting is: the ship doesn't have a single scratch ( besides the gallon of Cylon Blood on the Canopy )!!! I'ts completly new! Will be intersting to see, where the hell did Starbuck get a new Viper, why is no data in the ship ( nav ) computer?
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Star Dragon on April 05, 2008, 07:03:52 PM
Quote from: Angelus;96175
They didn't fight together in the first war.
They know each other for about 35 years. The first Cylon war ended 40 years ago.
RDM said, non of the models is 'based' on a real human being, means there was no Boomer or Tigh human, which the Cylons used as template.


It's quite possible RDM is lying (again). And people will love it and heap more praise regardless...

I used to really like the show, now I just like seeing it all go to hell.

Here's my review on another site (So I don't have to type it all again...)

It's obvious...

 Nebula storm leads to great storm on JUPITER (Hence name "Eye of Jupiter", rolls eyes) kara drifted to Earth wakes up, takes pics and plots a reverse course. Storm takes her back to nebula. DUH...
(personal pet peeve, get your mythology straight, Jupiter is the Roman name for Zues. It should have been the eye of Zues, The Colonials don't know felgercarb about Roman Gods...)

  Either the wormhole or the ship of lights caused the time distortion, and also made her viper go back in time to when it was new (notice Tyrol said it was HER viper but brand new, everything pristine and blank - except the gun cameras) typical mindfrak SOL stuff -TOS

Remember when Apollo, Sheba, and Starbuck were eating dinner and start sputtering the Course and planetary description of Earth to everyone at the table retelling their story, hypnotic suggestion by the ancients.

Also it could be a separate NEW viper given to her by SOL.

Now the tricky part: Did her ship blow up and she got saved by Ship Of Lights (with Canon memory loss, TOS), or the shocker...

LEE is a fraking Cylon and "imagined her death", heavy raider playing mojo with his head... (and hacking his gun camera maybe)?


Roslin just needs to fraking lay down and die already, I am so sick of that bitch. Starbuck needs to hurry up, say nothing and just empty that whole clip into her and THEN say "The Prophesy of Pithya is fulfilled... Word! Now we're going to Earth!"

The shit is hitting the fan more than ever and now Lee is going to work for the government??? WTF (RDM get off the crack PLEASE!)


What kind of unrealistic bullshit is this? The Colonial RTF are closer than they've ever been in space combat to complete annihilation and Lee thinks he needs a time out to go find himself NOW? He had a chance to do that before in that Raptor near death. Seriously has the writing gone completely out the window cause he doesn't have another season to fix this with?

Dear dead Billy, by the Lords of Kobol PLEASE come back and save us!!! :lol:

I almost yelled with delight when that dream sequence Tigh shot Adama in the head! "Yeah bitch I'm a Cylon! Oh shit! Y2K made me do it I swear!!!"

heh
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Enki on April 05, 2008, 07:06:04 PM
Quote from: Angelus;96175
Far more interresting is: the ship doesn't have a single scratch ( besides the gallon of Cylon Blood on the Canopy )!!! I'ts completly new! Will be intersting to see, where the hell did Starbuck get a new Viper, why is no data in the ship ( nav ) computer?

Props group partied too much and forgot to paint on the dings and scratches after they drove a forklift through the original model. :lol:

While the paramedics were working on the director, McDonnell said to Olmos  "Frak it Ed, let's just ad lib and see where it goes."  Olmos muttered something about aliens while glaring at RDM and then said "At least it's not another shaving scene..."  In the background, Callis shifted uneasily.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: karajorma on April 05, 2008, 07:24:29 PM
Quote from: Star Dragon;96178
(personal pet peeve, get your mythology straight, Jupiter is the Roman name for Zues. It should have been the eye of Zues, The Colonials don't know felgercarb about Roman Gods...)


:lol: Oh you really are setting yourself up for a fall with that statement. :D
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Angelus on April 05, 2008, 07:46:57 PM
Quote from: Enki;96179
Props group partied too much and forgot to paint on the dings and scratches after they drove a forklift through the original model. :lol:

While the paramedics were working on the director, McDonnell said to Olmos  "Frak it Ed, let's just ad lib and see where it goes."  Olmos muttered something about aliens while glaring at RDM and then said "At least it's not another shaving scene..."  In the background, Callis shifted uneasily.


:lol:

or maybe:
right after the scene where they checked the Viper:
Adama: so, it's REALLY a new ship?
Roslin: i tell ya, she's a Cylon
Chief: either that, or the guy who did the CGI screwed up...
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: wiley on April 05, 2008, 08:03:40 PM
Starbuck seems to accurately describe earth, including the Sun, Moon, Saturn and most likely Polaris (trinary star system) or the north star. Was there any description that detailed  in the scriptures or ancient record. I don't remember.

In any case kara is going to have to appeal to laura's spritual side to convince her.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Rogue420 on April 05, 2008, 08:22:57 PM
---------------------------------------------

2. What accounts for the time discrepancy between her Viper's clock and the 2 month passage of "real" time?

Wormhole or something like that.

3. How is it that her ship's logs are completely wiped?

magnetic field?

5. Do you think an internal debate/revolt is going to occur within the Cylon fleet now that one of their own (a Cylon Raider) has confirmed the existence of one of The Five Unknown Cylons? In other words, is the discovery of one of The Five the main reason for why the Cylon fleet abandoned its near total victory? It's interesting that we weren't presented with a picture of what was happening amidst the Cylon fleet in regards to the discovery. I can't wait to see what it is in the future. What does the presence of The Five amidst the human fleet mean to the Cylons--will it be seen as a good thing, or a bad one?

I think that since Cavel said that he won't stop lobotomizing the raiders, my guess is that the raiders refuse to attack the RTF or something. See thoughts on this here http://www.game-warden.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5749


7. I loved Baltar's reaction to his newly discovered and "forced upon" messianic role. It certainly has some mild overtones of the classic comedy "Life of Brian" in it. I suspect, though, that like it or not, Baltar is quickly learning just how serious this new role is, and not just for his own survival. So, what role do you think the Cylons are playing in "assisting" him with these supposed "miracles," and more importantly, why? I'm wondering if the importance of "one god" versus "many" is such a central thesis of belief amongst the Cylons, that they consider it an essential goal to convince humanity of it, but why would they even care to convert humans to such a tenant, when their ultimate aim is to wipe humanity out? Unless it's a ploy to sew discord amongst the fleet, or if a unification of beliefs is a primary goal of the yet to be revealed Cylon?

Not sure how I feel about this storyline yet.



8. Arrrrrrrrrgh! My brains hurt with all of the new revelations.
Word!!!!!

Hopefully this peace craze will blow over soon or I fear that the time of awesome space battles is nearing an end.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Adalla on April 05, 2008, 08:29:56 PM
My 2 cents regarding 401.

401 is the start of the "divine" in Battlestar Galactica. The divine will be more and more present I believe, until it culminates with the ending of the show.

Baltar's new role as Jesus, I dont quite understand it, because IMO he's the Final Cylon. But then it makes sense in a way, because in my theory, the Final Five's role is to bring Cylons and Humans together, to peace. They are "priests" after all, holy in a way, worshipping the one who cannot be named (Temple of Five stuff).

So, having said that, everything to do with Starbuck shouts "divine intervention". So people trying to explain what happened to her realistically, I think they are on the wrong path.

Kara did see that white light shine on her face just as she was about to die, and she DID die. And the theory I like most, is that Kara is actually a Lord of Kobol, if I am to believe these beings actually existed. And if they dont exist (like Six and Baltar suggest) and only one true God exists, then in that case Kara is simply an Angel sent by God to lead the Cylons to Earth. Yes, I said Cylons, because that's what the Hybrid Prophecy says in Razor. It says they'll be lead to the promised land (they, the Seven) on the wings of an angel. Well...with the little figurine, the Goddess Aurora one, with the angels...and Kara trying to lead them to earth...Kara has to be that angel.

Either way, I really really dont believe Kara is the Finaly Cylon. Though, if Baltar is not the Final Cylon, then she certainly is.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Solo on April 05, 2008, 08:38:39 PM
Hmm, all these ideas you have are very interesting..

But remember this: "All of this has happened before, and will happen again."
I have a feeling, that this will be the key to the whole story.
Awesome episode!! Can't wait to see the next..
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Angelus on April 05, 2008, 08:42:01 PM
Why did the Raider 'scan' Anders in first place? They usually shoot and don't ask questions.
Did he has the order to do so? Scan all Pilots of the Galactica. A bit odd, during a fight, since the Cylons can't expect that the Colonial Viper pilots are waiting 'till the Raider has finished his scan before they shoot.
 
Who gave the order? Except Deanna none of the skinjobs has a big interest in who the final 5 are. Deanna is still boxed, unless the female Cylon with the 2 Centurions in the ep 2 trailer was her...
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: David cgc on April 05, 2008, 08:45:33 PM
Quote from: Star Dragon;96178
It's quite possible RDM is lying (again). And people will love it and heap more praise regardless...

I cite Joe Straczynski's opinion on the subject, (http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-2594) written after a fan called him on saying something on-line about Babylon 5's backstory that later turned out to be false in order to preserve the surprise.

Quote
Nebula storm leads to great storm on JUPITER (Hence name "Eye of Jupiter", rolls eyes) kara drifted to Earth wakes up, takes pics and plots a reverse course. Storm takes her back to nebula. DUH...
(personal pet peeve, get your mythology straight, Jupiter is the Roman name for Zues. It should have been the eye of Zues, The Colonials don't know felgercarb about Roman Gods...)

Actually, much as we do in the modern day, they seem to use them interchangeably. Consider the fact that the Pegasus is a Mercury-class Battlestar, and that in "Occupation," Roslin mentioned in her journal that it was Mars day. Also, they'd originally called it the Eye of Zeus in the script, but changed it to Eye of Jupiter at the last minute because it "sounded better."

By the way, I wonder why exactly Kara saw the landmarks she did. I mean, other than Earth, the sun, and the moon. She also visited Alpha Centuari, an unknown comet, and Saturn (which she mistakenly seems to believe is at Alpha Centauri. It's gonna be a long trip to Earth). Those are almost, but not quite, helpful.

Quote
What kind of unrealistic bullshit is this? The Colonial RTF are closer than they've ever been in space combat to complete annihilation and Lee thinks he needs a time out to go find himself NOW?
Is Lee really that good? Really? Enough to tip the balance in what has become now the annual cylon/human dogfight? So much so that, even with more vipers than they can logically store and recruitment going at such a pace that everyone in the Fleet will probably be a qualified viper jock by the time they get to Earth, he can't possibly be allowed to retire? They've actually been far worse off, and they let people leave then.

Quote from: Angelus;96196
Why did the Raider 'scan' Anders in first place? They usually shoot and don't ask questions.
Did he has the order to do so? Scan all Pilots of the Galactica. A bit odd, during a fight, since the Cylons can't expect that the Colonial Viper pilots are waiting 'till the Raider has finished his scan before they shoot.

I think Anders told it to. He was concentrating on trying to kill it pretty hard when it turned around to check him out. It's possible that, in his newly active state, he was able to send some sort of telepathic message to it. Just enough to make the Raider come to attention and see what was up.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Sparky on April 05, 2008, 09:01:31 PM
Quote from: wiley;96187
Starbuck seems to accurately describe earth, including the Sun, Moon, Saturn and most likely Polaris (trinary star system) or the north star.


I thought she was describing the Alpha Centari system.  Both a trinary star system and only 4 lightyears and change away from us.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Solo on April 05, 2008, 09:12:11 PM
I just realized that there are two cylon/human hybrids now.. Hera, and the Chief's son, Nicholas.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: wiley on April 05, 2008, 09:28:07 PM
Quote from: Sparky;96204
I thought she was describing the Alpha Centari system.  Both a trinary star system and only 4 lightyears and change away from us.


Could be, Alpha Centauri is closer to earth than Polaris (300ly) but Polaris is much more easily observed from earth than Alpha Centauri. Withou a high powered telescope you cant tell its a trinary system, the north star (Polaris) is observable from earth and perhaps from orbit the naked eye would be able to detect it as a trinary system. Navigators have been using it for centuries. There are other trinary systems, but not as close as those two. Maybe with the viper's sensors she would have been able to detect Alpha Centauri as a trinary system.

The comet? You got me, could be anything. Also all of the gas giants have rings but Saturn's are obviously the most prominent.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: macgeek96 on April 05, 2008, 10:51:16 PM
Good episode, that chick who brought Baltar in to shave is one bad ass.  Anyway... you know when the exo had that almost vision of him shooting the admiral... I think that that was the time when all the other cylons cracked, they got switched on, and did their respective duties. ie. killing people.  But the reason why Tigh didn't shoot Adama was because he decided that he was human, even though he was made by Cylons.  When he was going out of that room with the other cylons, when they had just realized what they were, right after the start of the cylon attack in the nebula, he made that seech about still being a colonial officer.  I think that made the difference.  The vision could also  have been Tigh imagining himself shooting Adama, scared of the fact that he was a cylon.
The coolest part though was when the Raider scanned the viper, recognized a cylon, and broke off the whole attack.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Kyle_K_ski on April 05, 2008, 11:50:53 PM
Rogue420,

I just reread the thread you listed.  Wow, it's been sometime since I read it, and considering that the first part of the rumored spoilers regarding what's going to happen with the Cylons were true (Anders' viper getting scanned and the battle being called off), the rest of it seems all the more plausible now.  I'm not going to go through the trouble of reposting the portion of the thread that I'm talking about, but suffice it to say, those of you who are interested get ready for some major possible spoilers in regards to what's going to happen during this last season.  Just look for the reply posted by Werthead...

If what's stated there is going to happen, that'll be some major interesting developments.  If that does happen, I hope that they thoroughly explain...

SPOILER
-----------------------------------------------------
Why there's a fissure between the Cylons to begin with.  I can understand genuine disagreements occurring between them when consulting each other on how to best wipe out humanity, but if Werthead's spoilers are true, then how could there be such an enormous difference between the philosophical underpinnings of The Five and the rest of the skinjobs?
-----------------------------------------------------
Title: great episode
Post by: MatthewPapa on April 06, 2008, 12:29:19 AM
This was a great episode, but it leaves us with more questions than answers

Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Sidestep on April 06, 2008, 12:40:52 AM
Just watching now, writing during the titles. And before I read all these posts..

It's a hell of a good start.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: David cgc on April 06, 2008, 12:48:05 AM
Quote from: MatthewPapa;96221

Is it possible that starbuck's vision is a complete diversion? That was kind of hinted on Razor from what the hybrid said. Surely Lee and Adama will eventually remember that exchange


They probably won't, since the Hybrid prevented Shaw from telling anyone, because he was kind of a dick.

However, in several of the season 4 trailers [spoiler]we see one of the normal baseship hybrids tell Starbuck the exact same thing the first Hybrid said to her face.[/spoiler]
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: TripRussell on April 06, 2008, 01:20:50 AM
Quote from: Angelus;96182
:lol:

or maybe:
right after the scene where they checked the Viper:
Adama: so, it's REALLY a new ship?
Roslin: i tell ya, she's a Cylon
Chief: either that, or the guy who did the CGI screwed up...
LOL!!  nice!
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: docfu on April 06, 2008, 02:18:01 AM
I think the writers worked really hard at making a series thats gonna keep us watching, whether or not we decided we like it, for the rest of the year. So in that sense, we really don't have a choice...
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Sidestep on April 06, 2008, 10:57:56 AM
It will be interesting to see how the Four act now that they know they are Cylons.

From the first episode it may be that they end up unwittingly helping the Cylons by overcompensating. They will be trying their best to prove to themselves and everyone around them they are still the loyal humans they thought they were and may end up being over zealous, such as Tigh trying to get Starbuck killed.

Or maybe they will be worried that Starbuck knows who they are, although after her comments to Anders that may not be the case!
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: nervouspete on April 06, 2008, 12:12:39 PM
Hey folks!

Cracking episode I thought, and not having a TV I couldn't wait here in the UK for it to be shown so I... er. *Cough*

Well, at least I've bought all the box sets and Razor thus far. Phew, conscience absolved. Ish.

Anyway! A highly compelling episode and a tremendous space battle. Nice. Interestingly I suddenly realised that Lee going into government might not be the usual wishy-washy 'finding himself' guff we expect of him. Both him and Anders seem to be the only people convinced that Starbuck is Starbuck. They've recognised that Laura is the prime mover in the 'Starbuck a Cylon' camp. If Lee gets into government and manages to sideline Laura, he can swing people around to Starbuck's side. Perhaps Anders was also thinking of the plan before Starbuck clocked him one.

Of course, my reasoning has flaws.
A: It would take time for Lee to consolidate his position. This would rely on Starbuck not doing anything fracking stupid in the meantime. Yes. I know.
B: The time taken would render it a moot point due to Starbuck being taken away from Earth with every jump.

Maybe Lee is going for the position because he feels Laura is becoming remorselessly more and more wrong with every crisis?

Also, I suspect that the seven models aren't entirely in control. They're threatened by two different types of Cylon. The hunter-killer varients like the centurions and the raiders, and the hybrids who actually control the ships. Could the hunter-killers develop some sort of programming whiplash and go all screwey with their contradictory 'kill humans/spare humans' orders? Will they become angry and determine to wipe out humanity regardless, which is not entirely the seven models' plan, and thus see the fleshy ones as flawed and endevour to wipe them out? Could mean civil war. Or it could be the other way with the Cavil model after killing and other models after truce. Whichever way, I reckon a cylon civil war is going to be a factor in this season. One that is resolved very quickly and leads to cylon refugees with the fleet for added dramatic fun.

The 'triple flashing star' thing could be a being of light (haven't watched any of the original series apart from the pilot, so not really sure) or it could be an Earth communications satelite.  

Basically I just want a happy ending for Tigh. *Sigh* It's not going to happen, is it?
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Tedward01 on April 06, 2008, 03:52:30 PM
with regard to anders and the cylon abort, perhaps he THOUGHT the raider not to shoot at whoever that was it was tailing, the raider recieved the mesage, looked at him, anders wished they would leave, and that raider obeyed the order, relayed it to the fleet, which would inheritly obey orders from skinjobs/final five

In term's of starbuck's viper, perhaps the people of earth found her ship, redid the bofywork, and then sent her on her way, but KO'd her with gas or something
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Crixx on April 06, 2008, 04:08:01 PM
I reckon all questions raised by this episode are somehow related to Baltar's boob-fondling.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: karajorma on April 06, 2008, 05:01:24 PM
One thing I did notice. We still don't have any proof at all that the basestars that appeared have anything to do with the 7 known Cylon models and their search for Galactica.

One of the characters even mentioned that they didn't understand how the Cylons could have followed them.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Angreifer on April 06, 2008, 05:12:53 PM
Quote from: karajorma;96324
One thing I did notice. We still don't have any proof at all that the basestars that appeared have anything to do with the 7 known Cylon models and their search for Galactica.

One of the characters even mentioned that they didn't understand how the Cylons could have followed them.


True that. Will be very interesting to get a look inside the Cylon camp again, as we've very much only got half the story. I can't help but feel that the Raiders are getting a little more intelligent than they were supposed to.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Sidestep on April 06, 2008, 05:13:41 PM
Quote from: karajorma;96324
One thing I did notice. We still don't have any proof at all that the basestars that appeared have anything to do with the 7 known Cylon models and their search for Galactica.

One of the characters even mentioned that they didn't understand how the Cylons could have followed them.


Cue shifty looks from the Tigh and Tory...
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Angelus on April 06, 2008, 05:20:28 PM
Quote from: karajorma;96324
One thing I did notice. We still don't have any proof at all that the basestars that appeared have anything to do with the 7 known Cylon models and their search for Galactica.

One of the characters even mentioned that they didn't understand how the Cylons could have followed them.



Hm, 'till episode 3x19 ( Crossroads pt I ) the Cylons followed them by tracing a unusual Radiation signature of the Tylium refinery ship. In the episode 5 Baseships jumped right on top of Racetracks Raptor.
Iirc, Apollo had the plan that this ship is splitting up from the fleet, covered with some Raptors and jump to other location then the RTF.
Dunno if they executed this plan, but at least the Radiation thing seems to be fixed, since Adama mentioned it.

In 4x01 there are only 4 Baseships, this could mean the Cylons ( mostly Cavil, since he seems to be the only one who wants the humans dead - yesterday if possible )have increased the amount of ships searching for the RTF.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: TripRussell on April 06, 2008, 06:01:09 PM
Did anyone noticed the Viper Mk II got cleaned, and perhaps waxed, up for the fight?  Excluding Starbuck's viper, you got Seelix, Anders, and perhaps few others..
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Prutus on April 06, 2008, 07:36:42 PM
Yea, I noticed it, and was thinking that them were bit too new looking. Was thinking like: What?? has adama stored some reserve from the start? but then I noticed small hit on one vipers tail.

Anders and chief have been thinking about themselfs and waxed the vipers on XOs orders.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: David cgc on April 06, 2008, 07:58:50 PM
On the other hand, it's been well over three months since the last Cylon contact (not counting the heavy raider which may or may not have existed in "Maelstrom"). Maybe that gave the deck crew enough time to start giving the Vipers a little extra TLC.

That also reminds me of a fun little visual oddity in the hangar scene. The prop Mark VII was still duck egg blue, as it had been painted for Razor (for some reason), but the CGI Mark VII just a few feet down from it was the same old bluish gray.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: KewlToyZ on April 06, 2008, 08:03:24 PM
Don't forget the fact that while they had Pegasus, they were doing Viper production from the Scar episode. That was why they were there mining the ore to build more Vipers. Just intersting they would spend time on MkII's instead of MkVII's...
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: David cgc on April 06, 2008, 08:10:49 PM
Who says they were? The Pegasus probably didn't even have the tooling necessary to build Mark II Vipers.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Wolfy on April 06, 2008, 10:02:04 PM
For all we know, not all the MKII Vipers where always used. Maybe some have only been used a few times. Maybe some pilots decideing they prefer to fly the MKVII without the CNP. Also renember ALOT of pilots where kiled off right near the start of series one, after Flattop makes his 1000's landing with the explosion in the hanger. Which is why they hadto recruit new piots, but i bet they never got enough to use all the vipers, the ressult would be some vipers not being used so often, espeically seeming pilots seem to get an attachment for specific vipers..

The ressult would be that the new rookies, like Anders and Seelix would get cleaner, less used vipers.

As for the MK VII, ive not seen 4x01 yet, but during season 3 the viper used in CGI wasnt the same as the prop viper, we could consider the colour and differences in shapes as minor differences in batches or running out of paint
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: THE Phreak on April 06, 2008, 10:25:49 PM
Quote from: David cgc;96348
Who says they were? The Pegasus probably didn't even have the tooling necessary to build Mark II Vipers.


Roslin says in one of the episodes that the first production viper had rolled out of the factories onboard Pegasus.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: newman on April 06, 2008, 10:42:12 PM
Quote from: THE Phreak;96356
Roslin says in one of the episodes that the first production viper had rolled out of the factories onboard Pegasus.

Nobody questions that. What they're saying is, the Peg likely didn't produce the aged mkII viper, which has been retired for 20 years before the attack. You can bet the Peg was building modified mkVIIs without the CNP. I doubt her onboard factories would even be able to produce the mkII.
Anyway.. so they have cleaner vipers. So what? Just means they've finally had the time to do some proper maintenance on them. It's as good a reason to tell yourself as any - as the real reason is, 'because the CGI guys made them cleaner'.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Lepton on April 06, 2008, 11:37:11 PM
Or maybe they just used the some Vipers produced for the flashback portions of the webisodes and Razor and thought no one would notice that they looked all spiffy?  Bet on that.  Producers couldn't care less for continuity if it can save them a buck while reusing expensive props.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: David cgc on April 06, 2008, 11:51:32 PM
That's my guess. They cleaned up the prop Vipers for the Razor flashbacks, and didn't have the time or inclination to repaint all the weathering for season 4. Then the CGI guys used the cleaner Vipers to match.

Same deal with the bizarrely blue Mark VII.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: wiley on April 07, 2008, 12:21:38 AM
Too obvious of a difference. There must a reason, we just have to wait and see. I'm sure all will be explained.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Roy Fokker on April 07, 2008, 03:03:06 AM
Isn't a bucket of water and a piece of cloth, plus a couple of cans of paint, the easiest explanation?
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: docfu on April 07, 2008, 03:15:07 AM
Naw, the easiest one is that the props and production-continuity people frakked up.

On a side note, everything that happens in the episode makes perfect sense if you look at it this way:

The Cylons are fanatical believers in one God, they believe they are the chosen, but unfortunately they are too stupid to find Earth themselves. As computers they have a hard time distinguishing fact from fiction and thus they are desperately trying to find the "13th colony earth" and are "baiting" the Galactica toward that purpose.

I guess if you look at it from the perspective that the Cylons believe in their god, but they also believe there may be a 13th colony and in order to win they must eradicate it. First off, of course, they have to find it but since they aren't good at believing in anything outside their 'faith system' they are relying on the crew of the Galactica to lead them.

It's like following an ant home to its nest so you can kill off the queen.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Enki on April 07, 2008, 05:29:11 AM
Quote from: docfu;96374
Naw, the easiest one is that the props and production-continuity people frakked up.

On a side note, everything that happens in the episode makes perfect sense if you look at it this way:

The Cylons are fanatical believers in one God, they believe they are the chosen, but unfortunately they are too stupid to find Earth themselves. As computers they have a hard time distinguishing fact from fiction and thus they are desperately trying to find the "13th colony earth" and are "baiting" the Galactica toward that purpose.

I guess if you look at it from the perspective that the Cylons believe in their god, but they also believe there may be a 13th colony and in order to win they must eradicate it. First off, of course, they have to find it but since they aren't good at believing in anything outside their 'faith system' they are relying on the crew of the Galactica to lead them.

It's like following an ant home to its nest so you can kill off the queen.

Not quite.  The Cylon skinjobs have chosen Earth to be their new homeworld.  Why? I dunno, ask Deanna.  

Their more difficult time of finding it is their relative late to the party desire to find it at all.  Colonial religions have been dealing with the scrolls for millennia.  Cylons have their own God who is not part of those scrolls, leaving them at a distinct disadvantage.  Especially since they not only have to learn the religious symbology of the scrolls from scratch, but they have to find copies in the first place.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Sidestep on April 07, 2008, 08:58:26 AM
Quote from: docfu;96374
Naw, the easiest one is that the props and production-continuity people frakked up.



I think everyone is being a bit harsh on the producers! I'm pretty sure they would notice/would be bothered about such a difference rather than just being too lazy to keep the continuity correct.

I'm more inclined to agree with the less pilot than vipers idea, or that they have had the time to do some proper maintenance on them.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Erkhyan on April 07, 2008, 09:14:53 AM
[Slightly Off-Topic] You guys keep mixing people up : D'ANNA Biers, DEANNA Troi :p [/Done!]
On the topic of triple star systems, I don't remember multiple star systems being recognizable to the naked eye. Zeta Ursae Majoris is the only example (Alcor and Mizar, two of the system's five stars, are visible without a telescope). Alpha Centauri wouldn't be recognized as triple unless one was close to Proxima, the smallest component of the system (Proxima isn't even easily visible from the central pair)
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: TESLA on April 07, 2008, 11:36:08 AM
It seems that starbucks new magic viper, has also created magic panels..... at the end of season 3, the viper has no panels, but it reappears in season 4....
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: newman on April 07, 2008, 12:24:50 PM
What Adama and the fleet fail to realize is it's all one big Earth commercial.
She came to Earth, where her ship was serviced free of charge. She got a brand new engine, bodywork was polished beyond belief, they even wiped the windscreens and fixed the elastic string on the furry dice, and then she was delivered right back to the fleet in no time. I'll bet they even added some horsepower to that baby. Can it be more obvious? The message is, "bring your beat up rag tag fleet to us, the whole system is one giant service station". They even implanted starbuck with a homing chip in her brain. Don't know how much obvious can it be.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Sidestep on April 07, 2008, 12:56:01 PM
Quote from: newman;96398
What Adama and the fleet fail to realize is it's all one big Earth commercial.
She came to Earth, where her ship was serviced free of charge. She got a brand new engine, bodywork was polished beyond belief, they even wiped the windscreens and fixed the elastic string on the furry dice, and then she was delivered right back to the fleet in no time. I'll bet they even added some horsepower to that baby. Can it be more obvious? The message is, "bring your beat up rag tag fleet to us, the whole system is one giant service station". They even implanted starbuck with a homing chip in her brain. Don't know how much obvious can it be.


Yeah, and Starbuck told them to charge the bill to Laura, that's why they're not getting on!
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Doctor Who on April 07, 2008, 06:19:25 PM
Quote from: Kyle_K_ski;96117
"19?"  I thought that I read somewhere that they had only 10 to go?  Or was production halted at 10 due to the writers' strike, or...?  

Now I'm stumped as to why the number 10 is so huge in my mind in regards to BSG!  :confused:

Please help!  :lol:


From what I've heard the 4th season is being broken up into 2 smaller seasons each 10 episodes long.

Quote from: Angelus;96328
In 4x01 there are only 4 Baseships, this could mean the Cylons ( mostly Cavil, since he seems to be the only one who wants the humans dead - yesterday if possible )have increased the amount of ships searching for the RTF.


I think their is going to be a cylon civil war, in one of the previews for the     2nd episode to makes it look like Cavil and one of the other cylons (don't remember which) get in an arguement, about what ever he is doing to the raiders, which ends in gun fire.

And Rosilin is the final 5th, she's really the one side tracking the fleet not Starbuck, the cancer is going to "kill her" and then she'll show up again later. IMO

Oh and did anyone else see the "Revelations" preview with the Chief with a shaved head?
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: spdrcr on April 07, 2008, 08:07:44 PM
The final five have to be cylons of some sort. I thought it odd that the president would not listen to Kara about finding earth. It seems Lee and Anders are the only ones who get it. After all that she has done to find earth. She did go back to Caprica to get the arrow of athena. Now the president doesnt want to listen to her. What a !@@!. Yes it is kind of wierd that after she died she shows back up with a new viper. They should feel good about getting a new viper by the way. Ok so mabe leoben rescues her and takes her to a basestar and hooks her up with a new viper. I am confused about her finding earth though. Since the cylons dont know where it is either. It was 2 months though so anything could have happend. It just seems like they should listen to kara a little more at least check it out. I am really getting sick of the president. What the hell is Bill Adama doing. In the past he would do whatever needed to be done even if the president didnt approve. Now that they are hooking up he doesnt want to go against her. They need to break thier little relationship thing up. I think that the president has outlived her proficy she should be dead by now. I think six and baltar have some special destiny but I really dont know what it would be. At least baltar has is own little cult thing going on. It was ok to watch the first time around but now that i have it recorded i will fast forward through all of that baltar cult junk. I wish they would have went another direction with him. Overall I thought the premeir was a little short and aggrivating. I just didnt like seeing kara treated like that. She deserved a little more respect i think after all she has done.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: newman on April 07, 2008, 08:34:33 PM
Yeah, after her ship blew up, which was witnessed and recorded, she shows up two months later, although she couldn't have possibly survived, in a brand new viper she couldn't possibly have, claiming she found earth (in a non-FTL capable ship which should be in a million pieces), all the while unable to explain how she got there or back, and her nav computer conveniently wiped. And the human race just happens to be on the run from a race of synthetic humans hellbent on wiping them out, which specializes in simulating humans and downloading into new bodies.
No, I really can't see why she's being treated with doubt. After all, she's Starbuck (we think) , and she deserves respect, and the people responsible for the survival of the human race should just blindly trust her and wave away the lack of any logical explanation due to her killscore in the cockpit.
Now I'm not saying she's a Cylon, but if the human race ever does find itself on the brink of extinction, I sure hope you're not the one in charge.. :D
It's like the old man said - he can't afford to trust her, not with so many unknowns and the survival of the human race in question. He doesn't have any way of confirming her identity or what she's saying, and doesn't have the luxury of giving in to his desire to trust her. Burdens of command..
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: TESLA on April 07, 2008, 10:01:21 PM
Quote from: newman;96432
Yeah, after her ship blew up, which was witnessed and recorded, she shows up two months later, although she couldn't have possibly survived, in a brand new viper she couldn't possibly have, claiming she found earth (in a non-FTL capable ship which should be in a million pieces), all the while unable to explain how she got there or back, and her nav computer conveniently wiped. And the human race just happens to be on the run from a race of synthetic humans hellbent on wiping them out, which specializes in simulating humans and downloading into new bodies.
No, I really can't see why she's being treated with doubt. After all, she's Starbuck, and she deserves respect, and the people responsible for the survival of the human race should just blindly trust her and wave away the lack of any logical explanation due to her killscore in the cockpit.
Now I'm not saying she's a Cylon, but if the human race ever does find itself on the brink of extinction, I sure hope you're not the one in charge.. :D
It's like the old man said - he can't afford to trust her, not with so many unknowns and the survival of the human race in question. He doesn't have any way of confirming her identity or what she's saying, and doesn't have the luxury of giving in to his desire to trust her. Burdens of command..



That sums it up nicely :nod: Would agree with it.
I know it was mentioned before, but if aliens are not going to be in the show, then there is a chance, that this whole Baltar, Starbuck, six, etc, is literally angels and demons, like an early version of the Old Testament set up.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: spdrcr on April 07, 2008, 10:25:49 PM
yea but the human race has been on the brink for a while. Besides he trusted athena to go to new caprica and save the humans there and he new she was a cylon. Whats the difference. Without starbuck they would never have gotten the arrow of athena. I guess Starbuck need a little abuse anyway.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: KewlToyZ on April 07, 2008, 10:38:35 PM
I just hope the outcome of this plays itself out well instead of too far out to really make a decent plot line. So far it is getting into shaky territory to keep my intertest outside of of the action. I enjoy suspense but not totally blowing things into commercial breaks and broken to be continued situations making everything so much commercial barf I can't stand it and end up renting the 4th season instead of ever buying it.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Angreifer on April 07, 2008, 10:46:05 PM
Quote from: spdrcr;96446
yea but the human race has been on the brink for a while. Besides he trusted athena to go to new caprica and save the humans there and he new she was a cylon. Whats the difference. Without starbuck they would never have gotten the arrow of athena. I guess Starbuck need a little abuse anyway.


That's the thing though; they knew Athena was a Cylon. In Starbuck's case, the only thing they know is she looks and sounds like the person she's supposed to be. They know nothing else about her. There's too much unknown to take any kind of chance. As it is, they apparently took a chance in letting her out of a cell at all, judging by how the episode ended.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Doctor Who on April 07, 2008, 11:14:53 PM
Anyone else think that the last scene with Starbuck pointing the gun at the president looks a lot like the scene where the 6 shot Admiral Cain? When it was shown in the preveiws I actually thought it was the same scene the first few times.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: TESLA on April 07, 2008, 11:38:33 PM
Quote from: Doctor Who;96464
Anyone else think that the last scene with Starbuck pointing the gun at the president looks a lot like the scene where the 6 shot Admiral Cain? When it was shown in the preveiws I actually thought it was the same scene the first few times.


Actually you have a point there. Certain things were stricking me in that episode (found a way to watch it ;) ) i thought starbuck was acting very much like the degraded six on Peggy. Not sure what it was, but even the style of hair, the eye stares, just seemed so similar....... hmmm maybe starbuck is a cylon and the six is a flawed model of her or something,
who knows, maybe just my imagination playing up lol
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Yueh on April 08, 2008, 04:39:03 AM
I have to agree with the couple of people who had some complaints about the season opener. It didn't have the same tension as the series normally has. I think you'll appreciate this more when you see it on dvd a couple of times.

I still thoroughly enjoyed it but I am more uneasy that they have so many unanswered questions and other plot developments that look like they will lead to a very unsatisfactory ending. Those 4 being cylons (Tigh and Chief especially, Anders makes a bit more sense, and the other girl fine, we barely knew her anyway) really makes it hard to watch the earlier episodes and colours everything those characters did. I think the writers are writing themselves into a corner with shocking twists they haven't really thought through yet.

Also everyone has a habit of not asking enough follow up questions on the show. If someone says "the final five are close," you don't go get chemo, you ask them how close, would you recognise them, why are you not allowed to think about them, etc. Maybe it was just so shocking she had to go lie down for a bit.

Also the time discrepancy is easily explained since time slows down as you approach the speed of light. With the sort of physics details that discussions descend into here I'm surprised no-one noticed that. Perhaps I missed something.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Enki on April 08, 2008, 05:17:41 AM
Quote from: Yueh;96504
I have to agree with the couple of people who had some complaints about the season opener. It didn't have the same tension as the series normally has. I think you'll appreciate this more when you see it on dvd a couple of times.

I still thoroughly enjoyed it but I am more uneasy that they have so many unanswered questions and other plot developments that look like they will lead to a very unsatisfactory ending. Those 4 being cylons (Tigh and Chief especially, Anders makes a bit more sense, and the other girl fine, we barely knew her anyway) really makes it hard to watch the earlier episodes and colours everything those characters did. I think the writers are writing themselves into a corner with shocking twists they haven't really thought through yet.

Also everyone has a habit of not asking enough follow up questions on the show. If someone says "the final five are close," you don't go get chemo, you ask them how close, would you recognise them, why are you not allowed to think about them, etc. Maybe it was just so shocking she had to go lie down for a bit.

Also the time discrepancy is easily explained since time slows down as you approach the speed of light. With the sort of physics details that discussions descend into here I'm surprised no-one noticed that. Perhaps I missed something.


I agree on the inconsistency.  Overall good episode though.

As for not asking follow-up questions, we don't see everything, just what the director and writers want us to see, so there may be more that went on behind the scenes.  It gets difficult to definitively fill in the gaps absolutely.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Sparky on April 08, 2008, 05:40:45 AM
This maybe a stupid idea, but perhaps Starbuck's Viper is the "Wings of an angel" that was described in the prophecy?
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: karajorma on April 08, 2008, 06:35:07 AM
Quote from: spdrcr;96446
yea but the human race has been on the brink for a while. Besides he trusted athena to go to new caprica and save the humans there and he new she was a cylon. Whats the difference. Without starbuck they would never have gotten the arrow of athena. I guess Starbuck need a little abuse anyway.


How would they even know that the Starbuck that they have now is the same person that they saw get the Arrow?

They trusted Athena because

1) She knew who and what she was
2) Even before they knew she was a Cylon she never did anything to betray them. Especially after she fell in love with Helo.
3) After it was revealed she was a Cylon she proved several times that she wanted to switch sides by helping the Colonials.

Now on the other hand your argument basically is that they should trust Starbuck cause she looks and sounds like someone they used to trust. She might not actually BE that person (Look at Boomer and Athena if you need proof of that!) but they should trust her just in case she is.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: HotBagel on April 08, 2008, 07:09:19 AM
Quote from: karajorma;96516
2) Even before they knew she was a Cylon she never did anything to betray them. Especially after she fell in love with Helo.


She stole Starbuck's Raider, complete with Colonial modifications, which then came back as Scar and preceded to pick off most of the Pegasus nuggets while bringing Starbuck to a near death experience, stopped thanks to Racetrack (RIP).

Quote
3) After it was revealed she was a Cylon she proved several times that she wanted to switch sides by helping the Colonials.


So?  Cylons have on numerous occasions worked to gain the trust of the Colonials for their own interests, whether it be to kill them or get impregnated by them.

Quote
Now on the other hand your argument basically is that they should trust Starbuck cause she looks and sounds like someone they used to trust. She might not actually BE that person (Look at Boomer and Athena if you need proof of that!) but they should trust her just in case she is.


I really don't know where the writers are going with this scenario that's a rip off of Contact (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contact_%28film%29), but hell I wouldn't trust someone that shows up in a bran new viper.  But then again, I've been surprised the Colonials still trust Boomer/Athena for this long.  The writers seem to favor portraying Athena as the "good" cylon, which sucks because it underwrites the original character of the cylons as being super manipulative.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: newman on April 08, 2008, 07:11:18 AM
Personally I love the new episode. There's only one thing I didn't like about it, and that was the hastily written dialogue part: "Chief, I'm gonna need you to develop my gun camera footage ASAP.."
Develop? What, they got a dark room filled with developing fluids somewhere? Good thing they're coming to earth.. we may know little about interstellar travel, but when it comes to digital cameras, we're masters.. ;)

edit: Ripoff of Contact? Look, I read the book and I saw the movie. Just because you found a vague similarity doesn't mean it's a ripoff. If what little is similar constitutes as a ripoff, hey then everything is a ripoff.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Lepton on April 08, 2008, 07:15:23 AM
I think it might be interesting to reference another sci-fi classic for some perspective on this issue.  Take the movie "Contact".  We have not a dissimilar situation.  Starbuck is asking that her intuition, her identity, her perceptions and experiences of Earth be trusted just as Arroway (the Jodie Foster character) asked to be believed when she came back from her extraterrestrial encounter.  Ultimately, it was a leap of faith, which as an atheist I find a deplorable way to have ended one of my favorite movies, but that is neither here nor there.  

Be that as it may, the writers have certainly played with issues of faith and trust in this show.  If Starbuck is not who she says that she is, then it is merely another screwy twist, like some good guy wrestler going bad.  But if she is indeed who she claims to be, then it is all the more dramatic for not being believed, for being doubted, for us doubting, and for the important information that she has.  I think the higher dramatic tension of her being who and what she claims and being doubted points us to the actual truth as the other alternative is just another unsatisfying head game on the viewer.  I don't think that is what the writers are aiming for.  I think if they did the reveal and she was found to be a Cylon, people would feel tricked.  It would be wholly unsatisfying.  It would totally flip all of her history, negating much of what had come before.  The whole human/cylon, Starbuck/Leoben tension.  The tests and captivity back on Caprica and New Caprica.  What would be the point?  "Oh, she was a cylon the whole time.  So what?"  I don't think the writers are going to unravel all their character development and story arcs for one dramatic and pointless switcheroo.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Sidestep on April 08, 2008, 08:03:25 AM
There's 3 options really;

1 It really is Starbuck
2 Starbuck has always been a Cylon and is the final one to be revealed
3 Starbuck has been replaced by a Cylon version of her to infiltrate the Colonial fleet

Personally I think it's still Starbuck, as like a few other people have said on here, putting her through all she's been through wouldn;t make a lot of sense if she had always been a Cylon (And surely when all the testing was going on the Cylons would have noticed that anatomically she was one of them), and are the Cylons capable of cloning a human completely, including their personality? And if she is a replacement and her job is to infiltrate the fleet, we should find out pretty quickly, because with a gun pointed at the Presidents head in the Admirals quarters, surely she could finish them both off and disrupt the fleet quite a bit!

I thought the first episode was great and leaves it open for a great journey on the last series.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: newman on April 08, 2008, 08:18:59 AM
I think they actually confirmed somewhere that Starbuck isn't a Cylon. One of the rare things they said with certainty.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Sidestep on April 08, 2008, 08:35:23 AM
[spoiler]
Good, I think it would ruin it if she was a Cylon.

Who confirmed it Newman?

Just so long as it wasn't Baltar with his Cylon detector! ;)[/spoiler]
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Fish on April 08, 2008, 08:52:28 AM
You guys may want to discuss such things with spoiler tags, please.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: karajorma on April 08, 2008, 09:11:18 AM
Quote from: HotBagel;96523
She stole Starbuck's Raider, complete with Colonial modifications, which then came back as Scar and preceded to pick off most of the Pegasus nuggets while bringing Starbuck to a near death experience, stopped thanks to Racetrack (RIP).

Umm. Racetrack's not dead. You're thinking of Kat.

Besides Athena chose to return after taking that Raider even though she didn't have to.

Finally although it's implied that that particular Raider is Scar there is no proof.

Quote
So?  Cylons have on numerous occasions worked to gain the trust of the Colonials for their own interests, whether it be to kill them or get impregnated by them.

And with that as a given doesn't it make it even more stupid to trust Starbuck when she also may be a Cylon then?
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Cl1nt on April 08, 2008, 12:16:28 PM
Just watched it, and wow.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Star Dragon on April 08, 2008, 02:10:41 PM
It's ok if Roslin doesn't die, just so long as Starbuck actually pulls the fracking trigger and hit the biatch... Seriously I will be major bummed if something stops her. I was all for 6 killing Cain, but it felt hollow (two monsters duking it out, verses the "I'm right and your wrong, you gotta go!" mind set.

As for naming conventions on ships: Valkyrie? (same NORSE meaning? Choosers of the slain? probable Blasphemy?). Mercury - an element aka quicksilver NOT the Roman name for HERMES (messenger of the Gods) so in that context is acceptable as they would know about mercury, and coincidentally name it the same thing... (god damn Preservers/Goa'uld, spreading Humanity all over the Cosmos!)

Truly such an oversight for "sounding cool" simply strikes of laziness and slight ignorance on the writer's part. If you can't stay in context then why have any at all when not only fans would pick it up, but the characters themselves should take issue with it culturally?
(In other words I piss all over the sacred scrolls, they're probably a lie anyway...)

At least a geologist could tell us what era of time Earth was in cause you could clearly see the North American Continent So it wasn't a few billion years ago with PANGEA super continent. Perhaps up to a few hundred thousand years from now at most?

I had a really disturbing thought at work, this could all be a simulation but MUCH much bigger than I had originally mentioned. This might not be a simulation of HOW to attack the colonies, but something else.

What if the Colonies really LOST 40 years ago? IF that happened what does this mean? What if the Cylons are seeking Earth to Destroy the last mythical place of free Humans and either this is all a simulation on possible scenarios, OR EVERYONE in the fleet is a Cylon (some are different than others, real or simulated)!

Farfetched, yeah, but I wouldn't put anything past RDM...

That and Nick and Hera becoming some version of Adam and Eve...

Regardless, I will be watching for the thing that makes us realize, "ah I get it now!"
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Prutus on April 08, 2008, 02:41:52 PM
Well, I think they are as advanced as 12 colonies. They left kobol and made their way to earth by what? galleon? sure, made of wood and they sailed all the way without wind?  So its atleast time of long spacetravel. I think FTL is a must. Or then they are still in their way to earth when RTF gets there.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: newman on April 08, 2008, 02:50:48 PM
About the ship names; remember that we still don't know the time frame in which the show is happening relative to Earth. I for one doubt that Earth is in the 21st century during the events of the show. It could be that it's happening in a far, far future and the 13th tribe carried the myths to Earth, much like the others carried the same myths to the 12 colonies. If they can have Greek mythology, why not Norse? It is a stretch, but frankly no bigger then the Greek mythology already present.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: KewlToyZ on April 08, 2008, 04:38:47 PM
That whole time frame is what keeps my attention and curiosity high.
Could present some really great fiction.
Caprica so far looks like it is going to turn into some sort of Cylon Baywatch thing that may be just too cheesy in plot to make it. Would be a shame because they have some really great structure to work with. A shame if they ignore it for low brow commercial junk.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: wiley on April 08, 2008, 05:37:53 PM
I've got a ?. If numbering of the cylon's is significant then wouldn't Boomer/Athena (#8) be one of the final five? and if so then maybe the last reveal will be the First (#1) Cylon.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: TESLA on April 08, 2008, 06:02:17 PM
not quiet sure i follow you there>???? :confused:
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: wiley on April 08, 2008, 06:18:51 PM
Quote from: TESLA;96569
not quiet sure i follow you there>???? :confused:


Just wondering if the numbering is in effect a serial number of sorts. Then it seems to me there is nothing "final" about the five, just something different.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: karajorma on April 08, 2008, 06:29:37 PM
Given the numbers we do know it could easily go 1, 2-8 (The seven known models), 9-12 (known Final Five).

Which would be a very interesting numbering pattern indeed.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Wolfy on April 08, 2008, 08:15:25 PM
9 10 11 12... nope, sorry kara, thats 4 models of cylon, not 5...

As for the raider which became Scar, it wont of been after Athena stole it if it weas that raider at all, and to be honest, i never even heard it implied it was the raider whch was used to get starbuck back to Caprica. Besides, Starbuck killed it on the moon it was on, so if it was that raider, its starbucks fault, not Athenas
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: wiley on April 08, 2008, 08:21:14 PM
Quote from: Wolfy;96593
9 10 11 12... nope, sorry kara, thats 4 models of cylon, not 5...



I believe Karajorma numbered the five as "1,9,10,11,12"
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Wolfy on April 08, 2008, 09:00:58 PM
oh sorry, i missed the little - between the 1 and 2.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: karajorma on April 08, 2008, 09:12:36 PM
Yep. We only know the numbers for 3,5,6 and 8 But given the close grouping it doesn't seem unreasonable that the other 3 are numbers 2, 4 and 7.

What we definitely know is that the final 5 can't have contiguous numbers. But the 4 revealed models could.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: TESLA on April 08, 2008, 10:39:11 PM
actually, i was watching that show tonight BSG: Revealed,
RDM said that there are "12 human cylon models, that we know of "

Hmmmmmmm

me thinks there could be more????

For all we know, all the humans in the fleet could be cylon models, some sort of cylon overlord experiment or something..
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: KewlToyZ on April 08, 2008, 10:48:45 PM
I had considered this (the entire colonies being Cylon) a few times in the series.
I just figured it was too far out there...
Now we have a sort of Matrix thing happening, Cylon race that thinks their Human to proliferate. The only way they could reproduce was with love and a perception of biological life. But I can't get my head around why wipe out most of them and drive them in search of 1 planet when they already had 12?
Unless it is like seeking their makers who left for the 13th colony when it got out of control. "All of this has happened before, and it will happen again..."
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Star Dragon on April 08, 2008, 11:02:45 PM
Head Six was quite a trip for me, worse with Head Baltar...
I got another theory:

Head 6 is Evil (Iblis type) and pushing Baltar to help the Cylons...

Head Baltar is TPTB (The Powers That Be- SOL -TOS) balancing the score and pushing 6 to be good and Help Humanity.

I highly suspect Baltar is Model 1, or just seriously insane. The guilt that 6 laid on him on Caprica has shattered his hold on reality permanently and everything he went through is just a sad decent into destruction - But he keeps comming through it?

It's too bad Anders didn't stop Kara and sit her down and say, "look you got to listen to me now, I just found out something but it doesn't affect how I feel about you or that I hate the fraking toasters... I'm a toaster, one of the final five... um, pls put the gun down..."

Kara is gonna freak... How many rounds does that gun hold? :)
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Doctor Who on April 08, 2008, 11:55:09 PM
Quote from: KewlToyZ;96606
I had considered this (the entire colonies being Cylon) a few times in the series.
I just figured it was too far out there...
Now we have a sort of Matrix thing happening, Cylon race that thinks their Human to proliferate. The only way they could reproduce was with love and a perception of biological life. But I can't get my head around why wipe out most of them and drive them in search of 1 planet when they already had 12?
Unless it is like seeking their makers who left for the 13th colony when it got out of control. "All of this has happened before, and it will happen again..."


I always figured they decided to go after earth for the same reason they are chasing the fleet, so that they can be certain no one would ever come after them, since what would happen if the 13th tribe ever decided to pay the other 12 a visit and only found cylons?
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: KewlToyZ on April 09, 2008, 03:00:00 AM
I've been watching the deleted scenes lately, and man, why? Why were they deleted?
They added so much more depth to the characters and made episodes that seemed flat suddenly have some real meat. For some commercials? TV butchers art every chance it can get....
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Lepton on April 09, 2008, 03:59:37 AM
What I find frustrating and unimaginative about the whole Starbuck/Earth thing is how it's being treated as an all or nothing proposition.  Either she must be wholly trusted without any evidence and the whole fleet must go where she leads, or she's a raving lunatic/Cylon and the fleet keeps heading on the same heading without anyone consulting the Scriptures to figure out what to do next.  Why can't they simply send a small group of ships, say some fighters and some raptors, to scout out Earth and her claims while the fleet waits in a safe spot or carries on in some other manner that this expedition could rejoin the fleet?  Must it be some unthinking all or nothing proposition??

This is just in the same manner as the easiest way to confirm that Arroway is telling the truth in "Contact" is to send another damned person through the thing, but no one can possibly think of that, so we get clobbered over the head with some leap of faith BS instead of the scientific method.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: ZildjianO0 on April 09, 2008, 04:38:55 AM
As a side note... I realized on my 2nd viewing that the Cylon raider has been tweaked since previous seasons.  I watched some season 2 stuff and Scar (now I know Scar itself was different looking) and the Zoic raiders had a flat visor like the old Cylons while the one in Season 4 has the new school V-Visor.  Surprised I haven't seen this mentioned before.  
  As for Starbuck... I was pissed before when they killed her because i thought it was the biggest destiny cop-out ever.  Now that she's back, I can't accept that she'd be a Cylon.  It would ruin her character arc completely.  Honestly the only person i could see being the final 1 is Dualla.  Everyone else is too important of a human character for it to work out.  Granted, I thought the same thing about Chief and Tigh.  We'll see.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Talchar on April 09, 2008, 05:11:35 AM
Quote from: karajorma;96576
Given the numbers we do know it could easily go 1, 2-8 (The seven known models), 9-12 (known Final Five).

Which would be a very interesting numbering pattern indeed.


The final five numbers have to equal 6 in some way. Why else would Adama keep saying "roll a hard six" . Sure you could say it refers to "craps" but no one on the show seems to know what it means....
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Enki on April 09, 2008, 05:47:40 AM
Quote from: ZildjianO0;96623
As a side note... I realized on my 2nd viewing that the Cylon raider has been tweaked since previous seasons.  I watched some season 2 stuff and Scar (now I know Scar itself was different looking) and the Zoic raiders had a flat visor like the old Cylons while the one in Season 4 has the new school V-Visor.  Surprised I haven't seen this mentioned before.  
  As for Starbuck... I was pissed before when they killed her because i thought it was the biggest destiny cop-out ever.  Now that she's back, I can't accept that she'd be a Cylon.  It would ruin her character arc completely.  Honestly the only person i could see being the final 1 is Dualla.  Everyone else is too important of a human character for it to work out.  Granted, I thought the same thing about Chief and Tigh.  We'll see.

This was discussed to death when Razor came out, that's why!:nod:  

[edit: Sorry that seemed to read a bit harsh, it's not meant that way.]
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Wolfy on April 09, 2008, 01:04:30 PM
Quote from: Talchar;96626
The final five numbers have to equal 6 in some way. Why else would Adama keep saying "roll a hard six" . Sure you could say it refers to "craps" but no one on the show seems to know what it means....


umm, it just means youve got to make a hard decision or to take a chance (s rolling a 6 in gambling has a 1 in 6 chance)

Edit: The rest of the characters know what it means, or at least more or less, ts just one of the things that Adma says that makes a unique character
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Enki on April 09, 2008, 04:04:57 PM
Quote from: Wolfy;96641
umm, it just means youve got to make a hard decision or to take a chance (s rolling a 6 in gambling has a 1 in 6 chance)

Edit: The rest of the characters know what it means, or at least more or less, ts just one of the things that Adma says that makes a unique character



But rolling a hard six is a one in 36 chance (3,3), compared to 5/36 for rolling just a total of 6 on two dice.  It's a term from the game craps and the payoff is higher, but missing it is more likely too.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: wiley on April 09, 2008, 04:05:31 PM
Odds of rolling a hard six (two three's) is 35 to 1.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Enki on April 09, 2008, 07:30:23 PM
Quote from: wiley;96656
Odds of rolling a hard six (two three's) is 35 to 1.


35 to one is a shady way of stating a one in 36 possibility.  While you can argue they both have the same probability, the payouts are different.  When paid as 35 to one rather than 36:1 which is the true difference in the casino keeps the difference as the vig.  That's where most of the house advantage comes from, a sleight of hand in use of natural language rather than adhering to true mathematical form.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: AJAG on April 09, 2008, 07:59:24 PM
There are some things that got me thinking...

1.- They always say "The Cylons built their OWN skin jobs". Does that mean that there were other skin jobs created before but not by Cylons?... maybe humans created skin jobs before the cylons created theirs? Could the final 5 be these models and could that explain why they don't like each other?

2.- Why would the cylons fight for their freedom from humans and then create skinjobs to go back and being slaves? If I was one of those toasters, I would definitively not create other cylons and program myself to obey them. Could it be the final 5 were created by humans and at the same time programmed the original toasters to obey these new and better versions of themselves? Not sure but would make more sense than cylon toasters enslaving themselves agian.

AJAG
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: wiley on April 09, 2008, 08:26:21 PM
Quote from: Enki;96691
35 to one is a shady way of stating a one in 36 possibility.  While you can argue they both have the same probability, the payouts are different.  When paid as 35 to one rather than 36:1 which is the true difference in the casino keeps the difference as the vig.  That's where most of the house advantage comes from, a sleight of hand in use of natural language rather than adhering to true mathematical form.

Your talking Probability not odds (probability is 1 out of 36)

The true odds of any pair on two dice is 35 to 1: Number of possibilities other than your number is 35/1 is the possibility of rolling your number.

However the casino will pay you 9 to 1 for rolling it because the odds (within the game of craps) is 10 to 1 of rolling a hard six because there are ten ways to lose and only 1 way to win. you lose if you roll any easy 6 (4 ways to do that) or any 7 (6 ways to do that) hence 10 ways to lose. Only 1 hard six (10 to 1), But casino will pay 9 to 1 thats where the house edge is.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Talchar on April 10, 2008, 05:11:31 AM
Edit: The rest of the characters know what it means, or at least more or less, ts just one of the things that Adma says that makes a unique character[/QUOTE]

From Valley of Darkness

Apollo: Let's go, let's go, let's go! Steady up there, Jammer.
 
Jammer: Yes, sir. I'm not really cut out for this, sir.
 
Apollo: Me neither. Sometimes you got to roll a hard six.
 
Jammer: Wh-what does that mean, sir?
 
Apollo: Uh... I don't know. It's something my dad says. Just...don't shoot until I tell ya to. All right. Okay, we're in good shape. They're coming. But we're in good shape. Head shot. Reload. Head shot. Head shot. Reload.  Head shot. Reload. Head shot. Okay, they're coming. Everybody down!
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Sparky on April 10, 2008, 05:31:47 AM
Quote from: AJAG;96694
There are some things that got me thinking...

1.- They always say "The Cylons built their OWN skin jobs". Does that mean that there were other skin jobs created before but not by Cylons?... maybe humans created skin jobs before the cylons created theirs? Could the final 5 be these models and could that explain why they don't like each other?


Then why would everybody always be so shocked when they heard the phrase, "The Cylons look like us now"?

Quote

2.- Why would the cylons fight for their freedom from humans and then create skinjobs to go back and being slaves? If I was one of those toasters, I would definitively not create other cylons and program myself to obey them. Could it be the final 5 were created by humans and at the same time programmed the original toasters to obey these new and better versions of themselves? Not sure but would make more sense than cylon toasters enslaving themselves agian.

AJAG


My guess is that it was an accident.  The Cylons created the humans as another type of Cylon, but the mechanicals didn't count on them seeking to gain power.  Lets just say that if the toasters ever figure this out, the skinjobs are in for it.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Lepton on April 10, 2008, 05:49:32 AM
Last of the final Five:  Tom Zarek!!!!

DUN!! DUN!! DUN!!!

Wouldn't that be fun?!
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: wiley on April 10, 2008, 05:55:15 AM
Mentioned here somewhere was that it appeared that Cylon's age. Maybe they replaced someones baby some 30 years ago and he was raised by humans and grew up to be a fighter pilot in the colonial fleet his father could also be in the fleet as an admiral (completely unaware).
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Sidestep on April 10, 2008, 08:12:19 AM
Quote from: wiley;96745
Mentioned here somewhere was that it appeared that Cylon's age. Maybe they replaced someones baby some 30 years ago and he was raised by humans and grew up to be a fighter pilot in the colonial fleet his father could also be in the fleet as an admiral (completely unaware).


Obviously Cylons age, we've already seen Tigh looking younger on a few flashbacks. It's likely that all Four of them have grown since children, although there's no proof of this, and they may just have been inserted into the human race some time before the first war in Tigh's case, and after in the other 3's case.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Enki on April 10, 2008, 08:44:49 AM
Quote from: wiley;96698
Your talking Probability not odds (probability is 1 out of 36)

The true odds of any pair on two dice is 35 to 1: Number of possibilities other than your number is 35/1 is the possibility of rolling your number.

However the casino will pay you 9 to 1 for rolling it because the odds (within the game of craps) is 10 to 1 of rolling a hard six because there are ten ways to lose and only 1 way to win. you lose if you roll any easy 6 (4 ways to do that) or any 7 (6 ways to do that) hence 10 ways to lose. Only 1 hard six (10 to 1), But casino will pay 9 to 1 thats where the house edge is.


So if you agree with me why does it look like you are arguing?

Same frakking thing, too many words wasted.  Electrons I'll never see again! Oh the horrors!!!  :p
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Tikey on April 10, 2008, 10:17:10 AM
Perhaps the final five don't resurrect, they reincarnate. :P

Quote from: Lepton;96744
Last of the final Five:  Tom Zarek!!!!

DUN!! DUN!! DUN!!!

Wouldn't that be fun?!


Actually, if RDM wasn't lying about which characters aren't the final one, Zarek is my first guess about who the final cylon is.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: spdrcr on April 10, 2008, 05:16:11 PM
Wouldnt it be cool if in order to get to earth they have to go the same way starbuck did. When they reach earth Galactica gets repaired to brand new with all armour new paint. Now that would be an awsome site. Galactica looks like it has been to hell and back right now.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: wiley on April 10, 2008, 05:22:03 PM
Quote from: spdrcr;96790
Wouldnt it be cool if in order to get to earth they have to go the same way starbuck did. When they reach earth Galactica gets repaired to brand new with all armour new paint. Now that would be an awsome site. Galactica looks like it has been to hell and back right now.


And in exchange the colonials help the residents of earth construct the pyramids.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: TESLA on April 10, 2008, 07:31:39 PM
Quote from: wiley;96791
And in exchange the colonials help the residents of earth construct the pyramids.


Out of boredom?

But Spdrcr is right though, Galactica looks like its been smashed about (well suppose it has) some difference between the ship of the opening in the mini series and the ship we have now in season 4, i seriously doubt the hull is in that good condition?
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: wiley on April 11, 2008, 07:52:19 AM
I just watched this episode again and was wondering has anyone else noticed the apparent significance of the right eye?! Tigh's right eye removed by cylons, Adama shot in right eye in Tigh's hallucination, Anders right eye scanned or something by the raider.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: SFM Hobbes on April 11, 2008, 01:25:15 PM
Anyone notice how quickly the Space Park is getting repaired?  There is a scene that shows raptors or other small ships surveying the damage, and then just before Roslin meets with six, another scene showing the Space park from a distance, and it appears most of the damage is repaired, except for the glass.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Angreifer on April 11, 2008, 02:19:15 PM
Quote from: SFM Hobbes;96911
Anyone notice how quickly the Space Park is getting repaired?  There is a scene that shows raptors or other small ships surveying the damage, and then just before Roslin meets with six, another scene showing the Space park from a distance, and it appears most of the damage is repaired, except for the glass.


Could be that the hits severely weakened the overall structural integrity of the ship, mandating immediate repairs. I feel so bad for Pixis (sp?) though; all it took was one out of control Raider to take it out!
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: Roy Fokker on April 11, 2008, 05:16:22 PM
Quote from: Angreifer;96917
I feel so bad for Pixis (sp?) though; all it took was one out of control Raider to take it out!


Well, it was loaded with ammo, possibly missiles, damaged, and hit the engines directly...
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: spdrcr on April 11, 2008, 05:41:06 PM
It is kind of wierd that they would take out Tigh's right eye. I mean why him. You dont see anyone else running around with one eye. With Tigh's eye gone Will that hinder him from being scanned or receiving any kind of messages or sending them. I am also wondering if tigh is still hearing music because when the 4 met in tigh's room. He made the comment "does anyone still here that frakking music." They said no but i thought at the begining of the scene they were playing it.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: newman on April 11, 2008, 05:49:55 PM
Quote from: spdrcr;96934
It is kind of wierd that they would take out Tigh's right eye. I mean why him.


He was effectively the leader of the opposition on New Caprica. That alone warrants.. shall we say, special treatment.
Title: Season 4 Episode 1 Discussion *Spoilers*
Post by: KewlToyZ on April 11, 2008, 05:56:03 PM
All I know is tonight is going to be a good one!