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Hosted => Battlestar Galactica: Beyond the Red Line => Topic started by: Ace on April 01, 2007, 02:58:32 AM

Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Ace on April 01, 2007, 02:58:32 AM
Overall, beautiful and it feels very faithful to the show. I can't emphasize how well the dogfights seem to match with the feel of the series.

My only negative feedback:
1) Typos- In the tech room there are a few typos, and there is a little creative spelling in the command briefings. The voiceovers themselves are good.

2) The president sees invisible people- I'm assuming this takes place before Scar, shouldn't the line be "The Vice President?" Maybe a hotfix for that, inserting 'Vice' also into the recorded dialog would be good as it raised an eyebrow.

3) Images for weapon and intelligence entries in the tech room! (a picture of the scriptures for Earth, a render of Galactica for battlestars, etc.)
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: KypFisto on April 01, 2007, 03:08:30 AM
I've also noticed the tech room narrations are done by a text to speech program. Then again I may be missing a file or something of that effect.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Axem on April 01, 2007, 03:17:54 AM
1) Oops... :nervous:

2) My script and in FRED it says Vice President. I haven't heard the actual VA line in awhile, but I'm pretty sure its vice president there too.

3) We'll make sure we do that for the full game. :p

Kyp: Tech room stuff doesn't have any VA, even in FS2. You can get rid of it by deselecting everything in the Speech Tab on the launcher.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Ace on April 01, 2007, 04:14:50 AM
I only played through the mission once, so probably it's my bad on #2 ;)

So... ermm fix the typos!
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Mjolnir2000 on April 01, 2007, 04:21:49 AM
Aside from the multiplayer being impossibly hard (though that might have more to do with me...) I'm loving it so far.

Quick question:  When you're in glide mode is there absolutely no way to manuever?  In Babylon 5: I've Found Her, for example, you can still use side thrusters, but those didn't seem to work in this.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: PsychoticShroom on April 01, 2007, 04:32:32 AM
I have to say "took you guys long enough". but anyhow, it was well worth the wait. Spectacular work guys

One thing though,

In the multiplayer missions that have  accompanying AI and opposing AI, I notice the AIs don't "burst" with their guns, they fire single shots and each shot is almost laser accurate. Any way to fix that?
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: y2k_37 on April 01, 2007, 04:34:05 AM
i cant get the multiplayer to work... it cant find any games
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Dukeman42 on April 01, 2007, 04:47:56 AM
Quote from: Mjolnir2000;61829

Quick question:  When you're in glide mode is there absolutely no way to manuever?  In Babylon 5: I've Found Her, for example, you can still use side thrusters, but those didn't seem to work in this.


This seems to be an issue with the current coding of the engine...but this is something that I"ve been trying to get changed for a while.  It is on my list of features to try for in the main release, if possible.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: 0Starbuck0 on April 01, 2007, 04:59:22 AM
Quote from: y2k_37;61835
i cant get the multiplayer to work... it cant find any games


You need to register with http://fs2netd.game-warden.com/

Once you do that just put your username and password into the multiplayer options and you're set.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: FOX2PRO on April 01, 2007, 05:31:45 AM
We need more deathmatch servers!
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Unknown Target on April 01, 2007, 05:34:05 AM
You also need to make sure your firewalls and your router (!) forwards port 7808.

Lets not propagate the myth of port 7117 to a whole new bunch of people please. :p You only need 7808  - Karajorma
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: FOX2PRO on April 01, 2007, 05:37:20 AM
How would I do that?
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Unknown Target on April 01, 2007, 05:41:19 AM
http://game-warden.com/forum/showthread.php?t=267
Step 5 :)
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: timbo1138 on April 01, 2007, 01:17:24 PM
I just finished the single-player campaign, and before anything else, let me congratulate the team on an AMAZING job. Like Ace said, I can barely believe how authentic the game looks and feels. Flying a Viper is a challenging thing, but it should be, and I loved the feeling of being just slightly out of my depth at the stick of something so powerful, but then feeling a surge of accomplishment as I get the hang of it and started confidently blowing toasters out of the sky.

The only criticism I have is that with the sheer amount of pilot chatter going on, and the level to which the voices are distorted, it can be really difficult to follow what's going on, especially when it's happening while you're in the middle of a furball with 6 raiders. That's not a slight on the voice actors, who are brilliant, or the writing, which is very authentic. It just all comes at you very quickly and is sometimes quite hard to understand. I tried to not have to look at the subtitles, but found that I had to many times (which is another issue, the timing on the subtitles is often a bit wonky, with them either disappearing too soon or showing up too late or not at all). I think the 'pacing' (for want of a better word) of the dialogue could use a little bit of work for the full version. Big, big props to the writer(s) and actors, though. You made me feel like I was right there. :D
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Nothing_But_The_Rain on April 01, 2007, 03:51:29 PM
^2nded. Great acting and writing, with lots of cool detail; but the sheer volume of dialogue is hard to follow even in the calmer moments. The comm distortion friggin' rules, though, as does the chatter in the background during the briefings.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: ArrTee on April 01, 2007, 03:54:52 PM
Quote from: timbo1138;62004
The only criticism I have is that with the sheer amount of pilot chatter going on, and the level to which the voices are distorted, it can be really difficult to follow what's going on, especially when it's happening while you're in the middle of a furball with 6 raiders. That's not a slight on the voice actors, who are brilliant, or the writing, which is very authentic. It just all comes at you very quickly and is sometimes quite hard to understand. I tried to not have to look at the subtitles, but found that I had to many times (which is another issue, the timing on the subtitles is often a bit wonky, with them either disappearing too soon or showing up too late or not at all). I think the 'pacing' (for want of a better word) of the dialogue could use a little bit of work for the full version. Big, big props to the writer(s) and actors, though. You made me feel like I was right there. :D


Thanks Timbo, I agree 100% on this.. everything else is perfect... PERRRRFEEEEEECT..
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: VPR on April 01, 2007, 04:43:57 PM
Hello I've been watching the progress of this for about 2 years now and I have to agree with what's been said above, the demo lived up to all my own expectations and I'm looking forward to the full release.

The voice overs added greatly and I found it really helped draw me in and build the atmosphere. Creating campaigns for Xwing vs Tie Fighter and Xwing Alliance myself, it is difficult at times to draw players in and I think you've achieved this extremely well!
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: karajorma on April 01, 2007, 04:54:33 PM
Usually I wouldn't put that amount of chatter in a mission during combat but in the case of Birth of a Legend it was rather central to the plot.

That said I'll work with Oddaelan to make sure it's easier to follow what's going on next time. Cause if you watch something like Scar (Which I watched you won't believe how many times while preparing for this mission) you can see that the pilots do like yakking away to each other. :D
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: TheFili on April 01, 2007, 05:29:05 PM
Good: The voice acting is top, state-of-the-art, high class, professional sounding earcandy.
Bad: Well, you've heard it, it's a bit much.
Good: The random factor is a nice touch.
Bad: Didn't know where else to put it, since it's not a bug or tech problem per se, but if you're already of chasing Scar in "Birth of a Legend" and your wingman (I think Nova) buys it, you get the whole "go play babysitter" line again. Is that intentional?
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: thesizzler on April 01, 2007, 05:31:24 PM
Oh! I noticed a bad thing!!!

In one of the Command briefings, the text says (in reference to a ship) 'she' but the voice actor says 'it'. :p
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Lithium on April 01, 2007, 05:41:52 PM
Just finished. Excellent Demo! Scar is a bastard.

I was hoping for a little more, but that's the price of a demo.

Caveat:    Either there wasn't an explanation on the asteroid targeting, or I missed it. I had to run that 'Birth of a Legend' one twice because of that. I didn't know what rocks were supposed to be shot.
Scar is a bastard.

Personal Caveat:    This showed me that I'm more than a little rusty. I ran it on 'very easy' and I was having a problem targeting - lining up the relatively small red reticle.

Scar is a bastard.

Congratulations!
   This felt like the show. That in itself made for a lot of squee-ish fanboy moments.
The chatter didn't bother me at all. In fact, it enhanced the realism for me.
I didn't have a problem understanding any of the dialog.
If anything, this proves to me that games like this can be made without all the hoohah of corporate bullcrap.

Oh, and...

Scar is a bastard.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: karajorma on April 01, 2007, 05:58:48 PM
He's meant to be one. Starbuck said that he was as good as she was. The player should not have an easy time with him.

Quote from: TheFili;62123
Bad: Didn't know where else to put it, since it's not a bug or tech problem per se, but if you're already of chasing Scar in "Birth of a Legend" and your wingman (I think Nova) buys it, you get the whole "go play babysitter" line again. Is that intentional?

It's a bug.  And it will be fixed in the patch.

Karajorma kicks himself. Actually if all my bugs are of that sort of level of rarity and that minor I won't be to unhappy. :o

Incidentally how did you get Nova killed?
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: FOX2PRO on April 01, 2007, 06:04:45 PM
So....whens the full thing coming out?
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Mjolnir2000 on April 01, 2007, 06:09:09 PM
when it's done.:p
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: mprey on April 01, 2007, 06:11:18 PM
Quote from: Mjolnir2000;62151
when it's done.:p


Well, hopefully before the whole affair is shut down by the copyright holders, as it always seems happening with these kinds of fan made projects... :/
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Imperator on April 01, 2007, 06:35:51 PM
Quote
Bad: Didn't know where else to put it, since it's not a bug or tech problem per se, but if you're already of chasing Scar in "Birth of a Legend" and your wingman (I think Nova) buys it, you get the whole "go play babysitter" line again. Is that intentional?

Do you actually see Scar? I mean the actual, factual, rusted, lovable bastard Scar?
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Sharrpe95 on April 01, 2007, 06:57:02 PM
From what I could tell he wasn't really rusted or 'scared' yet, I think the episode Scar takes place a few weeks after they have been mining? I dunno
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Imperator on April 01, 2007, 07:04:17 PM
Ahhh, so that tricky Raider at the end was Scar, I thought he was a little easy, then again I was on easy...
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Turey on April 01, 2007, 07:04:24 PM
Quote from: Imperator;62164
Do you actually see Scar? I mean the actual, factual, rusted, lovable bastard Scar?


in response, I can only say:
(http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/images/screenshots/screen08.jpg)
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Imperator on April 01, 2007, 07:09:59 PM
By your command.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: M-562 on April 01, 2007, 07:10:12 PM
Quote from: FOX2PRO;62144
So....whens the full thing coming out?



in the other movies like you have some other maps WITH galactica and basestars. So final question then I'll stop for now -> Will it take a very long time to finish the real deal or will you have it finished in a matter of months?
(thats uptil 6 MAX everything beyond that red line is very long)
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Dukeman42 on April 01, 2007, 07:13:10 PM
We cannot make any deadline estimates for main release.  We have about half of the models we need, completed; the story is more or less done, but tweaking it to work with the mission structuring, writing dialogue scripts, selecting and recording voice overs, building and testing missions, adding new features like rendered cockpits...

...no, we cannot make any dealine estimates yet;)
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: M-562 on April 01, 2007, 07:14:49 PM
was worth a shot (off topic anyone got xfire?)
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: mprey on April 01, 2007, 08:03:10 PM
Don't know if this is actually a bug, or just 'intentional' but in the first mission after Basic Flight Training (the one with the asteroids), I get music at first but eventually (when the Cylons appear) it stops, there's just no more music at all and it's pretty...anticlimactic. As said dunno if it's a bug or whatever...has anyone else noticed this?
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: KypFisto on April 01, 2007, 08:04:16 PM
I think I had music the whole time so it may be a bug, however I'm at work so I can't play the mission again to see what it does on my computer. I'll certainly check it later though.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: TheFili on April 01, 2007, 08:41:40 PM
Quote
Incidentally how did you get Nova killed?

To make sure: Nova is the one that makes your wingman comment: "And she was such a nice piece of ass, too", right? Well, I didn't intentionally get her killed (I'm not a cylon agent! ;) ).

When I'm off to find the lost pilot and the ominous raider already appeared, I get the message that she bought it.

If I'm not mistaken there are some Cylons attacking the Monarch in that stage, at least there were when I summoned my wingmen the first time to kill "Fractal 4". So I guess they just shot her down.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: karajorma on April 01, 2007, 08:47:42 PM
Next time try not giving orders to your wingmen to come help you fight Scar. :p
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Imperator on April 01, 2007, 08:54:34 PM
I only have one bad: lag gives kills to other people, mucks up stats and shooting in lag means your opponent's hull doesn't get a scratch!
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: karajorma on April 01, 2007, 09:09:21 PM
Quote from: Imperator;62234
I only have one bad: lag gives kills to other people, mucks up stats and shooting in lag means your opponent's hull doesn't get a scratch!

We'll be making huge improvements to the multi code between now and the release of 3.6.10.

If you were to look up my comments on the multi code on HLP you'll see frequent rants on the fact that no one in the remaining FS2 community could be bothered to report errors with multi.

12 months ago there were 3 reported bugs in Mantis for multiplayer. Not cause there were only 3 bugs in the game but cause no one could be bothered to tell us of the problems.

If you guys tell us the problems we'll fix them. If no one bothers, we can't. I'm only waiting a little while for the honeymoon period to be over and then I'll start expecting the people who love the game to do just the tiniest bit of work to make it better. :D
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: TheFili on April 01, 2007, 09:24:58 PM
Just replayed the "BoaL"-mission a few times to get the situation right, and I had the chance to watch Nova die. (btw: forget my hallucinations about new raiders...)

She just drifted around the Monarch and the crater aimlessly, with low speed, and bumped into rock and/or the ship, so that's how she managed to kill herself. Told you it wasn't me. ;)

Another thing I have seen two or three times is that my wingmen in the same mission apparently try to shoot asteroids through the Monarch.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: DaBrain on April 01, 2007, 09:29:53 PM
The AI has some... issues. ;)
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Mjolnir2000 on April 01, 2007, 09:35:01 PM
Quote from: DaBrain;62259
The AI has some... issues. ;)


At least we won't have to worry about it rebelling any time soon...
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: timbo1138 on April 01, 2007, 09:44:36 PM
Quote
Usually I wouldn't put that amount of chatter in a mission during combat but in the case of Birth of a Legend it was rather central to the plot.

Oh, you're absolutely right, I agree. It's done really well, and second time through I was able to follow it rather better. It's very, very authentic to the feel of Scar, you sure got that right. Brilliant job. :)
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Fish on April 02, 2007, 09:47:32 AM
Mmm, that campaign felt goood ^_^.

My 2c:

I think the amount of dialogue was fine - pilots will chatter and you might not hear all of it. It makes the pilot feel (realistically) less important than when all the dialogue is purposefully directed at you.

I think the briefing dialogue could be sped up a little. There were times where it felt too patient. The background noise was nice - maybe include more of it? I know pilots won't be talking all the time, but just at the beginning/end would be good.

There were a couple of typos around the place - if you want them hunted down and listed just ask me.

Some sort of intro/ending movie would be nice. Maybe a very cut-down version of one of the trailers (fast scene changes with rapid black crossfades all set to some taiko drums) would be good - of course with a link to the team's homepage included at the end along with the BtRL logo.

The installation instructions were simple enough, but could it be made that installation of OpenAL was automatic, or at least prompted by default? When installing most commercial games, for example, the user is notified that 'now installing DirectX 9, click OK or Cancel'. Unless it causes problems to people who already have it, it would remove a slightly confusing decision for FS2 newbies.

Also, a desktop icon would be nice, for the newbies. Including a file named 'fs2_open' is confusing, given that you've publicised the fact that it does NOT require FS2 (so why is it on my computer? etc).

Nonetheless, very impressed :)
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: karajorma on April 02, 2007, 10:29:33 AM
Your last two errors were basically caused by picking the wrong installer (or the right one far too late). They won't be repeated next time.

I'll be more than happy to get a list of typos or (if you know how) an edited mission file.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Fish on April 02, 2007, 10:39:16 AM
Is there any way to view all the written dialogue/tech info/etc from a file, rather than in-game? Might make it quicker, that's all.

Picking the wrong installer? How do you mean? I got the .exe from the torrent, ran it, followed the instructions...?
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: karajorma on April 02, 2007, 11:08:04 AM
No I mean WE picked the wrong program. :) Turey's FS2 installer wasn't a good choice for the windows install but the program we replaced it with wasn't really a better choice as we couldn't make it do what was the main purpose for having it (i.e make installation to all 3 platforms easy).
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Roy Fokker on April 02, 2007, 01:08:29 PM
Since I'm a graphic designer, I have to criticise some minor things that bothered me in that regard (keep in mind that I don't have any experience with FS2):

- the menu design could have been clearer and better laid out... especially the "go to briefing to start" thing... I had to run some circles before I could catch where everything is and what it does... also, it could have been more... colonial. I guess you guys just made it work, and I respect that. However, I feel that an upgrade for the game is in order.:nod:

- the Bank Gothic font apparently used for all messages and text is extremely popular and often used, but it's legibility is horrible, especially at high resolutions. A more generic gothic font would do the job better, and I'm pretty sure it would look much better, too.

- at certain points in the final "level" of the demo, the sound of exploding asteroids comes in too loud at random times, which sounds especially weird once you notice that you don't hear many of the direct Cylon hits on your own hull...
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Echelon4 on April 02, 2007, 03:52:47 PM
Fantastic works. Absolutely SUPERB.

If I may make a few comments worth of input:

Overall the soundwork is great, but as they say in the audio industry, 75% of immersion in entertainment is the audio:

1) The incoming round fire from the Cylon Raiders sound quirky. Was this an actual audio clip from the series or something that was self-made? There are others who have sampled the appropriate incoming fire from Cylon Raiders quite well and I can provide some examples if you wish to change this sound.

2) Hull hits sound inappropriate and lack lustre. Being hit would be loud, metallic, and clanging with metal buckling and being penetrated.

3) Perhaps manuevering jet sounds could be added when they're being fired during any manuevering. A group I was in for computing science had to program a game. Since we had newtonian physics we went all out and not only added the actual sound of real thrusters but the explosive "puff" of the motors being ignited each time they were engaged. A few members were uncertain how it would sound, but the first run was...just...fricking cool. It *felt* like the ship was an actual spaceship. You guys could even scale the volume of the thruster sound as you have done with the main engines.

As for the handling of the craft, generally wonderful. It definitely gives you the sense of being in a high-performance fighter. A couple of comments:

1) Is it possible to have a dynamic attitude correction aggressiveness? Right now the kill-rotation kill-lateral is static at somewhere in-between a full thruster burn and no correction. You can tell this because if you leave control of the craft, the vector auto-corrects rapidly, but not as quickly as if you throw the stick to the other side to boost the stablization of bearing (ie. unlike Orbiter, where selecting the kill-rot and kill-lat control modules will fire full burns to neutralize a bearing regardless of additional input...the thrusters are already firing full out).

I suppose what I'm wondering is if you can have an in-flight version of what Starshatter has that is scalable between absolute newtonian physics and completely persistant auto-correction of course?

2) Adding a bearing marker to indicate the vector on the HUD?

3) Adding fuel and heating dynamics. In that game I was a part of discussed earlier, we had the space vehicle have to negotiate fuel and heating dynamics. Running the main engine at full burn or afterburning would cause the temperature to rise and eventually shut down the engine for a short while until the engine cooled down to a safe point to spool the engine back up. Additionally, everything cost fuel. Running the main engine cost fuel, using thrusters cost fuel. Everything had to be managed delicately even though when all the meters were in the green it was a high performance vehicle...start pushing things too far as many of us like to do...and you have to be very, very cautious and use a lot of skill to keep it all balanced.

I already think it's fantastic what you guys have done. Absolutely brilliant. I just think these added things might make a more solid effort. Well done regardless and bravo.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: karajorma on April 02, 2007, 04:58:14 PM
The first two are basically due to the way the game was coded to a fairly large degree. We'll be changing things for the full release.

The last one might be code and might be SFX. Not certain. If it's the latter it's probably an easier fix than the former.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Imperator on April 02, 2007, 05:42:39 PM
One other bad, not dev's fault: frakkers constantly password protecting their games.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: karajorma on April 02, 2007, 06:22:55 PM
*note to self for next build.

//Due to excessive abuse
/*
Password code
*/

:D
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: black_library on April 02, 2007, 06:27:21 PM
That thing about adding fuel to the game>> DONT DO THAT EVER> this is not Starshatter, this is Beyond the Red Line, this is arcade game not some realistic space combat simulator, fuel would be boring thing, and would kill much fun if I have to constantly check my fuel reserves....
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: FOX2PRO on April 02, 2007, 06:31:45 PM
Does glide work in mp?
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Turey on April 02, 2007, 06:45:36 PM
Quote from: FOX2PRO;62732
Does glide work in mp?


If it didn't, someone on the SCP team would no longer be living... :mad2:

Luckily for them, it does. :D
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Dukeman42 on April 02, 2007, 06:45:37 PM
Quote from: black_library;62729
That thing about adding fuel to the game>> DONT DO THAT EVER> this is not Starshatter, this is Beyond the Red Line, this is arcade game not some realistic space combat simulator, fuel would be boring thing, and would kill much fun if I have to constantly check my fuel reserves....


More than that, there is rarely a discussion about fuel levels on the show, unless it's plot-driven (the search for Tylium, Apollo searching for Starbuck in S1 and hitting Bingo fuel).  They don't make a big deal of the fuel during dogfights in the show, so we chose not to as well...
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Imperator on April 02, 2007, 06:50:32 PM
Quote from: black_library;62729
That thing about adding fuel to the game>> DONT DO THAT EVER> this is not Starshatter, this is Beyond the Red Line, this is arcade game not some realistic space combat simulator, fuel would be boring thing, and would kill much fun if I have to constantly check my fuel reserves....

Why not? I get pissed when I run out of ammo so why not piss me off more? Cmon, you know you want to! :biggrin1:
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: karajorma on April 02, 2007, 07:19:42 PM
Quote from: black_library;62729
That thing about adding fuel to the game>> DONT DO THAT EVER> this is not Starshatter, this is Beyond the Red Line, this is arcade game not some realistic space combat simulator, fuel would be boring thing, and would kill much fun if I have to constantly check my fuel reserves....


This subject was mentioned a while back and what I said was yes we should add fuel and the SEXPs to allow the mission designer to control it.

Then we should set the default level so high it won't run out in any normal mission.

And then we make a mission where something happens at the end of a mission where you start out low on fuel.


That way you get the best of both worlds. In almost every mission fuel is not an issue but when it is, the mission is designed around it.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: StarSlayer on April 02, 2007, 07:27:08 PM
Besides we tanking off from Buddy Stored Raptors is in my wish list ;)
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: timbo1138 on April 02, 2007, 09:47:24 PM
Quote
Then we should set the default level so high it won't run out in any normal mission.

And then we make a mission where something happens at the end of a mission where you start out low on fuel.
Excellent, that's definitely the best of both worlds. I like having limited ammo. I only ran out once, back when I was a nugget just hosing my fire all over the place. I quickly learned that was both ineffective and wasteful. But just seeing the indicator drop during the mission is a reminder of the dire situation the fleet is always in when it comes to resources. Fuel would be the same. Even seeing the indicator drop by 10% would remind you that you are burning tillium. Even if it has no effect on gameplay, it'll have a subtle effect on atmosphere.

And then yeah, having just one mission where suddenly things are different, and it's close enough to the line to be slightly touch and go, that would be great.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Volw on April 02, 2007, 10:01:10 PM
Honestly, I would prefer to have the game a week earlier than implementing some close-to-pointless feature, that noone will notice.

I guess it would be much faster to script 'running out of fuel' into one of the missions instead.

Just my .2 toasters.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: karajorma on April 02, 2007, 10:35:51 PM
Thing is that we aren't the only FS2 mod and there are others that want fuel too. :)
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: black_library on April 02, 2007, 10:40:40 PM
Well I just think that fuel is NOT needed in this game, but its just me...
Also I wanted to know, is there going to be some updates for demo that will add
raptors, heavy raiders and capitol ships???
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Dukeman42 on April 02, 2007, 10:58:49 PM
Yeah...it's called the main game release;)
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: black_library on April 02, 2007, 11:02:48 PM
Well i dont think I'll be able to wait 6 years for that, so can I get some updates before that? I would really love to see BSG fighting Basestar ASAP:)
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Dukeman42 on April 02, 2007, 11:38:09 PM
Very funny.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: saruman178 on April 03, 2007, 12:06:24 AM
Well the game (demo) is amazing.

The typos didn't devastate.


Scar Being a Bastard makes winning much more enjoyable as a matter of fact it's like that with all raiders.

To put it symply.

Killing shivans isn't as fun as taking out a fraking toaster.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Imperator on April 03, 2007, 10:19:31 AM
Quote from: black_library;62872
Well i dont think I'll be able to wait 6 years for that, so can I get some updates before that? I would really love to see BSG fighting Basestar ASAP:)

In the full release, (hopefully demo) will there be a TvT where you have a battlestar and basestar just sit there and rearm and refuel your ships while the fighters dogfight? I'd like to see that...
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Black Wolf on April 03, 2007, 10:41:48 AM
Quote from: Imperator;63056
In the full release, (hopefully demo) will there be a TvT where you have a battlestar and basestar just sit there and rearm and refuel your ships while the fighters dogfight? I'd like to see that...


Yes. If the devs don't do it, it'd be easy to FRED so someone else will.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Andeerz on April 04, 2007, 05:18:57 AM
I absolutely LOVE this mod!!!! I kicks major butt and is superfuntastic!  

However, referring back to Mjolnir2000's post in the first page, the only thing that bothers me significantly is the fact that I can't maneuver in glide mode with the up, down, left, and right thrusters.  It just seems like you should be able to.  Also, just to be nitpicky, the rear main thrusters shouldn't have to be on while gliding or while maintaining constant velocity.

Another sort of suggestion would be to increase the max speeds and perhaps even the scales of distances.  Although the fact that there is a cap on the max velocity is not entirely realistic, I can understand why there is one.  However, I do find the speed scale used to be rather slow, although if it isn't changed, I won't be dissappointed.  It's just that a 200 meters per second limit seems rather slow for a space craft considering it is travelling in a vaccuum.

On another note, the visuals and music are gorgeous!!!!!  Makes me squee with joy!!!  Sorry if I sounded like a b*tch though...
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: StarSlayer on April 04, 2007, 05:34:34 AM
last time i checked the speed limits are more do to AI limitations thenour want to keep you slow.  Too much speed and the AI can't handle it.  However, those nice coding folks at SCP might be able to assit with that, or maybe not.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Black Wolf on April 04, 2007, 08:19:51 AM
Quote from: Andeerz;63383

Another sort of suggestion would be to increase the max speeds and perhaps even the scales of distances.  Although the fact that there is a cap on the max velocity is not entirely realistic, I can understand why there is one.  However, I do find the speed scale used to be rather slow, although if it isn't changed, I won't be dissappointed.  It's just that a 200 meters per second limit seems rather slow for a space craft considering it is travelling in a vaccuum.


Believe me, it'd be no fun. You'd never get a hit. 200m/sec is hard enough as it is.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Inkthinker on April 04, 2007, 09:38:55 AM
I just wanted to say that making one of the Viper "debris" a frozen, floating pilot was awesome. Shocked the hell out of me when he went past my damn canopy in the middle of a complete clusterfrak furball.

I've been able to target one only once, but the damn element was heading for the outer rim at a faster pace than I could fly (I was chasing it at full boost and it was gaining distance on me). So I still haven't gotten a good look at it (aside from the target window), but just the same... nice touch.

:D

I got no bads.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: black_library on April 04, 2007, 12:38:01 PM
If the ships get any faster you will have one kill per hour, ships are too fast already only way to kill some1 is to meet him head on, and that is stupid, ships should be 15% slower at least...
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: AGNANugget on April 04, 2007, 02:34:47 PM
I went Winchester in the first mission last night, tootling through the asteroids. Got three kills before I did, but I used waaaay too much ammo doing it. Marksmanship has always been my weak point. That, and situational awareness (in combat I tend to subscribe to what some movie once called "the Italian school of race car driving--what's behind me is not important").

Okay, my two weak points are marksmanship and situational awareness...and ACM. All right, among my weak points are....:D

The dev team has done a fine job. My first go at a FRED (whenever that happens) will be something simple that I can use for gunnery practice.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Prometheus on April 04, 2007, 02:37:08 PM
I have found the speeds to quite acceptable.  If you speed the ships up anymore, the pilot would be a splatter on the cockpit canopy.  Not to say that they already aren't at the present speeds and accelerations.  You slow the ships down, and it becomes too easy shoot down other ships and get shot down yourself.  The devs balanced everything very well for the demo in my opinion.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Dukeman42 on April 04, 2007, 03:41:49 PM
Quote from: AGNANugget;63526
Marksmanship has always been my weak point. That, and situational awareness (in combat I tend to subscribe to what some movie once called "the Italian school of race car driving--what's behind me is not important").

Okay, my two weak points are marksmanship and situational awareness...and ACM. All right, among my weak points are....:D


You just wait and see what we're working on for situational awareness!!:devel:
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Andeerz on April 04, 2007, 08:31:34 PM
Quote from: Prometheus;63529
I have found the speeds to quite acceptable.  If you speed the ships up anymore, the pilot would be a splatter on the cockpit canopy.  Not to say that they already aren't at the present speeds and accelerations.  You slow the ships down, and it becomes too easy shoot down other ships and get shot down yourself.  The devs balanced everything very well for the demo in my opinion.


Hmmm... Yeah, I guess I can agree that the speeds are fine.  :nod:   I have no problem with the current accelerations, no matter the top speed.  I'd say the thrust acceleration is at about 5-6 g's as it is now, so I don't think the pilots are splattered on the cockpit canopy.  But I have a question.  Is there any way I could manipulate the top speeds of the spacecraft and missiles myself just for shits and giggles?  I would just like to try it out to see exactly how it affects combat.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: timbo1138 on April 04, 2007, 09:51:23 PM
Quote
To put it symply.

Killing shivans isn't as fun as taking out a fraking toaster.
So say we all! :D


Quote
Believe me, it'd be no fun. You'd never get a hit. 200m/sec is hard enough as it is.
Definitely agree. The speeds feel very high to me, compared with other games in the genre. They aren't capital-R Realistic, but they lend a feeling of realism. You feel like you're flying a very powerful ship that takes a little bit of getting used to. I've said it before elsewhere, but I think the team have done a really good job of walking the line between providing semi-realistic physics and still having a game that's easy pick up and play. If it's too realistic, the learning curve is too steep. As it is right now, it's an easy game to pick up, but has real depth to the tricks and manouvres that can be pulled in flight, so it rewards skilled players and people who take the time to learn what can be done. Every time I check these boards, it makes me want to fire it up again and try a new trick or tactic somebody mentioned.

Quote
You just wait and see what we're working on for situational awareness!!
Oooh, that sounds exciting...
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Unknown Target on April 04, 2007, 11:12:23 PM
Quote from: Dukeman42;63543
You just wait and see what we're working on for situational awareness!!:devel:


Can I post it? I already showed it off in the IRC channel :p
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Dukeman42 on April 04, 2007, 11:57:36 PM
That's 3/4s what I was referring to...I would gloat if I were you:)  Show the masses!!
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: timbo1138 on April 05, 2007, 12:59:33 AM
Show us! Show us!
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Unknown Target on April 05, 2007, 01:03:09 AM
Enjoy folks! :)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/UnknownTarget/NewViper3done.jpg)

EDIT: Is the image showing up? I can't see it.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Dukeman42 on April 05, 2007, 01:59:26 AM
I see it!!
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Pandemonium on April 05, 2007, 02:27:40 AM
I see it too, and I must say, wow, that looks absolutely fantastic. This game just seems to get better by the minute, great job.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: timbo1138 on April 05, 2007, 04:14:20 AM
Ooooooooooh. Pwetty.

*Drools*


Is there any chance they will be added to the demo with a patch, or will we have to wait for the full release?
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Epictetus on April 05, 2007, 05:41:10 AM
I just wanted to give a huge congratulations to the dev team, this is one hell of a demo.  I've been lurking these forums for many moons, following the progress and everyone's musings on Season Three.  I figured now would be an appropriate time to join.  You all have captured the spirit of the series better than I had hoped, bravo.

Hey, I see some familiar faces.  Hiya Ace, think this board can handle another Clancore refugee?
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Ace on April 05, 2007, 08:38:08 AM
*sniffles* I have to kill toasters instead of glitches... *sniffles*
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Imperator on April 05, 2007, 09:36:58 AM
Quote from: Unknown Target;63783
Enjoy folks! :)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/UnknownTarget/NewViper3done.jpg)

EDIT: Is the image showing up? I can't see it.

I wonder what's in store for the Raider then...
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: black_library on April 05, 2007, 11:05:20 AM
Well I think we should see some brains, veins, severed arms and stuff inside raider:)
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: black_library on April 05, 2007, 10:28:09 PM
But these cockpits have one major flaw, they cover around 40% of screen! You cant really see much because of them, plus you will need some indicators, like speed, on screen and that will cover more of your vision so you'll be half-blind so to speak....
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Dukeman42 on April 06, 2007, 03:31:22 AM
That's why they'll be optional, Black...some people like the sim feel and realistic restrictions of being in the cockpit; others like the arcade 'open' space feel (personally I feel it ruins the authenticity), and we know that.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: slime73 on April 06, 2007, 03:37:44 AM
I vote for Raiders having a completely different HUD.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Dukeman42 on April 06, 2007, 03:52:15 AM
That's been talked about too...at this point, if I understand correctly, it's a code issue.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: torman_ra on April 06, 2007, 04:58:55 AM
Just wanna say, Thank you. Thank you  very much, and it was worth the wait. Oh  one question though, can you  recycle cylons for beer cans?
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Imperator on April 06, 2007, 09:19:50 AM
If you want juicy beer cans with veins popping out then yeah...
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Pearse on April 06, 2007, 02:41:56 PM
I like the idea of being able to fly in the cockpit, even if it doesn't turn out to be so easy to use. At least some of the information needed could be signified using those lights and the screen in the middle, not to mention a HUD of some sort in front of the window. It could still have a good balance between functionality and snazzyness.

The fuel idea sounds good too. I'm glad you guys have identified that while having fuel in the game would make it more authentic, it shouldn't be a major concern for the player in every level, just like it doesn't seem to be a major concern in every episode.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Scaramouche on April 06, 2007, 02:57:28 PM
[QUOTE Killing shivans isn't as fun as taking out a fraking toaster.[/QUOTE]

I'll second that, and being more difficult it's much more satisfying when you actually do!
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: six6six on April 06, 2007, 04:40:41 PM
How big will the actual game be? the demo is fairly substantial in itself.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: karajorma on April 06, 2007, 05:14:41 PM
It will be bigger. Obviously I can't give estimates but our voice acting amounts to about 1/4 of the games total size and I expect that the full game will have more than the demo.

Fortunately the other sections won't grow at the same speed. Effects, and interface for instance are likely to stay about the same size or slightly increase/decrease.

All in all I can't predict but it will be bigger. Especially since it's likely we'll probably throw in about 200MB worth of the demo (i.e the voice acting and missions).
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Fish on April 07, 2007, 01:12:08 AM
Has any decision been made about including cutscenes or an intro movie? They'd add substantially to the download size, but would be sooo worth it!
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Andeerz on April 07, 2007, 01:59:55 AM
Are there any plans to change gliding in the game at all?  I noticed that acceleration out of glide is instantaneous and that after afterburning to max speed, you are able to glide at that speed.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Turey on April 07, 2007, 03:02:37 AM
Quote from: Andeerz;64688
Are there any plans to change gliding in the game at all?  I noticed that acceleration out of glide is instantaneous and that after afterburning to max speed, you are able to glide at that speed.


Why wouldn't you be able to Glide at max speed? Who wants a Glide that slows them to half speed?
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: ViperJockey on April 07, 2007, 04:35:24 AM
There *is* a sort of problem with glide...if you disengage it while facing backwards along your course (like you had engaged glide and whipped your nose around 180 to shoot at bandits chasing you), you're instantly at full thrust. I'd think it should take a moment to decelerate to 0 and then accelerate in the new direction...
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Unknown Target on April 07, 2007, 05:27:42 AM
Just PMed a coder about it. We'll see what happens.
Turey said he's working on the stick code now, he says (if you guys got on IRC more, you'd know this already - hint hint ;)).
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: warmonger on April 07, 2007, 06:17:50 AM
Quote from: TheFili;62224
(I'm not a cylon agent! ;) )


how do you know?:mad2:
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: venomxxx on April 07, 2007, 03:03:21 PM
Hello everyone,

a few days ago i have heard the first time about this game (on a german IT-news site) and i was instantly hooked =)

A few things came to my mind while playing:

Avionics:
Great =) Flies like the old X-Wing

Sound:
The Music is excellent, very true to the show.

In my opinion the sound of the cannons could be mixed louder and be a bit deeper.
Is it a glitch with my soundcard or does getting hit produce no sound ?
There should be a loud, nasty, metal clang when something impacts in your bird. (someone remember Privateer, when something hit your hull? The sound of certain doom =) )

what would be nice to have:
- Replay function/Mission recorder. View your favorite kills from different camera angles.
- Fixed outside Camera Positions (every flight sim have them, they are not very usefull but look damn cool =D )  
- With both above: A Gun Cam! (they used them in the show, last time S3E19 i think, when they reviewed at what starbuck shot in the clouds)
It just looks awesome in flight sims when the plane is fixed and the world is spining and turning while you're splashing MiGs/FW190/Toasters.

enough ranting =)

bye
Venomxxx
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Pearse on April 07, 2007, 04:02:33 PM
You can fix the camera behind your ship in two different ways. Either by hitting the asterisk key on your num pad, or the ./del key on your num pad, using the movement controls to bring the camera behind your ship and then hitting enter on the num pad. The camera will remain in a fixed position behind your ship with all the other controls acting as normal.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Fairchild on April 08, 2007, 01:20:16 AM
Quote from: Turey;64705
Why wouldn't you be able to Glide at max speed? Who wants a Glide that slows them to half speed?


It isn't gliding at full speed that is the problem. It is gliding at turbo speed that is the problem. It was a bug in Wing commander too. If you turbo to 240 m/s, and hit glide, you can continue to run in that direction at a speed you can't hit normally. Not a problem against ai necessarily, but a problem in multi player as an advantage bug.

Also I noticed the AI for your wing men and fellow viper pilots is not as good as raider AI. When attacked, they don't do much. I decided to see how good they were in the second mission. I finally got them to turn red after shooting one down to like 60 percent. They didn't even stop their chatter till that point. Most flew in a straight line for a long time. I only needed half my ammo stores to kill all 3. In compairison, it took the other half to get 1 raider.

Another bug. Sometimes if you kill all your wing men, in the second mission, the nav points don't advance. When they do nav point 6 is in an asteriod.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: a50callovenote on April 08, 2007, 01:52:41 AM
Will you guys make different cockpits for the raptor and the viper VII? also in the final game, will we be able to land ourselves and launch in real time? how would that work?
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Water Viper on April 08, 2007, 05:32:17 AM
Loving this sim.Even getting into Fredding my own missions..Just on the topic of damage and getting hit,should there be a series of alarms that get played when your just about to get vaporised.A small thing but would add to the immersion.Like "your ships about to blow,get her back to Galactica for the chief to kick the feldercarb out of you."
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: warmonger on April 08, 2007, 11:14:33 AM
there's really nothing bad i can say about BtRL.  oh, wait... there is. it's not long enuff. gotta have more atleast it'll be done before duke nukem forever:lol:
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: castor on April 08, 2007, 02:38:49 PM
Quote from: Fairchild;65129
It is gliding at turbo speed that is the problem. It was a bug in Wing commander too. If you turbo to 240 m/s, and hit glide, you can continue to run in that direction at a speed you can't hit normally. Not a problem against ai necessarily, but a problem in multi player as an advantage bug.
I've met some MP people who complain about this before, but have yet to uderstand the actual problem. Where is the advantage? What does it provide to some other people that it isn't providing to you? In alla fairness, shouldn't we rather be talking about personal preferences?
The way I see it, AB glide is a natural and expected part of the glide concept - one more welcomed tactical element brought into the game.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Fairchild on April 08, 2007, 02:48:11 PM
You cannot fly at that speed normally for an indefinate period of time. But with glide on you can.
It is not that others cannot do it. It is that if others do not realize you are doing it, or can do it, you have an advantage. You can fly 40 mps faster than anyone else. You can out distance someone and they cannot catch up. Until they realize, if they know, what is going on, they can't even keep up.
If you are asking what can I do with that, well that depends on the mission. It doesn't all have to be kill them all. You could do a red planet type race or football. This is a place where it has obvious advantages.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Malmer on April 08, 2007, 02:57:31 PM
The AB should be disabled completely - in real space there is nothing that would slow you down after the use of the AB. The speed gained would be incremental every time you use the AB...
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Fish on April 08, 2007, 03:11:06 PM
If other pilots don't know how to fly their ships then that's their problem. Knowing and paying attention to the finer details of flight control rightly makes the better pilot.

And going on about absolute realism is a bit silly in a game. A line has to be drawn between realism and game enjoyment.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Malmer on April 08, 2007, 03:17:35 PM
Quote from: Fish;65322
If other pilots don't know how to fly their ships then that's their problem. Knowing and paying attention to the finer details of flight control rightly makes the better pilot.

And going on about absolute realism is a bit silly in a game. A line has to be drawn between realism and game enjoyment.

You don't get my point: it should be glide OR AB. Having them both makes a monstrous flightmodel.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: castor on April 08, 2007, 03:35:52 PM
Quote
You cannot fly at that speed normally for an indefinate period of time. But with glide on you can.

The point exactly :). I see we have very different approaches on this. For me, the glide mode is an alternative flight mode, completely, where a different selection of rules of flight apply.  Neither of these could be said to be exactly true to reality (without loads of techincal mumbo jumbo). So after all, I see no contardiction there, just differences that fall from the choices made.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Mithent on April 09, 2007, 02:26:07 AM
Quote from: black_library;63992
Well I think we should see some brains, veins, severed arms and stuff inside raider:)


I guess the problem with that is that presumably, when you're piloting a Raider, you are a Cylon, not a human inside a Raider? We don't generally see our insides all the time.

Fuel-wise: they generally only seem to have a problem with fuel in the series when out on long patrol or search missions. Obviously when the alert fighters are scrambled their engagements are not even close to exhausing fuel, and presumably they wouldn't plan patrol routes or other missions without leaving a decent fuel reserve (sure, there's limited fuel available, but Vipers are high-priority and it would be a real pain if one ran out of fuel on duty). So fuel issues would presumably be best seen in a mission which meets unexpected problems.

It does remind me, though - what is the Energy bar in the HUD about? Vipers don't have shield or weapon energy.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Blindshot on April 09, 2007, 03:13:17 AM
I thought it was odd too that I could use the AB and hit Glide to keep the speed. You'd think this is what would happen even if you weren't in glide mode but anyway, I don't really mind that much. I just wish I could use my thrusters while gliding ...
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: karajorma on April 09, 2007, 07:47:55 AM
Quote from: Mithent;65538
It does remind me, though - what is the Energy bar in the HUD about? Vipers don't have shield or weapon energy.


It's a hold over from FS2. There were plans to possibly turn it into a gun heat monitor but in the end we decided that it wasn't needed.

If you fire too much you run out of ammo. Then you die. No need for any other limit on guns.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Pommesgabel on March 04, 2008, 04:09:40 PM
Quote from: Fairchild;65129
It isn't gliding at full speed that is the problem. It is gliding at turbo speed that is the problem. It was a bug in Wing commander too. If you turbo to 240 m/s, and hit glide, you can continue to run in that direction at a speed you can't hit normally.

Actually, as somebody already pointed out, AB should be incremental anyway (at least in Newtonian physics...). Since it's pseudo-Newtonian, I don't have a problem with that.

Btw, Congrats to the best thing since RDM ;)
It really catches the feeling I was looking for. Tough, rough and just plain thrilling.

This is my first space sim/dogfight game since X-Wing and I really enjoy it. Although I had the same problems as some of the other Nuggets, with ammo running out and really big difficulties hitting anything. But even after 2-3 tries it's getting better. I even managed to shoot Scar down to less than 50% in my last run-through (I know, I'm a noob... ;)

So, all you fellow noobs: as more experienced pilots have already pointed out, play around with Sensitivity and Deadzone, get a good joystick (sure, this is a matter of personal taste) and train, train, train.

Keep up the wonderful work and thanks for letting us all be part of this.
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: karajorma on March 04, 2008, 04:15:34 PM
No problem, glad you're enjoying the demo.

Just don't bump up old topics to tell us though. Quite a few forumites find that annoying. Anything more than a month old should probably be left in peace. :)
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Pommesgabel on March 04, 2008, 04:19:09 PM
Quote from: karajorma;93287
No problem, glad you're enjoying the demo.

Just don't bump up old topics to tell us though. Quite a few forumites find that annoying. Anything more than a month old should probably be left in peace. :)


Oops... sorry, won't happen again (that is, after this reply ;) )
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Ace on March 05, 2008, 02:35:05 AM
Gaaah! It lives! It lives!

Kill it!
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: Cl1nt on March 05, 2008, 04:05:04 AM
With fire!
Title: The good and the bad
Post by: karajorma on March 05, 2008, 07:19:45 AM
*Slays thread*