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Hosted => Battlestar Galactica: Beyond the Red Line => Topic started by: karajorma on February 11, 2007, 08:28:48 PM

Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 11, 2007, 08:28:48 PM
Okay guys. Here's a chance for you to bounce some ideas around.

The developers have our own thread in the internal for this where we can talk about secret stuff but on this thread I'd like you to post ideas for features you'd like to see in the full game.

Last time we did this someone mentioned having ships that were stealthed until you got within a certain range of them. This is actually quite hard to do in the FS2_Open engine as if you turn stealth on no one can see that ship regardless of the distance and if you turn it off everyone can. However if we have new coders joining us and looking for something to add that's something we wouldn't mind having. :)

So here's your chance to make some suggestions. The cooler and more reasonable the suggestion the better chance we have of finding someone who can code it. Knowledge of FS2 will help but isn't mandatory :)

BTW We'll do this again once the demo is out and you have a better idea what can be done. :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: StarSlayer on February 11, 2007, 08:34:16 PM
Oh i want a drunk Galactica pilot mode!, sorta like the hospital run mission in Vice City!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Ender on February 11, 2007, 08:38:54 PM
viper traiing missions like the ones where they use infrared lasers on other vipers, all that would really have to be done in my eyes is chagins the sounds and FX, then again i know as much about modding as george bush does about spelling b's
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: bsilver2988 on February 11, 2007, 08:39:52 PM
ok i've got a couple things i'd love to see.  

first, in the videos, we can see galactica firing off both her main salvo batteries, and her many anti-fighter turrets.  one thing we've seen galactica do on multiple occasions is flak fire, which explodes at a certain perimeter regardless of if it hits anything.  i'm not sure if you've put this in yet, people have eluded to it a few times, but i'd love to see it.

second...damage textures?? might be impossible..i'm not familiar with freespace 2, so idk...but when the weapons hit galactica and the basestar, nothing really happens to it.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Imperator on February 11, 2007, 08:44:28 PM
Historical battles for multi.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 11, 2007, 09:00:25 PM
All do-able so far (or requiring code changes already in progress). Keep em coming. :yes:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Imperator on February 11, 2007, 09:50:57 PM
Tactical FTL jumps for the Raider, Raptor and Blackbird (if it's in there).
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: swiss gripen on February 11, 2007, 10:08:14 PM
SAR missions using the raptor
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on February 11, 2007, 10:27:03 PM
Quote from: bsilver2988;56792
ok i've got a couple things i'd love to see.  

first, in the videos, we can see galactica firing off both her main salvo batteries, and her many anti-fighter turrets.  one thing we've seen galactica do on multiple occasions is flak fire, which explodes at a certain perimeter regardless of if it hits anything.  i'm not sure if you've put this in yet, people have eluded to it a few times, but i'd love to see it.

second...damage textures?? might be impossible..i'm not familiar with freespace 2, so idk...but when the weapons hit galactica and the basestar, nothing really happens to it.



The damage textures are done, and as for the flak screen...


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/UnknownTarget/screen0115.jpg)

Anyway, please continue :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Roy Fokker on February 11, 2007, 10:39:29 PM
The flak explosions look frakkin' amazing.:yes:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: saruman178 on February 11, 2007, 10:51:33 PM
Yeah that's awesome.


I'm gona have to stick with Historical Campaign.

Which shouldn't be too hard to do and would be a good excuse to watch all the episodes.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 11, 2007, 11:03:49 PM
-Dynamic cockpit viewpoint.

Meaning two things:

1. In-game adjustable field of view, similar in fashion to IL-2 Sturmovik's general view, wide angle view and aiming view, for example.

2. Forces (accelerations) that affect pilot's head will slightly move the point of view. Meaning that if you hit the afterburner, the viewpoint moves perhaps 5-10 cm behind, so that if "show ship" flag is in use, the viewpoint's changing location will give an impression of real acceleration. Same with reducing speed, but the viewpoint should then move a bit forward. Or, if you're driving with the "stick in the balls" ie, turning upwards, the viewpoint would go a few centimetres down, and vice versa.

The viewpoint could be (in code) attached to a single "spring constant" field that tries to return it to the zero-g point, where no acceleration is exerted on pilot's head. If the pilot pulls g's, the viewpoint should move within set boundaries according to the force exerted on it in ship's reference frame. That part should be easy, but obviously it would require that the point of view is no longer fixed in the POFs...

In addition to creating more authentic immersion by increasing the feel of acceleration, collisions would also become more violent and believable - when your craft would hit something, the rapid acceleration would result in fast yank of the viewpoint to some direction before safety harness/belts stopped its movement. Just like in reality. Obviously, this feature should perhaps only be enabled when the cockpit view is in use. This feature would be extremely useful in standard FS2 too. The collisions particularly have always lacked the feel of mass behind the impact.


Another thing is obviously (optional) blackouts and redouts, which should definitely be somewhat easier to accomplish than dynamic viewpoint. They would add to the immersion significantly, and they would give the Raiders some edge because they would be able to withstand higher vertical acceleration than human pilots. Perhaps the blackout/redout critical acceleration value and the time for them to take effect should vary depending on difficulty setting?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Ender on February 12, 2007, 02:40:36 AM
Quote from: Unknown Target;56802
The damage textures are done, and as for the flak screen...


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/UnknownTarget/screen0115.jpg)

Anyway, please continue :)



*orgasms*


moving on, how about a battlestar with chicks and booze and guns and fire trucks
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Dodger on February 12, 2007, 02:50:40 AM
Quote from: Imperator;56799
Tactical FTL jumps for the Raider, Raptor and Blackbird (if it's in there).

a must have:naughty:

i know that there have been discussions before so i'll just summ up and mix it with some other ideas!

how about creating a "FTL missile (torpedo)" (like UT Translocator), it only has one shot , after shot it moves straight at med speed, press sec-fire again and you'll FTL to its location and ammo regenerates! but it could be targeted and shot by the enemy! if you try to  ftl to a dead missile your "lost in space" aka dead!
so much for the theory, no idea if its doable in FS2

that would lead to a BR (bombing run) mode: every side tries to capture an ancient probe and return it to their mothership or try to capture a "bomb" and plant it on enemy mothership! (possible option: only hvy-raider and raptors can load it! raiders and vipers are  only escort/hunters. if ftl possible probecarrier can't ftl without loosing the probe/bomb) if the bomb-carrier is killed he'll drop its cargo on current location raptors/hv-raiders AI or player controlled!

or a possible CTF-classic mission: Adama vs Cain: a raptor tries to land on Peg/Gal to capture Chief and Helo/ Adama and Tigh and return them to Gal/Peg. Vipers try to shoot down enemy raptor and protect their own! raptor AI or player controlled! if a raptor gets shot down he drops its cargo at current location  where they can be picked up again (lol helo, tigh, chief and adama drifting in eva suits lol)
Loosing teams mothership blows up at the end :)

another one: capture the mother ship: land X# Raptors/hvy-raiders on enemy mothership and board it!

oh and cylon specials like convoy raids! cylon only game mode. erase an enemy convoy(with ai-viper escort, and continously civ-ships), every player starts in a raider, after X# kills his ship changes into the next better cylon ship (if it's possible in fs2 multi to fred in shipchange by score)  after a certain total bodycount the weakest ship explodes and can't respawn! and so on! it's kind of last man standing without shooting eachother!

convoy battles (fighters and civ ships only): the party that destroys enemy convoy wins, they also have to protect their own civ-ships

i'm no RPG fan ( i really hate RPG games!!!) but would it be possible to limit the available ships via fsnet stats? for example: Player A has 10000 points, B has 50000; A can only choose MK2 and Raider for missions, B can choose MK2,MK7,MK7E,Raider,.....,Reaper  
to be honest i only came up with this to make sure that there will be more victims available, rpg games allways attract  hardcore-grinders (and sometimes even girls :P) :lol:

oh, another one: capture the booze! rob a cylon brewery to "refuel" the fleet!
(you guys are really lucky that i never tried to FRED hehe)

oh and really important (even if its more a scp thing, you guys will have the largest FS2 comunity alive!) is there something going on to improve the FS2 multiplayer engine to optimize it? it still sucks to play an intercontinental game with a ping 200+, it's unplayable!!
Title: Fuel system
Post by: LindemHerz on February 12, 2007, 05:55:35 AM
Limited fuel and inflight refueling/rearming of Vipers and Raiders. Not something really limiting, in normal conditions having something like an hour/hour and a half of fuel at full throttle (with fuel consumption varying with throttle setting); but when maneouvering heavily you eat fuel a lot faster, going bingo in half an hour.

Of course, normal missions won't have a 30 minutes dogfight to death, but it could make for real interesting special situations, like being in a half hour all out furball to protect a Colonial One stranded with a faulty FTL - if anyone has played X-Wing Alliance, think about the mission where you had to protect two battlegroups that were to rendezvous with the main fleet in preparation of the assault on the Death Star II, that mission could easily last a half an hour coming and going between groups - in which you really had to plan ahead and using any break to run to the ressuply Raptor or make a combat landing to get more fuel and ammo.

Or an atmospheric mission where you had to make multiple visits to the Raptor to keep looking for certain missing pilot while dealing with adverse flight conditions - or where you couldn't, and you had 20 minutes to deal with the whole airwing of a colonized planet protecting fleeing ships before you had to get into orbit for recovery in the middle of a fight to the death between capital ships.

On the other hand, of course in reconnaissance straight burn and keep burning missions, people won't even realize there is such thing as fuel - just go ahead and run through it and your indicator won't even mark yellow when you land back at the Galactica.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: The Trivial Psychic on February 12, 2007, 07:38:10 AM
Been mentioned before; independent-seeking cluster missiles.  This would simulate the cluster missiles fired by the Cylon raiders during the mini-series.  FSO has 2 types of clustering missiles.  The first are swarming (or corkscrew, which can do this too) which all track the enemy selected.  The second is spawning weapons, such as the Piranha, which require a single missile fired, which breaks up and releases a number of smaller missiles, which target enemies independently of the player.  I'd like this independent targeting ability of spawned weapons, transferable to swarming weapons.  Each missile from the volley that is fired would target a different enemy, though one would track the enemy targeted by the player at the time of launch.  If the volley is 6 missiles, but there are only 4 enemies within range, 2 of the enemies would be targeted by 2 missiles.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Tikey on February 12, 2007, 07:51:15 AM
Cooperative missions.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 12, 2007, 08:21:42 AM
Good stuff so far. Some of it gives me ideas :yes:

@ Ender - The training mission in Exodus came just a little too late for us to use that style in the demo. It will be in the full game though.


@ bsilver2988 - Damage decals are on the way. We'll be getting them, pixel shaders and normal mapping in FS2_Open 3.7 with luck.


@ Imperator - Historical Battles - I have no intention of ignoring multi when it comes to these. The main issue is one of balancing them so that it's not Team 1 with one squadron of vipers against 4 Basestars. As long as we can make a fun mission out of an episode, it will appear in the game sooner or later. :)

Tactical jumping (and by that I assume you mean the ability for a raider to jump out and then reappear behind the enemy) doesn't appear in the show for either capships or fighters AFAIK. If Scar did it then maybe it would be in but until it's proved to me that it can be done, it's not worth the code changes to add it.


@ swiss gripen - SaR raptor missions - If we don't do it you can. I don't see anything in there that should tax a good FREDder. It might be cool to make this as a multiplayer TvT with both teams trying to recover pilots while the other side try to shoot them (or the stricken pilots) down. :D


@ saruman178 - Historical Campaign - Trust me it's not easy. The problem with a lot of episodes is that they look great on screen but they don't work as missions. Hand of God for instance is one that gave me many problems before we decided to make it a full release mission instead of demo.
 If you watch the episode there's not much to it. Launch from the Colonial Movers. Fly to the asteroid (no Cylon Raiders so no resistance). Skim across the asteroid surface. Everyone has seen the episode so they'll all be heading straight for the tunnel. Once they get in they fly straight through, pop out of the opening and fire for the first time in the mission. One hit kill and the mission is over. Looked great in the show but apart from avoiding the flak before starting the run where is the challenge? Sure you can have the player help deal with the Cylon Raiders that were fighting the rest of Galactica's Vipers but that's a bit anti-climactic after you've completed the main objective.

Hand of God will appear as a mission sooner or later. You can trust me on that but the issues involved in making it into a proper playable mission rather than just a recreation of the episode in the game engine whilst not stomping all over canon mean that very few of the Historical Battles are easy to make.


@ Herra Tohtori - Interesting ideas. Obviously the last two would have to be player selectable if they were too annoying for most players. Especially black and redouts as given how quickly Starbuck says the Viper can turn the player should spend most of the mission blacked out :)

@ Dodger - FTL Torpedo. FS2 already has subspace missiles. These might be adaptable for the game. The main issue is whether they are in keeping with the show canon. I tend to feel that they aren't. We haven't seen either side use anything like that.

CTF missions. Doable.

Capture the Basestar. Doable

Convoy Escort Multiplayer. Doable

Cylon Raiding with upgrading ships - Would require code changes. Bear in mind I've already made experiments with similar ideas in FS2 though and this is something I'd like to see the FS2_Open engine able to handle.
 Not certain about not having the lowest kill count ship unable to respawn though. Sounds pretty boring for that player.

Fighter selection based on kills - Not certain I like the idea. Maybe in certain missions it might be fun for a veterans only game (Or reversed for a newbies only game) but I'm not going to make that the standard.

Improvements to ping etc are very high on the list of things to improve. :)


@ LindemHerz - Limited Fuel. I tend to agree that it would suck to have that in every mission but it would be fun to have a mission were you're returning from a patrol and you have to worry about running out. This would require code changes to implement but it's quite a nice changes so there is a good chance of this one appearing.

Resupply Raptors and missions based on them would almost certainly be a part of the change. The game already has code for support ships. We'd need to fix this so that there was an option to prevent ammo being reloaded and subsystems repaired and instead have the fuel topped up. The idea has been brought up several times before but it wasn't the right time to get it implemented. But it's not the wrong time now and this is actually something I can hand over to a coder right now if someone is willing to implement it as they can work on FS2 data in order to get it working.

@ TP Independent Clusters and Swarms. Sounds good to me. Seems like something we could add to Backslashes multitargeting system. Have you brought this up with him?

@ Tikey - FS2 already supports 8 player Coop. We have missions that use it. The standard singleplayer missions do not lend themselves to easy conversion to Coop however. That doesn't mean we can't write some great new coop missions though.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Pc32435 on February 12, 2007, 09:45:30 AM
ohh that flak looks impressive :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Squirrel on February 12, 2007, 09:49:54 AM
Hmmm..it's not really a feature, it's more an improvement request. I don't like the way the fighters react in FS2. Although you can adjust the deadzone and the sensity, it feels just not right. If you ever played Falcon 4.0 you know what I mean. I know, it's not supposed to be a simulation, but a bit more in this way would improve certainly the feeling of the game...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: TheFili on February 12, 2007, 10:03:48 AM
How is the main menu going to look? A normal, average game menu or more like FS2's and X-Wing Alliance's?
I think it would be quite awesome to have the hangar we all know as your menu - some Viper's standing around, welding sparks, maybe some people pushing ammo carts...
Or maybe, if advances in rank are planned, some missions where you have the CIC as menu, so you know the next mission is going to be serious and hard as hell ;)

Another thing: does anyone remember the first X-Wing game, where you got a dress uniform based on the missions you completed? Would FS2 allow that?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: saruman178 on February 12, 2007, 01:11:21 PM
Quote
Everyone has seen the episode so they'll all be heading straight for the tunnel. Once they get in they fly straight through, pop out of the opening and fire for the first time in the mission. One hit kill and the mission is over.

So there's no way to make multiple tunnels in there, and have the enemy spawn somewhere else everytime??
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 12, 2007, 04:08:19 PM
The tunnels are tight enough that we can't have enemy ships in there (no room to manoeuvre). We can have more than one tunnel but what would that achieve? A 50:50 chance of changing the most boring mission ever into the second most boring? :D

I have ideas for how to make HoG work and actually be a good, entertaining mission so don't worry specifically about that. I brought it up because I wanted to show that making the scenes in the show into great playable missions is a lot harder than it seems.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Phantel on February 12, 2007, 10:09:52 PM
I'd like to see revised the (IMHO) ridiculous collision damage taken on FS2, colliding with capships and receiving only 1% hull damage always has made me mad :squeeze:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 12, 2007, 11:03:27 PM
No shields in BtRL. Collisions hurt a lot more.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Japhobia on February 12, 2007, 11:04:03 PM
I agree with Phantel it should be auto death learn to fly folks. It'll make dogfights so much more fun watching raiders rap around each other and die lol. In all seriousness it could lead to some very interesting tactics like chasing into a tight space then suddenly you realize u've been screwed over and can't get out.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: M-562 on February 13, 2007, 12:16:09 PM
Uhmm I seem to remember that the BSG series really showed the thrusters as they fired, I wonder if its possible to show them when you try to turn the viper. (I KNOW its hard but its only a suggestion and please dont get angry with me, respenus has done that enough already :D)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Roy Fokker on February 13, 2007, 12:33:02 PM
Quote from: M-562;56979
Uhmm I seem to remember that the BSG series really showed the thrusters as they fired, I wonder if its possible to show them when you try to turn the viper. (I KNOW its hard but its only a suggestion and please dont get angry with me, respenus has done that enough already :D)


That has already been implemented for some time.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Imperator on February 13, 2007, 01:33:01 PM
Quote from: M-562;56979
Uhmm I seem to remember that the BSG series really showed the thrusters as they fired, I wonder if its possible to show them when you try to turn the viper. (I KNOW its hard but its only a suggestion and please dont get angry with me, respenus has done that enough already :D)

He's got good reason to be angry, the guy waited for 2 months and he got a lousy Lieutenant SG, where as some n00bs just waltzed in and swept up Captain!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: M-562 on February 13, 2007, 03:41:02 PM
Quote from: Imperator;56982
He's got good reason to be angry, the guy waited for 2 months and he got a lousy Lieutenant SG, where as some n00bs just waltzed in and swept up Captain!


ey I waited for 2 moths as well and I GOT ENSIGN, THATS EVEN LOWER.
also chief said the ranks werent necasserily the actual ones.

Quote
That has already been implemented for some time.


oh sorry I didint know that
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Imperator on February 13, 2007, 04:29:43 PM
Ensign after 2 months.....oo arr.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: M-562 on February 13, 2007, 04:36:44 PM
I feel kinda crappy but anyways im a sarge in ~S9~ (not a BTRL clan)
and I only got 1 guys to command yippeeeh ! :( but who cares. If I get to be the Hero lol :naughty: nah just give me an assignment and i'll do my best to carry out.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Carrie on February 13, 2007, 05:37:22 PM
Hmm... Is this a good sign, seeing a thread like this being posted? :)

I wouldn't expect a thread like this unless a lot of the 'base' coding was complete, and it was just down to adding the kind of fluff the people are wanting...

But then, maybe I'm just indulging in wishful thinking. :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Imperator on February 13, 2007, 05:53:43 PM
They're down to voice acting and some bug fixing if I'm not mistaken.

http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/CHriSMesS/?action=view¤t=hvr_welcome.flv?t=1170015034

(http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/4020/welcomesalvo5pe.gif)

EDIT: Woops, looked at the post count and not the join date, my bad! :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Carrie on February 13, 2007, 06:03:15 PM
Quote from: Imperator;57005
They're down to voice acting and some bug fixing if I'm not mistaken.


Woo! :) :) :) I'm looking very much forward to playing it :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 13, 2007, 06:18:08 PM
We're asking about stuff for the full campaign since we'll have time to implement it before that is released.

The demo on the other hand is in a much better state.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Snagger on February 13, 2007, 07:29:50 PM
No new suggestions, just reiteration of a few good ones:

Fuel - I really like the idea of limited fuel - it means you can't afford slashing attacks and have to stay in the main fight.  It also means you have to be careful about your maneouvering and know when to disengage and run for home.  Perhaps disabling the fuel feature on the demo as there are no cap ships to refuel from would work, but other missions should be realistic.  1.5 hours' worth of fuel at full power is hopelessly over optimistic - modern fast jet aeroplanes deplete their entire fuel load after 10-15 minutes with afterburner engaged!

Views - I like the spring centred wide angle view that reacts to inertia.  I'd also like to remind the team of someone's previous thread about supporting VR goggles or systems like the Track IR.

Hand of God - its critical to include this mission for the historical campaign.  I understand your concerns about the tunnel being an insufficient challenge, but it was very confined, there were a lot of obstacles in there, some of which were moving, and Lee had to fly it very fast (for the game, you could reasonably place Centurions in the tunnel who shoot at you - smaller weapons, but you'd have to fly fast to avoid multiple hits and this increases the challenge).  Furthermore, to make the tunnel harder, its path could be randomly created by the computer to simulate the lack of intel and planning on Lee's flight.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on February 13, 2007, 07:43:08 PM
Snagger:

First idea: Possible, but only with afterburners at the moment. Fuel for normal throttle will require code changes (probably relatively minor).

Second idea: Very possible, somewhat likely to at least have a cockpit view and maybe something else ;)

HoG: The tunnel would take some doing. But the randomly generated bit is pretty much impossible.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Carrie on February 13, 2007, 10:04:49 PM
Quote from: karajorma;57008
We're asking about stuff for the full campaign since we'll have time to implement it before that is released.

The demo on the other hand is in a much better state.


Good. I hope to see it, and play it, soon then. ;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Roy Fokker on February 13, 2007, 10:13:47 PM
As for Hand of God, isn't it possible to force the player to take a particular route  over the asteroid's surface, as in, perhaps, putting missile batteries at the edges that shoot you down as soon as you try for a shortcut? It could be a rift that is unguarded by missiles, but loaded with turrets, kinda like the Base Star run in SW. You could make it so the point of the mission is not to find the way to destroy the refinery, because we already know how, but to get there in one piece by avoiding turret and Centurion fire during the asteroid and tunnel run, and also collisions. Meaning - it would require great skill just to get to the end of the tunnel to drop the bombs, which is cool by me.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: saruman178 on February 14, 2007, 12:31:42 AM
Missile Batteries Would kind of ruin the feel of the mission. Making Scar impossible to detect would really make things interesting. But one would have to make the Map Small or make it so the enemy can't leave a certain area. Or better yet after leaving the vicinity of the asteroid become able to detect again.

The only way to make this works is to make a lot of obstacle inside the asteroid.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KypFisto on February 14, 2007, 01:20:46 AM
My only request would be for a non-necessary feature. In X-Wing Alliance I recall you could use the mouse to look around the cockpit. I don't expect such a thing to be possible on an entirely different engine, but if you guys don't mind looking into it I'd be happy enough.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Roy Fokker on February 14, 2007, 01:29:55 AM
Quote from: saruman178;57036
Missile Batteries Would kind of ruin the feel of the mission. Making Scar impossible to detect would really make things interesting. But one would have to make the Map Small or make it so the enemy can't leave a certain area. Or better yet after leaving the vicinity of the asteroid become able to detect again.

The only way to make this works is to make a lot of obstacle inside the asteroid.


What are we talking about here?

IIRC, in Hand of God, several Vipers are shot down by missiles.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Dukeman42 on February 14, 2007, 04:44:16 AM
Quote from: KypFisto;57038
My only request would be for a non-necessary feature. In X-Wing Alliance I recall you could use the mouse to look around the cockpit. I don't expect such a thing to be possible on an entirely different engine, but if you guys don't mind looking into it I'd be happy enough.



We're working on that, and then some...if things go the right way, enthusiast simmers will be especially pleased!;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: The Trivial Psychic on February 14, 2007, 06:25:45 AM
Quote from: karajorma;56869
Good stuff so far. Some of it gives me ideas :yes:

@ LindemHerz - Resupply Raptors and missions based on them would almost certainly be a part of the change. The game already has code for support ships. We'd need to fix this so that there was an option to prevent ammo being reloaded and subsystems repaired and instead have the fuel topped up. The idea has been brought up several times before but it wasn't the right time to get it implemented. But it's not the wrong time now and this is actually something I can hand over to a coder right now if someone is willing to implement it as they can work on FS2 data in order to get it working.


On the subject of support ships, I feel it is also necessary to once again bring up the idea of passive rearming.  This means that, a ship with a passive rearm flag, would need one or more dockpoints with "rearm" in their titles, and would be placed (say, if this is Galactica we're talking about) inside the flight pods.  Then, the code would be configured that if the player is within a certain radius of the dockpoint and a rearm is called, it automatically forces the AI to take control and dock the fighter to the dockpoint, followed by rearming, repairing, and refueling.  When its complete, the fighter is released from the dockpoint (more like jettisoned though) and ship control is returned to the player, who can now return to the fight.  As for the the AI using the passive docking, it would require approach paths that start outside the ship and guide the fighter to the dockpoint, much like bay paths.  There would also need to be code which handles for the AI, whether it choses to go with support ship rearm or base ship rearm, as well as code to handle the ambiguity that would occur if the player is within the critical radius, but a support ship is also close.  Needs to be able to tell the support ship to ignore the request if a cap-ship is within range.
Quote from: karajorma;56869

@ TP Independent Clusters and Swarms. Sounds good to me. Seems like something we could add to Backslashes multitargeting system. Have you brought this up with him?

I've only ever brought this up here..., so no, I haven't discussed with Backslash.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 14, 2007, 11:06:56 AM
Bring it up with him. He might be interested. :)

Quote from: saruman178;57036
Missile Batteries Would kind of ruin the feel of the mission. Making Scar impossible to detect would really make things interesting. But one would have to make the Map Small or make it so the enemy can't leave a certain area. Or better yet after leaving the vicinity of the asteroid become able to detect again.

The only way to make this works is to make a lot of obstacle inside the asteroid.


I toyed with making Scar invisible in the Historical Campaign but in the end I discarded the idea. Not for game related reasons either. It was definitely doable and could even be a lot of fun.

I decided against it for a different reason. It would make Scar special. And Scar isn't. That's the whole point of him. He's just a normal Raider who is very good. If I gave Scar stealth abilities he loses that and just becomes a super-ship.

If I gave Scar the ability to stealth I'd have to give it to everything and that would ruin the game. On the other hand I have got ideas on how to improve the stealth code so that we can have limited detection for everyone in certain missions. :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Komrade on February 14, 2007, 04:22:41 PM
Quote from: Dukeman42;57058
We're working on that, and then some...if things go the right way, enthusiast simmers will be especially pleased!;)


Cockpit viewing would kick some serious behind.
If not the abillity to change where the pilots POV using the mouse (which unless it springs back automatically could be a bit of a pain I'm imagining), at least the "hat" function to change the view that FS2 already supports.
Would truly love to see that.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 14, 2007, 05:22:28 PM
Yeah, with 8-view hatswitch support for main release.

I suppose including that into the FSOpen engine before demo release would be hoping too much...:naughty:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: starbuckatemylunch on February 14, 2007, 07:25:08 PM
What feature I would like to see is a........release that I can download and play.

O.K., I know, I know, I'll go back to lurking and shut up now.

:naughty:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 14, 2007, 07:51:53 PM
We're working on that feature already! It will be implemented soon. :p
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: StarSlayer on February 14, 2007, 08:19:42 PM
Quote from: karajorma;57092
We're working on that feature already! It will be implemented soon. :p


kara be careful you don't fall victim to feature creep! clients always like to slide in some "enhancements" into the bug testing. :drevil:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Rezzy on February 15, 2007, 01:13:27 AM
Haven't found time to post this till now so here goes;

Quote
Independent-seeking cluster missiles. This would simulate the cluster missiles fired by the Cylon raiders during the mini-series.

Where are these cluster missles? When I read this post I went and dug out my Mini Series DvD and watched it all the way through, if you mean when the cylons use electronic warfare on the MkVII's then launch missles at them, thoose are swarm not cluster because it's not a single missle which breaks off into multiple independant missles, it's multiple missles being fired in rapid succession.

Notice the 2 racks of 4 missles each on their wings:

(http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/3019/pdvd004xz5.th.jpg) (http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pdvd004xz5.jpg)

Now look at their fire pattern:

(http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/7948/pdvd011gk1.th.jpg) (http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pdvd011gk1.jpg)

This isn't a cluster missle, it fits more into the swarm variety of missles, as proof:

(http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/1455/PDVD_012.th.jpg) (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=PDVD_012.jpg)
(http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/2747/PDVD_133.th.jpg) (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=PDVD_133.jpg)
(http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/3997/PDVD_146.th.jpg) (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=PDVD_146.jpg)

Notice how every missles never breaks up into smaller missles?  That's because it's not cluster, it's an easy mistake because most people assume lots of missles equals cluster missles, it can also mean swarm missles, as shown in this case.

So, the feature I would like to see implemented would be swarm missles for cylon raiders.  Maybe have them on FoF or have each missle target a different locked target if multiple locks is possible.

Cheers,

Rezzy

-edit-

Thought I'd add that a cluster missle would be exactly like a cluster bomb, but instead of breaking into bomblets it would break into missles.  Just incase people get confused.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on February 15, 2007, 01:44:17 AM
Quote from: Carrie;57004
Hmm... Is this a good sign, seeing a thread like this being posted? :)

I wouldn't expect a thread like this unless a lot of the 'base' coding was complete, and it was just down to adding the kind of fluff the people are wanting...

But then, maybe I'm just indulging in wishful thinking. :D

I know this is late, but I'd like to clarify this again; BTRL does almost no coding by itself. We're based off of the Freespace Open engine - so all of our coding is done by them, not us :) The most we do is change little things (you'll have to ask Kara for further clarification on the specifics, he's a coder, I'm not :) ).

As for the independent seeking missiles - not sure if it can be done with individual missiles. I'd have to see if some tabling can do it, but AFAIK the only "standard" way of doing a bunch of missiles seeking targets other than the one you have locked is with a cluster missile.

And do I really need to post the cockpit model shot again? :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Sparky on February 15, 2007, 07:16:16 AM
Some questions, my appologies if they have been asked elsewhere;

1. Will the Blackbird be in the full game?  What about Heavy Raiders?  Pegasus(dare I ask)? I ask only because I have yet to see any sign of them in any of the screen shots and/or vids. :nervous:

2. Will there be the option of picking FTL jump coordinates if you're flying a Raider/Raptor, or will it be more along the lines of, "We're putting you here, now finish the mission."?

3. Who are the Final Five?:lol:

4. I don't know if FS2 would support this,(i'm not much of a gamer, hence I wouldn't know)  but is there any way to command a fight from Galactica? i.e.: Command gun and missile batteries to target specific areas, choosing to order Vipers to break off attack, sending in reinforcements, ordering a jump be made... etc.  Basicaly, playing Adama.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on February 15, 2007, 11:03:35 AM
Quote from: Sparky;57124
Some questions, my appologies if they have been asked elsewhere;

1. Will the Blackbird be in the full game?  What about Heavy Raiders?  Pegasus(dare I ask)? I ask only because I have yet to see any sign of them in any of the screen shots and/or vids. :nervous:


Yes, Yes, an Yes. Check the WIP threads for model shots :)

Quote
2. Will there be the option of picking FTL jump coordinates if you're flying a Raider/Raptor, or will it be more along the lines of, "We're putting you here, now finish the mission."?


Doubtful that you will be able to pick the coordinates, since FS2 supports nothing like that.

Quote
3. Who are the Final Five?:lol:


Larry, Moe, Curly, Shemp, and Baltar :p

Quote
4. I don't know if FS2 would support this,(i'm not much of a gamer, hence I wouldn't know)  but is there any way to command a fight from Galactica? i.e.: Command gun and missile batteries to target specific areas, choosing to order Vipers to break off attack, sending in reinforcements, ordering a jump be made... etc.  Basicaly, playing Adama.


Technically it's possible, but nowhere near that detailed without major code changes. Besides, this is a space combat simulator - if you want to command a capital ship, why not just play Bridge Commander? They have a BSG mod for that too :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 15, 2007, 11:09:36 AM
Quote from: Unknown Target;57114
I know this is late, but I'd like to clarify this again; BTRL does almost no coding by itself. We're based off of the Freespace Open engine - so all of our coding is done by them, not us :) The most we do is change little things (you'll have to ask Kara for further clarification on the specifics, he's a coder, I'm not :) ).


All coding is done by the SCP. I just happen to be a member of both teams. :D

 All of our coders have to be members of the SCP but the SCP is a pretty informal team so there's no reason a coder can't join and only work on BtRL requests. It's not like they'll be put to work adding FS2 features they don't care about.

That said they might be asked to widen the scope of any feature so that other mods and TCs can use it.

Quote from: Sparky;57124
Some questions, my appologies if they have been asked elsewhere;

1. Will the Blackbird be in the full game?  What about Heavy Raiders?  Pegasus(dare I ask)? I ask only because I have yet to see any sign of them in any of the screen shots and/or vids. :nervous:


That's mainly cause none of them are finished yet rather than cause we don't want them. :)

Quote
2. Will there be the option of picking FTL jump coordinates if you're flying a Raider/Raptor, or will it be more along the lines of, "We're putting you here, now finish the mission."?


The latter is the way things are at the moment. The Wing Commander Saga boys have been bugging the SCP for a nav screen for a while though so that isn't necessarily the way it will always be.

Quote
4. I don't know if FS2 would support this,(i'm not much of a gamer, hence I wouldn't know)  but is there any way to command a fight from Galactica? i.e.: Command gun and missile batteries to target specific areas, choosing to order Vipers to break off attack, sending in reinforcements, ordering a jump be made... etc.  Basicaly, playing Adama.


You're probably better off with a RTS mod for that sort of things. FS2 excels at fighter combat
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Hedgepig on February 16, 2007, 07:05:34 AM
Just a thought about the swarm/cluster missiles.
I think it would be unlikely that Cylons would fire weapons that randomly target nearby ships. They're far more likely to calculate 'I'll fire 2 at target 1, 2 at target 2, 1 at target 3' etc. So wouldn't it be better (and probably easier, from a coding standpoint) to just have the ability to fire single missles very rapidly and maybe some way to quickly switch between 3 or 4 nearby priority targets? (Like a 'cycle between targets near the reticle' button.)
When I'm flying a raider, I'd much rather have that ability than my missile randomly going to ships I don't want to attack (because they're nearly dead or already have 6 missiles flying at them).

Other than that, I'd like to see the ability to toggle the HUD on or off, in which case a mouse-look for looking around the cockpit, spotting enemies, would be essential (but it sounds like you're way ahead of me on that one).

How will landing Vipers on Galactica work? Will you just fly into the hanger and auto land, or are you going to have realistic landings? (Where it's all manual and you need to go the correct speed or you'll have to wave off and try again.)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Imperator on February 16, 2007, 03:50:13 PM
You can already turn the HUD on or off, just switch everything off in the options.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on February 16, 2007, 03:56:15 PM
Shift-O will also turn it off IIRC.
There won't be rapid-firing missile swarms for the demo (there's only one type of missile per side), but I'll take it into consideration for the full release :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Shade on February 16, 2007, 06:54:07 PM
Quote
2. Will there be the option of picking FTL jump coordinates if you're flying a Raider/Raptor, or will it be more along the lines of, "We're putting you here, now finish the mission."?
Just had a crazy idea. I think this can actually be FREDed as it stands.

You'd "simply" need to use key-pressed first trigger the coordinate feed and then to capture the coordinates as they're punched in, store them in variables as they come, do a little bit of math to string the individual ciphers properly together into the actual coordinates, and finally feed them into a set-ship-position SEXP coupled with a nice warp-effect at the points of origin and arrival.

Easy. Well, not. But looks doable given enough effort.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on February 16, 2007, 07:16:00 PM
What did you just say? :p
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 16, 2007, 07:16:07 PM
Now that's an interesting idea :)

Only problem is that only the 1-4 keys work with Key-pressed AFAIK :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Shade on February 16, 2007, 07:47:50 PM
Just checked that, and you're right. Only 1 through 4 will work. None of the number keys are tied to any functions besides messaging by default though (just checked that too), so it might be worth looking into if people would actually find this useful.

Everything after that is just simple math, really, nothing that can't be done with the existing arithmatic SEXPs. Biggest problem would actually be to make the ingame coordinate system somehow comprehensible to the player, as there's currently no indication of where you are in relation to it - It's all well and good to be able to jump to +1000, -200, -1700 at the press of a few keys, but it's no good if you have no clue where that actually is.

Of course, one could simply make the jump coordinates be considered relative to the player's current position, but if you'd also want it to be relative to their facing it would start to get rather complicated rather fast. Even that would still be doable I *think*, with some approximation, but not something I'll bore this thread with :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 16, 2007, 08:19:14 PM
Quote from: Shade.;57198
It's all well and good to be able to jump to +1000, -200, -1700 at the press of a few keys, but it's no good if you have no clue where that actually is.
:)



Create and target a nav buoy at the target location before hitting "commit jump" button, similar to what was used in Wing Commander Saga?

That would show both direction of the jump and the distance to it. Obviously there could be a system that feeds in jump co-ordinates directly to FTL drive. But perhaps in some mission they would have to use wireless to transfer jump co-ordinates "safer" so that they know that Cylons are not sending them to who knows where.


Pre-assigned jump co-ordinates are also a possibility, like in X-Wing Alliance.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: kcdzim on February 16, 2007, 08:41:49 PM
Quote from: Herra Tohtori;57202
Create and target a nav buoy at the target location before hitting "commit jump" button, similar to what was used in Wing Commander Saga?

That would show both direction of the jump and the distance to it. Obviously there could be a system that feeds in jump co-ordinates directly to FTL drive. But perhaps in some mission they would have to use wireless to transfer jump co-ordinates "safer" so that they know that Cylons are not sending them to who knows where.


Pre-assigned jump co-ordinates are also a possibility, like in X-Wing Alliance.


Been lurking a while, after I found out about the mod a couple months ago...

Seems to me that if there were jump capabilities and coordinates, there should be a randomizing element  on the raptors of at least 1/2 being slightly off target (1 km), 1/5 being off by a moderate amount (a dozen km or so), and 1/10 being catostrophically off (death by planet, star or even by a capital ship).   If a campaign mission uses it then don't implement the random effects (they had time to double check the numbers), but if it's a spontaneous jump then you run the risk of your Electronics Officer making a rounding error so that it wasn't actually abused in battle.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: The Trivial Psychic on February 16, 2007, 09:16:36 PM
Quote from: Hedgepig;57175
Just a thought about the swarm/cluster missiles.
I think it would be unlikely that Cylons would fire weapons that randomly target nearby ships. They're far more likely to calculate 'I'll fire 2 at target 1, 2 at target 2, 1 at target 3' etc. So wouldn't it be better (and probably easier, from a coding standpoint) to just have the ability to fire single missles very rapidly and maybe some way to quickly switch between 3 or 4 nearby priority targets? (Like a 'cycle between targets near the reticle' button.)
When I'm flying a raider, I'd much rather have that ability than my missile randomly going to ships I don't want to attack (because they're nearly dead or already have 6 missiles flying at them).


While the Cylons may be able to target specific ships prior to launching the volley seen in the mini-series, the problem lies that if you simply make them all single-launch missiles with a high rate of fire, the AI will just spam you to death with a whole tonne of them, so its not practical to do it that way.  That said, we also saw instances of raiders launching individual missiles in the mini-series, so I think that it would be best for them to have both a single shot missile as well as a swarming type, with independent targeting.  Trust me, adding independent targeting to swarming missiles is the only way to simulate the effect and still keep things balanced.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 16, 2007, 09:44:46 PM
Quote from: kcdzim;57203
Seems to me that if there were jump capabilities and coordinates, there should be a randomizing element  on the raptors of at least 1/2 being slightly off target (1 km), 1/5 being off by a moderate amount (a dozen km or so), and 1/10 being catostrophically off (death by planet, star or even by a capital ship).   If a campaign mission uses it then don't implement the random effects (they had time to double check the numbers), but if it's a spontaneous jump then you run the risk of your Electronics Officer making a rounding error so that it wasn't actually abused in battle.


Adding a randomizing factor would not be hard if you can get the rest to work. Hell if I was feeling really cocky I'd make the size of the factor dependant on if the jump was being made under stress or not :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Fergus on February 17, 2007, 12:59:08 AM
Quote from: kcdzim;57203
and 1/10 being catostrophically off (death by planet, star or even by a capital ship).  


Just a thought, but I don't believe that randomizing the chances of a players death is a good idea.  It's just frustrating dying because of an event entirely out of your own control.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: kcdzim on February 17, 2007, 01:08:05 AM
Quote from: Fergus;57216
Just a thought, but I don't believe that randomizing the chances of a players death is a good idea.  It's just frustrating dying because of an event entirely out of your own control.



True, but if you're in a fire fight and want to jump away and reload/repair, there should be a chance penalty.  Or, if you want to set up an ambush or tactical advantage using multiple raptors/raiders jumping to the same point (a spawn point for example) I think there should be a counter.  Vipers won't have this ability, but we have seen raiders jump around (that ep where it was "damaged"), and basically everytime we've ever seen raptors jump, generally something went wrong or at the least, not quite right.

IMO I'd rather have NO FTL tactical jumps in mission than have them be freebies with no risks, because I see it as something easy to exploit or incredibly irritating to fight against.  There should be a check to it, and I think that check is the risk of it going wrong slightly or going wrong entirely.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: saruman178 on February 17, 2007, 01:12:56 AM
Quote from: Fergus;57216
Just a thought, but I don't believe that randomizing the chances of a players death is a good idea.  It's just frustrating dying because of an event entirely out of your own control.



True but if theres no chance of the penalty then all missions suddenly become very easy.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Shade on February 17, 2007, 01:47:17 PM
Not if the mission design takes it into account. Any poorly designed mission, jumps or no jumps, can be easy and boring. A well designed mission, jumps or no jumps, won't be either. The options available to a mission designer using the FSOpen engine are very many indeed, and something like this would be quite trivial to balance for :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: kilo_foxtrot on February 17, 2007, 06:08:08 PM
I admittedly have no FS2 playing experience, and I can't recall if this was mentioned in a long-archived thread... but what about being able to shoot down missiles? That's played a significant role in at least a few episodes; I just don't know enough about the FS2 engine to know if it is supportable (or already supported).
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: lightswitchenator on February 17, 2007, 06:33:34 PM
being able to jump from viper to viper would be fun.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Shade on February 17, 2007, 06:51:14 PM
FS2 has two types of warheads - Bombs and missiles. Anything designated as a bomb can be targeted and shot down, whereas missiles cannot. Indeed, being able to quickly target and accurately intercept warheads despite being rocked hardcore by the shockwave from the first one you shot down is a pivotal skill for success in escort missions. So both options are available at the discretion of the BSG team :)

Also available are dumbfire missiles and both heat and aspect seeking modes, not to mention countermeasures which can have variable effects versus the different tracking modes - Though I don't recall seeing any form of countermeasures used in BSG yet... as long as you don't count those magnetic pulse generators in the miniseries at least :p (On that note, EMP effects are also supported by the engine)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 17, 2007, 07:09:07 PM
Hmmmm. I've been thinking for a while about splitting the bomb flag into two separate flags (Targettable and shootable) and simply having the game parse any calls to "bomb" as meaning it should set them both.

I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to split them up either. The only problem would be to check what WMC did with the targetable as bomb flag when he added that as it could very easily be true that much of the work is done already.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Dukeman42 on February 17, 2007, 07:35:04 PM
Quote from: Shade.;57255
Though I don't recall seeing any form of countermeasures used in BSG yet... as long as you don't count those magnetic pulse generators in the miniseries at least :p (On that note, EMP effects are also supported by the engine)


Actually, in the mini Boomer and Helo launched countermeasures when two raiders launched missiles at their Raptor (I think they were called sparrows?  can't recall).

And in Hand of God (Season One), the Vipers appeared to have chaff dispensers, if I recall correctly.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Shade on February 17, 2007, 07:37:52 PM
One way might be to add support for an 'invulnerable' flag to bombs. That would achieve the same effect, and I *think* all you'd have to do is to add a check for the flag in the collide_weapon_weapon function in collideweaponweapon.cpp, plus support parsing of it in missionparse.cpp.

[Edit] You're right, those were definitely countermeasures. Excellent :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on February 17, 2007, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: lightswitchenator;57254
being able to jump from viper to viper would be fun.


Why?

But the shoot-down-able missiles is something that we've looked into before for the demo (decided not to do), but I will definitely look into it much more seriously for the full release :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Tikey on February 17, 2007, 10:11:12 PM
I want to be able to open the cockpit, jump into space, grab a raider and mount it while weaving a cowboy hat.

Just kidding

Will it be possible to shoot asteroids (with missiles or bullets) and break them to cause havok a confussion al around while people and cylons die? :mad2:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on February 17, 2007, 10:38:54 PM
Yes, that's been possible since Freespace 2.
(The second, not the first :p)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Imperator on February 17, 2007, 11:03:32 PM
Without the explosion vaporising effects?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Water Viper on February 18, 2007, 09:13:26 AM
Do we have an eject button?Maybe a good scenario for Raptor pilots having to go out and rescue pilots during fire fights.
In regard to targetable missiles.Have bombs as Nukes and missiles as the smaller size munitions like dumbfires.Maybe just a thought....
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Admiral Ace on February 18, 2007, 11:57:14 AM
The Eject button ? I like this one. It seems unavoidable. But what about the effect ?

Anyway, I think I've some additional ideas (or requests if you want ^^) :
1) Creating complete new personae (with the audio sentences and so on) has always been a chore with FS2, and I must admit that I've ever had difficulties regarding the FRED's designation of a new persona. What about making that task easier in BtRL ? It could be helpful for squadron leaders.

2) You've been talking about tricks to make FTL jumps, but I sincerely hope you'll let the players use time increase or decrease function, for multiple purposes :) And maybe you should make sure that it works in multi, assuming that only the hoster can handle time compression.

3) I really think that redouts and blackouts should be implemented, but instead of making the player tick off the option or not before the battle, why not adding the possibility to modify it ingame, by using a button that would be told to increase or decrease the pressurization inside the cockpit and then have an effect on the gravity field intensity (the Gs) - so actually the pilot would be able to change the intensity of each "'out" ingame, with the fact that lowering the Gs may have on the pilot's concentration and strength (joystick sensibility ? Game speed ?) ? There would be a balance to find, and each pilot would have its own.

4) As it is for squadron gestion, would it be somehow possible that the ranks can also be modified for a pilot by his leader, so that it corresponds to the one of his squad ?

That's all I have for the moment ^^
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 18, 2007, 12:11:36 PM
Quote from: Shade.;57262
One way might be to add support for an 'invulnerable' flag to bombs. That would achieve the same effect, and I *think* all you'd have to do is to add a check for the flag in the collide_weapon_weapon function in collideweaponweapon.cpp, plus support parsing of it in missionparse.cpp.

Invulnerable flag? :wtf: I don't see how that would help. Missiles are already invulnerable and bombs aren't. The issue is not with making invulnerable bombs but with making vulnerable missiles.

It's not as simple as just making shootable missiles. You have to make the AI chase them too. And that's the big problem. Because shootable missiles shouldn't have the same priority as shootable bombs or it would completely screw up the AI (Not to mention that if you forgot to set turret priority you'd get capship weapons firing at them!)

The more I think about it the more I realise why this isn't quite as simple as it seemed at first glance. Yes you can split the WIF_BOMB flag into two seperate flags but you've then got to make sure that the AI deals with shootable missiles differently from shootable bombs.

Quote from: Water Viper;57308
Do we have an eject button? Maybe a good scenario for Raptor pilots having to go out and rescue pilots during fire fights.

Not yet. SaR missions have already been mentioned earlier in the thread. I tend to think they'd be rather boring in singleplayer but could make excellent TvT missions (where they'd basically be similar to Capture the Flag except that only one ship could capture and everyone else on the team would have to protect them).

Quote from: Imperator;57271
Without the explosion vaporising effects?

Unlike FS2 our asteroids are not made of napalm. :lol:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Dodger on February 18, 2007, 12:22:02 PM
here's one of my fun ideas: how about a "totally drunk" viper mission? with randomized camera movement?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 18, 2007, 12:33:07 PM
Quote from: Admiral Ace;57320
The Eject button ? I like this one. It seems unavoidable. But what about the effect ?


It's going to have to be insti-death in most cases. The problem with eject is that people can use it as a way to avoid annoying missions. It's also an absolute pain in the arse for the mission designer as the player can eject at any time and that means that the mission needs to account for that the whole time.

Blue 1 - Take out the cyclon nukes before they hit the Galactica
I've just ejected!

Blue 1 - The Galactica is taking serious hits. Work hard to protect it
I've just ejected!

Blue 1 - Athena says she's dumping Helo wants to meet you on the launch tubes for some hot cylon loving. Land immediately.
I've just ejected!!!!


Basically the FREDder now has to check if the player has ejected before any of those messages and branch the mission off so as to not send them. If you look at the games which did have ejection systems you soon see why FS2 doesn't have them. Wing Commander instantly went to mission end if you ejected. Starlance killed you. Basically you go to mission end as fast as possible so as to not screw up the rest of the mission.

That doesn't mean that missions involving ejection are out. It does mean that you're likely to be expected to come back with your shield or on it in most cases though.

Quote
1) Creating complete new personae (with the audio sentences and so on) has always been a chore with FS2, and I must admit that I've ever had difficulties regarding the FRED's designation of a new persona. What about making that task easier in BtRL ? It could be helpful for squadron leaders.


Not really much we can do about that. Player ships don't send persona messages anyway so you'd only need them for AI ships in your wing. What problems have you had with them in FRED?

Quote
2) You've been talking about tricks to make FTL jumps, but I sincerely hope you'll let the players use time increase or decrease function, for multiple purposes :) And maybe you should make sure that it works in multi, assuming that only the hoster can handle time compression.


Time compression is currently acting very strangely in BtRL (and probably in FS2 as well). I'd advise not using it for the time being. I'm certainly not going to allow it in validated multi missions as I can only imagine the kind of abuse that it could be used for there.

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3) I really think that redouts and blackouts should be implemented, but instead of making the player tick off the option or not before the battle, why not adding the possibility to modify it ingame, by using a button that would be told to increase or decrease the pressurization inside the cockpit and then have an effect on the gravity field intensity (the Gs) - so actually the pilot would be able to change the intensity of each "'out" ingame, with the fact that lowering the Gs may have on the pilot's concentration and strength (joystick sensibility ? Game speed ?) ? There would be a balance to find, and each pilot would have its own.


Firstly G-forces are a function of inertia not gravity so lets just get that out of the way before anyone wants to talk about that again :p

Secondly if they are implemented I quite like the idea of making them variable.

Quote
4) As it is for squadron gestion, would it be somehow possible that the ranks can also be modified for a pilot by his leader, so that it corresponds to the one of his squad ?


Not going to happen. Your pilots rank is earned by playing missions. It's not really fair if it can just be assigned.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Roy Fokker on February 18, 2007, 02:49:01 PM
Quote from: karajorma;57324
Starlance killed you.


Starlancer had solved this in three different scenarios:

1. You eject, the enemy blows you away immediately.
2. You eject, and get picked up by the enemy med ship - you get a creepy little scene before they execute you. That was pretty cool.
3. You eject and your own med ship picks you up - the mission has failed, and you're either sacked, or your karma is so bad, it screws up your chances from then on.

In BtRL, there is no big war and fleet, and you're not just a cog in the machinery they can dismiss at any time. Also, most of the failed missions end with the destruction of the only place you can go back to.:nervous: To top it off, there is no real bonus system, you don't get medals or better ships, so that they take that away from you if you frak up a mission.

Now, there are situations where ejection would be welcome... so would it be possible to limit its use to, I dunno, only certain conditions are met? I mean, it  makes no sense to be able to eject out of a healthy Viper in the middle of combat... say, the ship would have to be totalled, or out of fuel. It would be easy to create a cutscene where a Raptor picks up the pilot...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Shade on February 18, 2007, 04:55:29 PM
Quote from: karajorma;57322
Invulnerable flag? :wtf: I don't see how that would help. Missiles are already invulnerable and bombs aren't. The issue is not with making invulnerable bombs but with making vulnerable missiles.
I may have misunderstood what you wanted to do :) As I read it, you basically wanted warheads that could be targeted but *not* destroyed. A bomb can be targeted - An invulnerable bomb can thus be targeted and not destroyed, hence my post. But yeah, I can see that this obviously wouldn't work if you also want to modify the AI behaviour to treat missile-size munitions differently from bomb-size ones.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 18, 2007, 05:15:03 PM
Quote from: Roy Fokker;57329
In BtRL, there is no big war and fleet, and you're not just a cog in the machinery they can dismiss at any time. Also, most of the failed missions end with the destruction of the only place you can go back to.:nervous:


Not necessarily. Look at FS2. Very few failed missions ended with the destruction of your base ship. There are plenty of ways to lose a mission without losing the Galactica. In fact if every mission consisted of defending the Galactica the game would get boring very quickly.

Quote
Now, there are situations where ejection would be welcome... so would it be possible to limit its use to, I dunno, only certain conditions are met? I mean, it  makes no sense to be able to eject out of a healthy Viper in the middle of combat... say, the ship would have to be totalled, or out of fuel. It would be easy to create a cutscene where a Raptor picks up the pilot...


Pretty much every game that uses eject has it mean instant mission failure or instant death. Either way the only sensible option is for you to replay the mission (unless you've got a branched campaign path in which case you're going down the mission failed path).

So in every case where you can eject you're almost always better off staying with your ship even with 1% hull and no bullets left in the hope that somehow you can still have your wingmen complete the mission for you if you distract the raiders long enough. Given that what happens if you fail to do this is exactly the same as if you eject (you replay) it makes it somewhat pointless to have ejection in the mission except as a pretty cutscene. As a player it makes more sense to stay with your ship.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Imperator on February 18, 2007, 05:25:27 PM
Quote from: Admiral Ace;57320
3) I really think that redouts and blackouts should be implemented, but instead of making the player tick off the option or not before the battle, why not adding the possibility to modify it ingame, by using a button that would be told to increase or decrease the pressurization inside the cockpit and then have an effect on the gravity field intensity (the Gs) - so actually the pilot would be able to change the intensity of each "'out" ingame, with the fact that lowering the Gs may have on the pilot's concentration and strength (joystick sensibility ? Game speed ?) ? There would be a balance to find, and each pilot would have its own.

I'm not sure if redouts and blackouts are a good idea. There are a lot of balancing issues between the living Raider and the Colonial pilot, you can see the raider making lots of quick turns eg. "The hand of god" - when the raiders pick up the transmission they flipped round pretty fast, "You can't go home again" - apollo next to starbuck, the raider flips a bit faster, (barring that Apollo is a terrible pilot) "Act of contrition" - starbuck stops and flips smoothly, although it was fast it wasn't as fast as the raiders.

Either the mkII handles like shit or they are moving that way so they don't hurt themselves. If all the above isn't reason enough then consider that the Cylons designed the Raider to be a fighter, even if they make for crappy team work and/or flying (occasionally:devel:) then it's most likely it can handle more stress than a Colonial pilot, they're only human after all. It would be nice for the Cylons to have the advantage of little or no blackouts, but I'd hate myself for the one sided battles and little balance it would create.

Just some thoughts....;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Roy Fokker on February 18, 2007, 07:34:52 PM
Quote from: karajorma;57334
So in every case where you can eject you're almost always better off staying with your ship even with 1% hull and no bullets left in the hope that somehow you can still have your wingmen complete the mission for you if you distract the raiders long enough. Given that what happens if you fail to do this is exactly the same as if you eject (you replay) it makes it somewhat pointless to have ejection in the mission except as a pretty cutscene. As a player it makes more sense to stay with your ship.


I guess I'm approaching this as a single player, because I never touched FS2 or most of other similar games, and I never played any game in multiplayer.:D

What I'm saying is - the ships in other games blow up on their own under certain circumstances. FS2 doesn't have that, and other than a suicide mission where you'd load a Viper up with explosives, point it at a target, and eject, there would indeed be no need for ejection. Earlier, I was thinking more in terms of - I run out of fuel, mission is over, eject, get picked up by a Raptor...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Sparky on February 18, 2007, 07:52:34 PM
Quote from: Shade.;57198
Everything after that is just simple math, really, nothing that can't be done with the existing arithmatic SEXPs. Biggest problem would actually be to make the ingame coordinate system somehow comprehensible to the player, as there's currently no indication of where you are in relation to it - It's all well and good to be able to jump to +1000, -200, -1700 at the press of a few keys, but it's no good if you have no clue where that actually is.


I actually kind of like that Idea, that you jump not knowing exactly where you will show up.  Basicly, the jump coordinates are given to you at start of the mission where FTL is required, and you have to punch them in.  This way the navigation would be a bit more realistic, since I doubt Raptor Pilots get to use nav maps.  Also, if you mistype, you end up inside a capship, planet, star, enemy fleet or perhaps just stranded.  Plus, it could be a sort of bonus for players who pay close attention to earlier missions, or perhaps some secret coordinates could serve as cheat codes, as to locations where players can refuel reload on ammo, repair damage, etc...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Shade on February 18, 2007, 08:07:52 PM
There's just one problem - I actually made a test mission to demonstrate how I'd envisioned doing it, and the bitch of it is that it doesn't work and I can't figure out why. I can get it to capture the first two digits, but after that it stalls despite each following capture event being a near-exact replicate of the first two (with just minor changes to make them happen at the right time and how the digit gets processed).

I'm hoping it's just some silly mistake that I've overlooked (it's a lot of SEXP work, so that's definitely in the realm of possibility), but having been over it three times I'm starting to doubt it at this point.

If I can get it sorted though, then all those things might be doable given enough long term planning :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: a50callovenote on February 18, 2007, 09:17:07 PM
Quote from: Herra Tohtori;56805
-Dynamic cockpit viewpoint.

Meaning two things:

1. In-game adjustable field of view, similar in fashion to IL-2 Sturmovik's general view, wide angle view and aiming view, for example.

2. Forces (accelerations) that affect pilot's head will slightly move the point of view. Meaning that if you hit the afterburner, the viewpoint moves perhaps 5-10 cm behind, so that if "show ship" flag is in use, the viewpoint's changing location will give an impression of real acceleration. Same with reducing speed, but the viewpoint should then move a bit forward. Or, if you're driving with the "stick in the balls" ie, turning upwards, the viewpoint would go a few centimetres down, and vice versa.

The viewpoint could be (in code) attached to a single "spring constant" field that tries to return it to the zero-g point, where no acceleration is exerted on pilot's head. If the pilot pulls g's, the viewpoint should move within set boundaries according to the force exerted on it in ship's reference frame. That part should be easy, but obviously it would require that the point of view is no longer fixed in the POFs...

In addition to creating more authentic immersion by increasing the feel of acceleration, collisions would also become more violent and believable - when your craft would hit something, the rapid acceleration would result in fast yank of the viewpoint to some direction before safety harness/belts stopped its movement. Just like in reality. Obviously, this feature should perhaps only be enabled when the cockpit view is in use. This feature would be extremely useful in standard FS2 too. The collisions particularly have always lacked the feel of mass behind the impact.


Another thing is obviously (optional) blackouts and redouts, which should definitely be somewhat easier to accomplish than dynamic viewpoint. They would add to the immersion significantly, and they would give the Raiders some edge because they would be able to withstand higher vertical acceleration than human pilots. Perhaps the blackout/redout critical acceleration value and the time for them to take effect should vary depending on difficulty setting?

Im not down for the whole blackout thing but is the acceleration effect possible?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: StarSlayer on February 18, 2007, 10:24:33 PM
Ive been an advocate for adding G forces into the game, especially as a "balance" for some of the better performing fighters.  It won't be for the demo, but i still like the idea for the main release, especially as some of the non canon craft begin to make their debut.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Fish on February 18, 2007, 11:16:39 PM
Wouldn't black/redouts make keyboards useless as an interface? With a joystick, you can control the amount of banking in a turn, but keyboards only have 'on' and 'off'. For example: you want to pull up or flip backwards, and so hit NUM 2, which instantly provides maximum G-forces and you black-out. Every time.

Or have I missed something? What situations would produce stronger G-forces? Unless you guys implemented it really well, it'd make the gameplay annoying more than anything else.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: a50callovenote on February 18, 2007, 11:16:44 PM
but how do you balance something like blackouts? i can see if there was a system in place that due to the more hours you play (online) the more experience you get, meaning the more gs you can take before blackout (or planes you are qualified to fly). if there was a way to condition your pilot to take it, that would be a cool added affect. but if you had it as a restriction that came with higher performance planes, then you would never be able to harness the planes full ability.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 19, 2007, 12:36:12 AM
Quote from: Roy Fokker;57354
I guess I'm approaching this as a single player, because I never touched FS2 or most of other similar games, and I never played any game in multiplayer.:D


It's true in multiplayer. If you eject you're just a free kill for someone. If you stay in your fighter at least you might take them down at the same time.

That's true regardless of whether you have respawns left or not.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 19, 2007, 02:49:27 AM
Quote from: Fish;57382
Wouldn't black/redouts make keyboards useless as an interface? With a joystick, you can control the amount of banking in a turn, but keyboards only have 'on' and 'off'. For example: you want to pull up or flip backwards, and so hit NUM 2, which instantly provides maximum G-forces and you black-out. Every time.

No. For starters, it takes both a lot of acceleration and some 10-20 seconds of it to start taking effect. Tapping the key will work just fine, but obviously analog control like joystick or mouse would be better.

Secondly, you have to think what causes a blackout/redout. It's the acceleration "down" or "up" (respectively). And that is a thing that would actually in reality affect a ship like Viper surprisingly little due to small amount of thrust it is able to provide on "upwards" or "downwards" direction.

Technically, most of the acceleration is headed forwards due to big honking thrusters in the rear end of the spacecraft. There's no air to force your craft "upwards", which makes airplanes fly and pilots have blackouts in tight turns.

Thus, blackouts could be restricted to possible atmospheric missions or situations where you for example collide with something (simulating dizziness), or possibly to flying when you're wounded.

Heh, I guess there's a new feature proposition. We have after all seen pilots getting wounded, especially in raptors. Also, you could add life support system failure - after it's gone, you have few minutes of effective flying time and then you start to pass out.

And please, no self-repair on subsystems if it's possible at all.


but I digress...

Anyway, in space there's two kinds of maneuverability: Being able to change your orientation (attitude) swiftly and accurately, and changing your vector (velocity and it's direction). Usually, fighter planes (also space fighters) have the pilot at the center of gravity, so that only little radial acceleration is applied to pilot's body when the craft spins, because he or she is in the center of the rotation. Thus Apollo's comment about Blackbird's center of gravity location.

You can simulate the effects of fastly changing your orientation by sitting on an office chair and spinning around moderately fast for about five minutes. It doesn't create blackouts but it disturbs your inner ear fluid movements due to their inertia and can cause dizziness and nausea. And vomiting onto a space suit can get you killed just as properly as a round in the chest (exept if you're Adama). First, in zero-g the fluids will prevent you from breathing. Another, you'll get hydrochlorid acid into your eyes. Not pleasant experience probably.

But it's the vector changes that cause actual blackouts that airplane pilots experience. Since space fighters mostly change their vectors by first changing their orientation and then applying thrust forwards, the most remarkable forces applied to pilot are forwards, which causes sensed g-forces to be directed backwards.

And even if you would use more traditional blackout system (possibly relevant in possible atmospheric missions) and count the g-forces from angular velocity and radial distance from circular movement's centerpoint, it doesn't mean that blackouts would be limiting crafts' capabilities. If you reduce the speed, you will be able to maneuver better without fear of blackouts. And vice versa - if you want to press your ship to maximum speed, you'll have to maneuver a bit more carefully.


Man, I have to learn to compress the physics into shorter form one of these days...:lol:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Tikey on February 19, 2007, 03:31:14 AM
It would be interesting with the blackout thingy to have some kind of warning before it happens, like blured or distorted vision, that way you know it's time to calm down before it gets worst.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on February 19, 2007, 03:36:24 AM
Well blacking out is a progressive thing, it's not instant, even in real life. Your vision gets darker and darker until you completely lose consciousness - so we'd have to do it like that anyway :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Fish on February 19, 2007, 03:44:22 AM
Yeah, I know what causes blackouts, etc :p

I just wanted clarification on how they keyboard would affect their onset. From what people were saying earlier, putting the craft through the most extreme manoeuvers would be practically impossible due to black-outs, and since keyboard controls have only an extreme control influence then I got worried.

In other words, think about the practicalities, rather than the realities. I'm sure that'll be done in the end, but I'm surprised by how much support their is for something that would be really annoying - especially when such things haven't even been seen in the show.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 19, 2007, 08:11:28 AM
The problem with blackouts and redouts is that you'll need a coder with a strong grasp of physics and maths to code it in. I think that WMC is probably the coder who comes closest to that but I think he'd probably say that this is beyond him.

So if there are any physics geeks out there who can code, now might be the time to speak up. :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Tikey on February 19, 2007, 09:26:46 AM
Don't know if this is in the game or not BUT I'd like to be able to give pointers to my wingman in multiplayer. As if I'm being attacked and need help, that my wingman after recieving my message gets a pointer, an arrow or wathever giving my position and perhaps the position of my attacker, the same if I want him to attack a particular target. All this obviusly withot deselecting his current target.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: a50callovenote on February 19, 2007, 09:45:19 AM
Quote
Don't know if this is in the game or not BUT I'd like to be able to give pointers to my wingman in multiplayer. As if I'm being attacked and need help, that my wingman after recieving my message gets a pointer, an arrow or wathever giving my position and perhaps the position of my attacker, the same if I want him to attack a particular target. All this obviusly withot deselecting his current target.

I believe this is already in freespace 2
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Hedgepig on February 19, 2007, 11:55:33 AM
How about this for the ejecting...

When your ship is almost destroyed, a warning sounds letting you know that you can eject (no ejecting before the sound to stop people ejecting from healthy ships). If you manage to eject before being blown away the entire mission gets put on hold (in terms of objectives changing etc.) and a short animation plays as you get picked up by a raptor and taken back to Galactica (assuming it's not destroyed while you're floating about). Then you can launch in a brand new viper and continue the mission from where you left off, basically giving you a few 'extra lives' to complete the mission without having to start over.

Of course, you'd have to be quick on the eject key, or it's curtains. :squeeze:

Although, that may be completely outside the realm of FS2, it's just a thought.

Quote from: a50callovenote;57365
Im not down for the whole blackout thing but is the acceleration effect possible?


I'd also really like to see the acceleration effect. They used that in I-War 2, and it really made a big difference, it felt much more dynamic not having your head rigidly attached to the cockpit.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Shade on February 19, 2007, 12:26:01 PM
Quote
Don't know if this is in the game or not BUT I'd like to be able to give pointers to my wingman in multiplayer. As if I'm being attacked and need help, that my wingman after recieving my message gets a pointer, an arrow or wathever giving my position and perhaps the position of my attacker, the same if I want him to attack a particular target. All this obviusly withot deselecting his current target.
The sender of a message is indicated by white brackets around the ship on the HUD, and there are keys to both target the sender of the last message (Alt-Y) and to target the attacker of your target (G), which in combination should cover all of the above nicely :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: a50callovenote on February 19, 2007, 07:15:27 PM
is there a hud change for the cylon raider? since there isnt a cockpit...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on February 19, 2007, 07:19:26 PM
Quote from: a50callovenote;57489
is there a hud change for the cylon raider? since there isnt a cockpit...


There will be cockpits in the full version (and I'm going to ask if maybe we can release them as an add-on for the demo - that's not up to me though, so don't take that as saying there will be ANY add ons for the demo).
But for the Raider, there will probably be a 3D cockpit, although it may be minimal (maybe just looking out from the "eye" section). And yes, there will probably be a HUD change later on (after the demo), differentiating the Raiders and the Vipers.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 19, 2007, 09:32:56 PM
Quote from: Unknown Target;57490
There will be cockpits in the full version (and I'm going to ask if maybe we can release them as an add-on for the demo - that's not up to me though, so don't take that as saying there will be ANY add ons for the demo).


They'll definitely be mission add-ons. We'll be including FRED and I'll bet that at least one of you is capable of making a multi mission worth validating :D

Anything else is much more sketchy. One thing we're not doing is descending into forum support hell by having an update and no way to inform people that they need to download it apart from telling them on the forums.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Starchaser on February 20, 2007, 09:39:53 AM
Quote from: karajorma;57440
The problem with blackouts and redouts is that you'll need a coder with a strong grasp of physics and maths to code it in. I think that WMC is probably the coder who comes closest to that but I think he'd probably say that this is beyond him.

So if there are any physics geeks out there who can code, now might be the time to speak up. :)


This is my only issue with Battlestar, the whole Pilots feeling G-forces and such during space combat.  Red outs and Black outs and G-forces cant happen without Gravity hence why 99% of all space combat sims that I've played dont have it because its not "realistic" (Yes I am aware of using the realistic card when were talking about a fictional story :-p)

Personally I think a good feature in the game would be some kind of rewards system for Pilots who work in squadrons like I said in my first post here:

Quote
Third, what used to bug me to pieces in flight sims is when every single pilot used to go off on his/her own and not fly in squadrons. Will this game have say something like what Battlefield 2142 has where if your in a squad and you make a kill within a certain area around your squad leader you get a bonus point for working in a squad?


I used to hate it when you couldnt achieve anything because everyone is off trying to fight their own battle to get ontop of the leader board.  Personally I prefer to have a lower death rate than a higher kill rate.

Maybe you should look at an unlock system as well.  More kills the more points you have more points equal higher rank.  Higher rank equals certain unlocks like being able to fly Custom vipers, say a viper with a lil less speed but thicker armour.  Or a viper with alot less armour but much faster and manouverable.  Possibly something to look into doing once the game has been released as an add-on or something?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Fish on February 20, 2007, 10:09:12 AM
Quote from: Starchaser;57543
Red outs and Black outs and G-forces cant happen without Gravity

False. For explanations, read the other posts in this thread.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 20, 2007, 12:08:35 PM
Quote from: Starchaser;57543
Maybe you should look at an unlock system as well.  More kills the more points you have more points equal higher rank.  Higher rank equals certain unlocks like being able to fly Custom vipers, say a viper with a lil less speed but thicker armour.  Or a viper with alot less armour but much faster and manouverable.  Possibly something to look into doing once the game has been released as an add-on or something?


This is currently possible in a limited fashion in TvT or coop (not in the demo but using the features the full release will have). The way it would work is that you play a multiplayer campaign. You would then unlock ships for your entire team to use based on their kills in the first (and subsequent) missions.
 Unfortunately it's not currently possible in dogfight mode though as there is no way to string dogfight missions together into a campaign and the ships pools are shared (so you could unlock a cool ship and then someone with less kills could be a little faster than you and grab it).
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Shade on February 20, 2007, 02:29:16 PM
Quote
This is my only issue with Battlestar, the whole Pilots feeling G-forces and such during space combat. Red outs and Black outs and G-forces cant happen without Gravity hence why 99% of all space combat sims that I've played dont have it because its not "realistic" (Yes I am aware of using the realistic card when were talking about a fictional story :-p)
None of those things have anything to do with gravity, which, by the way, space is full of anyway. Just because you don't feel it doesn't mean it's not affecting you:

What keeps satellites in orbit? Gravity. What keeps Earth orbiting the sun? Gravity. What causes the lensing effect that can be observed around heavy stars as the path of light is slightly bent? Gravity. What astronauts experience as "Zero-G" is simply a perpetual free-fall with no air resistance due to everything around them free-falling along with them.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Dukeman42 on February 20, 2007, 04:03:37 PM
Quote from: Starchaser;57543
This is my only issue with Battlestar, the whole Pilots feeling G-forces and such during space combat.  Red outs and Black outs and G-forces cant happen without Gravity hence why 99% of all space combat sims that I've played dont have it because its not "realistic" (Yes I am aware of using the realistic card when were talking about a fictional story :-p)



Two words:  Centripital force.  


(or is it centrifugal force?  I remember my physics professor stating that one of them didn't really 'exist' per se...just don't remember which!)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: StarSlayer on February 20, 2007, 04:29:41 PM
Well i already put my serious ones on the internal but i think ill trow a few out there.

More accurate collision effects.  If you clip something at speed you should pinnwheel uncontrollably until you fight back for control.  The current FS2 system is kinda blah.

More accurate damage model.  Right now its pretty generalized, while guns stutter when damaged until healed most of its all or nothing.  having damage effect flight ops accurately would be more interesting.  IE your engines and thrusters get shot to hell your fighter performs like a staggering drunk.  That and head shots, shots to the raiders braincase or the canopy result in one cold coasting fighter plus its canon.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Mjolnir2000 on February 20, 2007, 04:49:47 PM
^^Great avatar.  Haven't played the Journeyman Project in so long, might have to dig it out again.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: M-562 on February 20, 2007, 05:54:23 PM
Quote from: Starchaser;57543
This is my only issue with Battlestar, the whole Pilots feeling G-forces and such during space combat.  Red outs and Black outs and G-forces cant happen without Gravity


Thats not true, you see blackouts and redouts happen as a result of G-forces which is in the pilot's case generated by the motion of the craft. For the pilot it feels like he's being pushed against againts the graft like gravity pushes us to the planet earth. Also the quick changes of motion cause blood to move from one place to another place en masse. which causes blood shortage or too much blood in certain areas of your body.

This is my theory:
Not enough blood in brains= blackout
too much blood in brains= redout
(I think it makes perfect sence but heck. I ain't no doctor)

Also in one episode (hand of god I think you know with the Fuel problem on the cylon occupied asteroid) Starbuck wanted to join in on the mission, but Commander Adama said she wasn't fit enough. With weights he showed her she couldn't pul the Gs because of the force of the leg. You see. G-forces exist in space as well. which reminds me, they are trying to get artificial grav on the ISS by g-forces.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 20, 2007, 06:17:37 PM
G-Forces are so named because they are measured in equivalents to 1 Earth gravity not because they actually require gravity to exist.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Flipside on February 20, 2007, 06:34:27 PM
Hmmmm... Many years ago there used to be something called 'centrifugal force', it is still commonly used today, hence the name 'centrifuge' for seperator machines, basically, it was the name given to the force that attempts to throw a non-fixed object away at a tangent from a rotating object.

Red-outs and Black-out are, basically more like the feeling you get when you are on the roundabout in the park and being spun at ridiculous speeds, I've had Red-out, and it's not pleasant, to be honest, games never represent it properly, it's not the actual red-out that is so dangerous, it's the complete loss of orientation and the dizzy spell that goes with it.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 20, 2007, 07:00:10 PM
Centrifugal force is an apparent force just like gravity. It only appears in some co-ordinate systems, namely rotating ones. When the reference co-ordinate system is fixed to the spaceship, centrifugal force can be measured manifesting as acceleration towards the outside of the curve.

In inertial co-ordinates system, there is only centripetal force and it's effect, centripetal acceleration, which cause an object to travel on a circular path instead of a straight one. It all comes clearer when you don't think that there's a force pressing you down (out-curve) when you're pulling tight turn in airplane; instead you should think that it's the airplane pushing you "up" (ie. towards the center of the circle you are moving in).

Centripetal force is a real force that always affects as a normal to the velocity vector and towards the center of the circular motion. It is real force, as opposed to apparent forces like centrifugal force, coriolis force and (to some extent) gravitational pull, which all are relative to co-ordinates used.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Tikey on February 20, 2007, 07:19:07 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Another pyshics discussion nooo! My brain can't take that much :(
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Flipside on February 20, 2007, 07:24:50 PM
:naughty:

Quote from: Herra Tohtori;57562
Centrifugal force is an apparent force just like gravity. It only appears in some co-ordinate systems, namely rotating ones. When the reference co-ordinate system is fixed to the spaceship, centrifugal force can be measured manifesting as acceleration towards the outside of the curve.

In inertial co-ordinates system, there is only centripetal force and it's effect, centripetal acceleration, which cause an object to travel on a circular path instead of a straight one. It all comes clearer when you don't think that there's a force pressing you down (out-curve) when you're pulling tight turn in airplane; instead you should think that it's the airplane pushing you "up" (ie. towards the center of the circle you are moving in).

Centripetal force is a real force that always affects as a normal to the velocity vector and towards the center of the circular motion. It is real force, as opposed to apparent forces like centrifugal force, coriolis force and (to some extent) gravitational pull, which all are relative to co-ordinates used.


Yeah, I had a feeling the Centrifugal wasn't a 'real' force, but a combination of several.

Basically, going back to the analogy of the roundabout, just because you can feel a force pulling you off the rounabout doesn't mean that everyone in the universe can, it's the same with Redout and Blackout, the machine you are in is generating the forces, not the universe, so as long as you are interacting with that machine, you are subject to whatever forces it applies on you, regardless of gravity etc.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 20, 2007, 08:02:09 PM
Quote from: Tikey;57565
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Another pyshics discussion nooo! My brain can't take that much :(


I'll split it off if there is any more of it. :D

I think the point has been made. :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 20, 2007, 08:06:23 PM
Exactly.

And the physics for counting the centripetal acceleration is really simple in the end.

I cannot code, but the mathematics is easy. Centripetal acceleration is

a = -w^2 * r

where w (actually, it would be omega but I can't bother to use those pesky greek letters now) is the angular velocity in radians per second and r is the radius of the circular movement. Radius of the movement is easy enough to calculate, since velocity equals radial velocity multiplied by the radius, thus

r = v / w

Insert into the formula and voilá...

a = -w*v

Where w is the angular velocity and v is the linear (forward) velocity. In a shooter like FS2 things get really simple because the ships move like they were on rails, which means that turn rate equals the angular velocity to great enough accuracy to be used. So, FS2 already provides two values from which the centripetal acceleration can easily be calculated, if it's required. Then it's just trivial matter to make the acceleration have some effect on pilot vision.

I would think that there should be a loop for both blackout and redout... simplest solution would be to build a loop that probes the centripetal acceleration values. If acceleration reaches a certain threshold value, a timer starts to count in and gradually darkens/reddens the screen unless the turn is eased up. More complex solutions can always be coded.

However, in the case of BtRL it's not that simple, since ships can do some maneuvers where they don't really move completely forwards. That would require building a script that would define the vertical acceleration directly rather than from angular linear velocity.:shaking:


EDIT: Cross-posted with kara. I'll stop it here, I don't also think there's anything else to be said about this that could contribute to actual topic...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Admiral Ace on February 20, 2007, 08:55:12 PM
Errr...quite sorry to help launching this out, in some way, but I think it has been quite interesting. I won't make my point regarding my previous explaination of the pressurisation control ; actually, I've never said that the Gs depend directly on the gravity (to the v² of the 1/2mv2 inertia force, as an acceleration) but that the official name of this value (G) is "the intensity of the gravity field". That's it, closing the shop :p
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: a50callovenote on February 20, 2007, 08:57:40 PM
so.... will there be a way to turn off the inverted look, because for some reason wing commander prologue cut this out. im just hoping its not a fad.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 20, 2007, 09:36:54 PM
Inverted look?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on February 20, 2007, 09:39:34 PM
I think he means inverting the joystick? Which is bizzarre, I can't see anyone playing a sim without an inverted stick. AFAIK FS2 doesn't have an option to turn it off, although it might be/probably is possible.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Imperator on February 20, 2007, 09:43:16 PM
Quote from: StarSlayer;57554
Well i already put my serious ones on the internal but i think ill trow a few out there.

More accurate collision effects.  If you clip something at speed you should pinnwheel uncontrollably until you fight back for control.  The current FS2 system is kinda blah.

More accurate damage model.  Right now its pretty generalized, while guns stutter when damaged until healed most of its all or nothing.  having damage effect flight ops accurately would be more interesting.  IE your engines and thrusters get shot to hell your fighter performs like a staggering drunk.  That and head shots, shots to the raiders braincase or the canopy result in one cold coasting fighter plus its canon.

And the same goes for Viper pilots, which is also canon. "The hand of God" - poor chuckles, I won't say anything further...:biggrin1:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on February 20, 2007, 10:03:42 PM
Star's suggestions are also interesting - I have some ideas on how to do them, although they'd require code changes (some minor, some major).
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 20, 2007, 10:46:01 PM
At any rate, I'd like to see less complete destruction explosions on both fighters and capital ships. I would in fact prefer if those were spared for direct missile/flak cannon hits and some rare cases with gunfire. Otherwise, smaller explosions (from HE rounds) and the target either disintegrating to debris or being left as floating piece of space junk would be more realistic.

You know how the FS2 ships do the deathspin before exploding? Well, what would happen if that deathspin was either prolonged or would simply continue, depending on what kind of damage took the fighter down? It could explode, disintegrate without larger explosions, or it could keep in one piece, spinning through the battle area.

Flashy explosions get old when there's a surplus of them. More diverse deaths could be a nice addition. Also, it would make it relevant to really work on the aiming and evasion skills when one well-aimed shot can bring the enemy down - and obviously it gets even more important because of the fact that we're going to have limited ammunition.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Sparky on February 21, 2007, 12:23:01 AM
Quote from: karajorma;56869


@ saruman178 - Historical Campaign - Trust me it's not easy. The problem with a lot of episodes is that they look great on screen but they don't work as missions. Hand of God for instance is one that gave me many problems before we decided to make it a full release mission instead of demo.
 If you watch the episode there's not much to it. Launch from the Colonial Movers. Fly to the asteroid (no Cylon Raiders so no resistance). Skim across the asteroid surface. Everyone has seen the episode so they'll all be heading straight for the tunnel. Once they get in they fly straight through, pop out of the opening and fire for the first time in the mission. One hit kill and the mission is over. Looked great in the show but apart from avoiding the flak before starting the run where is the challenge? Sure you can have the player help deal with the Cylon Raiders that were fighting the rest of Galactica's Vipers but that's a bit anti-climactic after you've completed the main objective.

Hand of God will appear as a mission sooner or later. You can trust me on that but the issues involved in making it into a proper playable mission rather than just a recreation of the episode in the game engine whilst not stomping all over canon mean that very few of the Historical Battles are easy to make.



I know people have talked the Hand of God mission to death, but why not make the mission to deal with the Raider's drawn from the base in the diversion.  While it may sound stupid, because you have either, "embark on dangerous mission which, if succesful, will ensure the future of the fleet", or "Cover Apollo's butt", but I think a major, drawn out battle might prove more interesting than taking out a single target in a mine.  Or at least a choice between the two would be cool.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: a50callovenote on February 21, 2007, 06:43:22 AM
Quote from: Unknown Target;57575
I think he means inverting the joystick? Which is bizzarre, I can't see anyone playing a sim without an inverted stick. AFAIK FS2 doesn't have an option to turn it off, although it might be/probably is possible.

well from what i can remember i could turn inverted mouse off.... so if i were to scroll up with the mouse the nose of the fighter would go up, and vice versa. is this no longer possible?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Akula on February 21, 2007, 07:08:30 AM
Quote from: Herra Tohtori;57584
You know how the FS2 ships do the deathspin before exploding? Well, what would happen if that deathspin was either prolonged or would simply continue, depending on what kind of damage took the fighter down? It could explode, disintegrate without larger explosions, or it could keep in one piece, spinning through the battle area.


While we're at it, instead of having just one model for each ship, let's have 2112. That way, when the battle gets REALLY intense and there are 10 ships on the screen, there will be 21120 models and even on high end systems the game will lag.

I mean, no one REALLY wants a battle with more then 10 ships anyway, right?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 21, 2007, 07:54:35 AM
:lol:

That doesn't make any sense. What I'm talking about is this:

-a craft dies (which doesn't mean that the hull must be at zero...). Piece of code goes through the subsystem damage to define how bad beating the ship took before being destroyed. From that it will choose between few options on how the ship dies - length of the deathroll and how it ends, for example (big explosion/small explosion/no explosion).

If none of the subsystems have received substantial damage, but the hull of the fighter simply goes to zero, the ship would enter a short deathroll and disintegrate to debris parts with no explosions or some very little ones only.

If subsystem "Pilot" is destroyed, the ship would just enter a deathroll and keep spinning without explosion, which is what would happen in the first place anyway.

If engine or fuel system gets destroyed, the ship would blow up almost instantly. Perhaps also if ammo magazines or missiles are hit.

It wouldn't really add to any lag as far as I know. Having the models hanging around after the ship is dead shouldn't really affect performance; if it does it's time to reduce the amount of fighters in the mission to start with. In fact this method is partially already used in FS2 (I dunno if it's SCP addition or retail behaviour, though): When you shoot at a ship in a deathroll it explodes immediately; If you don't, it'll spin longer and then explode. But the variety ends there, even though there would be more options usable.

Of course, one solution would be to change the behaviour of "disabled" fighters, or perhaps of those that have "Pilot" or "Flight Controls" subsystem destroyed, or something like that... Namely so that if a ship's pilot gets killed or ship's flight controls are disabled, it'll not stop dead in space but instead it'll retain the linear velocity and angular velocity it had when it was disabled - that would mean that it would continue on a linear path, spinning around at constant rotation speed.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Tikey on February 21, 2007, 07:57:12 AM
Quote from: Akula;57616
While we're at it, instead of having just one model for each ship, let's have 2112. That way, when the battle gets REALLY intense and there are 10 ships on the screen, there will be 21120 models and even on high end systems the game will lag.

I mean, no one REALLY wants a battle with more then 10 ships anyway, right?

Well, that could be arranged by having the ships exploding when player respawns.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Akula on February 21, 2007, 08:41:05 AM
Well, the way I understand...the more models in the mission, the more there is for the computer to keep track of.

In a game like X-Wing VS. TIE Fighter, or X-Wing Alliance there are clear numerically defined limits for how many models can be on screen at a time. You set up mission commands so that when one flight is killed the next one jumps in, thereby never exceeding the limits but still having a maximum number of models on screen at a time.

Weather the ship is shooting or not, the model still has to be tracked by the computer and displayed at the proper time. You would essentially be adding new models everytime a new ship came into the missions...without EVER reducing the level of models already in a mission, and if you think that's not going to reduce performance then you're frakked up in your thinking already.

I don't know what the limits are in FS2, I'm sure they're much higher, but they are still THERE, and there's no way around that. Additionally you talked about having capital ships break into pieces, then you would have, say, four models spinning through space where they used to be one, which eats up even more memory and slows things down even more.

It's far simpler to blow up the model then risk exceeding the limits of the engine, or the computer.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 21, 2007, 09:13:04 AM
Well, considering that all the fighters (and cap ships too, at least for the most part) in FS2_Open already do release a bunch of debris that floats around the battlefield for a long long time, I don't think it's gonna be an issue. "Battle of Endor" missions don't really work very well in the first place as far as I know anyway, and even in a prolonged dogfight only a part of the fighters would be disabled - those that get a headshot or are otherwise damaged and become uncontrollable, makes no difference for the gameplay. Most fighters would likely be disintegrated in a similar fashion that it goes on in current FS2_Open - it would just be a question of how long the ships would spin until disintegration, and whether or not they would explode. I don't think this particular feature would make a big difference in performance.

I could be wrong, though. It is known to have happened... :)

Obviously more models requires more performance, but in FS2_Open I think the game hits software limits before hardware performance limits on most computers these days. And those playing with older computers could of course be given option to not use the features that require high performance.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Imperator on February 21, 2007, 04:26:32 PM
Quote from: Sparky;57593
I know people have talked the Hand of God mission to death, but why not make the mission to deal with the Raider's drawn from the base in the diversion.  While it may sound stupid, because you have either, "embark on dangerous mission which, if succesful, will ensure the future of the fleet", or "Cover Apollo's butt", but I think a major, drawn out battle might prove more interesting than taking out a single target in a mine.  Or at least a choice between the two would be cool.

Why not make things easier and play the mission from a Cylon perspective? It won't be as boring, but it would defeat the purpose of having the Hand of God playable...:D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 21, 2007, 05:09:15 PM
Playing as a Cylon would be rather annoying in HoG as you're meant to lose in that mission. :p



Quote from: Sparky;57593
I know people have talked the Hand of God mission to death, but why not make the mission to deal with the Raider's drawn from the base in the diversion.  While it may sound stupid, because you have either, "embark on dangerous mission which, if succesful, will ensure the future of the fleet", or "Cover Apollo's butt", but I think a major, drawn out battle might prove more interesting than taking out a single target in a mine.  Or at least a choice between the two would be cool.

While that would be possible it would be hugely anticlimactic. If you ask people what they'd want from a mission based on HoG pretty much 9/10 responses are going to be that they want to fly down that tube like Lee did. Now while it's possible to get around it like you suggest the fact remains that I don't particularly want to get around it. I want to fly down that tube. I want to deal the deathblow to the Cylon refinery.

Meleardil has made an absolutely gorgeous model for the refinery and it would be a crying shame to not allow the player to see it up close. As I said before I've already got ideas on how to solve this problem and make HoG a fun, playable mission without deviating from canon. I'm not going to say how cause that will spoil it.

I just wanted to make it clear that turning episodes into missions isn't always a piece of cake even in the case of episodes you think might be.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: The Trivial Psychic on February 22, 2007, 02:15:27 AM
For HoG, you could always have the player be part of Lee's crew.   During the final run as pilots are getting picked-off by the AA missiles, I don't recall seeing as many fighters present as when the undocked from the freighter.  So, lets assume that a secondary team that was part of Lee's crew, broke off as they approached the asteroid, and went for a secondary target.  Perhaps they wanted to create a diversion from a different vector, so Lee's crew that were making the main run, would have fewer AA emplacements targeting them...  at least until they get to close range.  Primary targets for the player's group are AA emplacements and perhaps power generators or something.  Then, when the fighters in Lee's wing are getting picked off, the player has to attack AA emplacements on the central structure to give Lee a better chance.  Then, so Lee's fighter completes the run properly, the attack path for the key subsystem on the model, would start in the trench, follow through the tunnel, and pop up within the structure.  Using short radius figures for the path points should keep Lee from bouncing off too many walls.

Basically, the player has a supporting role in the engagement.  Then, perhaps when the refinery goes up, the players have to deal with some of the few Raiders that make it back... just to slip in some fighter combat.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Sparky on February 22, 2007, 06:13:15 PM
Hey, just thought of something.  What if you had a follow up mission to HoG?  I mean, it must have taken the mining ships several hours, if not several days to get all that tylium on board.  I rather doubt that it would have taken long for the Cylons to realize that their base was being attacked.  You could make a "king of the hill" style mission, where you have to defend the miners from continuous waves of cylon Raiders.  Just an idea.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 22, 2007, 06:17:15 PM
Quote from: Sparky;57736
You could make a "king of the hill" style mission, where you have to defend the miners from continuous waves of cylon Raiders.


That's not a king of the hill mission. You'll get to see what King of the Hill is when the demo comes out. :)
Title: More ideas..
Post by: Water Viper on February 23, 2007, 12:34:06 PM
Cap the flag is always fun,or shall we call it in BSG,cap the toaster baby...:nervous:
With debris do we get spaced Viper pilots as well after a blowup?Or just generic viper parts,bits and bobs.:( In the demo vids with the raiders going by by I see that we get "meaty bits"...:yes: :yes:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Nithador on February 24, 2007, 10:54:23 AM
Hi guys haven't posted in while what i was thinking is that i think the mining ship is made up of different sections so perhaps you could have 3 asteroids which different parts of the ship are mining on. Then the cyclons are given an asteroid to attack. After that one is destoryed they are given another one. game finishes when all 3 are destoryed. Just an idea though it might be a bit complicated.

I'm not sure if menus were mentions but for example you start in CIC then single player takes you to that room where they plan the ops. Multi to the hanger deck. Options to that big white table in CIC something like that.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on February 24, 2007, 02:36:39 PM
The series has no indication (and the model argues against it), that the mining ship is detachable.

And the menus are up to LtC, but AFAIK we will be doing a complete redesign after the demo release.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: ReboStar on February 24, 2007, 04:54:32 PM
Multiplayer idea....

How about British Bulldog, you may call it something different though?.

Imagine 2 lines in space at opposite ends of the playing field.
One player is placed somewhere inside the playing field and all the other players lines up behind one of these lines No one is allowed to cross the line until the timer counts down.

Now the idea is for everyone to try and get to the other side with out being shot by the person who started in the play field, you have no ammo to return fire and are just trying to evade to complete your run.

If you do get shot before you get to the other side you join the first player in the center of the field for the start of the 2nd run.

Eventually there will only be one person left trying to evade and everyone else trying to shoot him down before he can complete a run.

I have no idea if it would work or even be able to be implemented for that matter.
Hope it all makes sense. :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: M-562 on February 24, 2007, 05:57:06 PM
If you are one of the last left, can you use the 'hunters' as a shield by performing tight maneuvres around them and hope the other miss but hit the other hunter.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: saruman178 on February 24, 2007, 06:17:07 PM
Sounds like a cool idea. There should be obstacles as in asteroids and scrap from capital ships and such.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Draco429 on February 25, 2007, 01:33:06 AM
There's tons of names that I've heard that called; it's an interesting concept.... maybe from one jump node to another... I imagine you'd use an UBER powerful weapon for a one-hit kill for a mode like that.

It'd be interesting, to say the least, but I'm not sure it fits the space-fighter sim genre all that well...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: kilo_foxtrot on February 25, 2007, 04:57:43 AM
Quote from: ReboStar;57926
Multiplayer idea....

How about British Bulldog, you may call it something different though?.

Imagine 2 lines in space at opposite ends of the playing field.
One player is placed somewhere inside the playing field and all the other players lines up behind one of these lines No one is allowed to cross the line until the timer counts down.

Now the idea is for everyone to try and get to the other side with out being shot by the person who started in the play field, you have no ammo to return fire and are just trying to evade to complete your run.

If you do get shot before you get to the other side you join the first player in the center of the field for the start of the 2nd run.

Eventually there will only be one person left trying to evade and everyone else trying to shoot him down before he can complete a run.

I have no idea if it would work or even be able to be implemented for that matter.
Hope it all makes sense. :)


This sounds hella awesome.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 25, 2007, 08:31:59 AM
Quote from: ReboStar;57926
Multiplayer idea....

How about British Bulldog, you may call it something different though?.

Imagine 2 lines in space at opposite ends of the playing field.
One player is placed somewhere inside the playing field and all the other players lines up behind one of these lines No one is allowed to cross the line until the timer counts down.

Now the idea is for everyone to try and get to the other side with out being shot by the person who started in the play field, you have no ammo to return fire and are just trying to evade to complete your run.

If you do get shot before you get to the other side you join the first player in the center of the field for the start of the 2nd run.

Eventually there will only be one person left trying to evade and everyone else trying to shoot him down before he can complete a run.

I have no idea if it would work or even be able to be implemented for that matter.
Hope it all makes sense. :)


Sounds like fun. More importantly, it sounds like a challenge to FRED it.

I think this will go on the pile of mission ideas to play with in my free time. :) I can probably use a lot of the tricks I learned from King of the Hill to make it work.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Nuke on February 25, 2007, 10:30:49 AM
why are you simply making a radar skin whin you can easily script an authentic dradis scope?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 25, 2007, 01:16:22 PM
Because we're releasing the demo using 3.6.9 and we don't want everything to break the second someone uses HEAD or 3.7 on it for one thing.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Nuke on February 27, 2007, 10:03:03 AM
even so the draw functions havent changed much, in fact they havent changed at all (as far as names or usage go) sence the implementation of the scripting system. with good comments you could write code which will be incredibly easy to update for the head builds.

also cutting edge builds are only of intrest to people who mod. your average player isnt gonna bother using an unoffitial build unless they have some technical difficulties or some egotistical need to have the newest build. its just a matter of saying this demo works on theese builds, anything else is unsupported.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on February 27, 2007, 12:24:05 PM
I suggest you take a look at the SCP and TBP forums more closely to see how well that works. :lol:

We'll have a proper scripted DRADIS in the full release but right now it's more hassle to add and support it than is worth it. Especially at this late stage in development.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: saruman178 on February 28, 2007, 01:09:42 AM
Maybe Countries Representing Different Flags for a Players Squadron Symbol (On multiplayer)

Proximity Mines.

Instead of Firing Countermeasures you fire mines.

Engine Wash should push your ship backwards.

And just a question On the multiplayer test vid a viper is shown flying backwards. How is going to be done on BTRL cause last time i checked you can't do that on FS2.

If you can someone let me know.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: StarSlayer on February 28, 2007, 01:16:16 AM
there is a glide feature, when you hit it and you maintain your momentum and vector but can reorient yourself.  There are also dorsal ventral port and starboard thrust ability, so that you can bounce around while flying along a vector.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Nuke on February 28, 2007, 01:17:16 AM
Quote from: karajorma;58191
I suggest you take a look at the SCP and TBP forums more closely to see how well that works. :lol:

We'll have a proper scripted DRADIS in the full release but right now it's more hassle to add and support it than is worth it. Especially at this late stage in development.


heh i see your point. this i think is why nukemod still lacks offitial script support.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Sparky on March 01, 2007, 05:33:17 AM
Um, just curious, but when firing weapons, are all the shots fired visible, or are there actually rounds between the tracers?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: StarSlayer on March 01, 2007, 05:46:03 AM
Doesn't appear that Galactica follows the mix of tracer and standard rounds protocol.  At least its always seemed that the muzzle flashes corresponded to the visible rounds and not to multiple rounds and an occasional tracer.  Unless UT corrects me BTRL uses only visible rounds, plus tracers fly a little different then regular rounds so you'll be more accurate with 100% visible rounds :P
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on March 01, 2007, 11:19:34 AM
Freespace 2 doesn't support weapons firing more than one graphic (i.e. a "blank" bitmap, then a laser bolt, then a "blank" bitmap). Even if it did, though, as far as I can tell BSG uses all tracer rounds, so I doubt we'd put it in anyway :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Sparky on March 13, 2007, 05:40:24 PM
This has probably been suggested elsewhere, but I was wondering if there could be a training arena in the game, where nugget players could learn to master the finer points of flying the Vipers and Raiders, rather than continously loose in one of the campaigns.  Perhaps based on that war game scene at the begining of Season Three, with the guns replaced with laser pointers.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on March 13, 2007, 07:24:36 PM
Well there are the gauntlets, which just sends larger and larger waves at you.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Turey on March 14, 2007, 08:24:20 AM
Quote from: Sparky;59645
This has probably been suggested elsewhere, but I was wondering if there could be a training arena in the game, where nugget players could learn to master the finer points of flying the Vipers and Raiders, rather than continously loose in one of the campaigns.  Perhaps based on that war game scene at the begining of Season Three, with the guns replaced with laser pointers.



There's also a training mission, which teaches you quite well.

Frankly, there's such a range of difficulties in FSO (and consequently in BtRL as well) that I haven't had a problem. If it's too difficult, bump it down to Easy or Very Easy.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Phantel on March 14, 2007, 08:06:07 PM
I'd like to see the four gunned viper seen elsewhere in this forum :)

Also ( and it's already been said before, so I state my vote ) limited fuel supply and ejection :)

Good Hunting!

Phantel
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Snagger on March 14, 2007, 08:20:30 PM
No flying through rings or corridors qualifying level!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on March 14, 2007, 09:23:17 PM
*delays demo another month to rewrite Basic Flight*


Only kidding :p
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: bsilver2988 on March 14, 2007, 10:11:24 PM
*almost has coronary reading that last post..then realizes karajorma was kidding*
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: PsychoticShroom on March 15, 2007, 12:18:25 AM
Quote from: karajorma;59711
*delays demo another month to rewrite Basic Flight*


Only kidding :p


Good god man, don't scare us like that :shaking:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on March 15, 2007, 12:21:48 AM
So it's now a month after I finish university?:p

*escapes a lynching mob*:shaking:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Imperator on March 15, 2007, 04:50:18 PM
Quote from: karajorma;59711
*delays demo another month to rewrite Basic Flight*


Only kidding :p

*forgets to read bottom line*

MALFUNCTIONING EDDY: WHAT! *boom*
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: ninja on April 15, 2007, 09:13:05 PM
More control config... A config file where you can put custom binds would be sweet, but for the short term I would like to see 1 quick improvement, being able to bind your lateral and vertical thrusters to axis as well as buttons would solve almost every problem I've experienced and open up possibilities for flying with duel sticks ;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: blud on April 15, 2007, 10:06:36 PM
would it be possible to have something in your hud light up to allow you to know when glide is enable/disabled?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: blud on April 15, 2007, 10:11:37 PM
while i am at it,how about a toggle-able full screen tactical map...showing all the positions of both friendlies and unfriendlies but in the dradis style,to add a more strategic flair maybe?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: SGT_R22eR on April 15, 2007, 10:22:02 PM
Quote from: ninja;67555
More control config... A config file where you can put custom binds would be sweet, but for the short term I would like to see 1 quick improvement, being able to bind your lateral and vertical thrusters to axis as well as buttons would solve almost every problem I've experienced and open up possibilities for flying with duel sticks ;)


You can config your controls in the option menu...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Trekologist on April 15, 2007, 11:08:53 PM
This was probably mentioned before, but I created an account here just to make sure. This could've been said somewhere else, so smite me for being lazy for not looking.

Would some type of auto-aimming be possible? I was thinking either something like in Halo 2, or something where the bullets arc towards your targeted enemy if they're close enough.

Me and a friend of mine have complained about how hitting the AI can be nearly impossible, with framerate and erract AI. But since making the enemy AI easier to hit would just take the fun out of it, I think some type of optional auto-aim would help a lot.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: black_library on April 15, 2007, 11:17:05 PM
Hmmmm.....I just had an idea> is it possible to have a option to shut down all systems on the ship and become invisible to radar by doing so? And then when u start ur engines again u become visible again?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on April 16, 2007, 12:14:35 AM
Quote from: Trekologist;67581
This was probably mentioned before, but I created an account here just to make sure. This could've been said somewhere else, so smite me for being lazy for not looking.

Would some type of auto-aimming be possible? I was thinking either something like in Halo 2, or something where the bullets arc towards your targeted enemy if they're close enough.

Me and a friend of mine have complained about how hitting the AI can be nearly impossible, with framerate and erract AI. But since making the enemy AI easier to hit would just take the fun out of it, I think some type of optional auto-aim would help a lot.


Sorry, but we will not be putting auto-aim into the game.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Adalla on April 16, 2007, 02:38:52 AM
Well, I've had my dreams for a decent space sim for years. And BtRL is as close as it has gotten (and it's just a demo right now).

Things I've always wanted to see:

1. Continuous flight to and from planets. I.e planetary re-entry, atmospheric flight (with good re-entry and atmospheric flight flight physics) and realistic landings and take offs from the surface. Similiarly, realistic landings and take offs from ships and actually landing the ship in there next to other ships.

I.e., I'm seeking for a space simulator that is much like the good flight simulators like MS Flight Simulator IL-2 Sturmovik etc.

Too often do they simply have a cutscene kick in when going from space to a planet, with nothing in between. Or too often you come close to a hangar on a spaceship and hit spacebar and mission is over.

For those of us who actually enjoy realism and "simulation" we seek such challenges that might seem boring or mundane. We don't just settle for shooting people up and wandering aimlessly in space.

A challenging take off, landing, or a chellenging re-entry and landing on a planet, those things would make my dreams come true. If I were a programmer, that is one of the first things I would work on in a space sim.

Honestly, that's all I ask for. I'd rather have these things implemented, than 100 other things that wouldn't really make it all that different from all other space "sims" of the past.

Adalla
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on April 16, 2007, 03:02:13 AM
If you really want seamless atmospheric entry, I suggest you check out Infinity: Quest for Earth. BtRL probably won't ever have seamless transitions because A) it's really hard to code, and B ) we don't need them.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: blud on April 16, 2007, 05:45:12 AM
jesus,this thread has me all types of thinking now.
what about a feature where u have a list of icons representing your wingmates and the target or whoever was targeting them pop up next to there icon and you would be able to see whoever needed assisting,press an assist keybind and you can help get that one of your wingies six.
someone stop me please...i am gonna stay up all night.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Azure on April 16, 2007, 06:32:32 AM
Quote from: Unknown Target;67594
Sorry, but we will not be putting auto-aim into the game.


isnt there some sort of auto aim if you are closer then 120 meters to your target? (i think i red something like that)

i asked this in another topic with no reply, so lets try again:
is it possible to make the missiles targetable and destroyable (like bombs in fs2) keeping the current settings (speed,range,ect, aslo really hard to hit) of the missiles?
if you want to follow the show, they did shoot down some missiles there (in mini series)
Title: 70s guns
Post by: badaa on April 16, 2007, 06:44:36 AM
bring the lasers of the first bsg back as a inbetween weapon. slower than
the guns but more powerful, but not as strong as the missles it
would be fun for mp at lest
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on April 16, 2007, 11:07:37 AM
Quote from: Azure;67649
isnt there some sort of auto aim if you are closer then 120 meters to your target? (i think i red something like that)


Nope.

Quote
i asked this in another topic with no reply, so lets try again:
is it possible to make the missiles targetable and destroyable (like bombs in fs2) keeping the current settings (speed,range,ect, aslo really hard to hit) of the missiles?
if you want to follow the show, they did shoot down some missiles there (in mini series)


We're looking into making them destroyable, but not targetable. :)

badaa: Sorry, no lasers. Maybe in a TOS mod offshoot, but there aren't any lasers in nuBSG so there' wont be any lasers in the mod.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: meleardil on April 16, 2007, 12:10:17 PM
Except the training lasers, thats already in the DEMO.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on April 16, 2007, 01:11:44 PM
Yea, but he means like the pew-pew lasers that do damage, not the training laser beams :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on April 16, 2007, 01:16:27 PM
I suspect you'll see those in BtRL one day. But only when someone does a TOS mod. :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: StarSlayer on April 16, 2007, 01:38:16 PM
Raptor would be so pissed :P
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Fairchild on April 16, 2007, 03:05:50 PM
can we get adjustible guns. I find that the point of aim being out only 120 m or whatever it was is too close.
I recall reading about wwII pilots that they used to adjust their guns for different hit ranges. one out for 1000 m one set for 500 or so.
If the default is that 120, is it possible to give the pilots a chance to change them before launch?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Tikey on April 16, 2007, 05:08:43 PM
Quote
We're looking into making them destroyable, but not targetable.

They aren't?! I could swear that I shot one down by chance the other day.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Tee on April 16, 2007, 06:36:03 PM
Quote from: Adalla;67623
....realistic landings and take offs from ships and actually landing the ship in there next to other ships...Too often do they simply have a cutscene ...when ...you come close to a hangar on a spaceship and hit spacebar and mission is over.

For those of us who actually enjoy realism and "simulation" we seek such challenges that might seem boring or mundane. We don't just settle for shooting people up and wandering aimlessly in space.

A challenging take off, landing, or a chellenging re-entry and landing on a planet, those things would make my dreams come true. If I were a programmer, that is one of the first things I would work on in a space sim.


I just want to stamp my own " I AGREE" on this one...will we be able to steer our vipers into the landing tubes during return? I mean, wouldn't it sort of be the same concept as flying inside those little ports on the Asteroid?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Lagorite on April 16, 2007, 07:25:12 PM
Quote from: Tee;67760
I just want to stamp my own " I AGREE" on this one...will we be able to steer our vipers into the landing tubes during return? I mean, wouldn't it sort of be the same concept as flying inside those little ports on the Asteroid?


Well, they land in the flight pods. Not the launch tubes. The pods are quite a bit bigger. But I agree that it would be cool with landings.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Wolfy on April 16, 2007, 07:29:11 PM
but.... landing in the launch tubes is crazzy.... no offence, but thats suicide AND mad.... if youve noticed the BIG holes on each end of the battlestars two flight pods, thats where you generally return... Unless your names appollo, and thenyou park in Colonial One and then Colonial One parks in Galactica (mini series, kind of, unsure if colonial one docked in Galactica then, but it defineatly has been in the hanger.

This then brings up size inconsistencies in my head, i know the flight pod is huge and all that, but is it really big enough to land a ship which has a viper in its own cargo bay?

also something possted quite recently on the forums is with glide, it would be nice to have a like, icon on screen for it.... i know someone mentioned the caps light on the keyhbard, but tbh, do that many people look at key board often enough to notice?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Josh_88 on April 16, 2007, 07:31:06 PM
they already are going to have the launch tubes in the game, and in the ingame videos im pretty sure at some point somebody flies through the landing pod. which id think implies you'd have to really land.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: StarSlayer on April 16, 2007, 07:31:33 PM
flightpod is about twice as big a a Nimitz class carrier
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Tee on April 16, 2007, 07:55:57 PM
Sorry, sorry...Flight Pods, not Launch Tubes! Aye, the noggin is achin, Laddie!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Roy Fokker on April 16, 2007, 07:59:39 PM
It was shown many times that dozens of Vipers can land in the pod simultaneously, as in "combat landings". Usually, they are supposed to land on platforms that bring the Viper straight down into the pod hangar - it's the same for all ships, like Colonial One - but in a combat situation, they just all land, leave the Vipers where they are, retract the pods and jump out.
Title: inside
Post by: badaa on April 16, 2007, 08:10:09 PM
you should be able do damge to battlestars and basestars
from the insided if you can get thourgh the anti air and
inside the landing bays.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Wolfy on April 16, 2007, 08:47:14 PM
Quote from: badaa;67778
you should be able do damge to battlestars and basestars
from the insided if you can get thourgh the anti air and
inside the landing bays.


They have :p

such as planting a nuke IN the basestar, and landing Centurions in the galacticas starboard pod...

all very fun... but that raises the point of, if i flew a raider, got past the flak, would i be able to blast the BS from the inside in BTRL?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on April 16, 2007, 08:53:08 PM
That's a standard FS2 feature :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Adalla on April 16, 2007, 09:34:58 PM
Quote
they already are going to have the launch tubes in the game, and in the ingame videos im pretty sure at some point somebody flies through the landing pod. which id think implies you'd have to really land.


Yeah, I know. I saw that too. But flying through a tube, and actually having realistic landing physics are two completely different things.

For example, in X-wing vs TIE Fighter, they have a nice rectagular hole on the side of capital ships, you simply go near it, and hit spacebar, and mission ends. You can position your craft in it, but the scaling is not accurate, and there is nothing in the hangar, it's just a big empty box.

In Avroch Conflict, another new space sim, there is even a training mission for landings, except, I that was a complete waste of time by the programmers, because all you do, is get your ship in the box, and once you are close enough, mission ends, and again, the so called hangar is just a bunch of pixels.

I mean, how hard can it be to model a hangar? I'm pretty sure the pods in the Battlestars have zero gravity, so you just use your RCS thrusters to make small adjustments and land on a pod, which then takes you down to the hangar deck below. So, if I guess in BSG, the pod is really a flat surface, and all the detail of the hangar is below the landing deck.

And I bet coding the pads that bring the fighters down into the hangar deck would be pretty hard. But, it would be awesome.

Either way, realistic hangar environments and interaction with cap ships would add a whole new dimension to space simulator realism. None so far have achieved it.

I don't understand why people think it's not important.

Adalla
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on April 16, 2007, 09:38:54 PM
Who says it's not important?

Figuring out combat landings is one of the reasons you still haven't seen the Battlestars yet. (Although less important than the fact that they aren't finished and are likely to be full of holes when converted even if they were :D )
Title: in responce
Post by: badaa on April 16, 2007, 10:03:15 PM
the laser thing i was thinking more of a addon for
multi player.

and the inside the battleship thing i dont
know about nukes or bombs i just thought
it would be fun to shoot up the hanger
from the inside
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: wildone_106 on April 16, 2007, 10:32:46 PM
this is definetly needed

Quote from: blud;67565
would it be possible to have something in your hud light up to allow you to know when glide is enable/disabled?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Josh_88 on April 17, 2007, 12:18:58 AM
no worries the devs plan on patching at some point and kara has already said that will be one of the things they take care of. we just have to wait for the patch. till then try using caps lock for glide. it was suggested because then you'd have the caps lock light on your keyboard
Title: battleship firepower
Post by: badaa on April 17, 2007, 07:45:33 AM
once the battleships are ready it would be cool to be able to
order missile, cannon strikes and boarding party's on an
enemy ships like being able to target and disable the enemy hanger or
systems. so the fighters can get in and attack. of course that depends
on how big a roll the bs's play in the game.
in multi player the team or squad leader would call them in.

the boarding party thing i know the cylons have that apc thing
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Lithium on April 17, 2007, 08:00:13 AM
I haven't read the entire thing, but a fix for the joystick "target dead zone" would be fantastic.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Kervala on April 17, 2007, 03:58:53 PM
Sorry if it was already posted before :(

But playing solo campaign in coop mode would be perfect :)

I always prefered coop mode than solo one (when it's implemented in a game :p) :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on April 17, 2007, 04:03:33 PM
I'd like to see a coop campaign but bear in mind that SP campaign is very complicated and a lot of the nuances of the campaign would have to be lost in the transition to MP. It's certainly not an easy task to convert either of those missions to MP.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: StarSlayer on April 17, 2007, 04:08:33 PM
I want to hang out the side door of the Raptor in my pilot suit and shoot down Raiders with my sidearm :pimp:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Kervala on April 17, 2007, 04:09:38 PM
I can understand problems to adapt some missions, but I'm confident :)

Thanks again for your great work :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on April 17, 2007, 04:44:00 PM
They're not insurmountable. It's just that by now I'm getting a little sick of Birth of a Legend and I don't want to play it any more. :p

That will pass in a few months and I might give it a go then. In the meanwhile if someone wants to port the SP missions to Coop they're more than welcome to do it. I'll even explain what the events are doing if they get stuck on the more complicated stuff :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: FSW on April 17, 2007, 06:06:56 PM
Are the battlestar's landing hangars retractable? It would be cool if they had a heavy-machinery sound-effect when in motion, followed by a 'lock'.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Tikey on April 17, 2007, 06:24:32 PM
A mission you have to land in the bays before they retract would be fun
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Tee on April 17, 2007, 06:36:55 PM
Quote from: FSW;67955
Are the battlestar's landing hangars retractable? It would be cool if they had a heavy-machinery sound-effect when in motion, followed by a 'lock'.


Duder, are you referring to the show, or the potential in-game Battlestar?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Tikey on April 17, 2007, 06:43:33 PM
I think he refers to the in-game Battlestar
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: newman on April 17, 2007, 08:36:07 PM
I think someone mentioned this before, but having an option to actually see the cockpit while flying would be really great (and look around it, possibly with the mouse and/or the joystick HAT switch). I understand it reduces visibility, and players who don't like that can keep this option off - but I've always found that it helps to make the player feel like he's really there - a feeling too many games lack lately.
Also, I don't know how doable - or practical - would this be, but some sort of manual thruster control, for advanced maneuvres?
Another thing the show has plenty of is nukes. Would be cool to have a nuclear detonation every now and then (either fired by the cylons, raiders sometimes carry them), or maybe even have a mission where you deploy one yourself?
Would be cool if your instruments went beserk for a while when caught near the blast, as a result of EMP..
Also, I don't know if this will fit the plot you guys put together, and I don't know if anyone mentioned this before (I didn't go through all 11 pages, sorry), but having the Galactica (or even the Pegasus) at least prepare it's nukes to fire (as seen in BSG episode "The Eye of Jupiter", where Adama preps the nukes and threatens to deploy them agains the temple on the planet surface). I always thought the Galactica looked great with all those nukes in firing position :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on April 17, 2007, 08:54:22 PM
newman, read this thread:
http://www.game-warden.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3860

Should answer most of your questions.

As for:

Quote
Another thing the show has plenty of is nukes. Would be cool to have a nuclear detonation every now and then (either fired by the cylons, raiders sometimes carry them), or maybe even have a mission where you deploy one yourself?
Would be cool if your instruments went beserk for a while when caught near the blast, as a result of EMP..

I don't see why not...it's just another weapon. Also, Freespace 2 already has a system in place where if you get hit by an EMP attack your HUD goes nuts.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Smeggers on April 17, 2007, 09:49:37 PM
Would it be too much to ask if we could be able to land upside down on the Pegasus that would be a really cool feature.
Title: ammo
Post by: badaa on April 17, 2007, 10:28:47 PM
you should have alt mode for the guns
so they shoot in burst for those who
use up ammo to easily
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on April 17, 2007, 10:46:00 PM
Smeggers: If we get the landing bays working, then I don't see why not.

badaa: Or you could just not hold down the trigger for two minutes straight :p
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: takashi on April 17, 2007, 10:49:38 PM
wing commander saga had launch/land feutures you could land anyway, sideways, upsidedown, at odd angles, anything. no gravity to keep you right-side up :p
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: badaa on April 17, 2007, 11:37:24 PM
Quote from: Unknown Target;68001
Smeggers: If we get the landing bays working, then I don't see why not.

badaa: Or you could just not hold down the trigger for two minutes straight :p


i dont i just hear poeple say it a lot
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: huzbum on April 18, 2007, 12:44:38 AM
I'm too lazy to read this whole thing...  
But what about "skippers"  I remember in the mini-series there were skipper missiles.  I'm not sure if they cloaked, or had limited FTL...  But either way the result is the same...  appear, re-aim, disapear.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: StarSlayer on April 18, 2007, 12:52:28 AM
um

are you thinking of Wing Commander?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Adalla on April 18, 2007, 01:08:53 AM
Quote
Who says it's not important?

Figuring out combat landings is one of the reasons you still haven't seen the Battlestars yet. (Although less important than the fact that they aren't finished and are likely to be full of holes when converted even if they were  ) - by karajorma


Wonderful :) I mean, in the TV show, landings seems pretty tough. I'm not sure, but it seems landings are similar to airplane landings in gravity and atmosphere, which I don't quite understand. Do the pods have gravity? I'm pretty sure they don't, cause I remember seeing a Raptor slowly positioning itself on top of a pad, taking it's time (in zero gravity) using the RCS thrusters, and then the pad took it below the flight deck to the hangar. Much like modern US Navy Aircraft carriers.

Will the transition from flight deck to hangar deck be modeled? And will the hangar have other vipers, perhaps even people and things moving around?

I know that's really a lot of coding just for aesthetic pleasure, but, it is these small things that differentiate fantastic games from ok games.

Here are some fan-made improvements to hangars in the X-wing Alliance Star Wars space combat sim. I am pretty sure you can't actually fly in these hangars, or if you can, there is very little physics to it, it's just like flying in a giant box with things you can hit, but no real landing/take-off, hangar flight physics.

(http://www.xwaupgrade.com/screenshots/hangar/hangara.jpg)
(http://www.xwaupgrade.com/screenshots/hangar/hangarf.jpg)
(http://www.xwaupgrade.com/screenshots/hangar/hangarg.jpg)

Something of that sort, with some  real flight physics , and some real damage physics (i.e. if you are not careful and bump into another fighter or object, ur a goner) would be awesome for BtRL :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on April 18, 2007, 01:18:20 AM
Quote from: huzbum;68022
I'm too lazy to read this whole thing...  
But what about "skippers"  I remember in the mini-series there were skipper missiles.  I'm not sure if they cloaked, or had limited FTL...  But either way the result is the same...  appear, re-aim, disapear.


Yea, that's...Wing Commander...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Trekologist on April 18, 2007, 02:41:00 AM
Then maybe, somehow, make the Cylons easier to hit. I have a joystick and found the controls very fun, but some getting used to. The first time I played the second mission on the demo I exhausted every one of my rounds and was trying to ram the Cylons. The second time, I played it, I took several minutes lining them up and I barely survived that mission with something like 25% hull integrity left and my wingman gone.

The third time was more satisfying, as I took them all out within a minute or two, but my wingman bit the dust.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Draco429 on April 18, 2007, 02:56:47 AM
Quote from: Adalla;68030

Here are some fan-made improvements to hangars in the X-wing Alliance Star Wars space combat sim. I am pretty sure you can't actually fly in these hangars, or if you can, there is very little physics to it, it's just like flying in a giant box with things you can hit, but no real landing/take-off, hangar flight physics.


Actually... those hangars only showed while the ship was taking off/landing. The actual hangar you saw while flying wasn't NEARLY that big and had NOWHERE near that much detail. You just got close, hit Spacebar and were done.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on April 18, 2007, 03:20:04 AM
Quote from: Trekologist;68051
Then maybe, somehow, make the Cylons easier to hit. I have a joystick and found the controls very fun, but some getting used to. The first time I played the second mission on the demo I exhausted every one of my rounds and was trying to ram the Cylons. The second time, I played it, I took several minutes lining them up and I barely survived that mission with something like 25% hull integrity left and my wingman gone.

The third time was more satisfying, as I took them all out within a minute or two, but my wingman bit the dust.


So...that means you're getting better. If after three times you can kill them well, then that just means the game takes more than one time to get good at it :p
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: huzbum on April 18, 2007, 03:25:29 AM
Really?  man...  has it been that long since I watched the mini-series?  LoL I could swear I saw starbuck shoot it down too...   But that would totally explain why I havnt seen them again.  I feel like an idiot...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: StarSlayer on April 18, 2007, 03:33:34 AM
that was a nuke
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: nimrod77 on April 18, 2007, 10:50:57 AM
How about in built voice communication in multi? Voice comms with the BSG radio sounds would be awesome :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on April 18, 2007, 11:58:31 AM
While waiting for built-in voice comms to work (if they will be done):

Ventrilo (http://www.ventrilo.com/)
TeamSpeak (http://www.goteamspeak.com/)

or even

Skype (http://www.skype.com):lol:

Ironically, you can set the sound quality lower, making it sound more like BtRL comm messages...:drevil:

Those being 3rd party programs, they naturally require a bit of setting up and hassle before the start of game... setting up a TeamSpeak server and obviously people need to join it thereafter. It would work better with dedicated servers, but for people who want voice comms, there are already options for that so I would guess it isn't a top priority in the SCP front.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Volw on April 18, 2007, 12:12:04 PM
I just can't wait to hear some 12yr old kid nicknamed 'Adama3215362' screaming over comms :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on April 18, 2007, 12:30:44 PM
Exactly the reason why I don't really think voice comms should be high priority code change.

Those who want to listen to mentioned screaming can do it... I will not likely bother do that.:p
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: uk_resistant on April 18, 2007, 02:00:08 PM
what about retractable landing gear? not essential would be a nice touch and would be great to do a empire strikes back where the allumininum falcon is attached to the star destroyer and invisible to scopes.

would also evoke silly nostalgic giggles from me based on making the wings deploy in  Xwing vs Tie
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on April 18, 2007, 02:35:02 PM
...that's Star Wars.

But yes, hopefully we will get retractable landing gear.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Lagorite on April 18, 2007, 02:36:13 PM
Quote from: uk_resistant;68116
what about retractable landing gear? not essential would be a nice touch and would be great to do a empire strikes back where the allumininum falcon is attached to the star destroyer and invisible to scopes.

would also evoke silly nostalgic giggles from me based on making the wings deploy in  Xwing vs Tie

Isn't that Star Wars? Not Battlestar Galactica.

Edit: Bah, Unknown Target beat me to it.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Dodger on April 18, 2007, 02:52:05 PM
more coders that help kara to upgrade fs2...lot's of sexps dont work in multiplayer...(like hide-hud. change-shipclass,......)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: uk_resistant on April 18, 2007, 03:50:19 PM
yeah i know its star wars, but vipers also have landing gear.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: blud on April 18, 2007, 04:13:37 PM
Quote from: uk_resistant;68116
allumininum falcon

i just had a thought of a tin foil falcon flying around.
blasting away at paper mache ties....am i the only one?:)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: FSW on April 18, 2007, 07:30:29 PM
For first-time players, it may help if the 'briefing' button on the main menu is made more prominent. I didn't notice it at first - it blends in perfectly with the screen art.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on April 18, 2007, 07:43:27 PM
Quote from: Dodger;68126
more coders that help kara to upgrade fs2...lot's of sexps dont work in multiplayer...(like hide-hud. change-shipclass,......)


Don't remind me.

Multiplayering non-functioning SEXPs was the bane of my existence about 4-5 months ago. It seemed like every single new thing I wanted to try was screwed over but SEXPs that didn't work. :)
Title: multi player
Post by: badaa on April 18, 2007, 08:55:56 PM
on the server screen there should be a counter to tell how many
people waiting online but not in a match. because a lot of people will
sit around and wait for 2 or 3 people to join. but so many do it
that know one does.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Foo on April 18, 2007, 09:10:56 PM
I don't know if this one has been mentioned, but XWA has an in game recording system. it would be cool if BTRL would also have that. It would be much easier then running another program in the background. :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Adalla on April 18, 2007, 11:47:55 PM
Actually something I noticed in MP. The only stat that I can see are my kills, nad the kills of the top 3 or 4 people I think.

It would be good to have a stats screen with everybody's kills, deaths etc.

And an end of mission stats screen.

Right now it's hard to record stats in leagues/competitions.

For example, k/d is a very important sat, and people must keep track of their own deaths and report them...

Adalla
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Azure on April 19, 2007, 06:29:50 AM
you can only see kill stats in dogfight (well something is wrong there, since i get two players stats, and an "alpha3" and "alpha4" with 0 kills).
its better not to see that stuff in other game styles imo.

"And an end of mission stats screen. "
a screen wich shows the end of mission (like respawn limit, kill limit, ect) would be nice (maybe put it in f4 menu, there is lots of space there)

"Right now it's hard to record stats in leagues/competitions.
For example, k/d is a very important sat, and people must keep track of their own deaths and report them..."
Why is that? after the game, you can see these stats in debfriefing (just press statistics button)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on April 19, 2007, 08:41:23 AM
It might be nice to have the game report them directly though, and I do like the idea of an extra option in the F4 screen to display the kill matrix.

And I know about that bug you mention with it adding Alpha 3 and 4. My bet is that it was caused by the FS2_Open upgrade to having 5 ships on the escort list as opposed to the 3 which Retail FS2 allowed. Somewhere in the dogfight code is a bit of code which only bothers to report back the stats for the first 3 ships.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Przemo-c on April 20, 2007, 12:48:11 AM
1. Abiut the glide i know that makeing it realistic would be boriing (exiting glide from afterburner witch 180 degerees turn to full speed would take about 20 sec) but a byt loger time to change the direction would be nice so i coud get a faster  aim on someone exiting glide not just sudden change of direction that i can follow after he's going there but wghen he's exitig glide i would have 1-2 sec more to aim the new direction.

Also that by using thrusters and moving arount in glide you could change your glide direction.

2 Joystick control ... it would be great if you could make not only deadzone adjustable but to be able to adjust recponce curve to joistick input... adjusting that for example moving lever by from 0-1cm would result in in smaller movement on screen than from 1-2cm.

3. Making "waypoints" the ability to  point at something or marking current position that you could come back to for example enrty tunnel easier.

4. Space is dark ;] onboard lights to shine in a tunnel or darker side of a big ship would be nice.


After all those suggestions i would like to thank every person that made this game the way it is it may be still a little buggy and still a demo but the expirience of the game id fantastic. Thank You!!!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on April 20, 2007, 12:59:33 AM
Prez, to answer some of your questions: http://game-warden.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3860
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Raptorrat on April 20, 2007, 03:12:28 PM
How about a miner with one or two dorsal and ventral turrets. Noting fancy, just some Double KEW's.

It would spice the MP a bit up, and isn't that strange a variant for a deep space miner.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Daedalus on April 20, 2007, 10:13:38 PM
Combat/Normal Landings?

If you could make it so that you have a constant force pushing you downwards when you enter a flight pod. When you land, move over to a pad thing, and hit... Alt-L say, to enable Maglocks. You then get brought down [as Apollo was in the first episode] to the hanger bay. This would be amazing to see in missions, and also fun in FRED, then you could blow up the battlestar from the inside out :p
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Coffee on April 21, 2007, 05:53:52 PM
Better layout of the settings area, needs more contrast with organization, nothing stands out and therefore isnt really appealing.

control config screens need to be so as well. larger text, more contrast. as of right now looks like a huge jumble of words, squeezed too close. Needs to be gridded or else alternating background colors per line?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Antagonist on April 21, 2007, 09:48:55 PM
Hmm, this may have been mentioned before, considering the length of this thread and my unwillingness to read all of it ATM, but...whatever ;)

I remember that you could change the distances in which your main weapons converged in X-Wing Alliance, and I wondered if this feature could be incorporated into BTRL...especially when flying a raider against an Mk VII, you rarely get closer than 300 meters because of the pretty huge difference in top speeds, so finetuning the weapons to actually score a hit at that distance instead of just wasting ammo on your target would really sweeten things up :)

Convergence distances of 400, 200, 100 and possibly even 50 meters would probably be the most intuitive "mix"...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: takashi on April 21, 2007, 10:42:14 PM
three words. inertia in glide.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on April 21, 2007, 10:49:46 PM
http://game-warden.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3860
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: stonedzen on April 22, 2007, 07:03:15 PM
Got a new idea and would like to voice support for some already mentioned...

New idea: A Cylon SP campaign (or mini-campaign, considering the show primarily focuses on the colonials). It would be interesting being a Raider receiving orders from the Seven "skinjobs". It could involve hit and run tactics on the Colonial fleet, Reconnaissance, ambushing colonial patrols, etc. You could even tell the story of Scar with this campaign, with the player being Scar him/herself. This would even allow the two campaigns to cross ( the Birth of a Legend mission :)?)

Support for old: I think a mouse controlled cockpit viewing would really up the strategy level of the game, especially in MP, as you could look around and see where your enemy is without changing trajectory.

If player controlled combat landing can be added, retractable landing gear is a must.

I like the idea of view swaying related to afterburner and maneuvering. This would be awesome when the 3D cockpit is added, especially if mouse controlled viewing was added as well.

In the Hand of God mission, the player (not being Apollo anyway) could be assigned the task to escort Apollo and and fend off raiders while he proceeds to the tunnel. Player loses mission if Apollo doesnt make it, or if player dies (of course).

Hope these ideas are of use, or at least thought provoking. ;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: The Saint on April 22, 2007, 07:19:59 PM
Any chance of limited gun convergence? Not auto aim, but rather getting the guns to fire at the same distance and point. Ie. within a given distance window (ex. between 100m and 400m), the guns will actually attempt (doesn't have to do it perfectly) to converge their line of fire at a single (not necessarily pin-sized) point based on distance to target?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on April 22, 2007, 07:37:28 PM
IIRC all guns converge at 130 metres at the moment (check the "Deal with physics, gameplay and glide" topic for confirmation if you're interested). Ideally it would be cool to be able to specify a personal preference for convergence by using a command line flag, but for now, it is model-specific feature - ie. the gun convergence is built into the models themselves, and I have no idea if or not this will change some day.

In theory it's possible to alter the model (if you dare) by changing the gun convergence, but I don't really know how multiplayer code would handle that. Not well anyway, probably. Most likely changing the gun convergence data in models would result in multiplayer crashing when different players would use different models etc. but I'm not sure about it.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Josh_88 on April 22, 2007, 09:01:44 PM
yes, im pretty sure it was UT? who said the guns converge at 130m. so they do
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on April 23, 2007, 01:54:22 AM
Yea, it was me, but they actually converge at 120 IIRC. :) But the FoF makes it seem more random (I will be adjusting this in the patch).
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Callsign: Ghost on April 23, 2007, 02:53:40 AM
Ideas

How about the ability to eject or bail? (not just self destruct)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on April 23, 2007, 06:23:09 AM
We dealt with that one about two months ago on this very thread. :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Azure on April 23, 2007, 07:21:08 AM
if you change any data, in multiplayer will notice it and not save any games. Oh and noone will play with you ^^
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on April 23, 2007, 11:20:08 AM
...what? Where did that come from?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Azure on April 23, 2007, 01:45:28 PM
Quote from: The Saint;68809
Any chance of limited gun convergence? Not auto aim, but rather getting the guns to fire at the same distance and point. Ie. within a given distance window (ex. between 100m and 400m), the guns will actually attempt (doesn't have to do it perfectly) to converge their line of fire at a single (not necessarily pin-sized) point based on distance to target?


it was a reply to this. Didnt notice that i was only at the bottom of the page, not at the bottom of the topic ><
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: stonedzen on April 23, 2007, 01:50:34 PM
any thoughts on a cylon campaign? perhaps as Scar?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Turey on April 23, 2007, 03:06:56 PM
Quote from: stonedzen;68940
any thoughts on a cylon campaign? perhaps as Scar?


FRED's sitting right in front of you. Get to work.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: stonedzen on April 23, 2007, 05:07:56 PM
Quote from: Turey;68950
FRED's sitting right in front of you. Get to work.


Thats a major DUH! I was offering a suggestion for a feature to the dev team, that IS what this thread is about after all. Of course I could do it myself if they dont have the time or think its a bad idea.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on April 23, 2007, 05:42:16 PM
You do know that Turey is part of the dev team, right? :p
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: stonedzen on April 23, 2007, 06:27:56 PM
Quote from: Unknown Target;68964
You do know that Turey is part of the dev team, right? :p


Yeah, I know. But honestly, what kind of BtRL dev member has never seen BSG? If he had, he would understand why a Cylon campaign featuring Scar would be awesome! ;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on April 23, 2007, 07:19:42 PM
The only real reason I've stayed away from a Cylon campaign this long is I'm in two minds about how to do the briefing, debriefing and messages.

The HvC missions work fine as stand-alone missions but you couldn't do things that way for a proper campaign. :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Foo on April 23, 2007, 08:20:03 PM
I'm pretty sure MS Sam would do a great job for the voice overs of the cylons :P
Title: Black/Red outs (yes, again)
Post by: Callsign: Ghost on April 23, 2007, 08:29:45 PM
To beat a dead horse...
Black/Red outs

They would make no sense in space.  In order to black/red out, blood has to either rush into, or out of your head.  This happens when a pilot pulls negative G's (like when they bank sharply in atmosphere, experiencing centrifugal force).  But in a Viper, all the G's are positive (pushing you straight back into the seat), making Black outs pretty unlikely.

That, added to the fact that it would make pulling off intense combat maneuvers (like flipping end over end) extremely difficult (because you would have to do them blind.)  This would take away from BTRL's "arcady" physics style.

P.S.  I know my spelling is terrible, deal with it
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on April 23, 2007, 09:11:59 PM
http://game-warden.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3860

And not all the G's in a Viper are positive, and positive G's don't push you straight back into your seat (pretty sure of that last one).
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Juki on April 23, 2007, 09:55:13 PM
It would be useless but haven't you think about making signs of zodiak for players? It could has some meaning because zodiac regards to characters's religion, the twelve colonies have names from signs of zodiak. If zodiak not, maybe mark of colony origin would fit in the game for players.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on April 23, 2007, 10:12:10 PM
You can make them yourself, do a search and you can find out how (can't recall the exact dimensions atm).
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Talchar on April 24, 2007, 04:13:19 AM
I was just looking at some 3D solar pictures and thought - it would be cool to have a dogfight in a solar corona field.  I doubt that freespace could handle it, but it would make a interesting battlefield.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Water Viper on April 24, 2007, 10:08:07 AM
Hmmm Cylon orders..Something like this??
00011000 1110100111000 00011111010101 000101110011010100 110 010101010111 01110000100001111 0101 00010001 0100011100 1000 10001010 10000010001 10000111101 0101000 111000..
Understood? :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: stonedzen on April 24, 2007, 04:20:48 PM
I totally understand that the team wouldn't want to figure out a whole new approach for a cylon campaign, but in all fairness, we saw the skinjobs speaking orders (in english even!) to other toasters all the time, especially after baltar began living on the basestar. Remember when one of the D'Anna skinjobs ordered a Centurion to kill her? Therefore, orders, briefings, etc could be done essentially the same way as the human campaign. You would just need some new voice actors that can speak like a cylon, all cold and inquisitive. :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: M-562 on April 24, 2007, 05:14:16 PM
well there is this programm that can change your voice to sound like a centurion from the original series. "launch fighter control, by your command :D:D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Foo on April 24, 2007, 06:33:13 PM
hehe, for some reason I just had a horrible flash back of Star Wars Ep 1...stupid battle driods...."uh oh" :P
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: On_Your_Six on April 24, 2007, 06:56:11 PM
What I would love to see, particularly for MP matches would be a way for the lock of an attacking craft to become scambled when the prey passes through the dust cloud of the mini 'roids.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on April 24, 2007, 07:03:06 PM
Quote from: stonedzen;69086
I totally understand that the team wouldn't want to figure out a whole new approach for a cylon campaign, but in all fairness, we saw the skinjobs speaking orders (in english even!) to other toasters all the time, especially after baltar began living on the basestar. Remember when one of the D'Anna skinjobs ordered a Centurion to kill her? Therefore, orders, briefings, etc could be done essentially the same way as the human campaign. You would just need some new voice actors that can speak like a cylon, all cold and inquisitive. :D


Ah but the majority of the voice acting in-mission is between wingmen. Bit hard to do that with raiders :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Raptorrat on April 24, 2007, 10:34:30 PM
Quote from: karajorma;69109
Ah but the majority of the voice acting in-mission is between wingmen. Bit hard to do that with raiders :D


Nah, it isn't.

Just have the sound of a dial-up modem connecting, the scroll the text across the screen.

Hmm Might have to brush up my Binary a bit.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: stonedzen on April 24, 2007, 11:18:21 PM
Quote from: Raptorrat;69133
Nah, it isn't.

Just have the sound of a dial-up modem connecting, the scroll the text across the screen.

Hmm Might have to brush up my Binary a bit.

lol, i like this idea :lol: why not artoo (r2) effects while we're at it!

j/k of course... (humbles himself before the smoking yoda)
<---------
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: a50callovenote on April 25, 2007, 02:02:14 AM
Quote from: karajorma;69109
Ah but the majority of the voice acting in-mission is between wingmen. Bit hard to do that with raiders :D


actually that machine sound idea is a good one. the only thing is... tension in the heat of battle drops. and that could get annoying. "wing one form on my wing!"
"wing one: 10101010101*zizzzz*! (wing one collided with asteroid 3)
"frac-10101010101!!!":blah:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Hoot on April 25, 2007, 02:06:42 AM
Quote from: a50callovenote;69155
actually that machine sound idea is a good one. the only thing is... tension in the heat of battle drops. and that could get annoying. "wing one form on my wing!"
"wing one: 10101010101*zizzzz*! (wing one collided with asteroid 3)
"frac-10101010101!!!":blah:
I have trouble believe that toasters would say frack haha. The centurions and ships probably should speak without emotions.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Antagonist on April 25, 2007, 04:16:40 AM
Like Borg, for example...

*runs*

I mean, maybe with one voice, linked through their battle network...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on April 25, 2007, 07:29:00 AM
Quote from: Raptorrat;69133
Just have the sound of a dial-up modem connecting, the scroll the text across the screen.


You'd have problems reading anything complex in mission though.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: flatbeet on April 25, 2007, 01:09:05 PM
Hi I`m new here!!
First of all - the demo looks Great!! I`ve been looking for that-kind of game for a long time:D

But I`ve few question about a full release.
I`ve read that the storyline will follow the tv-show /don`t know how close to it/ - so I see that there will be a non-flying part of the game developed too, am I right? I mean the game won`t insist on just clicking from one briefing to another? There will be a developed characters, a simple deck life, am I right? Will I be able to follow other pilot`s progress? I mean things like scoreboard or something like that, beeing able to chat with them? I don`t want to convert this game into roleplaying game but something like good old Wing Commander :D I think that this will make us to take care of the other pilots for real and every single loss woun`t be just another death but something more for us, If you know what I mean...  :D

Also I suppose that the main menu window will change into something more friendly or realistic like deck view or other main place on Battlestar...

It looks like this game will be The Greates event for BSG fans..
And I would like to thank You 4 it!!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Fish on April 25, 2007, 01:24:23 PM
Freespace 2, which this conversion is based on, had no such features. This game isn't Freelancer, it isn't Wing Commander, it isn't many others. While I'm continually amazed at the level of immersion this team is providing, the game has limitations which must be acknowledged (while technically anything is possible with time, I'd rather that time be spent on making frakkin' awesome furball dogfights). But it's nice to have a wish list :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: jcdick1 on April 25, 2007, 04:25:32 PM
I've been reading through this thread and was thinking about the ability to shoot down missiles and bombs, even though the FS2 engine only supports shooting bombs.

Instead of using the "built-in" missile feature of the FS2 engine, would it be possible to make missiles essentially really small and fast AI-controlled craft?  This would allow them to be shot down ... maybe have them show up in the DRADIS as a different color than red ... yellow or purple or something...

Just a thought.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Dukeleto on April 25, 2007, 07:22:39 PM
Re: Hand of God mission, one way that occurs to me to make it playable would be a combination of 2 very tight operational constraints on the Vipers.
First, a tight time limit. I don't remember any reason for this from the show, but it shouldn't be too hard to spoof one, I guess just time till Raiders intercept.
Secondly, a very tight altitude limit, make the Vipers hug the deck, and throw lethal amounts of Flak at them if they go too high.
This combination should ensure an exciting high-speed run across the rocky surface - and finally through a tunnel - to get at the target.
Big Boom, and then rather than being anti-climactic, mopping up the confused, outnumbered Raiders is just the icing on the cake!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: stonedzen on April 26, 2007, 01:05:05 AM
Quote from: Dukeleto;69266
Re: Hand of God mission, one way that occurs to me to make it playable would be a combination of 2 very tight operational constraints on the Vipers.
First, a tight time limit. I don't remember any reason for this from the show, but it shouldn't be too hard to spoof one, I guess just time till Raiders intercept.
Secondly, a very tight altitude limit, make the Vipers hug the deck, and throw lethal amounts of Flak at them if they go too high.
This combination should ensure an exciting high-speed run across the rocky surface - and finally through a tunnel - to get at the target.
Big Boom, and then rather than being anti-climactic, mopping up the confused, outnumbered Raiders is just the icing on the cake!


This seems like a good idea to me, but I still must ask (as I have before and received no answer), didnt Apollo fly that mission (through the tunnel) alone? If so, then how is the game going to explain why the player is flying this mission instead?

I think the Hand of God mission should involve escorting and providing cover for Apollo as he approaches his run. Loads of Raiders could be trying to reach him to shoot him down, and if apollo dies, you lose the mission. I know this means no tunnel flying for the player (which will disappoint some people), but it would make more sense to the show canon. Plus, there is always more missions left to involve the player flying through an asteroid tunnel, maybe even being chased by raiders, which apollo was not in Hand of God.

I'm a canon freak, so these are just my two cents.:)
Title: Hand of God
Post by: Callsign: Ghost on April 26, 2007, 03:16:11 AM
I think the simplest way to address all problems with HoG is to just let the player play as Apallo for one mission.  That way, canon is not frakked with, and the playeer still gets to hotdog in tunnels.

Frak Black/Red outs!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Fish on April 26, 2007, 06:24:54 AM
I may have been imagining things, but in the weapons loadout screen of one of the 3rd -party missions posted here, I saw 'Cylon fighter bomb' (or similar) as separate to the standard Cylon fighter missile. Does this mean that there is already implemented a type of Cylon ordnance that can be shot down?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: mikewallbank9 on April 26, 2007, 06:40:21 AM
pretty sure the bombs are in there, cylon nukes too!!!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Raptorrat on April 26, 2007, 10:34:22 AM
Quote from: Callsign: Ghost;69318
I think the simplest way to address all problems with HoG is to just let the player play as Apallo for one mission.  That way, canon is not frakked with, and the playeer still gets to hotdog in tunnels.


Might as well make it a "Simulated training mission" To improve the maneuvering excellence of the average Viper-pilot.

Just as rogue squadron had to do the "Warsprite" scenario. (One of the X-wing books. The first one, IIRC)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Flaser on April 26, 2007, 11:35:15 AM
On shootable missiles:

On RPG elements:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: stonedzen on April 26, 2007, 02:37:13 PM
Quote from: Callsign: Ghost;69318
I think the simplest way to address all problems with HoG is to just let the player play as Apallo for one mission.  That way, canon is not frakked with, and the playeer still gets to hotdog in tunnels.

Frak Black/Red outs!


I would rather have a consistent storyline than have one tangent mission where all of the sudden you play apollo to fly 30 seconds down a tunnel with no resistance (watch Hand of God, you'll see what I mean!). Instead, as I said before, another mission not seen in the shows could involve an intense dogfight where you must escape an overwhelming force of raiders by hauling ass through an asteroid tunnel. This way we could have a tunnel run in the game, and have it be much more intense than a hand of god mission would be.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: mikewallbank9 on April 26, 2007, 06:32:59 PM
I actually think flying thorugh that tunnel would be boring, as there wasn't any raiders in it. I think that protecting Apollo would make a great mission.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on April 26, 2007, 06:35:40 PM
Quote from: Fish;69329
I may have been imagining things, but in the weapons loadout screen of one of the 3rd -party missions posted here, I saw 'Cylon fighter bomb' (or similar) as separate to the standard Cylon fighter missile. Does this mean that there is already implemented a type of Cylon ordnance that can be shot down?


Yep. It's already in. As is the Cylon nuke.

You can see the former in BoaL if you're being naughty actually. Optic carry bombs. Of course most people haven't triggered Optic's arrival in that mission. :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: meleardil on April 26, 2007, 07:06:32 PM
Quote from: mikewallbank9;69380
I actually think flying thorugh that tunnel would be boring, as there wasn't any raiders in it. I think that protecting Apollo would make a great mission.
Say it's boring when you actually faced my refinery... *quiet mocking laugh*
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Tikey on April 26, 2007, 07:28:58 PM
Quote from: meleardil;69385
Say it's boring when you actually faced my refinery... *quiet mocking laugh*


Are Loompa loompas in there?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Dodger on April 26, 2007, 08:00:09 PM
nah, singing Grunka Lunkas ....
(http://www.gotfuturama.com/Multimedia/FrameGrabs/1ACV13/Grabs/pic00315.jpg) (http://www.gotfuturama.com/Multimedia/EpisodeSounds/1ACV13/06.mp3)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: mikewallbank9 on April 26, 2007, 08:23:49 PM
Quote from: meleardil;69385
Say it's boring when you actually faced my refinery... *quiet mocking laugh*


now I'm intrigued, can't wait to see the finished product!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Daedalus on April 26, 2007, 09:25:58 PM
If any of you have ever played Star Trek: Bridge Commander, you'll know what I'm talking about. I don't know if the FS engine allows it, but could you make the damage so that if you fire a pattern at the right part of a ship, a bit of it will fly off? Like of you shoot one side of a raider enough an arm will fly off and go twirling behind you, the raider would then veer to the left/right, like a car with a puncture. This could also apply to capital ships too... *Thinks to self... never did much like Galactica's landing pods...:p*
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Raptorrat on April 26, 2007, 09:59:19 PM
A raider with it's wings clipped will explode and die. (Atleast I would, save me the discomfort of waiting in space for a pick-up which may never happen, or a long painfull and lonely death. You'll just respawn in a nice warm fighterbay.) They're just like zero's in that respect.

It would make more sense for the cap ships, but that would also depend on wether combat landings will be implemented. (Little use in blowing of landing-pod when they aren't used. might aswell go for catastrofic hull-failure right off the bat.)

Now, the vipers are a different story, It's possible to blow off a wing, but more likely you'll destroy the ship. Also, a human pilot would most likely punch out in such a situation.
-------------------------------------------------

Edit: Just thinking about Scar, "Why didn't he/she/it self destruct? it puts a hole in you're theorie."
       Not really, He was "Brained" all his systems were still funtional, but he had no control over them anymore. If he could have, he
       would have.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Foo on April 26, 2007, 11:36:33 PM
Quote from: Daedalus;69397
If any of you have ever played Star Trek: Bridge Commander, you'll know what I'm talking about. I don't know if the FS engine allows it, but could you make the damage so that if you fire a pattern at the right part of a ship, a bit of it will fly off? Like of you shoot one side of a raider enough an arm will fly off and go twirling behind you, the raider would then veer to the left/right, like a car with a puncture. This could also apply to capital ships too... *Thinks to self... never did much like Galactica's landing pods...:p*


IF a wing were to be clipped it would so much as veer off to that side but instead it would send it into a mad flat spin. It would make it kind of interesting if that happend to a Viper when your flying though.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: takashi on April 27, 2007, 12:19:23 AM
but but with slide thrusters, and the lack of air in space, you could pull right out of it.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Foo on April 27, 2007, 01:32:27 AM
I doubt the thrusters on the nose would have enough power to counter a single engine running at full power. you'd have shut the engine down then counter the spin.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Draco429 on April 27, 2007, 02:09:00 AM
Quote from: karajorma;69383
Yep. It's already in. As is the Cylon nuke.

You can see the former in BoaL if you're being naughty actually. Optic carry bombs. Of course most people haven't triggered Optic's arrival in that mission. :)


So why, when I play with the missions I've quickly FREDded to see said nuke in action is there no spectacular explosion? What am I doing wrong?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Stever on April 27, 2007, 04:12:52 AM
Quote from: Daedalus;69397
If any of you have ever played Star Trek: Bridge Commander, you'll know what I'm talking about. I don't know if the FS engine allows it, but could you make the damage so that if you fire a pattern at the right part of a ship, a bit of it will fly off? Like of you shoot one side of a raider enough an arm will fly off and go twirling behind you, the raider would then veer to the left/right, like a car with a puncture. This could also apply to capital ships too... *Thinks to self... never did much like Galactica's landing pods...:p*


Dang it!  Now you just made me want to load up Bridge Commander and have at it.  And I was trying to focus my efforts on not sucking at BrRL!  GRRRR!  :naughty:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Stever on April 27, 2007, 04:17:46 AM
Quote from: Foo;69411
IF a wing were to be clipped it would so much as veer off to that side but instead it would send it into a mad flat spin. It would make it kind of interesting if that happend to a Viper when your flying though.

Yeah, but in space, if you lost a wing, you wouldn't spin so much just because you lost the wing (like losing a wing on an F16), but because of whatever explosive forces occurred while losing the wing.  So, depending on the explosive action, you'd spin, roll, or be pushed in whatever direction the explosion takes you.  Right?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on April 27, 2007, 04:27:34 AM
Even a little more complex than that.  You will get an impulse away from the explosion, but you will also get a impulse in an independent direction from the impact prior to the explosion.  That impulse will depend on the rounds arrival angle.  Could cancel out, could mutually add up.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on April 27, 2007, 07:32:57 AM
Quote from: Draco429;69431
So why, when I play with the missions I've quickly FREDded to see said nuke in action is there no spectacular explosion? What am I doing wrong?


I've never actually used the nuke myself. Axem has though. He's reported it works.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Foo on April 28, 2007, 01:11:06 AM
Quote from: Stever;69442
Yeah, but in space, if you lost a wing, you wouldn't spin so much just because you lost the wing (like losing a wing on an F16), but because of whatever explosive forces occurred while losing the wing.  So, depending on the explosive action, you'd spin, roll, or be pushed in whatever direction the explosion takes you.  Right?


I wasn't so much as thinking about the conussion from the missle or anything, but the fact that having your wing torn off will most likey knock out the closest engine. With one knocked out, there is nothing to balance the power of the other engine....which will cause a flat spin. Shutting down the other engine won't stop the spin beacause of inertia. you've have to pull out of it with the nose thrusters...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Rapier on April 28, 2007, 01:57:46 AM
I would like to have the maneuvering thrusters increase their effect in relation overall speed.  At slow speeds, you can really use them to keep on target, but at higher speeds, they have almost no effect.


EDIT:

Quote from: Foo;69428
I doubt the thrusters on the nose would have enough power to counter a single engine running at full power. you'd have shut the engine down then counter the spin.

Didn't see this.  Still would like the idea.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Foo on April 28, 2007, 02:20:37 AM
Quote from: Rapier;69616
I would like to have the maneuvering thrusters increase their effect in relation overall speed.  At slow speeds, you can really use them to keep on target, but at higher speeds, they have almost no effect.


EDIT:



Didn't see this.  Still would like the idea.


Oh so would I, it would definately be cool to have your ship spinning out of controll. It would definately get a me lil paniced at first (I tend to really get into my games ;) )
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on April 28, 2007, 02:21:14 AM
Quote from: Rapier;69616
I would like to have the maneuvering thrusters increase their effect in relation overall speed.  At slow speeds, you can really use them to keep on target, but at higher speeds, they have almost no effect.


EDIT:



Didn't see this.  Still would like the idea.

The engines are close enough to centerline the torque on the whole bird wouldn't be that bad.  Probably just force you to counteract a descending tightening turn until you pull back on the throttle for that motor a bit and set in some thruster trim to counteract.  Should be a non-spin evolution.  

F-14s have motors out quite away from centerline so a spin is possible at high power settings, but an F-15 doesn't spin since its motors are right there tucked against centerline.  just a bit of stick input to counteract then trim out the forces.

Makes you a bit of a sitting duck though since you loose A LOT of stick command authority away from the problem side, not to mention the speed.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Rapier on April 28, 2007, 02:56:23 AM
Quote from: Enki;69623
Makes you a bit of a sitting duck though since you loose A LOT of stick command authority away from the problem side, not to mention the speed.

That's why I wanted to be able to use them at speed.

I didn't mean to lean on them, just a burst to get your target back in line, or even a burst to get your crosshairs leading a little more.


Havent' there been scenes on the show when they are really cooking and use thrusters for quick jinks and to avoid collisions?



I would also like to see "dummy missiles" that have no warhead and only a tracking system.  You could definately get people off your case by switching to dummy missles (which you could carry up to 24) locking on and firing.  They could never actually do any damage, but could be made very small and light so you could carry a bunch and would be one hell of a distraction.  When I'm trying to shoot someone down and I have a missle launched at me, half of flying goes semi definsive, always ready to tap the countermeasures button.  Plus, you get people to run out of countermeasures quickly, and then real missles can come in.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Tedward01 on April 28, 2007, 08:43:11 PM
after playing the demo i wold like the realese ships to be a lfair bui mor fragile, IE it takes at least 20 hits to kill where as in the show the fighters take serious damage with only 2-3 hits, i would like to see health on fighter to be about 7 hits- kill
Title: I agree
Post by: gbtf67 on April 29, 2007, 12:47:47 PM
Quote from: Tedward01;69748
after playing the demo i wold like the realese ships to be a lfair bui mor fragile, IE it takes at least 20 hits to kill where as in the show the fighters take serious damage with only 2-3 hits, i would like to see health on fighter to be about 7 hits- kill


Raiders need to be easier to kill, like 5 hits kill...like in the show

about capital ships explosions, please dont make them like in freespace2, lasting about 1 sec, when a big ship explodes it needs to last like 5-10 secs, look at explosions from NEXSUS:TJI for some truly amazing explosions:biggrin1:
another thing in the demo that stood out was the sound of hitting the enemy, it sounded really out of place and much to strong comapred to the rest of the game's audio...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on April 29, 2007, 01:45:12 PM
If we make the raiders easier to kill we have to make YOU easier to kill too.

One hit kill games sound like fun until you're the one getting one hit killed in multi. At that point the same person who asked for the feature signs off complaining of aimbots or how the game sucks. :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: kilo_foxtrot on April 29, 2007, 07:01:23 PM
Quote from: gbtf67;69826
about capital ships explosions, please dont make them like in freespace2, lasting about 1 sec, when a big ship explodes it needs to last like 5-10 secs, look at explosions from NEXSUS:TJI for some truly amazing explosions:biggrin1:


I thought that the miner explosion in-game (really, the only cap ship we've got right now) was pretty sweet because it lasts for a little while--well over one second--and does that little "BLAST" kick if you're too close.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Jonat on April 29, 2007, 07:36:24 PM
Will there be an opening cutscene of "BSG-like ingame footage", perhaps remakes of the series in the game ?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Turey on April 29, 2007, 08:35:41 PM
Quote from: Jonat;69894
Will there be an opening cutscene of "BSG-like ingame footage", perhaps remakes of the series in the game ?


Most likely. Don't quote me on this.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on April 30, 2007, 11:27:26 AM
Quote from: Jonat;69894
Will there be an opening cutscene of "BSG-like ingame footage", perhaps remakes of the series in the game ?


Depends on whether we can keep Lt Cannonfodder interested in the idea for long enough to make us an intro and also if we can keep him from deleting it 2-3 months later when he's decided it's not good enough for him. :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Antagonist on April 30, 2007, 05:24:08 PM
Would it be possible to have glide work for as long you hold the assigned button, returning to normal flight control only once you release it?

I think that setup would be more intuitive than having a button for switching between those two...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on April 30, 2007, 06:46:55 PM
In the full game, yes. In the demo, no.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Antagonist on April 30, 2007, 06:53:39 PM
Good enough for me, thanks for the quick reply!

Now I'm really dying to play the full version ;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: gbtf67 on April 30, 2007, 09:39:02 PM
Quote from: karajorma;69833
If we make the raiders easier to kill we have to make YOU easier to kill too.

One hit kill games sound like fun until you're the one getting one hit killed in multi. At that point the same person who asked for the feature signs off complaining of aimbots or how the game sucks. :D


well... so make them and you easier to kill,dosn't have to be 1 hit kill,but right now it takes like 80 hits to die...
some things on effects that I noticed:
I was checking the explosion on the mining ship, can you do a slowed down version of the explosion gif? can you add particles? do you have more types of explosion? can you leave a scorched hull instead of nothing remaining after?
can a cylon raider explode at random straight when its life reached 0 without him drifting for about 2 secs?
can you move the astroides smoke explosion closer to the player so we wont be able to see the astroide pop out and 2 smaller ones replacing him?
do you plan on changing the shockwaves of capital ships explosion? FS2 has a pretty nice 3D shockwave replacement that maybe you can include in this game for cap ships, also a blinding flash can be nice, like the one when a nuke hits?
anyway sorry for the long post, hope you like my ideas :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: badaa on April 30, 2007, 09:47:36 PM
Quote from: Antagonist;70031
Would it be possible to have glide work for as long you hold the assigned button, returning to normal flight control only once you release it?


Quote from: karajorma;70048
In the full game, yes. In the demo, no.


will u be able to switch between the to?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: takashi on April 30, 2007, 09:51:38 PM
swichting between the full game/demo? yes.

glide/no glide: as answered by previous posts, yes.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on May 01, 2007, 09:41:20 AM
Quote from: badaa;70081
will u be able to switch between the to?

We'll be keeping the current toggle system and adding a held down key too. If we were only going to replace one with the other we could do that now.

Quote from: gbtf67;70080
well... so make them and you easier to kill,dosn't have to be 1 hit kill,but right now it takes like 80 hits to die...


The team tends to feel it would make the game far too hard. It's one of those times that a game has to be different from the show it's based on in order to be playable.

As for the effects stuff, I'll leave that for a team member more familiar with that side of things to answer :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: M-562 on May 03, 2007, 04:43:57 PM
bit of a bump I know but, i dont know if this has been implemented or asked allready but Y think it would be cool when you shoot a raiders engines one of em can stall and send the ship spinning perhaps into an asteroid. Also when that happens I think it'd be cool if the pilot would be able to keep the craft flying by some aggresive maneuvres.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: SGT_R22eR on May 03, 2007, 11:26:59 PM
like this:

when subsystem engine integrity=0
-glide=true
and thruster=true

I don't know if this can be implemented, but sure is worth a try imho
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Foo on May 04, 2007, 01:22:42 AM
Quote from: karajorma;69833
If we make the raiders easier to kill we have to make YOU easier to kill too.

One hit kill games sound like fun until you're the one getting one hit killed in multi. At that point the same person who asked for the feature signs off complaining of aimbots or how the game sucks. :D



hmm, now that would definatly make a nice option for multi player, although it would have to be recored that the game was played that way.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on May 04, 2007, 01:25:07 AM
Even modern day jets can take several cannon rounds. I'd hate to have a one-hit kill game.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on May 04, 2007, 03:29:20 AM
Quote from: SGT_R22eR;70524
like this:

when subsystem engine integrity=0
-glide=true
and thruster=true

I don't know if this can be implemented, but sure is worth a try imho


To do something like that would likely require a full reworking of the damage model.  Otherwise you get a patchwork of partially uncomplimentary things that might happen to screw you thoroughly "a soft kill", or even more thoroughly still "a soft and slow transition to hard kill".  

While the ideas seem cool, neither partial-kill option is any fun for the player stuck in the cockpit that isn't dead enough to force a re-spawn, but too dead to actually play.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Foo on May 04, 2007, 03:47:53 AM
Quote from: Unknown Target;70540
Even modern day jets can take several cannon rounds. I'd hate to have a one-hit kill game.



hehe, XvT is often a one shot, one kill game. It takes some adjusting to but once you do it makes things extremly intense. :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on May 04, 2007, 03:48:17 AM
Quote from: Unknown Target;70540
Even modern day jets can take several cannon rounds. I'd hate to have a one-hit kill game.

Sometimes, it really depends if it is ball or a HE cannon round.  HE Cannon rounds are explosive and designed for one or two round kills.  Ball ammo can take quite a few until you either do enough damage or hit something critical.  

Watching the show I tend to think ball ammo is being shot.  Otherwise Scar and Starbuck's raider would have suffered catastrophic damage rather than still being serviceable.  That favors more hits to kill.  

One thing that may help without changing too much is adjusting the convergence a bit farther out, say 250-300m.  It ups the chance for more multiple hits on pretty good shots, favoring skill. But prevents one shot "lucky hit" deaths.  It also enables more accurate deflection shooting, which is near worthless right now since the Viper's scatter is wider than a Raider at about 400m, and add jitter on top of that.  Even WWII fighter convergence was closer to 200m and their dogfight speeds were about half what BSG speeds are, with space maneuverability that has no comparison.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Tikey on May 04, 2007, 04:50:53 AM
Quote from: Unknown Target;70540
Even modern day jets can take several cannon rounds. I'd hate to have a one-hit kill game.


InstaGib mode :nervous:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on May 04, 2007, 09:07:10 AM
Quote from: Foo;70539
hmm, now that would definatly make a nice option for multi player, although it would have to be recored that the game was played that way.


I could make a mission like that in a couple of minutes.

All you have to do is give the ships special hitpoints in FRED.

So if any FREDders want to make a mission like that, now they know how. :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Gibbons on May 04, 2007, 04:33:44 PM
Dunno if this has been said yet but the ability to flip end to end with one button would be cool.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on May 04, 2007, 04:40:31 PM
Why? You can do that with your joystick, you don't need a special button.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: takashi on May 04, 2007, 04:50:32 PM
but it would be cool :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Gibbons on May 04, 2007, 05:00:52 PM
so say we all. the joystick is more a looping turn.

anyway just thought it would be cool, like when someone is on your 6 to instantly flip and spray em with your guns before boosting over them :D
 
...just a thought anyway :)

keep up the good work
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Gibbons on May 04, 2007, 05:02:36 PM
oh and a lobby for online would be useful, cos atm i feel like im the only person on there.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Gibbons on May 04, 2007, 05:20:46 PM
oh and one more lol. logitech g15 support would be sweet - showing kills ammo, health etc on the display. thats definitly all now!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: The Legacy on May 04, 2007, 06:38:53 PM
Gibbons - There IS a lobby; but I agree that a player list should be included. It would make it look less...empty. :)

As for features...I'd like to see new multiplayer code that, instead of sending computers the current position of ships, that it instead has code that relays the power, control, and other movements from the other player(s). IL-2 Sturmovik uses this, and works incredibly well, even up to 64 players. It should eliminate the host advantage. :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on May 04, 2007, 06:45:06 PM
Quote

anyway just thought it would be cool, like when someone is on your 6 to instantly flip and spray em with your guns before boosting over them

That's what Glide is for.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: StarSlayer on May 04, 2007, 07:24:47 PM
1 button insta "Immelman Turns, Pugachev's Cobra ect" kind of rewards people for not learning how to fly :P  Sure its fun in some console flyers, but that's because the flight physics are so dumbed down you couldn't pull off proper dogfighting maneuvers if you tried.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Gibbons on May 04, 2007, 07:41:33 PM
fair enough, just making a suggestion thats all.
and yes I know theres a lobby obviously, but I meant player list and chat console :nod:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Foo on May 04, 2007, 07:50:50 PM
Quote from: StarSlayer;70644
1 button insta "Immelman Turns, Pugachev's Cobra ect" kind of rewards people for not learning how to fly :P  Sure its fun in some console flyers, but that's because the flight physics are so dumbed down you couldn't pull off proper dogfighting maneuvers if you tried.


It kinda defeats the purpose of dogifighting when all you have to do is push a button and it does it on it's own....
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on May 04, 2007, 10:40:46 PM
Quote from: Gibbons;70646
fair enough, just making a suggestion thats all.


No problem. Just don't take it personally if someone explains why they don't like your suggestion. :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: a50callovenote on May 05, 2007, 02:16:08 AM
I wish there was a way to make the mouse more accurate at close ranges. yes i know this was covered, but i can dream cant i?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Water Viper on May 06, 2007, 09:57:38 AM
Hmmm one button flip manouvers..Now where the hell is the skill in that..Bloody Nuggets..
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: takashi on May 06, 2007, 05:07:42 PM
ever played starfox? theres a one-button manouver for everything.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Foo on May 06, 2007, 08:06:38 PM
hehe, yeah..it was the one thing I hated about the game ;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: WMCoolmon on May 07, 2007, 02:27:33 AM
Quote from: takashi;70919
ever played starfox? theres a one-button manouver for everything.


Also, you couldn't actually do most of the maneuvers except for the combo keys. (EG you can't spin around really fast to do a barrel roll instead of pressing the button.)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Fabianx on May 07, 2007, 05:12:24 PM
Quote from: karajorma;56784

Last time we did this someone mentioned having ships that were stealthed until you got within a certain range of them. This is actually quite hard to do in the FS2_Open engine as if you turn stealth on no one can see that ship regardless of the distance and if you turn it off everyone can. However if we have new coders joining us and looking for something to add that's something we wouldn't mind having. :)


I looked at the Code.

Actually it seems there is something _like_ that already present.

 * Revision 2.4  2003/01/03 21:58:07  Goober5000
 * Fixed some minor bugs, and added a primitive-sensors flag, where if a ship
 * has primitive sensors it can't target anything and objects don't appear
 * on radar if they're outside a certain range.  This range can be modified
 * via the sexp primitive-sensors-set-range.
 * --Goober5000

So if I see this correctly there is already a primitive-sensors based on distance.

So, a quick hack using primitive sensor range takes two lines (against 3.6.9):

Code: [Select]

--- ship/awacs.cpp.old  2007-05-07 18:53:09.000000000 +0200
+++ ship/awacs.cpp      2007-05-07 18:55:27.000000000 +0200
@@ -476,9 +476,10 @@
                        return FULLY_TARGETABLE;
                }
                // otherwise its completely hidden
+              // FF: Unless distance is smaller than the primitive sensor range
                else
                {
-                       return UNTARGETABLE;
+                       return ((distance < viewer->primitive_sensor_range) ? MARGINALLY_TARGETABLE : UNTARGETABLE);
                }
        }
        // all other ships


Of course that hack completely breaks the normal stealth fighters, so there would be a need to add two new flags - whatever they are called.

can_see_stealth, can_see_stealth_distance? or something like that.

But its really not difficult to do.

It might be that MARGINALLY_TARGETABLE should be FULLY_TARGETABLE as well, but that depends on what you want. I don't know enough of the engine to decide that :-).

cu

Fabian
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Adalla on May 07, 2007, 11:22:22 PM
Please don't forget to have coop missions with capital ships and perhaps even some plotlines.

There is nothing more fun that experiencing cooperative combat in a campaign. It's the closest thing to being in the actual show.

Of course, vs missions with cap ships is also great.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on May 08, 2007, 08:04:33 AM
Quote from: Fabianx;71055
So, a quick hack using primitive sensor range takes two lines


Hmmmm. You may be onto something here. I've not had a look at the primitive sensors code much but I could see it solving the issue for player ships.

The big problem though (and also the issue that made me think it's hard) is the AI. If the AI go through the same function to determine whether it can see an enemy ship then a solution along the lines you're suggesting would work.

If it uses a different method things get more complicated. Now I vaguely remember that the AI does use awacs_get_level() (Which I assume is what you're fiddling with here)  on occasion.


Anyway, if you're already looking at the code does that mean you're interested in coding for us? :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Fabianx on May 08, 2007, 11:47:40 AM
Quote from: karajorma;71140
Hmmmm. You may be onto something here. I've not had a look at the primitive sensors code much but I could see it solving the issue for player ships.

The big problem though (and also the issue that made me think it's hard) is the AI. If the AI go through the same function to determine whether it can see an enemy ship then a solution along the lines you're suggesting would work.

If it uses a different method things get more complicated. Now I vaguely remember that the AI does use awacs_get_level() (Which I assume is what you're fiddling with here)  on occasion.


Anyway, if you're already looking at the code does that mean you're interested in coding for us? :D


Possibly, I might be interested, but time permits are always a problem as you know ...

If they are short small tasks: yes.

AI code uses some custom function for stealth ships, but also here its only one or two line of code.

However AI has a huge advantage regarding stealth ships ...

In ai_is_stealth_visible neither awacs_get_level nor nebula code is used (like for player) but just based on distance * skill level and below 100 its always visible ...

Should we use the same for player to have equality again? ;-)

cu

Fabian
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: David cgc on May 09, 2007, 04:03:22 AM
Pretty minor thing, but it'd be cool if the target-selecting sound effect was changed to the double-beep of a new DRADIS contact. It'd be especially cool if you have auto-target on, so it actually ends up being a new DRADIS contact sound.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: SGT_R22eR on May 09, 2007, 09:24:46 AM
Auto-Target can be enabled by press Alt-H.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on May 09, 2007, 08:59:13 PM
Quote from: Fabianx;71156
Possibly, I might be interested, but time permits are always a problem as you know ...

If they are short small tasks: yes.


We have both small and big tasks that need doing. :) And we can always use bug fixers. :)

Quote
AI code uses some custom function for stealth ships, but also here its only one or two line of code.

However AI has a huge advantage regarding stealth ships ...

In ai_is_stealth_visible neither awacs_get_level nor nebula code is used (like for player) but just based on distance * skill level and below 100 its always visible ...

Should we use the same for player to have equality again? ;-)


Can't even if we wanted to. It would screw over FS2 and one of the big requirements of the code is that we remain FS2 compatible. Of course we could make it optional if that was easy enough to do.

To be honest I'd like to overhaul the whole stealth system anyway. The one we have at the moment is pretty clumsy. Stealth is either on or off. There's no simple way of saying that Ship A has good sensors and can see stealth ships while Ship B can sorta see them and Ship C can't see them at all.

It would be nice to have something like that in place before we started making any missions involving raptors or the Stealthstar as we could then make stealth a factor in the mission without having to make it the only factor in the mission (like it was in the stealth mission in FS1 and FS2).

It would almost certainly require AI changes so that you could have Raiders who knew that a stealth ship was in the area and went to search mode as soon as they could no longer detect it directly.

Of course that most certainly isn't a small task so I'd have to find someone willing to take it on too. :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Fabianx on May 10, 2007, 01:31:07 AM
>We have both small and big tasks that need doing. :) And we can always use bug fixers. :)

Lets see. Its quite easy. If you get the code for a feature (after plan is complete) within 2 days I'm motivated and have done something, if not search for someone else ;-).

>To be honest I'd like to overhaul the whole stealth system anyway.

>The one we have at the moment is pretty clumsy.
>Stealth is either on or off.

>There's no simple way of saying that Ship A has good sensors and
>can see stealth ships while Ship B can sorta see them and Ship C
>can't see them at all.

Like my draft proposed SEXPs / SHIP status vars: can_see_stealth (=> FULLY_TARGETABLE), can_partially_see_stealth (=> PARTIALLY_TARGETABLE)

can_see_stealth_distance (optional, if set >0 and distance > cssd => UNTARGETABLE)

Plus some AI changes up until now it is a fairly easy task.

>It would be nice to have something like that in place before we
>started making any missions involving raptors or the Stealthstar as
>we could then make stealth a factor in the mission without having to
>make it the only factor in the mission (like it was in the stealth
>mission in FS1 and FS2).

Ah, I see. Uhm, I think I certainly need to watch more BSG shows. I haven't encountered or can't remember stealth in BSG ...

How does it work? Can a raptor detect it and then all can see it via forwarding of sensors like an AWACS or can fighters still just use the first eye (human eye) ... ?

>It would almost certainly require AI changes so that you could have
>Raiders who knew that a stealth ship was in the area and went to
>search mode as soon as they could no longer detect it directly.

There is that kind of code already in there for the AI, because AI has no chance to fire on a ship it can't see. (there is a mode stealth-search-ship or somehow called. Don't have access to Source atm.)

( And that this works, is proven in Silent Threat, where the stealth Loki fighters appear together with other fighters IIRC )

So it first searches for the ships, then when it comes near enough (< 100 or difficulty * some var) it can fully target them. (this way the human "eye sight" is emulated).

Btw. from which CVS tag did you build the BTRL Demo? I tried to compile and use 3.6.9 and suddenly my PC was too slow (but that could also have been the old kernel I sometimes still use). Is it supposed to work with stock 3.6.9 tag?

Anyway, yes I am interested in coding that feature, so lets discuss more what it needs to do. :-)

cu

Fabian
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Raptorrat on May 10, 2007, 08:52:02 AM
In respect to the Stealth, and Dradis.

Would you be limiting the effective range of Dradis? As it is now, the game has 3 settings: 2Km, 10Km(IIRC) and Infinite.

Now I can't vouch for the Dradis in the Cap-ships, But I don't think Vipers have such a range. 2Km, makes sense, 10Km does aswell.

One of the problems I would see is that people can't find their targets, if they are too far away. in missions that could be fixed by using waypoints, and a scripted message from CiC. ("Red flight, be advised, Multiple Raiders inbound, sending intercept-heading.")

MP will be trickier though.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on May 10, 2007, 05:20:37 PM
@Fabianx I don't know if you spotted it but I gave you access to the prospective team members forum. I don't mind continuing the discussion here though :)

As for the stealth overhaul I'm talking about something a little more complex than what I can see in your posts (although maybe you're thinking along the same lines)

What I'd like to do is alter ships.tbl with a new entries for $Stealth Factor and $Stealth Detection Factor.

Once you do that you can have situations where the Raptor is better at detecting stealth ships than the Vipers are as well as situations where it is just better at hiding.

Stealth factor should also be affected by difficulty level of the game and the AI level (perhaps a new factor there or a simple multiplier).

If the actual Stealth parse flag has been used Stealth Factor should be bypassed completely (or simply set to 100%. Whichever makes more sense for the code).

Quote
Ah, I see. Uhm, I think I certainly need to watch more BSG shows. I haven't encountered or can't remember stealth in BSG ...

Seen Season 2? The Blackbird is definitely a stealth ship and we could deal with it using the standard FS2 stealth options pretty easily. However the show is also full of cases where Raptors have tried to stay undetectable by not moving much, staying in the shadows of asteroids etc.

Although that could be handled by the standard FS2 system it would be clumsy in comparison with simply letting the code handle it. :)

Now the problem with BSG stealth is we don't really know how good it is. That's one reason why it's a good idea to make a generalised system like I'm suggesting. Then if more data becomes available in season 4 we can tweak things. (It also means that the feature is more useful to people using it with other FS2 mods and if we play nice when adding our features that encourages them to do the same :) )

Quote
There is that kind of code already in there for the AI, because AI has no chance to fire on a ship it can't see. (there is a mode stealth-search-ship or somehow called. Don't have access to Source atm.)

Judging from FS2 the AI is rather stupid when it comes to AIs and forget that they exist as soon as they can no longer see them. I'd like to see that AI actually searching for the ship they got a sniff of earlier. That might be a job for an AI coder though. :)

Quote
Btw. from which CVS tag did you build the BTRL Demo? I tried to compile and use 3.6.9 and suddenly my PC was too slow (but that could also have been the old kernel I sometimes still use). Is it supposed to work with stock 3.6.9 tag?

Kinda an interesting story there. Basically BtRL is running on 3.6.9 + extra bug fixes. The idea was to run on 3.6.9 Official but we managed to get the demo ready only about 3 months after that and in the intervening time I've fixed a few quite important bugs (for our missions at least).

I didn't want to release using what would be the equivalent of a daily build by simply compiling the current 3.6.9 branch as without proper testing that was almost certainly going to cause stability problems. So what ended up happening was that we released with 3.6.9 Official + some of the bug fixes now in CVS that were critical for us.

For coders who join us that gives you three choices.

1) Download the windows code from here (http://www.freespacefaq.com/Downloads/Misc/fs2_open_3.6.9-BtRL_Edition.7z) (I have a copy of the Linux source somewhere)

2) Use 3.6.9 CVS from January 12 (3.6.9 official) and just don't play the Training mission or BoaL on it (both will crash complaining about a missing SEXP)

3) Use current 3.6.9 CVS and hope no one has introduced a show stopping bug.


3 is probably the best choice but the other two should work if you can't get that up and running.


Quote from: Raptorrat;71374
One of the problems I would see is that people can't find their targets, if they are too far away. in missions that could be fixed by using waypoints, and a scripted message from CiC. ("Red flight, be advised, Multiple Raiders inbound, sending intercept-heading.")

Would that it were that simple.

Anyone who has taken a good look at BoaL in FRED will have noticed the presence of a variable called CONST-DRADISMaxRange doing all kinds of things throughout the mission. They may have also noticed that it's not actually doing anything much which is actually DRADIS related.

That's cause the main function of the code was to make any ship which was more than the distance specified in CONST-DRADISMaxRange undetectable. In earlier version of the mission I actually had all the SEXPs that did that set up and working.

In the end I ripped the code out again when I realised how much work it would be to fix BoaL to actually use it properly. See the problem was that if Overload or Nova chased an enemy out of range both ships would disappear from Dradis. At which point how would you ever find them again? Given that the mission often required you to kill certain ships before you could progress this was a rather big problem as quite often you'd end up in a situation where say only Overload and Grail 3 were left and you had to find them in order to continue the mission. Only the only easy way to find them was to tell Overload to stop dogfighting and form on your wing so that Grail 3 would follow him back into range. :rolleyes:

That's why I'd rather see the overhaul I mentioned. You could make it so that ships out of range would appear briefly from time to time when targeted so that you would have an idea where to start looking for them.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Raptorrat on May 10, 2007, 06:15:48 PM
Quote

Would that it were that simple.

Anyone who has taken a good look at BoaL in FRED will have noticed the presence of a variable called CONST-DRADISMaxRange doing all kinds of things throughout the mission. They may have also noticed that it's not actually doing anything much which is actually DRADIS related.


That's why you're the coder and I'm not. :P

It was just something I thought off, (Again, I'm used to WWII-crates, No radar at all, just Mk.1 eyeball.)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Fabianx on May 11, 2007, 02:25:16 AM
>@Fabianx I don't know if you spotted it but I gave you access to the prospective team members forum. I don't mind continuing the discussion here though :)

Yes, please. I like public discussions more. I am currently stuck on Windows, so don't have access to my normal development environment at the moment.

Anyway:

>As for the stealth overhaul I'm talking about something a little more
>complex than what I can see in your posts (although maybe you're
>thinking along the same lines)

I guess I do :-).

>What I'd like to do is alter ships.tbl with a new entries for $Stealth
>Factor and $Stealth Detection Factor.

And add sexps to do this dynamically?

>Once you do that you can have situations where the Raptor is
>better at detecting stealth ships than the Vipers are as well as
>situations where it is just better at hiding.

Okay.

>Stealth factor should also be affected by difficulty level of the game >and the AI level (perhaps a new factor there or a simple multiplier).

I guess somewhat similar to the current AI code.

>If the actual Stealth parse flag has been used Stealth Factor should
>be bypassed completely (or simply set to 100%. Whichever makes
>more sense for the code).

I assume this is for backwards compatibility.

>Seen Season 2?

No, not yet, but I read on the wiki.

>The Blackbird is definitely a stealth ship and we
>could deal with it using the standard FS2 stealth options pretty >easily.

Okay ...

>However the show is also full of cases where Raptors have tried to
>stay undetectable by not moving much, staying in the shadows of
>asteroids etc.

Okay. Ah, like in pilot.

>Although that could be handled by the standard FS2 system it would
> be clumsy in comparison with simply letting the code handle it. :)

Sure.

>Now the problem with BSG stealth is we don't really know how
>good it is. That's one reason why it's a good idea to make a
>generalised system like I'm suggesting. Then if more data becomes
>available in season 4 we can tweak things. (It also means that the
>feature is more useful to people using it with other FS2 mods and if
>we play nice when adding our features that encourages them to do
>the same :) )

Sure :-).

>Judging from FS2 the AI is rather stupid when it comes to AIs and
>forget that they exist as soon as they can no longer see them. I'd
>like to see that AI actually searching for the ship they got a sniff of
>earlier. That might be a job for an AI coder though. :)

No, imho you got that wrong. Code and what I have experienced in missions do tell something else for me.

>Kinda an interesting story there. Basically BtRL is running on 3.6.9 +
>extra bug fixes. The idea was to run on 3.6.9 Official but we
>managed to get the demo ready only about 3 months after that and
> in the intervening time I've fixed a few quite important bugs (for our
> missions at least).

>I didn't want to release using what would be the equivalent of a daily
> build by simply compiling the current 3.6.9 branch as without proper
> testing that was almost certainly going to cause stability problems.
>So what ended up happening was that we released with 3.6.9
>Official + some of the bug fixes now in CVS that were critical for us.

Okay, I do understand.

If SCP used SVN you could easily have your own branch, but so ...

>For coders who join us that gives you three choices.

>1) Download the windows code from
>here (http://www.freespacefaq.com/Downloads/Misc/fs2_open_3.6.9-BtRL_Edition.7z)
> (I have a copy of the Linux source somewhere)

Why is there a difference? I thought both are just CVS checkouts?

>3) Use current 3.6.9 CVS and hope no one has introduced a show
>stopping bug.

Hm, for devel of new features it seems the most appropriate.

>3 is probably the best choice but the other two should work if you
>can't get that up and running.

>That's why I'd rather see the overhaul I mentioned. You could make
>it so that ships out of range would appear briefly from time to time
>when targeted so that you would have an idea where to start
>looking for them.

Okay.

Let me try a summary of what the code change should do:

- Introduce two new "flags" / variables for ships:

* Stealth detection factor
* Stealth factor

- Add corresponding sexps so that it can be dynamically changed at runtime.

Now the question is:

What does stealth factor exactly mean?

Lets take a use-case ;-):

Raptor from pilot was hit by missile and has no chance to survive, so they want to glide to caprica with engines off to repair it.

Engine and other subsystems disabled => Stealth factor of lets say 85.

Now there are several possibilities:

- Cylons have active AWACS => They see, target and kill raptor :-(

- Cylons never come near a certain distance of the raptor => raptor survives :-)

-  Cylons see on dradis just some debris, but think it is debris

=> From use case 1 we can see:

- Stealth factor is helpful, but an engine off raptor is not invisible, but rather appears as debris on radar. ( => possibly need other property / sexp )

Should Stealth factor be just based on distance or also partially targetable (which is that flashing on / off on radar like in nebula missions)?

Use case 2:

- Raptor and Vipers are searching for a stealth ship:

* Raptor has stealth detection factor of 25.
* Vipers have stealth detection factor of 0. (Mk. I eyeball)

Does that mean that raptor sees ships as partially targetable from a certain distance on and fully targetable from another more close distance?

What you mean with factor? How should the math work?

You could also use a random factor so that its only sometimes (chance of 25%) targetable ...

But: If the raptor can target it, can't the vipers then target it?

So: Is a raptor like an AWACS? Or could it sometimes be an AWACS or not?

Are there other use cases?

cu

Fabian
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on May 11, 2007, 09:39:12 AM
Quote from: Fabianx;71439
Quote
What I'd like to do is alter ships.tbl with a new entries for $Stealth Factor and $Stealth Detection Factor.

And add sexps to do this dynamically?

I'm a FREDder who codes, not the other way around. So I'll definitely want SEXPs to control any functionality I can get my hands on.

The only issue with SEXPs is going to be multiplayer. SEXPs are only evaluated on the server so that means that we'd need some way to transmit the new stealth level to the other clients.

If you want you can leave that to me though as I have to code in a similar option for the ship-stealthy SEXPs anyway.

Quote
Quote
>Stealth factor should also be affected by difficulty level of the game >and the AI level (perhaps a new factor there or a simple multiplier).

I guess somewhat similar to the current AI code.

The most flexible solution is to add new entries to ai.tbl and ai_profiles.tbl.

So basically an ai.tbl entry would change to this

Quote
$Name:         Coward
$accuracy:      0.001      0.002      0.003      0.004      0.005
$evasion:      1,      15,      16,      17,      18
$courage:      1,      15,      16,      17,      18
$patience:      40,      50,      60,      80,      100
$observation:          10,             20,             30,             40,              50  

The observation value would be an additional factor in how likely a ship was to spot a stealth ship

ai_profiles would have a similar modifier

Quote
 $AI Shield Manage Delay:                     5,    4,    2.5,  1.2,  0.1
 $AI Stealth Detection Scale:                10,  20,  30, 40, 50
  $Friendly AI Fire Delay Scale:               6,    5,  4, 3, 2

The numbers are completely arbitrary of course. :)  

Quote
Quote
>If the actual Stealth parse flag has been used Stealth Factor should
>be bypassed completely (or simply set to 100%. Whichever makes
>more sense for the code).

I assume this is for backwards compatibility.

Yep. The game has to always remain 100% compatible with FS2 retail or we lose the support of the SCP and have to fork the code. And that's not a particularly smart road to take. :)

Quote
Quote
>Judging from FS2 the AI is rather stupid when it comes to AIs and
>forget that they exist as soon as they can no longer see them. I'd
>like to see that AI actually searching for the ship they got a sniff of
>earlier. That might be a job for an AI coder though. :)

No, imho you got that wrong. Code and what I have experienced in missions do tell something else for me.

Quite possible. I've not looked at the AI code for stealth in detail. And I've only had a quick read through the rest of the stealth code. Well either way it will quickly become apparent what the case is once you start coding.

Quote
If SCP used SVN you could easily have your own branch, but so ...


We shouldn't really have ever needed one. The basic idea was to swap to the 3.6.9 immediately after the demo was released.

Quote
Quote
>1) Download the windows code from
>here (http://www.freespacefaq.com/Downloads/Misc/fs2_open_3.6.9-BtRL_Edition.7z)
> (I have a copy of the Linux source somewhere)

Why is there a difference? I thought both are just CVS checkouts?

Basically BtRL runs on a code base that is basically 3.6.9 Official + my bugfixes. CVS is 3.6.9 + everyone's bug fixes. And as such isn't as heavily tested for BtRL. A 3.6.9 checkout of the current codebase should work with BtRL but there was no good reason for me to take that risk on release day.

The archive I posted is the code I actually compiled to get the windows exes. If for some reason CVS doesn't work for you that's simply where you might want to look next.

Quote
Let me try a summary of what the code change should do:

- Introduce two new "flags" / variables for ships:

* Stealth detection factor
* Stealth factor

- Add corresponding sexps so that it can be dynamically changed at runtime.

That and the AI flags I mentioned above looks good to me.

Quote
Now the question is:

What does stealth factor exactly mean?

Lets take a use-case ;-):

Raptor from pilot was hit by missile and has no chance to survive, so they want to glide to caprica with engines off to repair it.

Engine and other subsystems disabled => Stealth factor of lets say 85.

Now there are several possibilities:

- Cylons have active AWACS => They see, target and kill raptor :-(

- Cylons never come near a certain distance of the raptor => raptor survives :-)

-  Cylons see on dradis just some debris, but think it is debris

=> From use case 1 we can see:

- Stealth factor is helpful, but an engine off raptor is not invisible, but rather appears as debris on radar. ( => possibly need other property / sexp )

Should Stealth factor be just based on distance or also partially targetable (which is that flashing on / off on radar like in nebula missions)?

Use case 2:

- Raptor and Vipers are searching for a stealth ship:

* Raptor has stealth detection factor of 25.
* Vipers have stealth detection factor of 0. (Mk. I eyeball)

Does that mean that raptor sees ships as partially targetable from a certain distance on and fully targetable from another more close distance?

What you mean with factor? How should the math work?

You could also use a random factor so that its only sometimes (chance of 25%) targetable ...

But: If the raptor can target it, can't the vipers then target it?

So: Is a raptor like an AWACS? Or could it sometimes be an AWACS or not?

Are there other use cases?

When it comes to the stealth system I still think a large overhaul might be needed (and the two examples you raise show that quite a few things could be changed) but right now I'd take a simple system which consisted of a couple of new table flags over no change at all.

So how much more work are you willing to take on? Cause I can design a much more complicated stealth system that makes example 1 work in code. Or I could simply take what you've mentioned so far, flesh it out the details a little for you and hack in the rest of the stuff I need in the mission itself.

I'd be happy with either change to be honest as even the smaller one is a big improvement on the current system. :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: takashi on May 11, 2007, 04:28:44 PM
im looking forward to these as an option in both BTRL and FS2, but not a requirement. (as not to break the main campaing)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Fabianx on May 27, 2007, 02:06:03 PM
Just for the record:

The stealth proposal has been implemented and the patch is currently being reviewed. :)

cu

Fabian
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Jayge on May 27, 2007, 02:10:48 PM
All that work amidst teaching me to make missions in TextEdit worked out, eh?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KRakarth on May 28, 2007, 10:51:13 AM
Having read this thread I was about to suggest Fabian's method of dealing with stealth. As its a damn good one.

Stealth is more commonly known in military circles as ECM (Electronic counter Measures) or "how hard you are to spot" and ECCM (Electronic Counter Counter Measures) or "how easily you can cut through the crap".
Using these variables it should be easy to change how hard something is to spot too.  It also enables things like active and passive targetting, variable stealthiness. etc.

here is my working example:

Raptor has active targeting running - its radar or whatever is pinging out and it can actively see 1000metres.  (eccm 1000) but because it is broadcasting (active sensors!!) it is also seen very easily (ecm-1000).

So a Raider which is also using its active targeting is on patrol:
its active sensors have a range of 1000m as well. (eccm 1000, ecm -1000).

When can the raider see our raptor?

Using our ECM and ECCM we can work it out.  Taking the raiders ECCM (1000)and subtracting the Raptors ECM (-1000) gives us an electronic warfare (EW)value:

1000-(-1000)=2000

we just compare this to the range.
So our raider becomes aware of our Raptor at 2km.  Our Raptor crew also becomes aware of our raider at the same time.  

Now If there isnt much difference between the range and EW value (say 500) you give a poor quality lock where the blip just appears in the Radar but you cant lock on.  In this example, the raider is aware of the raptor but wont get a lock on until it is within 1500m (2000-500)

Deciding discretion is the better part of valour, our Raptor crew decides to bug out. The raider closes to within 1500m of our raptor when the crew shut off the engines and go to passive sensors.  this changes their ecm and eccm values to ECCM 500 and ECM-100 (because we can always assume that the raptor can be eyeballed at 100m)  respectively.

So can the raider see our gallant crew?

1000-(-100)=1100

nope, the raider is at a range of 1500m which is too far away to spot the raider.

The raptor crew can just still see the raider however

500 - (-1000)=1500

being stupid the raider decided it was a sensor ghost and goes off somewhere else.

The really cool thing about this is that you can add ECM as an environmental effect (thing nebulae), thereby changing sensor ranges  there are no special cases for stealth ships, or missles or anything else.  Stealth ships just get a positive ECM value making them really hard to spot!
 
Oh and I was going to ask for voice comms too :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Khaze on May 28, 2007, 11:03:40 AM
DRADIS distortion and stealth and the like.
 
What I mean is, you should be able to see debris and asteroids on the DRADIS, and you could use those to cover yourself from enemy DRADIS.
 
A good example would be the Scar episode. They told that DRADIS was useless in the asteroid field due to distortion from the asteroids. You should be able to use that to your advatange, because currently there's no way what-so-ever to hide from the enemy, you're always visible in DRADIS and you can be targeted whenever.
 
Think stopping beside a small asteroid and shutting down all your systems, then just sit and wait.... and boom shoot the Viper flying past.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on May 28, 2007, 11:06:03 AM
That's pretty much what I was intending to do once I've played with the way it is so far.

Eventually can add in other factors (afterburner usage, firing weapons, etc.) and simply have them increase or decrease the stealth factor of the ship. The proposed clocking system that FS2_Open was eventually going to add could also use the stealth values too.

OF course the first thing that has to be done is for me to add Fabian's code to CVS so that we can start testing it.

Then we can decide if we need these improvements.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: SamSneak on May 31, 2007, 05:18:13 AM
Electronic Warfare "Jammer" Pods for Cylon Raiders

Is it possible to implement some kind of an "electronic" weapon that could be used by some of the Cylons to try and jam the Colonial vessels?  While the "jammer" wouldn't actually be much of a a physical object as far as being visible, it would behave like one in code for line-of-sight and range.  

It would certainly be entertaining to have a electronic jamming attack available.  Kind of a way to offset the stealth issue -
jamming critical units during a first strike means that if you successfully launch a sneak attack first this makes it possible for a few raiders to hit and run on groups of Colonials.  Who needs stealth when you can't see a thing on Dradis?

Plus I just want to see someone's nice neat little formation turn into a multiple Viper pileup when they get a little too close to an asteroid belt.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on May 31, 2007, 06:57:26 AM
It's pretty easy to script or FRED one of those into a mission. We simply just didn't do anything based around the time of the Cylon Holocaust for you to see it....yet. :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: sirbingo on June 01, 2007, 12:25:14 AM
I'm not sure if this has been requested..but how about some sort of audible or visual clue that Glide has been enabled.:naughty:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: StarSlayer on June 01, 2007, 12:40:48 AM
i want to hang out the side door of a Raptor and take pot shots at Raiders with my sidearm
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: takashi on June 01, 2007, 03:24:21 AM
wouldnt you implode from being in a vacuum?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on June 01, 2007, 04:09:19 AM
Quote from: takashi;73714
wouldnt you implode from being in a vacuum?

Well, first off you would EX-plode slowly, as the off-gassed steam from the water in every cell in your body tried to expand it's current container beyond its normal cellular shape.

Other than that you have noticed Raptor pilots wear survival suits and helmets in combat didn't you???


Starslayer, how about a mini-gun mount instead of a sidearm?  Or go old-skool with a re-imagined .50 cal?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: SGT_R22eR on June 01, 2007, 10:53:38 PM
Could be a Desert Eagle.... a .50 cal sidearm.... got the best of both worlds...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Flaser on June 03, 2007, 02:52:06 AM
1st: in space you don't explode. You suffocate. Also you won't freeze - for quite a while as there is no medium to transmit heat, so body heat leaves you only as radiation in the IR band.

2nd: The Desert Eagle is overhyped. If you were shooting stuff with that much armor I suggest the Hungarian made "Gepard" heavy sniper rifle (among the few rifles in the world that can gut IFVs).
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: StarSlayer on June 03, 2007, 03:22:05 AM
Yeah but plinking a Raider in the eye with a Colonial 5.7 x 28 mm sidearm is much more gratifying then poping him with a Barret or a door mounted minigun.  Plus it was supposed to be a joke :p
Title: My thoughts
Post by: Dasher42 on June 04, 2007, 02:55:18 AM
First off, I've had an outstanding time with the demo.  This team has made something of rare quality in the modding and coding world and I'm happy as a clam.  Also, if you need help LODding any ships, look me up.  I love your models, though with my own Cylon Raider mesh, I was able to get it looking pretty good with a combination of automated and by-hand LODding at 1884 polygons and lods down as far as 70... I want to make sure things are playable for everyone, that or put hundreds of these onscreen without lag!

http://zenonline.com/~dasher/Raider1884.jpg (http://zenonline.com/~dasher/Raider1884.jpg)

Based on the demo, there are the things that stand out the most to me (some of which may have been mentioned before):

Gliding is almost but not quite right.  It's easy to lose track of the fact that you've turned it on.  Either having to hold a button down or having a very distinct HUD element to it, or both, would do the trick.  Hats off to you for doing it as well as you have; it is a brilliant compromise between realism and gameplay.

EDIT: Strike that bit about maneuvering thrusters not being strong enough!  I've experimented more with gliding and realize that too much change here would be abusable.  You've got it right.

The GUI elements are pretty but a bit awkward to look at.  The clickable elements should be more distinct.  You could make them stand out with backlight similar to the display of a Mk7 cockpit, I think.

The randomized pilot chatter hints that some level of randomness could enter the mission setup.  It would be brilliant to have story elements unfold in a less linear way, and I actually have some design concepts as a programmer that could be worth discussing.  Story is a big deal and from my own direct contact with Ron Moore and other answers to questions about volunteer-created games, he wanted to see things come out that were about more than blowing up Cylons.

Finally, I'd love to buy all the volunteers involved a beer.  This rules!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on June 04, 2007, 03:28:27 AM
Thanks for the post dasher - mind if I ask you to go into more detail about your talks with Ron Moore? :D That sounds really interesting, did he have anything to say about us?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Dasher42 on June 04, 2007, 06:00:42 AM
Well, anything I actually got out of him about gaming mods, he's said more about it elsewhere.  However, I'll recap it here.  To him, Battlestar Galactica isn't about Colonials and Cylons shooting each other up, or good versus bad, even though that does happen.  He's mildly positive about fan-based gaming, but he does stress that he wants to see story and character development over sheer dogfights.  I get the strong impression he would be strongly positive and gratified by real story-telling efforts.  

Keep in mind, I'm a Homeworld modder, and considering that I am a fan of Ron Moore's earlier work as a writer on Deep Space 9 and I was the main scripter for Sacrifice of Angels, that's what I made mention of.  I also gave him a sly grin and told him "So, I've made the Enterprise blow up more times than you".  He's a good guy.

Anyhow, yes, definitely start adding touches that appeal to Galactica's relevance as a story.  One easy way would be to start adding images like the photograph in the pilot's briefing room in 33, 11 minutes 20 seconds in - "Never forget", or outcome-dependent images like search and rescue raptors at the end.  If the programming for less linear storylines interest you, I'll talk design concepts on IM. :)

BTW, I loved that little zinger of voice acting.  "Pilots, are you alive and well out there?  I'm not.  I'm being pummelled by rocks!"  XD
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on June 04, 2007, 09:07:25 AM
Actually the plotline of the demo is one of the demo's weakest elements the team tends to feel. It was a product of how the demo came together rather than a plan to make such loosely connected missions. We're definitely going with a much deeper storyline for the full game (but it's hard to set up that sort of thing in only 2 missions and a training mission).

As for not being linear. Try following Gauntlet instead of following your orders in either mission and you'll see that we have no interest in being linear at all. What you do in the first mission definitely affects what happens in the second and we'll be doing a lot more of that sort of thing in the final product too. :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Rapier on June 07, 2007, 05:30:12 PM
One thing I would like to see would be being able to be a gunner on either the Pegasus or Galactica, when those are present in the mission.  This might be problematic in single player mode, but could be an extra option during multiplayer for respawn.  Instead of Respawn, and Return to flight deck, there could be an extra option to man a turret.  Once in the turret, since the odds of the Battlestar's being destroyed are slim, you could have an option to opt back out and get into a fighter, or, since gun emplacements would be the target of enemy fire, you could lose your life that way as well and get back to the Respawn menu. The controls would be essentially the same, but obviously a hell of a lot more rounds at your disposal and the ability (if it could be coded) to use a zoom feature akin to changing the power of a rifle scope, so you could get into the action even if ships are not directly attacking the ship.  When you zoom in, your controls would be more sensitive, just like they are with a scope.  A little movement at 12x can take your target completely out of frame, where at 3x, you could have more movement, but not as close.

There could even be a couple of single missions where you job is specific to being a gunner, with the option of jumping from gun emplacement to emplacement, to allow you to switch locations when you want for maximum defensive coverage.  

If anyone has played Star Wars Battlefront or Crimson Skies, it's basically the same thing implemented in that.

I don't think from a coding aspect it would be hard, though it would need to have a different graphic interface.  But that could be much simpler in design, since you are manning a gun.  And you could even choose which gun system during gameplay to change to.  AA, missles, or machine gun.


Just a thought
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Wolfy on June 07, 2007, 08:07:01 PM
hm, that sounds like the battlestar galactica game on the PS2, some missions you where a guner and you had the use of 4 seperate turrets which you could switch between.

anyway, im not even sure if thasts possible in the FS2 engine as it expects you to fly a fighter, not a section of a huge spacecraft, although, if its possible, it would be really fun, although in the show the gunners dont really shot that many things down (except basestars)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: WMCoolmon on June 07, 2007, 09:39:09 PM
I'm sure it's possible. I've always wanted to see some kind of 'controllable_thing' class, which could be applied to any object that the player could reasonably control. For example, a ship, turret, or missile.

Then you could route all the HUD code through that class, so when you called "set_target" for the current "controllable_thing" it would call the appropriate code to set the target for the turret, missile, or ship. Or "query_weapon" would give you the ship_weapon struct with the current object's weapons. "move_up" would be called when the player pressed up, and tilt the object up (or down), and so on.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Rapier on June 07, 2007, 11:58:02 PM
Quote from: WMCoolmon;74257
I'm sure it's possible. I've always wanted to see some kind of 'controllable_thing' class, which could be applied to any object that the player could reasonably control. For example, a ship, turret, or missile.

Then you could route all the HUD code through that class, so when you called "set_target" for the current "controllable_thing" it would call the appropriate code to set the target for the turret, missile, or ship. Or "query_weapon" would give you the ship_weapon struct with the current object's weapons. "move_up" would be called when the player pressed up, and tilt the object up (or down), and so on.


Rock!

Give me access to a 30mm Gatling Gun, and it would have the feel of defending a B-17 against the Luftwaffe. Fun fun fun.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on June 08, 2007, 01:25:52 AM
Quote from: WMCoolmon;74257
I'm sure it's possible. I've always wanted to see some kind of 'controllable_thing' class, which could be applied to any object that the player could reasonably control. For example, a ship, turret, or missile.

Then you could route all the HUD code through that class, so when you called "set_target" for the current "controllable_thing" it would call the appropriate code to set the target for the turret, missile, or ship. Or "query_weapon" would give you the ship_weapon struct with the current object's weapons. "move_up" would be called when the player pressed up, and tilt the object up (or down), and so on.

Couldn't the "controllable_thing" class can also just be implemented as a "virtual fighter" where the motion model is strictly slaved to the mothership, just like a Viper in the tube would be.  No external  geometry would be required, just appropriate HUD & cockpit/control station graphics.  Slave the targeting directors to the fighters attitude controls and disable any throttle/thruster inputs.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: takashi on June 08, 2007, 02:14:45 AM
make a bonus feture that gives you TOS/cameo appearance ships in multi after finishng X number of missions
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on June 08, 2007, 02:15:33 AM
What the hell is it with you and TOS ships?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: takashi on June 08, 2007, 03:29:21 AM
we already have the "cylotron", so why not go the rest of the way? its sorta like the want of shivan mods, flying what you usualy cant.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on June 08, 2007, 03:58:32 AM
The "Cylotron" is a non-canon nuBSG design, not a TOS design.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: meleardil on June 08, 2007, 05:34:04 AM
Not every TOS fan can recognize a TOS ship, it was soo long ago... or shall I take it as a compliment?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Wolfy on June 08, 2007, 08:27:56 AM
Well, i beleive the devs said that they where gonna do alot of TOS series ships (such as cylon raider n basestar, and possibly the viper), no sure though but i think i heard that anyway?

so when the mods released, its not hard to edit missions so that you can add the ability to fly other ships in the mission, if you want them its the kind of things you can do your self quite easily.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on June 08, 2007, 04:49:15 PM
You will however break multiplayer doing that.

As far as I'm concerned we should add all the TOS ships to the final version whether or not we make missions that use them. With the exception of TOS Galactica they're all canon to the show anyway. All we'd need would be a bunch of TOS weapon systems and we'd be sorted.

Now this is my opinion. I'm not head of this mod so the final decision isn't mine alone. Quite frankly though given the relative ease with which we could fully support TOS not just as nBSG canon (i.e Cylon civil war) but as TOS BSG canon too I see no good reason not to.

Plus it would really stick in the GINO crowd's craw if the best TOS game available was an nBSG game. :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: StarSlayer on June 08, 2007, 06:40:54 PM
I dunno kara that seems to cause a bit of a conundrum.

Well, would we make it stand alone? TOS A) had lasers B) didn't have fancy physics.  I would just wonder if the game might become a might bloated if it carried a whole different weapons roster and separate TOS flight tables.  Making 1CW pure TOS just wouldn't fit seamlessly with NuBSG though.

On the other hand having TOS ships with NuBSG rules would be cool.  The only problem i would see is that 1CW would use a bunch of Nu BSG equipment such as Galactica, BTRL non canon 1CW era ships, MKIIs, ect.  In the end you would have sorta a mash of TOS and TNS which wouldn't make it a pure TOS game.  Stylistically i think that would fit in with RDM's vision of BSG and be a believable in TNS continuity but the TOSers would probably call it heresy.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on June 08, 2007, 07:41:26 PM
The flight physics is the only really issue.

Lasers aren't a problem. We add them to the tables but simply don't enable them for any of the 1CW missions. We'll be on 3.7 by the final release and we'll have 200 weapon slots to deal with. That's plenty for a TOS mod included in the main download. If someone wants to make a TOS mission they simply replace the weapons.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Wolfy on June 08, 2007, 08:24:11 PM
ahhhhj, i see, i was wandering after what you said earlier

but just to clarify, you meen:
TOS ships acturally still use the same style weapons as the reinvisioned galactica
Lasers are also able to be fit to the craft for 3rd Party/home made missions
We could fit reinvisioned ships with TOS weapons (which sounds quite cool)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on June 08, 2007, 08:53:36 PM
Basically yes.

Right now the team has no plans to make a 1CW campaign but we're likely to give you the ships so that 3rd party FREDders can do it.

Given the relatively minor effort required to add TOS weapons I'd say that we should do that too. That way any TOS fans can also make missions.


Of course any weapons we include can just as easily be stuck on nBSG ships too. So you can have the Pegasus firing lasers if you so wish.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Wolfy on June 08, 2007, 09:20:40 PM
however, im guseing seeming basestars fire missiles, which are secondary weapons, they wont be able to have lasers or bullets?

*trys to imagine the basestar fireing bullets* hehehe
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Argentum on June 09, 2007, 04:00:28 PM
Quote from: karajorma;56784
Okay guys. Here's a chance for you to bounce some ideas around.

The developers have our own thread in the internal for this where we can talk about secret stuff but on this thread I'd like you to post ideas for features you'd like to see in the full game.

Last time we did this someone mentioned having ships that were stealthed until you got within a certain range of them. This is actually quite hard to do in the FS2_Open engine as if you turn stealth on no one can see that ship regardless of the distance and if you turn it off everyone can. However if we have new coders joining us and looking for something to add that's something we wouldn't mind having. :)

So here's your chance to make some suggestions. The cooler and more reasonable the suggestion the better chance we have of finding someone who can code it. Knowledge of FS2 will help but isn't mandatory :)

BTW We'll do this again once the demo is out and you have a better idea what can be done. :)



Perhaps it is asking too much, but would it be possible to fly missions into planets?. That is, from space to the planet atmosphere, perform  a rescue or drop troops, etc.
the game looks great!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on June 09, 2007, 05:05:04 PM
Space to atmosphere transitions are not supported by the engine at the moment. We can do in-atmosphere missions (check out the Shadows of Lylat or Twisted Infinities mods for proof of that) but the transition isn't currently possible.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: CamInHead on June 09, 2007, 08:59:07 PM
Quote from: StarSlayer;74342
...TOSers....


no need to get rude about it ;)

whatever happened to the original IPAndrews/Killfrenzy/whoever TOS conversion ?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on June 09, 2007, 09:48:27 PM
Raptor's running it over on HLP.

Unfortunately he's one of the real GINO hardcases and as such is really not worth working with.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: StarSlayer on June 09, 2007, 10:12:21 PM
Quote from: CamInHead;74474
no need to get rude about it ;)

whatever happened to the original IPAndrews/Killfrenzy/whoever TOS conversion ?


Hey Ive watched the originals, and that was before TNS to boot.  Living Legend, Hand of God are pure gold.  Heck i liked most of TOS for what it was.  I've even seen a bit of Galacti...*Heresy Removed* with the time jumping Vi... *Censored*.  Not a whole show mind you, just enough to know  that it was pure crap.:p
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: CamInHead on June 10, 2007, 05:41:21 PM
Quote from: StarSlayer;74480
...I've even seen a bit of Galacti...*Heresy Removed* with the time jumping Vi... *Censored*.  Not a whole show mind you, just enough to know  that it was pure crap.:p


the one with the flying bikes ?
:no:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Ender on June 10, 2007, 08:30:57 PM
Thou Shaltnot Commit Heresy Of The Most Serious Degree,
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Spike12 on June 11, 2007, 07:14:04 AM
I don't know if this has been addressed or not, but I think the HUD text could be a bit brighter, because as it is I had some trouble casually reading it. That was really my only gripe with the game, the demo has been a blast so far. Dogfighting with guns isn't easy, and that's the way I like it. Also, is there a cockpit view? If not, that'd be a very neat addition.
Title: my 2 centons
Post by: Kingssman on June 11, 2007, 08:34:01 AM
I've played alot of BSG games, the console, the homeworld mod, Heck even the BF2 mod Rise of Kobol. Currently i'm basing this on a similar space sim with great physics, Tachyon.

by far this is the best.

suggestions

1. When exiting glide, have the ship drift alittle just like the normal drift it currently has. What's with the invisible instant 0 wall? if we need to stop that fast just 180 and afterburner.

2. Afterburner, these things should be powerfull and fast. Have afterburner give 2x top speed.

3. *bonus* If there's atmospheric style missions, they could be like high altitude glide disabled missions. Or atmosphere with a ground where glide is disabled and some rudementry atmosphere flight sim physics. This would make a great mission "Exodus" where you launch from galactica as it's doing its freefall thing to take out ground targets to free the New Capricans.

everything else seems on par.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on June 11, 2007, 10:49:22 AM
Quote from: Spike12;74605
I don't know if this has been addressed or not, but I think the HUD text could be a bit brighter, because as it is I had some trouble casually reading it.


You can alter the colours used by the HUD from the options menu. Next to the accept button you'll see an option labelled HUD Config. Click on that and you can change the default colours of the HUD to whatever you like. Making it more white should make it easier for you.

Quote
Also, is there a cockpit view? If not, that'd be a very neat addition.


That's another feature that is already on the way actually.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Turambar on June 11, 2007, 01:38:43 PM
Quote from: Kingssman;74611


3. *bonus* If there's atmospheric style missions, they could be like high altitude glide disabled missions. Or atmosphere with a ground where glide is disabled and some rudementry atmosphere flight sim physics. This would make a great mission "Exodus" where you launch from galactica as it's doing its freefall thing to take out ground targets to free the New Capricans.

everything else seems on par.


oooooh, that sounds like a good idea

i'm kind of actually working on something that would make this more possible.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Fairchild on June 11, 2007, 02:18:33 PM
Going to ask again.
After playing the last month or so, I find that almost no shooting occurs at the 120m mark where the guns are set for.
300 meters is average, 500 is more likely.
The closure rate for a head on at 120m is too fast. Even if they are flying in the same direction as you, 120m is too close to keep them in your sites.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Kingssman on June 11, 2007, 04:47:11 PM
Quote from: Turambar;74634
oooooh, that sounds like a good idea

i'm kind of actually working on something that would make this more possible.


Check out the gameplay of Ace Combat 4/5 the ground doesn't have to be too fancy, just well textured.

For high atmosphere combat,  "Robotech: Battlecry"  some missions in that seem to just replace the space enviroment texture with a sky and high altitutude ground texture so it appears your fighting 200-400k feet up yet if you fly straight down you never hit ground.

Possibly an "eye of the storm" mission, the one where starbuck *****
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on June 11, 2007, 04:50:25 PM
Quote from: Fairchild;74636
Going to ask again.
After playing the last month or so, I find that almost no shooting occurs at the 120m mark where the guns are set for.
300 meters is average, 500 is more likely.
The closure rate for a head on at 120m is too fast. Even if they are flying in the same direction as you, 120m is too close to keep them in your sites.

Agreed.  I have also suggested a 250-300m convergence for the guns.
Title: Hit sound effect change
Post by: Gibborim on July 16, 2007, 08:10:17 PM
First, let me just say that this game is astoundingly brilliant.  :D That being said, my only suggestion at the moment:

The sound effects for hitting a ship are one of the only things that pulls me out of the BSG feel.  The high-pitched ping gets louder the closer you are, making it even more jarring.  A simple metallic thud or dense impact sound would suffice...or some more subtle visual or audible reporting from the hud would do.  I'll go back and see if the current sound was in the actual episodes of BSG, but I think there are much better ways to report a hit that make a lot more sense and are less irritating than the ricochet one at present.

Gib
Title: Gun convergence warning
Post by: Gibborim on July 16, 2007, 08:22:27 PM
Several threads talk about moving gun convergence to a longer range.  Having played a lot of FS2 then moving to BtRL, obviously it is harder to hit anything.  Remember that the devs are trying to stay true to BSG yet make the game fun.  Making things too easy to hit betrays the show.  There needs to be a balance where new players CAN hit things, but not as often as a practiced player.  In FS2, a new player could easily nick and nip a target until it was dead.  This is less so in BtRL, making it slightly less accessible to "arcade" players.

I warn that we should all accept the increased requirement in skill to a point.  I actually agree that the hit range should be altered, but VERY slightly.  I like that it is harder to hit things.  I think that it is much more exciting and makes dogfighting more fantastic.  If we're all blowing each other out of space just because we managed to get behind someone else, then we've helped reduce the game to rock/paper/scissors.

Think of it as the difference between an Unreal Tournament game and a Tom Clancy Rainbow Six game.  UT lets you get pounded by rockets and survive...fairly easy to tag someone.  Clancy games are centered more in reality where a little damage brings a target down, but you often require more than random shooting and flailing.  It is a different style of gaming.

Suggestion: Move the convergence farther out only slightly.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: [dw]-hunter on July 17, 2007, 05:25:53 AM
Quote
Me and a friend of mine have complained about how hitting the AI can be nearly impossible, with framerate and erract AI. But since making the enemy AI easier to hit would just take the fun out of it, I think some type of optional auto-aim would help a lot.


The problem I see with that is, people could then make AIM-BOTS very easily, and the source code is easy to get. The last thing i want is cheaters wrecking the game and then nobody playing the game because there is no effective anti-cheat system. And even if the team created an anti-cheat system, they wouldn't be able to play with their modified builds which they would be testing for the next build release. If you really suck at the game, I suggest switching your control type and lowering the difficulty. Full on keyboard and joystick are difficult to learn with zero experience playing with them. All my friends who cant play worth a damn I tell them to fly mouse and they seem to do just fine.

Quote from: Lagorite;67765
Well, they land in the flight pods. Not the launch tubes. The pods are quite a bit bigger. But I agree that it would be cool with landings.


Turey and I have been discussing the landing actually, but since I doubt anyone would be able to land the fighter manually, there would have to be some sort of system to assist you, there is no way landing would work manually anyways.

Quote from: Unknown Target;67992
Quote
Another thing the show has plenty of is nukes. Would be cool to have a nuclear detonation every now and then (either fired by the cylons, raiders sometimes carry them), or maybe even have a mission where you deploy one yourself?
Would be cool if your instruments went beserk for a while when caught near the blast, as a result of EMP..


I don't see why not...it's just another weapon. Also, Freespace 2 already has a system in place where if you get hit by an EMP attack your HUD goes nuts.


Trust me people, EMP is the most annoying weapon to get hit by, all it does is make your hud blink and scramble and itsinsanely annoying. So the use of an EMP missle is pretty stupid, I still strongly suggest not using EMP in the game for the two reasons of, people HATE EMP effects, and the emp totally frys fighters systems in the show, making it extremly annoying to play a mission with bombs because you keep getting your flight control systems fried, and probably killed when a cylon comes along and sees you. And heres no point in just adding the EMP flag to the nukes because the FS2 style EMP's are not like the show. Plus, bombing without shields is already a fucking pain in the ass, dont make it worse.

Quote from: Herra Tohtori;68112
Quote from: Volw;68109
I just can't wait to hear some 12yr old kid nicknamed 'Adama3215362' screaming over comms

Exactly the reason why I don't really think voice comms should be high priority code change.

Those who want to listen to mentioned screaming can do it... I will not likely bother do that.


You can turn the built-in voice off in host options.

Quote from: Adalla;68217
Actually something I noticed in MP. The only stat that I can see are my kills, nad the kills of the top 3 or 4 people I think. It would be good to have a stats screen with everybody's kills, deaths etc. And an end of mission stats screen.


Thats been in Freespace since FS1, in the upper left press statistics, then to see another pilots score you just click their name on the lower right.

Quote from: Przemo-c;68405
2 Joystick control ... it would be great if you could make not only deadzone adjustable but to be able to adjust recponce curve to joistick input... adjusting that for example moving lever by from 0-1cm would result in in smaller movement on screen than from 1-2cm.


press F2, you can set it in there.

Quote from: Przemo-c;68405
3. Making "waypoints" the ability to  point at something or marking current position that you could come back to for example enrty tunnel easier.


The problem with that is your distance from the waypoint, just simply trying to set a waypoint would probably just set one up at the coordinate your located at because theres no way to set the distance of it, either that or it would freeze the game because it would setup a waypoint infinite meters away from you. A better way to setup waypoints by being able to choose a waypoint from pre-selected coodinates set by the mission designer.

Quote from: Foo;69096
hehe, for some reason I just had a horrible flash back of Star Wars Ep 1...stupid battle driods...."uh oh"


If your talking about what Jar Jar said, he actually said, "Dumb Droid!!!"

Quote from: Raptorrat;69133
Nah, it isn't. Just have the sound of a dial-up modem connecting


You can actually make that sound with any connection, you just need to plug a speaker to your phoneline and plug your DSL directly into the wall instead of a filter, you can do the same with 56k. If you dont have either of those, you can plug a speaker into your ethernet line. But with the use of anything faster then dialup its probably just gunna sound like a bunch of clicks or screaching or maybe nothing at all if your running a gigabit network.

Quote from: flatbeet;69221
so I see that there will be a non-flying part of the game developed too, am I right? I mean the game won`t insist on just clicking from one briefing to another? There will be a developed characters, a simple deck life, am I right? Will I be able to follow other pilot`s progress? I mean things like scoreboard or something like that, beeing able to chat with them?


I dont mean to point you away from this amazing game but if your looking for a game with that discription, you would probably find Freelancer fits that discription a lot better. The only limitation it has is that you control your ship with the mouse, no other forms of control are availble to use.

Quote from: flatbeet;69221
Also I suppose that the main menu window will change into something more friendly or realistic like deck view or other main place on Battlestar...


Yes that is intended for the Final release so I am told.

Quote from: gbtf67;69826
Raiders need to be easier to kill, like 5 hits kill...like in the show


Uh... actually the games already like that. You just need to hit the target 5 times :p

Quote from: karajorma;74463
Space to atmosphere transitions are not supported by the engine at the moment. We can do in-atmosphere missions (check out the Shadows of Lylat or Twisted Infinities mods for proof of that) but the transition isn't currently possible.


That reminds me when Turey and I were messing around on shadows of lylat on his computer and he blew up the race track planet thing by accedent, not knowing it was posible LOL.

Quote from: Spike12;74605
I don't know if this has been addressed or not, but I think the HUD text could be a bit brighter, because as it is I had some trouble casually reading it.


Press L and it will increase the brightness of the HUD without increasing the brightness of the envirement.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Josh_88 on July 17, 2007, 07:31:30 AM
As far as changing the convergence... I've had no problem with where its set, the problems you are experiencing are due to the way you are approaching the raiders. you can't hope for a head to head fly-by, you have to take your chances at getting behind them or after a head on pass make a tighter turn, glide and thrusters are your friend, you can easily get side and top angles which provide much larger targets, and with thrusters as well as afterburners, I can easily get within the current convergence range. its all in the approach.

even better, if you DO get a head on flyby, when they zip past, just hit glide, flip 360 and fire at their backside as they fly away from you.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: [dw]-hunter on July 17, 2007, 12:16:19 PM
OK noobs, I made the cylon missle an emp missle so you all can experience first hand what its like to get hit by emp. Place this file in the main demo folder (usually C:\Games\BtRL\Demo\) Please DELETE this before you play multiplayer, as it will make your tables invalid.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: M-562 on July 17, 2007, 12:54:55 PM
Why would u turn 360 degrees? it would put u in the exact same position as before u would turn, I think u mean 180 degrees.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: AlphaMaik on July 17, 2007, 01:22:16 PM
Somewhat is missing, at least for us German players… German Subtitles are missing.  
It would be great if at least all texts, as Briefings and Techdata would give also in German subtitle. Naturally I know to consider it for you more importantly gives with the development, therefore it is only an idea, hope or a suggestion.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on July 17, 2007, 07:48:21 PM
http://www.game-warden.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4403&highlight=translation

Go for it. The main barrier to us including translations is simply that we don't have that many members fluent in said languages. Translations are one area where the fans could really help us out.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Josh_88 on July 17, 2007, 08:52:18 PM
Quote from: M-562;76893
Why would u turn 360 degrees? it would put u in the exact same position as before u would turn, I think u mean 180 degrees.


indeed, it was late and I did mean 180, thanks for catching that.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Fairchild on July 17, 2007, 10:09:02 PM
Which gives you a split second at 120m to shoot.
Again even flying behind them, you don't get very long before you are out of that range.
If you match speed, things catch up imho. Speed is life.
It doesn't make the game easier per se. I still feel it will be hard to pound some of these people with that change.
Intimidator is one of the hardest to hit regardless of where the convergence is set. I have wasted more rounds and time trying to get him into my sites than all the other player combined. He just has a funky flying style that keeps him out of the shooting envelope.
But he doesn't get very many kills evading. Those player gunning for each other already have a game of heads or tails, not even rock, paper, sissors.
When I fly against Badaa in the same type of ship, it is basically who died last that wins. We come up almost even, and "die" within seconds of respawning. But that is how the player flys, not a product of how easy or hard it is to line up the shot.
We are both very agressive players, trying to rack up quick kills.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: takashi on July 17, 2007, 10:20:40 PM
request: machine-gun style burst fire
reason: realism/closer to an actual viper
description: a table function that sets the time to fire each "burst, and the delay between "bursts".

(i like the form better then the "how about a X feature" system)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Dukeman42 on July 17, 2007, 10:58:41 PM
Actually I've never seen vipers fire in defined bursts (other than that done by the pilot themselves).  Even in real life most aircraft (the ones I know) cannon only have selection for rate of fire, but not burst/full auto.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be considered (saying I'm not for it is only MY opinion).  Just offering a counter-point of consideration.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Shade on July 17, 2007, 11:03:29 PM
Quote
If you match speed, things catch up imho. Speed is life.
Tip of the day: In my experience, never match speed. Keep set speed at something that suits you (max probably would be best for multi) and use forward/reverse thrusters to adjust as needed when pursuing or strafing. That way you won't accidentally forget to turn off speed-matching and end up cruising at 10ms :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Josh_88 on July 18, 2007, 01:49:24 AM
solution to burst firing.... Pull trigger, do a 1 count, release trigger, a burst has been fired.

as far as the glide flip to fire at them as they go by.. the way I find it happens, is if you thruster up or down, you've got a large target, and even after they pass the convergence distance, they will likely be turning to make another run at you, so your shots will be a little off as they turn, and they still have a chance to hit with a stray round that is past convergence.  

in most cases, i get the head on half second, flip to glide gives me half a second, and then i have a half second after they've turned and gotten back on my tail, then I turn glide off, so I'm taking another head on shot.....

thats about 1.5-2 seconds of shots close to convergence, and some are even above or below creating a large target.  In BSG world, 2 seconds is a lot of time on a target in 1-2 passes.

all im saying is it's worked great for me
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: [dw]-hunter on July 18, 2007, 03:46:34 AM
I dont understand what the point of putting burst fire on is, every game I've played that offered the selection of burst, auto or semi, you have to release the fire button and press it again before itll shoot another 3 or 4 shots on burst fire. Why not just shoot 3 or 4 shots in your fighter and then release the trigger instead. I don't mean to be offensive to anyone, but anyone who can't release the trigger after a few shots and then fire again after a few seconds to conserve shots needs to play some other flight simulator thats not for experienced players before playing this game so they can actually have fun killing cylons. If you have never played a flight simulator before, your definitely gunna label this game "hard".
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: takashi on July 18, 2007, 04:53:31 PM
hey, its just an option.  maybe even a "switch on burst fire" for newbies who havent learned how to conserve shots, or for pros who want to look hard-core with perfect bursts!

in other words...its just like the time-honored feature of the difficulty gauge, but it affects shot conservation and trains newbs by showing them what they should fire like intead of making AI stupid.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Shade on July 18, 2007, 08:39:29 PM
I honestly can't see the point. Conserving ammo is as simple as taking your finger off the fire button, not exactly the steepest learning curve one might encounter with this game.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: A2597 on July 18, 2007, 10:28:59 PM
OK...this ones a LONG shot...

Stencil Shadows? Or Shadows at all?

I remember someone at the SCP saying it was possible somehow, just that no one was focusing on it....
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Turey on July 19, 2007, 12:25:56 AM
Quote from: A2597;76981
OK...this ones a LONG shot...

Stencil Shadows? Or Shadows at all?

I remember someone at the SCP saying it was possible somehow, just that no one was focusing on it....


It was done once, but IIRC broke something, and had to be taken out.

It might come back once we get shaders.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on July 19, 2007, 07:28:05 AM
It wasn't that they broke anything, Bob added them to see if it was possible. And he did it in a rather hackish (and slow) manner in order to learn what would be needed to do in order to do a good job.

Then he never got around to putting them in properly.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: VatTas on July 19, 2007, 11:46:24 AM
What about making gun convergence distance adjustable?
I.e. ability to enter exact number of meters or some "slider" like joystick sensitivity setting?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: saruman178 on July 21, 2007, 11:17:27 AM
maybe before flight one could decide how much ammo they wana carry so one can sacrifice ammo for speed and agility

for those who think that ammo isnt that big a deal
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Antagonist on July 21, 2007, 12:48:31 PM
Quote from: VatTas;77042
What about making gun convergence distance adjustable?
I.e. ability to enter exact number of meters or some "slider" like joystick sensitivity setting?



I actually asked about that about a month back, and I'm pretty sure there were at least 2 people who asked the same before I did...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on July 21, 2007, 02:34:38 PM
Quote from: saruman178;77212
maybe before flight one could decide how much ammo they wana carry so one can sacrifice ammo for speed and agility

for those who think that ammo isnt that big a deal


The problem with that is that as your ammo was used up both values should slowly creep up towards the unladen values. And that's not easy to fix in code at all.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on July 21, 2007, 07:23:08 PM
First of all..  wow!; what a cool mod you're making guys!!.

 Once said that =) .. it has been mentioned already but I'd like more realistic collision system.  

 Ie.  Different colision wave sounds, alarm sounds and damage values (even total/self destruction). These depending on the obstacle's velocity and "mass".

 HUD goin nuts during some proportional time after collision.

 Vector direction change based on the obstacle impact's direction.

 Thanks and keep up the good work!,
 - Deckard
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: saruman178 on July 22, 2007, 10:04:12 AM
Quote from: Antagonist;77215
I actually asked about that about a month back, and I'm pretty sure there were at least 2 people who asked the same before I did...


sorry i havent looked at this thread in a while due to the fact that i havent been on these forums in a long time being on vacation and all


and kara about the coding i  understand it was just an idea
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on July 22, 2007, 10:06:33 AM
No problem. Feel free to mention ideas. Sometimes they are a lot easier to add in than you'd think.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: [dw]-hunter on July 22, 2007, 10:31:51 AM
Quote from: takashi;76964
hey, its just an option.  maybe even a "switch on burst fire" for newbies who havent learned how to conserve shots, or for pros who want to look hard-core with perfect bursts!


Pros dont need fancy addons to look hard-core. All a pro really needs is basic FS2 flight controls. Pitch, Yaw, Banking, Accellerator, Decellerator, and Afterburners, thats all you need to kick everyones asses. Glide really isnt neccessary if your any good. :p
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: grzmot on July 22, 2007, 10:47:36 AM
maybe add ability to shoot from carrier cannons. As we land on carrier player can change through carrier cannons and shoot. smth like in BF1942 navy ships
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: [dw]-hunter on July 22, 2007, 10:48:55 AM
lol, people, this game is about flying a fighter, not being in turrets.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: illmatic112 on July 22, 2007, 08:51:43 PM
Don't know if this has already been said but I'd like to have the ability to deactivate systems or enter into a low power mode where only comms and passive dradis are active. While in this mode other fighters would have to be witin 150 meters in order to pick you up on dradis or target you. The downside is you would be a sitting duck as your ship powers back up.

This could be useful in missions where your ship is damaged and you have to hide and wait for a recovery raptor or you could lie in wait for a cylon patrol to pass then jump them from behind. Also with some type of controllable power system you could have situations where your power system is damaged and you can deactivate non essenstial systems to keep your viper flying or shut down just prior to a emp blast to keep your systems from getting fried.

Someone also mentioned a fuel system. I think this would be cool because you could have a situation where your fuel line gets shot out by a cylon raider and you now have a limited supply of fuel and the pressure is on to make it back to galatica for refuel.
Title: thurster
Post by: badaa on July 25, 2007, 08:58:33 PM
if it hasnt been brought up i like to be able to
change truster direction faster and smoother because
when i use them it seems to delay and is somewhat jerky  
and stuttery .
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: [dw]-hunter on July 25, 2007, 10:13:46 PM
Can people please read the thread before posting? Saying your sorry because you refuse to read the thread doesn't really give you an excuse to repeat something that has been said by 20 other people who refuse to read as well. Atleast skim through it so you have an idea of what has been suggested...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: badaa on July 25, 2007, 11:02:17 PM
Quote from: '[dw
-hunter;77485']Can people please read the thread before posting? Saying your sorry because you refuse to read the thread doesn't really give you an excuse to repeat something that has been said by 20 other people who refuse to read as well. Atleast skim through it so you have an idea of what has been suggested...


bite me
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: [dw]-hunter on July 26, 2007, 02:51:07 AM
I wasnt talking to you, dumbass...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on July 26, 2007, 03:52:45 AM
Quote from: '[dw
-hunter;77489']I wasnt talking to you, dumbass...


But I'm talking to you.  You don't need to talk like a pro to sound like an ass.  The frakkin thread is 12 pages long and who gives a rat's ass if your sensibilities are bruised when someone happens to ask a dupe question in a reasonable manner.  This thread hasn't graduated to a canon FAQ so there isn't even any reasonable netiquitte expectation to have everyone read stale posts over 5 months old.  Kara was the OP, he's a team member, he seems just fine with reasonably asked dupes.  Not your forum to run.

Your ridiculous attitude tempts me to match the level of ridiculous and make my audition to the team as a coder: an AI extension that hunts down any trace of you in MP, automatically sets your ammo to three rounds, no missiles, places you 50 meters in front of someone, with your speed/direction slaved to them and hull integrity to about 5%. every. time. you. join. or respawn.  :lol:    I'm not 100% positive, but I think it can be done without breaking everything else.  It would slow things down a little though.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: takashi on July 26, 2007, 03:55:50 AM
i think you could do that with scripting instead of going and messing with the code.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cl1nt on July 26, 2007, 07:32:06 AM
Quote from: Enki;77494
But I'm talking to you.  You don't need to talk like a pro to sound like an ass.  The frakkin thread is 12 pages long and who gives a rat's ass if your sensibilities are bruised when someone happens to ask a dupe question in a reasonable manner.  This thread hasn't graduated to a canon FAQ so there isn't even any reasonable netiquitte expectation to have everyone read stale posts over 5 months old.  Kara was the OP, he's a team member, he seems just fine with reasonably asked dupes.  Not your forum to run.

Your ridiculous attitude tempts me to match the level of ridiculous and make my audition to the team as a coder: an AI extension that hunts down any trace of you in MP, automatically sets your ammo to three rounds, no missiles, places you 50 meters in front of someone, with your speed/direction slaved to them and hull integrity to about 5%. every. time. you. join. or respawn.  :lol:    I'm not 100% positive, but I think it can be done without breaking everything else.  It would slow things down a little though.


I 100% Agree with enki. Except this thread is 24 pages for me 0_o
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on July 26, 2007, 07:58:12 AM
Guys, calm down.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: saruman178 on July 27, 2007, 01:25:23 AM
Quit Fighting Kids...

O wait Kara's got it covered
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on July 27, 2007, 03:00:07 AM
Who's fighting?  Like you said Kara covered it, although I think there was already a mutually unspoken cessation of back-and-forth. :cool1:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Flaser on July 29, 2007, 07:05:35 PM
A tip to newcomers:

Search is SUPER.

Search is your friend.

Thou shall use search before asking stupid questions.

PS.: If you're answering the same questions over and over again, you may as well put the answers in a FAQ thread. I'm not a regular here, so I can't do that.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on August 10, 2007, 01:59:57 PM
Could be good idea to add some few raider/viper wreckage ships in the game?.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Sparky on August 10, 2007, 10:19:41 PM
Also, I hear that there will scenes with TOS type Cylons and basestars in Razor.  I hope that we'll be able to see some of those in some historical missions in BTRL.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: {PHSN}Snake_Eyes on August 11, 2007, 08:34:38 AM
Any chance of getting alternate skins for ships? Heres the new Hasbro Black Mark II viper (http://www.hasbro.com/common/images/products/34871cd8fe8_main400.jpg)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on August 11, 2007, 08:57:57 AM
Quote from: {PHSN}Snake_Eyes;78282
Any chance of getting alternate skins for ships? Heres the new Hasbro Black Mark II viper http://www.hasbro.com/common/images/products/34871cd8fe8_main400.jpg

Scar already is an alternate skin for the standard raider so the game does support it.

Whether our texturers will have time to make such skins is another matter. Of course if a 3rd party does a good job of making them I doubt they'll be much objection to having them.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Lt. Cannonfodder on August 11, 2007, 09:41:31 AM
Simple paintjobs like that are fairly easy to do. You'll propably get to see a few of them in the future.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Rhexis on August 15, 2007, 06:53:35 PM
Hi I'm new to the forums here. I love the BTRL project and have a few features in mind:

With the Razor webisodes coming up, we'll get to see the first Cylon War. I'd love to see ships and missions from that era available.

In the miniseries we hear mention of a massive battle near the orbit of one of the colonies, leading us to believe that in spite of the CNP program shutting down systems the colonials still managed to fight back for a time. A 'Fall of the Colonies' campaign would be great. Your whole objective would be to slag as many toasters as possible before your battlestar group is destroyed.

When the Raptor is in assualt configuration, it shows the ability to launch volleys of missles against multiple targets. would it be possible to have multiple target lock-on in the game?

Since the Heavy Raider's forward guns rotate somewhat, would it be possible to include separate aiming and flight controls for it in-game? I think the ability to fire at a slight angle from the front and track targets without changing course would make up for the heavy raider's slow speed and large target size.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Snagger on August 15, 2007, 07:44:53 PM
Quote from: Rhexis;78476

In the miniseries we hear mention of a massive battle near the orbit of one of the colonies, leading us to believe that in spite of the CNP program shutting down systems the colonials still managed to fight back for a time. A 'Fall of the Colonies' campaign would be great. Your whole objective would be to slag as many toasters as possible before your battlestar group is destroyed.
The objectives could be to rescue or save various ships/crew that later link up with the RTF, like Crashdown, who was "a refugee from the Triton".
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Daedalus on August 17, 2007, 03:17:04 PM
Quote from: Rhexis;78476
In the miniseries we hear mention of a massive battle near the orbit of one of the colonies, leading us to believe that in spite of the CNP program shutting down systems the colonials still managed to fight back for a time. A 'Fall of the Colonies' campaign would be great. Your whole objective would be to slag as many toasters as possible before your battlestar group is destroyed.

I think that's a very good idea, Definatly something could be expanded on, as the show never covered it in any great detail.
 
Quote from: Rhexis;78476
When the Raptor is in assualt configuration, it shows the ability to launch volleys of missles against multiple targets. would it be possible to have multiple target lock-on in the game?

Like the turrets on heavy bombers in FS2, and controlable. It's a neat idea, but combat could get a little cumbersume if you had to do that.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KaraBulut on August 17, 2007, 05:25:47 PM
Changing the richoet sound and making a better mutliplayer system should do it all ;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Rhexis on August 27, 2007, 08:03:05 PM
It might be cumbersome to have divided controls for the heavy raider, so instead of going through all that trouble, we could just make the guns highly devastating. If I recall correctly the heavy raider's KEW is six barrelled, all firing simultaneously. Missles aside, if the heavy raider is threatened, it could simply go into drift mode, face down it's attacker and unleash a deadly barrage of lead (which is exactly what one did when Apollo tried to take it out early in season 2).

Also I should clarify about the raptor multilock idea. instead of cycling through individual targets to achieve lock, it would instead automatically track and lock anything in forward view, allowing a raptor to launch missles against incoming squads of raiders like in the show.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: eaterofpies on August 27, 2007, 09:40:24 PM
per player custom badges on ships in multiplayer so I can skin some small sections of ship and on only my viper (you cant do the full thing or people will just paint it black). This would allow for squadron badges, Custom ship serial numbers and pilot names and painting a mouth with big sharp pointy teeth on the front of ships . . . you get the idea.

Some method of getting game info (eg dradis(sp) data / player positions) so you can have some form of match recording / external displays for tournaments. (possibly with full demo recording stuff like quake and xwing at a later date)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on August 28, 2007, 01:54:15 AM
How about a Maelstrom map for MP, and maybe a singleplayer-standalone mission ( not that Starbuck one! ).
Dog fight ( MP) with lowered radarrange ( 500m-1km ), and a mission ( SP/MP) with one Raptor scout( with a radarrange between 2km and 4km) that is followed by Vipers.

Is that possible?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on August 28, 2007, 09:45:07 PM
Quote from: eaterofpies;78931
per player custom badges on ships in multiplayer so I can skin some small sections of ship and on only my viper (you cant do the full thing or people will just paint it black). This would allow for squadron badges, Custom ship serial numbers and pilot names and painting a mouth with big sharp pointy teeth on the front of ships . . . you get the idea.


A lot of that could be done either by using the insignia system as is or with a few changes to it.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: ghaleon on August 29, 2007, 03:16:28 AM
Speaking of the insignia system, all of the pilot avatars are colonial. How about:

- Cylon Raider eye close-up
- Cylon centurion face, 3/4 profile
- Some 'human' Cylons, such as Six
- Dirk Benedict in a goofy old-series helmet (oh, come on!)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on August 29, 2007, 06:29:42 AM
You can make them quite easily yourself... Just grab an image, crop/resize it appropriately and save as 256-colour PCX image (I don't remember the correct size right now, but use the existing avatars as models). Then drop the result in the same folder as the existing pilot images (IIRC, ../BtRL-Demo/data/pilots/images/ or somesuch).

Works fine. Same applies to squadron logos, with the exception that the size is a bit different and pure green RGB(0,255,0) is interpreted as transparent.

Like in this shining example of squad logo art...

(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/FS2_Open/6th_Caprican_Bombers_dark_base.png)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Turey on August 29, 2007, 03:24:32 PM
Quote from: Herra Tohtori;78977
pure green RGB(0,255,0) is interpreted as transparent.


Pure green is transparent in both pilot and squad images, AFAIK.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on August 29, 2007, 04:03:03 PM
Yes, but I personally do not understand why anyone would want to make partially transparent pilot image. Retail FS2 heads were partially transparent - and I never liked the ugly bastards...:p
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on August 29, 2007, 06:34:46 PM
We really ought to run another competition for pilot and squad images with the best ones getting into the 2nd patch.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: eaterofpies on August 29, 2007, 11:56:12 PM
do the squadron insignia get distributed to all players at the start of a multiplayer game?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Turey on August 30, 2007, 06:13:51 AM
Quote from: eaterofpies;79034
do the squadron insignia get distributed to all players at the start of a multiplayer game?


yup.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on August 30, 2007, 03:34:52 PM
Quote from: eaterofpies;79034
do the squadron insignia get distributed to all players at the start of a multiplayer game?


Yep. So there's no need to submit one just to have an avatar for you or your squadron in the game.

However if you just want bragging rights when it comes to multiplayer in the full game, now's your chance. :D
Title: Asteroid
Post by: Angelus on August 30, 2007, 04:17:51 PM
During a MP game i had a idea.
We played inside Scars Asteroid and it's realy cool.
How about a Mission where you play in a huge Asteroid with 2-3 large Caverns, 1 medium-sized and a few small, and all of them are connected with alot of various-sized Tunnels.
In the larger Caverns should be Buildings, Bases a.s.o. and a lot of other obstacles ( maybe in the larger Tunnels too).
In SP, the mission could be something like " jump in the area with a Raptor  ( outside the asteroid), sneak in, Destroy Target Building or Generator or something similar.

In MP you can fly only inside the Asteroid from one Cavern to another, and inside every Cavern will explode every 3-5 min a nuke, destroying everyone inside ( maybe with a alert signal to give you the chance escaping to a other Cavern )and in each Cavern you have a different amount of time until the nuke explode ( Cavern 1 every 4 min, Cavern 2 every 2min a.s.o.).
I think that would be funny.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Spork on September 02, 2007, 12:52:47 AM
Hey has anyone played AVP2? Because there was this game mode where all the humans death matched until one person died, then the person who died became alien. Then the Alien would try and kill as many marines as possible, each marine who died would also become alien, so the Alien team would slowly grow larger while the human team would grow smaller. In the end the humans would eventually be overrun and the winner would be determined by the last human standing. The Aliens had unlimited respawns btw.
So I was thinking:
What if we did the same kind of thing with Brtl? We could give everyone unlimited ammo (or a restock point somewhere) and the Cylons would just keep rushing until the Humans are killed one by one.
So everyone gets Vipers at the start, they dogfight for a bit, one person dies, becomes a Cylon, starts picking off Vipers, everyone dies.
Any takers?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on September 02, 2007, 07:35:11 AM
I suspect it's possible to make a mission like that. A little clever use of the change-ship-class SEXP should do it.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Mobius on September 02, 2007, 12:36:07 PM
In-mission cutscenes. Are you going to use them? I wanted to make an example, but... :(
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on September 02, 2007, 02:03:13 PM
Maybe, maybe not.

I tend to feel that most of the uses of them I've seen in other games are pretty strongly against FS2's Straight-to-the-action ethos.

I'll add them only if they add to the plotline and don't jar the player out of the game/leave him twiddling his thumbs waiting for them to end so he can start playing again.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: DaftShadow on September 02, 2007, 07:43:02 PM
What about a pop-up on the HUD that showed the video/in-game rendering?  This way, the player is still sitting in his ship (even controlling it), but he's got something drawing his eye that's a bit larger and easier to see than a block of text.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on September 02, 2007, 10:57:10 PM
..some of feedback on the demo that I'like to mention..:

1.- At engaging the throttle booster the skymap breaks a little.. you know.. the star dots break in vectors or segments. I've noticed that the Wing commander Saga TC has solved this problem. Just to mention this issue to you..

2.- During the game.. I can not listen any FTL wave sound when the wessels/fighters arrive and/or depart. Is it just me?..

3.- I tried the training laser weaponary on the Viper. I think the its is too big as well as the laser beam a little too wide. Did you guys considered this issue already?

That's all. Consider this as positive feedback, please.

Hope this helps.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on September 06, 2007, 07:18:43 PM
Quote
... 3.- ... I think the its is too big as well as the laser beam a little too wide...


Little rectification here. It should be.. " I think the flare is too big... "
Title: FTL effect
Post by: junction04 on September 14, 2007, 08:12:22 AM
i was watching this video,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC6LSD5lic4&mode=related&search=

and i was wondering if the final release will feature the same FTL effects as in the series instead of the wormhole effect seen here.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on September 14, 2007, 04:28:15 PM
Play the demo. In the second proper mission either go after the scout or let the miner get pummelled.

That's only the beta version of course. We hope to improve on the effect.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on September 21, 2007, 12:44:25 AM
I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned in this threads (I vaguely remember it having popped up in some other thread as a tangent), but is it possible to make it so that the projectiles fored from ships get a velocity vector with the vector of the ship firing them added onto them?

Clarification: As it is, all projectiles move at their table-defined velocity in the FRED reference frame, from the point they are fired towards the firing direction the ship was aiming for at the moment the projectile's life began, so to speak.

This causes a ridiculous effect - when you're gliding and fire a burst in right angle in relation to your actual trajectory (or vector), the rounds seem to more or less "lag" behind, since they are moving away from the vector at right angle in the FRED reference frame, or "background space", or "aether" even... which is completely wrong and screws up any intuitive aiming anyone could try to do at that situation.

The projectiles should gain the ship's vector in addition to the velocity they gain in relation to the ship that fires them, so that they then fly directly away from the ship firing them regardless of the fighter's attitude in relation to vector.

Mathematically it should be a simple vector addition, but code-wise I have know idea how complex it might end up... But it would be a good detail in weapon behaviour. :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Fish on September 21, 2007, 01:13:49 AM
I agree that Herra's proposed projectile model would be more intuitive for fighting while gliding (it would also make strafing Galactica's point-defence more difficult, as they are sheltered by the ribs). But I it might make things 'strange' in other ways (though more realistic... arcade style is just simpler). Hitting afterburners and then firing would give your bullets more velocity; shooting 180 degrees behind while gliding would make the projectiles slower (I'd like to see this combined with Turey's speeding trick :p); missiles might get confused; and using thrusters while firing could make the lead indicator inaccurate.

But hey, it could very well be much more fun this way. I'd be interested to see how it feels, if possible to do :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Turey on September 21, 2007, 01:51:03 AM
:lol:

Way ahead of you. It's already been coded and will be included in the upcoming patch. :nod:

Lead reticle will compensate for the velocity differences, missile AI has no problem, and yes, it does seem to make firing sideways in Glide more intuitive. It's also a counterbalance that should make going backwards in Glide less desirable, as such backwards gliding gets a boost in the patch with thrusters in Glide.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on September 21, 2007, 02:08:29 AM
:)





...You lot are awesome.:) :yes:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Sharrpe95 on September 21, 2007, 02:20:40 AM
Quote from: Turey;80225
:lol:

Way ahead of you. It's already been coded and will be included in the upcoming patch. :nod:

Lead reticle will compensate for the velocity differences, missile AI has no problem, and yes, it does seem to make firing sideways in Glide more intuitive. It's also a counterbalance that should make going backwards in Glide less desirable, as such backwards gliding gets a boost in the patch with thrusters in Glide.

Kind of random, don't know if it was stated but will all of the extra stuff you downloaded (like mods and campaigns) be deleted/removed once you apply the patch? Should we backup those files before we update? Any rough estimate when the patch comes out? What's being worked on besides general bug fixes? Thanks!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Turey on September 21, 2007, 05:57:31 AM
Quote from: Sharrpe95;80227
Kind of random, don't know if it was stated but will all of the extra stuff you downloaded (like mods and campaigns) be deleted/removed once you apply the patch? Should we backup those files before we update?

The patch shouldn't touch anything you downloaded independently.

Quote from: Sharrpe95;80227
Any rough estimate when the patch comes out?

Soon(TM). We're almost there, just need a few more things from Taylor, who's a busy man these days.

Quote from: Sharrpe95;80227

What's being worked on besides general bug fixes? Thanks!


Should be no harm in telling.

What's in the Patch:
Improved sounds and voices
Updated missions, including one brand new multi mission, made by yours truly.
Upgraded engine, with new features, such as thrusters in Glide and improved Glide collisions, as well as additive weapon velocity (your shots inherit your ship's velocity), and Knocking code (lets you know when someone is trying to join your game after you've started).
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Fish on September 21, 2007, 10:42:59 AM
Was there also something about stand-alone servers, or am I getting my hearsay mixed up..?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on September 21, 2007, 03:31:37 PM
That's coming in patch 2 when we switch back from a separate BtRL exe to simply using FS2_Open 3.6.10 Official.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on September 21, 2007, 07:41:20 PM
Yay! :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cl1nt on September 22, 2007, 07:12:00 AM
(Y)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: ire0003 on October 01, 2007, 06:22:40 AM
There's only one feature I want: A close release date!
Haha, but I know you guys need time to make it awesome and I trust that it will be so no more requests from me! :P
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on October 03, 2007, 05:19:35 PM
Just to mention the comment Turey made on my SP mission (The Rock).

Quote
Please note that the training weapons don't do real damage in the patch. So make sure you're only using the real weapons.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cpt. Jonathan Bebawi on October 03, 2007, 07:57:58 PM
i want to see the viper gun sound. when they pull the trigger in the show there is about .25 of a second of a strange sound and the gun fires. it is the most awesome sound and since the HW2 mod has it, then it should be really easy for u guys. and since the guns would fire up a half or quarter second after the trigger is pulled it would make things more realistic and it would make it more challenging and fun. + i looove that sound, and will be looking forward to it
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: StarSlayer on October 03, 2007, 08:51:37 PM
Well i guess we could add some sorta sound bars to the hud, that would probably be the only way we could allow you to see the sound...

*Wraps up being a dick*

I believe there is currently some limitations in the engine that would need to be overcome to make that happen.  We visited this issue earlier in development, the problem being it needs to happen once, when you start your burst and currently that's difficult to implement with how FS2 handles weapons sounds.  Though kara or turey could probably give you a better answer perhaps its already been solved by SCP.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on October 03, 2007, 11:44:03 PM
Quote from: StarSlayer;80748
Well i guess we could add some sorta sound bars to the hud, that would probably be the only way we could allow you to see the sound...

*Wraps up being a dick*

I believe there is currently some limitations in the engine that would need to be overcome to make that happen.  We visited this issue earlier in development, the problem being it needs to happen once, when you start your burst and currently that's difficult to implement with how FS2 handles weapons sounds.  Though kara or turey could probably give you a better answer perhaps its already been solved by SCP.


Is it possible to assign the sound to another "virtual fake" weapon that is un-Freddable?  Then when the guns trigger is pulled the "virtual fake" weapon plays its sound for a quarter sec then stops  and the main gun just fires after a delay of a quarter second. I haven't looked at any of that code so the implementation of that might be TFH and I have no idea if weapons can be made un-Freddable at all.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cpt. Jonathan Bebawi on October 04, 2007, 06:38:31 AM
i seriously believe that this sound is imperative to recreate the feel of the vipers. it gives them a personality.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Josh_88 on October 04, 2007, 05:01:09 PM
like starslayer said, there are limitations to the FS2 engine, at the moment, it just might not be possible to do. With the way the team has handle all the other little details though, expect it to be there someday if it can be done. The engine has new changes all the time as people figure out how to adapt it and make it do new things, half the stuff being done today wasn't even possible in FS2 days, so they may find any easy way to get that sound in there one of these days. just have to wait and see
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on October 04, 2007, 08:18:36 PM
A couple things more..

IIRC there're not guided-training missiles, is that so?. Only the non-guides javelin for the Vipers, yes?. In that case then would be cool to have training guided warheads, just to practice evasion. I think many pilots would like to play some few training missions before to get their arses kicked online. ( ..and I spose that my self could be included into that group.. lol :D )

On the second thing .. what about to make the Scar and the drone playable..? just for fun. (Read Single Player only, here)

PS: I enjoyed a close view of the MKII's cockpit in-game... guys you did an excellent job. Very cool, yeah
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on October 04, 2007, 08:22:25 PM
Scar is Playable in the MP mission Scars Playground, the Teamleader is Scar.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on October 04, 2007, 08:26:20 PM
Cool.. heheh. That's good news. What I had in mind is just the making of some space action from the Cylon's point of view in SP.

So... the more then the better :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on October 04, 2007, 08:46:33 PM
what confuses people is that there are two Scars in the game. The first is a specific ship class which is AI only. This version has improved manoeuvrability and IIRC armour in order to simulate Scar's superior flying ability. You'll meet this one in last mission of the SP campaign.

The second one is simply a reskinned standard Cylon Raider. You'll see this one in Scar's playground. Since Scar was just supposed to be a raider with better AI this is more suitable for multiplayer games as otherwise whoever flies that ship would have an advantage over everyone else. The technique of using a different texture from standard can be used in any mission however. So there's nothing stopping you assigning the Scar texture to any standard raider. Just don't let them swap the ship to something else though, it will look AWFUL! :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Turey on October 05, 2007, 01:53:06 AM
Quote from: Deckard;80792

IIRC there're not guided-training missiles, is that so?. Only the non-guides javelin for the Vipers, yes?. In that case then would be cool to have training guided warheads, just to practice evasion. I think many pilots would like to play some few training missions before to get their arses kicked online. ( ..and I spose that my self could be included into that group.. lol :D )


The training missiles are aspect-guided, just like the normal missiles.

Also, there's a multiplayer training mission in the patch.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on October 05, 2007, 08:28:48 PM
Great. Those are good news again :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: w0dk4 on October 11, 2007, 01:35:30 PM
Dedicated Server with support for a crapload of players so that we can have massive MP battles :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Turey on October 11, 2007, 04:49:04 PM
Quote from: w0dk4;81325
Dedicated Server with support for a crapload of players so that we can have massive MP battles :)


Dedicated Servers are coming with the second patch. As for the number of players, I don't think that's going up anytime soon.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on October 15, 2007, 03:14:14 PM
Some features i would like to see in BtrL: ( sorry for the bad english )

1. Larger Asteroids should only be destructible by missiles, KEWS should not      harm them (seen in the show, season 2, the Vipertraining, were Cat have to dodge asteroid fragments after Hotdog fires a Missile on the Rock).

1a. the Viper MkII should be faster (190)

2. Asteroids should be targetable with the missiles, means: they should be treated like a enemy fighter, target them, lock-on with missiles and fire...
there are a lot of controls wich are not used by BtrL( shields and a lot of other)

2a. the Viper MkII should be faster (190)

3. The missile lock-on is connected to the active target, this means i can only lock on with missiles on the target in my target reticle/indicator, this should be split up

3a. the Viper MkII should be faster (190)

4. there should be a switch/toggle wich allow you to shut-off the target indicator ingame( if i want to destroy the target without any "help",


4a. the Viper MkII should be faster (190)

5. and a toggles to power down the engines and radar
    this could be useful on MP search and destroy missions.
    By powering down the engines/radar you are invisible to other players on their radar and in this mode you should not be able to fire your weapons, they should be disabled while youre engines are powered down( KEWS and Missiles)

5a. the Viper MkII should be faster (190)

that's it for now.
Oh, have i mentioned that the Viper MkII should be faster? I think 180 or 190
is not to much, cause my favorite ship is to weak ( paper-thin armour, speed disadvantage, and maneuverability is not everything) Even with 180 speed it would be inferior to the MkVII and the Raider.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: M-562 on October 15, 2007, 06:26:12 PM
ok u made ur point, the viper needs to speeded up a bit.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on October 15, 2007, 08:25:18 PM
4 is already possible.

Options->HUD Config->Select Reticle->Off
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on October 15, 2007, 08:32:30 PM
Quote from: karajorma;81678
4 is already possible.

Options->HUD Config->Select Reticle->Off

 
right, but i have to switch always to the menu, not really to recommend during a
dogfight, it would be nice to do so during gameplay, by simply pressing,  for example: U or alt- u.
Title: sounds
Post by: servo116 on October 18, 2007, 03:16:04 AM
you need sound for the monuvering thrusters
and more realistic engine sounds and how about a real drades radar
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: StarSlayer on October 18, 2007, 03:33:22 AM
Were going to see what we can do about dradis but...

Quote from: StarSlayer;71300
It might be easy to say DRADIS Awesome we need it it but...

Actually there are quite a few questions about DRADIS that need to be considered before you can just implement it.  First and foremost would it actually work?  Sure it looks awesome, but can you actually glean the necessary tactical information in a 3 dimensional combat space to fly effectively?  The current FS2 radar, or the old XWing system, isn't very flashy but it is effective for space combat.  You need to remember DRADIS is a location/detection system made by a TV show not a aerospace engineer(or a space sim designer for that matter):p   From the views we've had of it, DRADIS is basically is limited to a forward view and 2 dimensions.  If the icons had some sort of X,Y,Z coordinate attached it could work, might be a little cerebral but it could work.  But of course in the show it does not, so were left with either A) modifying DRADIS to be tactically worthwhile or B) Dressing up the stock FS2 RADAR to looks "DRADIS esq" ie add the spinny rings, the peripherals, ect.

I for one think the latter would be the easiest and most tactically useful way of implementing it, but we will see what we can do when we get there.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Turey on October 18, 2007, 03:48:47 AM
(http://www.fsoinstaller.com/images/dradis.jpg)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Unknown Target on October 18, 2007, 04:21:00 AM
...exactly :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Speedy on October 18, 2007, 05:03:04 AM
I would like to see cracks on the cockpit glass like for instance if you get too close to a blowing up ship or something.

Could be implemented if your "this close" to a ship/asteroid exploding via a flat model or texture overlay on the cockpit and a crack sound.

Might be excessive but I think it would really make for a fun and "jumpy" experience.


Quote from: w0dk4;81325
Dedicated Server with support for a crapload of players so that we can have massive MP battles :)

Would be cool if that were implemented much later, and we could have a base-ship vs. battlestar war. (Raiders/Vipers)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on October 18, 2007, 07:51:29 AM
Quote from: servo116;81835
you need sound for the monuvering thrusters


Given that you'd hear that sound every time you touched the joystick, we really don't. It would drive you mad. :p

The show only puts the sounds in when a ship is on it's own, being seen externally and it looks pretty. The game would have to do it all the time. At which point it would get on peoples nerves.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: VatTas on October 18, 2007, 09:27:49 AM
I'd like to se following features:
1. KEW indestructible rocks (except maybe very small ones)
2. Target on ship is lost when it's behind an asteroid or rock. I can't imagine radar, that keeps lock on target, that's behind obstacle... I guess that will make things a little bit more interesting.
3. Some "ship out of control" effects. E.g. ship looses ability to turn to one side (or to use some thrusters). I guess that would be possible only in multiplayer, since AI is rather untouchable now...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on October 18, 2007, 09:36:53 AM
Quote from: VatTas;81850
I'd like to se following features:
1. KEW indestructible rocks (except maybe very small ones)


Hm, I wonder if the capital ship flag (or supercapital, can't remember) for asteroids would do the trick? IIRC there are ships (in FS2) that can't be destroyed with primary weapons or even small missiles, you need bombs or beamz for them. Dunno if it's possible to expand same flag (or same effect) for asteroids as well.


Quote
2. Target on ship is lost when it's behind an asteroid or rock. I can't imagine radar, that keeps lock on target, that's behind obstacle... I guess that will make things a little bit more interesting.


That might be decisively cool, but IMHO would need to be optionally enabled.

And, if you have AWACS (like a Raptor or few, or a Battlestar) it wouldn't disappear.


Quote
3. Some "ship out of control" effects. E.g. ship looses ability to turn to one side (or to use some thrusters). I guess that would be possible only in multiplayer, since AI is rather untouchable now...


I have drooled for more advanced damage model for quite a while as well.:naughty:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on October 18, 2007, 06:34:58 PM
Quote from: Herra Tohtori;81851
Hm, I wonder if the capital ship flag (or supercapital, can't remember) for asteroids would do the trick? IIRC there are ships (in FS2) that can't be destroyed with primary weapons or even small missiles, you need bombs or beamz for them. Dunno if it's possible to expand same flag (or same effect) for asteroids as well.


I have no idea how or even if armor works on asteroids but that's the most sensible way to approach the problem. Using the Huge flag has other considerations since the AI uses it to decide what to attack, how to strafe etc.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on October 18, 2007, 08:04:01 PM
Some few indestructible medium sized asteroids, plus stealth fighters/etc placed behind asteroids, would really be a gameplay boost, IMHO.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Wanderer on October 19, 2007, 09:26:46 PM
Quote from: karajorma;81859
I have no idea how or even if armor works on asteroids but that's the most sensible way to approach the problem. Using the Huge flag has other considerations since the AI uses it to decide what to attack, how to strafe etc.


If the asteroid is a ship then there is always the armor.tbl. And it can certainly be set to do the trick.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on October 19, 2007, 09:42:48 PM
Yeah but I meant using armor.tbl on non-ship asteroids.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Wanderer on October 19, 2007, 09:52:46 PM
Well... there are scripting hooks...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Armageddon on October 21, 2007, 10:16:02 AM
I dont know whether these ideas are possible have no experience with Fs2 but here goes...

1. if possible make it so certain parts of your ship can be damaged and that would have an effect on speed and handling. say you lost your left engine your max speed would be decreased by 1/3 and your ship would have an annoying tendency to fly to the left.

2. maybe make it so you have to buy better ships and weapons. Say at the start of the colonial campaign you only have a mk II viper and mec -A6 cannons.

3. Add different weapons like better guns and missiles.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on October 21, 2007, 11:41:43 AM
Quote from: Armageddon;81993
I dont know whether these ideas are possible have no experience with Fs2 but here goes...

1. if possible make it so certain parts of your ship can be damaged and that would have an effect on speed and handling. say you lost your left engine your max speed would be decreased by 1/3 and your ship would have an annoying tendency to fly to the left.

Might be possible with scripting. I'd like to see speed reduction based on engine damage as a code level feature though (it would need an ai_profiles flag to keep backwards compatibility of course).

Quote
2. maybe make it so you have to buy better ships and weapons. Say at the start of the colonial campaign you only have a mk II viper and mec -A6 cannons.


That's already possible at a ship types unlocking level in retail FS2 and at the level of actually having to buy each individual ship in FS2_Open 3.7 (which is what the final game is being built to run on).

However I don't think having to buy your own fighter fits in very well with the BSG universe very well so you're likely to only see this sort of thing in multiplayer.

Having performance determine which ship you fly is another matter of course. It's easy to have missions where you fly a MK II unless you've done exceptionally well in the previous mission and get given the option of flying the MK VII instead.

Quote
3. Add different weapons like better guns and missiles.

Again it's rather unBSGish so it's unlikely to be seen in the main campaign. I've got no objection to splitting multiplayer up into canon missions and a few ones where you do get non-canon weaponry to play with though.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on October 21, 2007, 02:39:15 PM
Hmm...

As far as different weapons go, it's pretty much clear that the Vipers have certain guns installed and they don't exactly swap things around, and also Mark 2 and Mk.VII most likely use the same gun, or at least exactly same rounds to make logistics easier.

But there's also the fact that even in Earth military, there are many kinds of rounds used in same weapons. Standard tracer and armor-piercing incendiary rounds and explosive rounds come to mind as possible choices for Viper guns; Standard would be, well, standard slug full metal jacket tracers with good all-round damage against medium armoured targets such as Heavy Raider and the likes.

Armor-piercing rounds with hardened tip which could be used against cap ship subsystems due to better armour penetration ability, as well as against more armoured targets that can resist standard or explosive rounds.

Explosive rounds would pack a lot of punch against very lightly armoured targets such as Raiders, or superficial systems like turrets and stuff because they mostly explode upon contact to armour surface.

Or something like that, this would be plausible at least while the Beast supports utilities for more ammo manufacturing lines...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on October 21, 2007, 05:10:46 PM
About the indestructable Asteroids:

CooperHawkes has made a little "mod", that increases the amount of KEWs and Missiles needed to destroy the Rocks.
After a little testing, i think it's much better then the default setting ingame, feels more realistic.
Take a look:

http://www.majesticsites.net/bsgpilots/index.php?topic=24.0
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Armageddon on October 22, 2007, 01:58:41 PM
Quote from: karajorma;81997
Having performance determine which ship you fly is another matter of course. It's easy to have missions where you fly a MK II unless you've done exceptionally well in the previous mission and get given the option of flying the MK VII instead.


Maybe like (i have seen a section for medals or something on the demo) or you have to be promoted to a certian rank to fly the mk VII rather than the mk II.  That would be an idea as you have to earn the right to fly different ships.

As for buying ships i think that would be an excellent idea for muiltiplayer.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: CooperHawkes on October 22, 2007, 02:14:11 PM
for sp, i think karas solution is nice enough. in the first half of the campaign you get the chance to fly the 7 by doing exceptionally good in the previous mission, in the second half you get promoted to a rank, where you can choose the ship of your likeness.

for mp.personally i dont like the CS-system of earning something (money,kills,points,ranks)to get something better. its bad for the people that cant play that much or just arent that good in playing computer games. they are forced to use a ship they eventually dont like, get owned because of that and eventually jump off the game.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Wanderer on October 22, 2007, 02:14:20 PM
In military you get assigned into a squadron. In squadron you get assigned to a ship.

IMHO... Good performance generally means you'll get awards and prestige but thats about it. Show enough bad performance - and survive - and you'll be replaced by new more eager and aggressive pilots and get delegated into ground or raptor crew.

With solid performance and some luck you might get a chance to accept or decline a transfer into a another squadron and get assigned to another fighter but still you wouldn't have an option to choose from different vipers for a mission. Campaign might just branch there (to VII squadron and to II squadron) depending on players decision.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: CooperHawkes on October 22, 2007, 02:25:49 PM
sounds nice, too.
at first i thought, hey starbuck also flies whatever she wants to fly, but after all, everyone could have been assigned to mk7s in scar, because of the better armor and the rocks flying around in an asteroid field...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on October 22, 2007, 03:24:59 PM
Quote from: CooperHawkes;82062
sounds nice, too.
at first i thought, hey starbuck also flies whatever she wants to fly, but after all, everyone could have been assigned to mk7s in scar, because of the better armor and the rocks flying around in an asteroid field...


HA! I'll take this as a affirmation that the MkII is to weak!

But for the Mission itself, yes if you playing this there have to be the MkVII.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on October 22, 2007, 07:05:02 PM
Quote from: CooperHawkes;82060
for mp.personally i dont like the CS-system of earning something (money,kills,points,ranks)to get something better. its bad for the people that cant play that much or just arent that good in playing computer games. they are forced to use a ship they eventually dont like, get owned because of that and eventually jump off the game.


The way I was thinking it would work would be slightly different from that. It would be done using the campaign system. You'd meet up with some friends to play a few games one night. You'd select the multiplayer campaign. The first mission would be a standard TvT or coop mission (or dogfight if I can figure out how to pull it off for dogfight campaigns).

After the first mission you'd be allowed to spend points on upgrading the ships you'd have available for your team in the next mission. At the end of the campaign all the points would be reset so you can't build up an advantage by gaming often.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Armageddon on October 22, 2007, 08:57:30 PM
well i like that idea and you get enough starting points for a mk II viper or (if it is included) the original cylon raider and guns maybe missiles

also another little idea is to make people more reliant on the scanner, so you can target ships but no arrow appears to tell you which way to turn and no target information basically nothing that would help you kill the target (even the little red circle which tells you where to shoot.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: VatTas on October 30, 2007, 10:03:13 AM
In FS, FS2 we had such things to worry about as shield/weapon/engine energy. We don't have shield or lasers in BTRL, so no "energy management".
So, in order to have something more to worry about in dogfight:
If you thrust at full power, use afterburner often, engine temperature increases and after some level is reached, you are unable to use afterburners, acceleration decreases or smth like that. You have to enter glide, limit thruster usage or set throtle to lower level to reduce temperature.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Vandecker on October 31, 2007, 03:30:18 AM
Thats not too bad an idea actually, it'll also get rid of those pilots who dogfight constantly on full burn.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on November 10, 2007, 01:09:21 AM
I've noticed that the engines glow for the MKII is yellowish/orange in the show. Different color glows could look great in the game, IMHO
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: ghaleon on November 10, 2007, 01:31:09 AM
It also glows cold blue. It sort of depends on the circumstance. I'm not sure, but I think it's yellow in the atmosphere.

It's true that the main story is set on the Pegasus, right? I'm pretty sure Pegasus uses exclusively Mark VIIs. Galactica was lucky enough to have Mark IIs because of its history, I think. So probably the main missions should use Mk VII by default.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: David cgc on November 10, 2007, 02:10:11 AM
I believe what happened is that the Viper engines are rendered out as yellow. During post-production of the Miniseries, they decided they preferred them blue, so adjusted it when compositing the final shots. Inertia being what it is, the 3D guys merrily continued making the Viper engines yellow, while the compositors continued changing them to blue. Eventually, the compositors got tired of doing this, or the duties went to different people who didn't know what the tradition was, or something, so the Viper engine colors began switching between yellow and blue.

So, in summery, the correct color is whatever the guys making the mod want it to be. There's no consistent method in the show.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Rainman on November 10, 2007, 09:19:32 AM
Quote from: Armageddon;81993
1. if possible make it so certain parts of your ship can be damaged and that would have an effect on speed and handling. say you lost your left engine your max speed would be decreased by 1/3 and your ship would have an annoying tendency to fly to the left.


Please do not make the ship have a tendency to turn it makes absolutely no sense. I really like the idea that hits effect the performance, and sometimes my engine slows down when it takes a hit but recovers in no time. It would be cool to actually have to deal with the loss in speed. What creates the turning tendency when an engine is blown up in the atmosphere is the aerodynamic drag it creates. There is no drag in space. Yes, this does mean that flying in atmosphere, if you turn off one on a 747's engines it won't turn to the left. I flew on a plane that flew with one engine for half the flight, and it flew straight. it could effect turn however if the engine is giving off burst of thrust in the wrong direction. That would be cool to add in but could be hard.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on November 10, 2007, 02:17:45 PM
Quote from: Rainman;83755
Please do not make the ship have a tendency to turn it makes absolutely no sense.


It makes all the sense in the world, as in "being physically correct", but whether or not that's what the team wants is a different matter altogether.


Quote
I really like the idea that hits effect the performance, and sometimes my engine slows down when it takes a hit but recovers in no time. It would be cool to actually have to deal with the loss in speed.


Agreed.

Quote
What creates the turning tendency when an engine is blown up in the atmosphere is the aerodynamic drag it creates. There is no drag in space. Yes, this does mean that flying in atmosphere, if you turn off one on a 747's engines it won't turn to the left. I flew on a plane that flew with one engine for half the flight, and it flew straight.


That's wrong. Asymmetric thrust does turn an airplane to one side, it's the airflow that keeps the plane flying relatively straight - because it's designed to fly straight, and the pilots apply appropriate counter-force to negate the engine-induced yaw motion as much as possible.

Like you mentioned, there's no atmosphere in space, so you can't use it's support to rely in having your ship travel mostly straight. It can and will fly at all attitudes in relation to velocity vector.

Aerodynamics has nothing to do with whether or not asymmetric thrust affects the attitude of an object. It's as simple as this: If the imaginary force vector (an arrow which has appropriate length and direction) OR the sum of all the force vectors affecting an object does not go throught the object's center of gravity, the forces will cause a moment upon the object as well as the typical linear acceleration, which (translated to language) means that the object will rotate.

Try it yourself. Put a model airplane or whatever object on slippery floor and push it forwards from behind, or from the tail straight forwards. It moves forwards and soon reaches a terminal velocity where the friction and pushing force are in equilibrium.

Now, try applying some force forwards from one engine's location. You'll find that the plane will yaw to the opposite direction quite intuitively. However, if you also press a side of a finger against the vertical stabilizer, you can negate the turning tendency by applying force to the stabilizer, and the plane moves more or less forwards. In airplane, there's no fingers obviously, but thrust and lift forces do the same thing nevertheless. When the vertical stabilizer turns in the airflow, it'll cause it to change it's angle of attack which will cause a lift forcethat tries to return it's AOA to neutral position in the airflow, which hopefully keeps the airplane from entering an uncontrollable yaw...

In fact, pilots who have lost the use of hydraulics have been known to manipulate the engine power settings so as to successfully fly and actually (to some extent) land airplanes... Assuming it's just hydraulics failure and not combined to engine failure, of course!

Quote
it could effect turn however if the engine is giving off burst of thrust in the wrong direction. That would be cool to add in but could be hard.


It wouldn't affect turning only - asymmetric engine failure would simply cause the ship to veer to some direction depending on the throttle setting, which could or could not be more or less easy, but definitely more realistic than your suggestion.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: ghaleon on November 10, 2007, 05:25:13 PM
Herra is right. Missing engines would cause a viper to turn for the same reason that its attitude thrusters cause it to turn. The force is not applied behind the centre of gravity, so there's a small torque.

Losing your top engine would make you turn upwards slightly. Losing your left engine would have you turn diagonally down-right. Losing your right would have you turn diagonally down-left. The pilot would have to correct for this using the attitude thrusters. I'm not sure, though - the flight computer might automatically recognize the missing engine and correct for it automatically, meaning you'd just have a speed reduction. And some probably some trouble turning in certain directions at full speed.

In the miniseries, Apollo loses one of his engines in the Mk II. He keeps control but it seems that handling becomes more complicated.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Antagonist on November 10, 2007, 05:39:18 PM
Probably because the maneuvering thruster needed to keep his Viper flying straight was close to maximum power already...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Rainman on November 10, 2007, 06:56:36 PM
You have to account for the air resistance though, your example is completely corrupted. The point is the thrusters push thrust in one direction, therefore the whole body is pushed in the other. Action-Reaction. It is very easy to keep bringing up examples but all the examples provided by now don't work. So then why doesn't the Galactica tip downwards? No one sees any lower thrusters holding it up. I do think I might have been mistaken though, because if two thrusters are put on opposite ends of a stick pointing in opposite directions the stick will spin around in a vacuum, but if i was right they would cancel out and the stick would not move. I need a more convincing case from you guys though, Examples need to work in all circumstances. I'll ask my physics teacher exactly how this works, and come back with a definite response.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: six6six on November 10, 2007, 07:52:22 PM
You dont need to ask. Just THINK! If you have and engine on the left working, but not one on the right, then the left of the plane is going to be pushed, whereas the right isn't as much. This will cause it to spin. Do it on a larger scale. What happens if you have a stick with a rocket on one end, but not the other. Does it fly forwards? No, it spins.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Antagonist on November 10, 2007, 08:46:08 PM
A body doesn't want to change its state of being, be it moving or otherwise. I'm going to explain this with an example:

Someone is throwing you a pen so it comes at you squaere without twisting or turning. You put a finger up so the left of the pen will hit it. What happens to its right? Exactly, it's going to start to spin. Why?
Because the force applied to its left was greater than the one applied to its right. Like when a Viper's side engine fails.
And don't try to prove your theory about Newtonian physics with what's been shown in BSG. There are quite a few mistakes in there.

In any case, the bucket has 4 engines (and 2 FTL drives dead center, IIRC), which are located in her upper and lower left/right. That point of yours is therefore moot.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on November 10, 2007, 09:11:17 PM
Quote from: Rainman;83826
You have to account for the air resistance though, your example is completely corrupted.


This is getting off the topic of this thread really fast, perhaps it'd be better to deal with this in the "Deal with Physics etc." thread or something... but I can assure you that it's not just air resistance that causes an airplane with lower power on one side engine(s) to yaw to that side. It's the combination of forces affecting to the airplane that result in net moment that tries to turn the aircraft.

If you look at the situation, you'll see that since the shape of the aircraft doesn't change, both sides are subjected to similar amount of atmospheric drag (or air resistance) and thus they cancel each other out as far as rotation is considered - they just affect to slow the plane down.

It's the lack of thrust on one side that causes the turning, which causes the forward pushing net force vector to bypass the center of gravity, as simple as that.

Quote
The point is the thrusters push thrust in one direction, therefore the whole body is pushed in the other. Action-Reaction. It is very easy to keep bringing up examples but all the examples provided by now don't work. So then why doesn't the Galactica tip downwards? No one sees any lower thrusters holding it up.


Most likely

A. It's center of gravity is higher up than it looks like or

B. The force vector of the thrusters points slightly downwards so that net force affects through the CoG of the ship, causing no unexpected pitch behaviour problems. Remember, we don't actually see any thruster flames, just light from them so we don't really know where exactly they are pointing at. Nothing forces them to point straight backwards in relation to ship's length axis.

Quote
I do think I might have been mistaken though, because if two thrusters are put on opposite ends of a stick pointing in opposite directions the stick will spin around in a vacuum, but if i was right they would cancel out and the stick would not move. I need a more convincing case from you guys though, Examples need to work in all circumstances. I'll ask my physics teacher exactly how this works, and come back with a definite response.


The examples provided do work in all circumstances... It's the circumstances that make the stuff act differently. In a nutshell, atmosphere helps stable airplanes move in correct attitude (ie. forwards) even if the engines produce asymmetric thrust (to certain limit - for example flying a P-38 Lightning with one engine is rather tricky business... and lift-offs with one engine only are suicide attempts) - space ships don't have this advantage. But I suggest we move this discussion to either own thread or the Physics etc. sticky thread, and keep this for the feature requests. But do ask you physics teacher how it works, that's the best way to understand - text on a screen is sadly limited means of communication so I wouldn't likely be able to explain it as well as if I could freely show examples.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on November 10, 2007, 09:45:33 PM
Momentarily back to the glow color issue...  I'd suggest orange engine glow color for the MKII and the Raptor. What you guys think on this?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: StarSlayer on November 10, 2007, 10:15:40 PM
the color varies for the MK II its blue most of the time
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on November 11, 2007, 02:54:31 AM
Quote from: StarSlayer;83842
the color varies for the MK II its blue most of the time


Yep. For example.. and eye-candy/variety factor aside, the glow thing could be helpful at reducing the amount of friendly fire in intense dogfights.

Also, I'd love to hear 3 or 4 loops of that "cheapo CASIO alarm" from the show when my fighter collides with an asteroid/fighter/wessel.. :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Bearcat on November 12, 2007, 11:06:10 PM
I did not read all 29 pages of this thread but.... will support for multiple controllers be modelled? I could never get joy 2 key to work right for me.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Felix 039 on November 15, 2007, 06:09:40 AM
the only thing i want is to have the full game as soon as possible
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on November 15, 2007, 01:53:18 PM
One thing I'd love to see into this game are Taunts. A brief generic list of voice recorded taunts available in-game via UI.

I even think this request could deserve its own poll. Throw me a Centurion's head if I'm wrong

PS: The idea has been already mentioned by Fish here (http://www.game-warden.com/forum/showpost.php?p=84066&postcount=53) though. Given that I do like this idea much, I'm just highlighting it by putting it on the features request thread.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on November 15, 2007, 04:02:50 PM
Actually Wing Commander Saga want taunts for their missions so it seems fairly likely we'll get them in one form or another.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: StarSlayer on November 15, 2007, 04:13:29 PM
Colonial pilot: "Choke on Kittie-litter Kilrathi scum bag!"
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on November 15, 2007, 04:22:11 PM
Heheheh.. that's cool :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Tikey on November 16, 2007, 12:10:46 AM
I wonder how Cylon taunts could be.
0111000001011011110000100111010100000111110101111000110110011001000100110011111101
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on November 16, 2007, 12:20:12 AM
Could be a combination of voice, synthesis filter and the wave sound you hear in the show when Cylons manage that computer panel in the BaseStar.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: StarSlayer on November 16, 2007, 12:48:29 AM
The ear splitting, screaching cry of a 56K dial up
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Sparky on November 16, 2007, 02:07:42 AM
Quote from: Tikey;84276
I wonder how Cylon taunts could be.
0111000001011011110000100111010100000111110101111000110110011001000100110011111101


"Oh, yeah!  well your mother runs on Vista!"
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cl1nt on November 16, 2007, 03:49:47 AM
I was having this dream last night, right.
It was all going pretty smoothly...
0110010101101010
1110101000101011
But then all of a sudden,
0101011010100120
!!!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: private_knez on November 17, 2007, 02:03:01 PM
I played the demo... I have suggestion about glide... How about when in glide mode, you slow down to a certain speed (lets say 3/4 power, or max power). So that you cant turn your afterburners, turn glide on and then just glide at that speed. I dont know really if this has been done, but i played online a little (10 minutes), and i couldnt catch a guy that was going backwards and was shooting at me...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: private_knez on November 17, 2007, 03:14:55 PM
Its me again... I just updated the demo... I see you got the thrusters to work in glide mode :). If you are going to consider my earlier suggestion dont forget about applying them to the manuvering thrusthers as well. So that you cant go to afterburner speed only by using your manuvering thrusthers.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on November 17, 2007, 08:51:35 PM
This is about the target's info shown on the HUD:

The HUD shows the hull target integrity (more or less) below the crosshair.. Why not to show what the target' speed is too?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: admiralcarin on November 20, 2007, 03:20:21 AM
Quote from: Bearcat;84049
I did not read all 29 pages of this thread

Likewise for me...I skimmed through it though and did not see this mentioned:

When you collide with objects, ships, etc. have a crack appear in the cockpit canopy (Read: HUD) as seen on the damaged Viper in the Season 2 episode "Flight of the Phoenix."
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on November 20, 2007, 06:28:06 PM
I do not remember it was mentioned either.. not sure at all tho. Add to that some few loops of that sort of casio alarm as well..

BTW, my point with the target's speed data shown below the crosshair would be:

this way pilots do not waste a second or two ( or more depending on the chamala, beer, whatever dose.. ) checking the left-lower target window.

Maybe I did not explain enough well my self.

Peace on the decks
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Devarin on November 20, 2007, 07:45:26 PM
Quote from: karajorma;57074
Bring it up with him. He might be interested. :)



I toyed with making Scar invisible in the Historical Campaign but in the end I discarded the idea. Not for game related reasons either. It was definitely doable and could even be a lot of fun.

I decided against it for a different reason. It would make Scar special. And Scar isn't. That's the whole point of him. He's just a normal Raider who is very good. If I gave Scar stealth abilities he loses that and just becomes a super-ship.

If I gave Scar the ability to stealth I'd have to give it to everything and that would ruin the game.


How about instead of giving him stealth abilities, make it so the targeting system/radar is jammed....IIR, there is some mention of it in one of the demo campaign missions...the asteroid scouting mission I believe.  That way, he's not exactly "stealth", plus it would make it more difficult (and just so it doesn't drag out into an hour long furball....have an AI pilot destroy the jamming device)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on November 20, 2007, 08:03:55 PM
It would require me making all the ships invisible unless the plot states that the radar breaks conveniently when the player faces Scar.

It's something I tried but it didn't work very well the first few times I tried it. I might give it another go now that the pressure is off though. If you notice that post was from a month or so before the demo was released :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Devarin on November 20, 2007, 08:42:12 PM
No pressure now lol.  If you can get it working...awesome (that was oe of my favorite episodes) and if not, oh well...ya gave it a go.  GL
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on November 20, 2007, 08:43:19 PM
Quote from: Devarin;84662
How about instead of giving him stealth abilities, make it so the targeting system/radar is jammed....IIR, there is some mention of it in one of the demo campaign missions...the asteroid scouting mission I believe.  That way, he's not exactly "stealth", plus it would make it more difficult (and just so it doesn't drag out into an hour long furball....have an AI pilot destroy the jamming device)


Scar was hard to find on DRADIS because of the asteroid environment/interference, not because he was jamming or stealthy.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on November 20, 2007, 09:02:10 PM
Quote from: Devarin;84676
No pressure now lol.  If you can get it working...awesome (that was oe of my favorite episodes) and if not, oh well...ya gave it a go.  GL


Why do you think we picked it for the demo? :D Not only is it an easy mission to make (we only need the Raider, MK VII, Asteroids and the miner) but it's also a fan favourite.

As for fixing the problems that plagued me earlier, that's not actually too hard. The problem was caused by both friendly and enemy ships being invisible over a certain distance away from the player. If I simply say that only the enemy ships are invisible I could fairly easily make a mission like that.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Sparky on November 26, 2007, 07:09:04 AM
Possibly stupid idea here: could you guys make it possible to perform an EVA, either in the case of an ejection or for "special" missions, like the one in Razor (I don't think that's much of a spoiler for those who haven't seen it yet.)?  I don't know what the technical obsticals would be, if any, since I have as much FREDing knowledge as Jake the Dog.  However, I figure that all one would have to do is design a "ship" with the dimensions of a suited pilot, with a very low speed, no Armour and a very weak weapon with low ammo(a sidearm).  The only advantages would be that you would be hard to hit, and would be invisible on Dradis.  Perhaps even for added realism, you would go spinning after each shot you take.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Devarin on November 26, 2007, 08:13:15 AM
That would be awesome...would add a whole new area to the game, maybe even some sort of mp mission (player shot down by toasters near a base, and human players must rescue EVA player while Vipers cover the Raptor, and Raiders are out seaching for the EVA)  Other than that, might not be too hard to model, and as far as weaponry...you'd be SOL...doubt a sidearm would do much against a Raider.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on November 26, 2007, 10:05:45 AM
It's exceedingly easy to do a rubbish hack job of an EVA mission. The question is whether or not it's possible to do a good EVA mission. :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: P-90_177 on November 26, 2007, 10:51:55 AM
Quote from: Sparky;85073
Possibly stupid idea here: could you guys make it possible to perform an EVA, either in the case of an ejection or for "special" missions, like the one in Razor (I don't think that's much of a spoiler for those who haven't seen it yet.)?  I don't know what the technical obsticals would be, if any, since I have as much FREDing knowledge as Jake the Dog.  However, I figure that all one would have to do is design a "ship" with the dimensions of a suited pilot, with a very low speed, no Armour and a very weak weapon with low ammo(a sidearm).  The only advantages would be that you would be hard to hit, and would be invisible on Dradis.  Perhaps even for added realism, you would go spinning after each shot you take.


I wouldn't want a sidearm with it. It would be useless really.

Quote from: karajorma;85078
It's exceedingly easy to do a rubbish hack job of an EVA mission. The question is whether or not it's possible to do a good EVA mission. :)


Well i don't think you'd really want to do a full mission in eva. Probably just one or two simple missions like ejecting from your viper so you have to make your way to the rescue raptor. just something pretty simple just to add that extra sense of emmersion. When i play a game like this i always want to do even the more boring generic tasks that are in the show like survey missions or CAPs that there are no problems with. At the very least in the first tim you play it you're on edge all the time. Cos the briefing you get is something like 'keep your eyes out for cylons' and then nothing happens. I know that sounds pretty boring and stupid but it just adds to the realism cos of course not every mission will lead to a major dog fight with raiders. Really i'd like to do missions like water unrep with galactica, you know just serve as the escort raptor giving the orders to the other ship for when they can dock and such.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: crypto on November 26, 2007, 01:55:55 PM
P-90_177, cant agree more, great idea
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Tikey on November 26, 2007, 02:49:18 PM
But the problem there is to see how fun it could be. I don't think it would be very entertaining to play if no one is shooting you (because if they hit you die instantly and could get very frustrating) and you only have to go from point A to point B at an amazingly slow speed without being able to do anything else than move...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: P-90_177 on November 26, 2007, 04:13:42 PM
well it depends what you're doing really. like i said there are multiple tasks that you can do, just for the simple eye candy. Mssions like that i like because they allow you to pay attention to things that you wouldn't normally. Something that i always like. In games like x-wing alliance there were always missions like just moving cargo around or scanning for contriband; something that i always felt was just as good as the dogfighting, esspecially if it was right after a particularly hard mission.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Devarin on November 26, 2007, 07:33:43 PM
Yeah....I totally agree.  Nothing would rock more than hovering in space in an EVA suit, hearing the sound of a Raider's engines zipping around in the distance looking for you, while you float beside a small asteroid, hoping a Raptor comes and gets you in time.  If I had a decent modeling program, I would give the EVA a shot.  It has been a while (used to make models for other fan mods games, but that was FOREVER and a day ago) but I'd give it a shot.  No promises, and if it works maybe a test mission, then the devs could go nuts with it.

*EDIT* After playing around in FRED for a minute, I noticed the Vipers had a pilot model in there, in an EVA flight suit.....is that a separate model/texture?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: A2597 on November 27, 2007, 01:11:44 AM
I'm picturing something else compleatly for an EVA mission....

Nuke Plant. :D

Sceanerio is something like, Cylon Base need to be taken out, but is so heavily gaurded that there is no way to really manage it with an attack, to heavy of a cost...so the decision was made to do a raptor drop...pop in, drop you off as close as possible, pop out. During this, a battlestar pops in further away to distract them. you then get a massive battle going on, and you have to fly through the chaos and plant the nuke, then get back out to a safe zone, and watch the fireworks... :D

(I'm thinking the scene with Sheridan in Thirdspace here)

Sooo much to watch while the fight goes on...and a sence of urgancy instilled by seeing vipers being blown away RIGHT next to you. (Which also means DANGER) :D

would be alot of scripting...unless you just make the player invincible or something....
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Sparky on November 27, 2007, 01:13:24 AM
Quote from: P-90_177;85080
I wouldn't want a sidearm with it. It would be useless really.


Not if you hit the raider in the glowing red eye!:p
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: P-90_177 on November 27, 2007, 01:16:45 AM
lol. Well yeah. Unfortunately it's hard enough hitting a raider in a viper with all guns blazeing...... (ok i think it's easy but my point stands)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: ghaleon on November 27, 2007, 04:12:18 AM
Quote from: P-90_177;85144
lol. Well yeah. Unfortunately it's hard enough hitting a raider in a viper with all guns blazeing...... (ok i think it's easy but my point stands)


Okay. Just for that, you have to use the sidearm. :P

Nuke plant would be really fun, but wouldn't they use a marine raptor instead? And wouldn't it give away a radiological alarm to the Cylons?

I can't really see the Colonials deliberately sending people out into space with just suits. They usually use raptors for that kind of thing, even repairs.

Plus, how would you move? Unless you had a jet pack... and if so, fuel would probably be a big concern...

I do like the idea of just drifting EVA and watching the battle, like Lee in Res pt II. But I think it would have to involve ejecting.

Although non-combat raptor and blackbird missions could be done pretty convincingly.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Devarin on November 27, 2007, 04:19:55 AM
But that gets back to my idea on a rescue mp mission.....one lone nugget floating in space in an EVA suit after evac....and floats along trying to hide among asteroids while viper wings and a raptor or two are scrambled to rescue
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Turey on November 27, 2007, 04:47:05 AM
Quote from: ghaleon;85151

And wouldn't it give away a radiological alarm to the Cylons?


Unlikely. See the end of Season 1, where Boomer drives the raptor with nuke right into the bay. Also, things like the miniseries seem to indicate that radiological alarms only go off when the nuke is primed for launch, or else they would have known the raider had nukes before his wing compartment opened.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Josh_88 on November 27, 2007, 10:21:29 AM
Quote from: ghaleon;85151

Plus, how would you move? Unless you had a jet pack... and if so, fuel would probably be a big concern...

I do like the idea of just drifting EVA


if you've seen razor/most sci-fi  space movies with people in suits, there are some sort of limited thrusters on the packs attached to the suits. and it would follow the same principle as hitting a golf ball on the moon, once you have momentum in a direction you could just keep drifting that way. no need to use fuel, except for small adjustments
Title: Shot effects?
Post by: VatTas on November 27, 2007, 10:24:04 AM
Some ideas about effects of gun firing and hits taken:
- firing guns reduces your forward velocity, or gives you little backwards velocity instead of just shaking the ship. I guess that's rather easy to implement.
- if you get hit, let the ship inherit some momentum of the KEW round (in some degree it is implemented with missiles, right?). I guess that's rather easy to implement since vectors and velocity of KEW round are known. Well, maybe somebody already did calculations and it showed that effects are negilible?

- visual indications of hits: when your rounds hit enemy ship, you hear thud. If sound was replaced with visual indications (e.g. rather bright flash), that would be more realistic without sacrifices to fun and actually more helpfull.

Ah, and get rid of this FS electric arc effect when ship's hud integrity is low.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on November 27, 2007, 10:39:05 AM
Quote from: VatTas;85177
Visual indications of hits: when your rounds hit enemy ship, you hear thud. If sound was replaced with visual indications (e.g. rather bright flash), that would be more realistic without sacrifices to fun and actually more helpfull.



Seconded.

Also, I don't remember whether it was in this thread or some other, but a possibility to use different kinds of rounds would be pretty easy to deal with the weapons table with no code changes at all.

Having the choice between high explosive grenade rounds, armor penetration rounds without explosive hit effect (most likely depleted uranium rounds, possibly sabot ammunition - mostly for internal subsystem dispatching but also against heavily armoured targets that just shrug off surface explosions) and normal full metal jacket incendiary tracer rounds, or slugs, for massed use (with better penetration than HE rounds but less immediate damage effect on lightly armoured targets like normal Raiders).

Thus, the ammunition of choice would be different depending of targets and role of the fighter. Space superiority against Raiders would mostly use HE or slug rounds. Interceptors would definitely use the HE rounds for knocking missiles out with small shockwave... but ships fending off a wave of boarding Heavy Raiders would likely want to use AP rounds to get past of the thicker armor that would likely stop the HE or slug rounds altogether.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: P-90_177 on November 27, 2007, 11:33:33 AM
Quote from: Herra Tohtori;85181
Seconded.

Also, I don't remember whether it was in this thread or some other, but a possibility to use different kinds of rounds would be pretty easy to deal with the weapons table with no code changes at all.

Having the choice between high explosive grenade rounds, armor penetration rounds without explosive hit effect (most likely depleted uranium rounds, possibly sabot ammunition - mostly for internal subsystem dispatching but also against heavily armoured targets that just shrug off surface explosions) and normal full metal jacket incendiary tracer rounds, or slugs, for massed use (with better penetration than HE rounds but less immediate damage effect on lightly armoured targets like normal Raiders).

Thus, the ammunition of choice would be different depending of targets and role of the fighter. Space superiority against Raiders would mostly use HE or slug rounds. Interceptors would definitely use the HE rounds for knocking missiles out with small shockwave... but ships fending off a wave of boarding Heavy Raiders would likely want to use AP rounds to get past of the thicker armor that would likely stop the HE or slug rounds altogether.


Different types of round would be cool but i don't think so for the vipers. There's not really much evidence to indicate that they use different types of ammo. The raptors though would be pretty cool to have since we have no idea would sort of round they use......so a little creative initiative could be used.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on November 27, 2007, 11:54:56 AM
Quote from: P-90_177;85188
Different types of round would be cool but i don't think so for the vipers. There's not really much evidence to indicate that they use different types of ammo. The raptors though would be pretty cool to have since we have no idea would sort of round they use......so a little creative initiative could be used.



Well, there's no evidence for it but it's common sense that there would be more than one assembly line for making the rounds, especially with the logistics offered by a Mercury-class Battlestar (although I don't doubt Galactica has the capacity as well).

There's really no reason why they would not have more than one type of rounds at their disposal. Obviously it's more time/resource-intensive to make 30mm DU SABOT rounds or high explosive rounds than full metal jacket slugs, which is why their amount would be more limited, which is another feature that has been there since retail FS2 and would just need a mission designer to do it, should they see it fit.


The main reason why I'm suggesting this is that BSG does tend to offer quite a monotonous shipset at the players' disposal, if non-canon ships are not counted. Even with two times as many non-canon playable ships than in canon, the amount of playable ships is still rather low. And to hope getting twice as much playable ships than in canon is quite a stretch IMHO. To further add to the problem of making versatile gameplay, the ships seem to have rather fixed weapon mounts, very unlike in FS2 where primaries are swapped on a whim (poor deck workers, I can't imagine how much they have hated Alpha One for almost always changing the default mission loadout...).

So making it possible to at least use different ammunition loadout would be one of the easiest ways to expand the roles of same craft. I have nothing against non-canon ships either, but I would still want to see some more versatile weapon possibilities for same ship.:)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on November 27, 2007, 03:22:48 PM
Now you mention different types of ammo.. this reminds me of the Heavy Raider in "The Farm" show. "Sharon II" was firing at the Centurions without to inflict much damage though. This could be translated here as the HR may fire a big amount of rounds per second, which have smaller "penetration power".
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on November 27, 2007, 04:14:24 PM
Or it was a lower caliber weapon like 7.62 or 12.7 mm MG instead of the powerhouse autocannons sticking out from the front of that thing?

Can't remember if it was the main weapon of the ship firing, though...:nervous:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on November 27, 2007, 08:44:18 PM
Hmm..neither do I.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on November 27, 2007, 10:14:56 PM
They are supposedly the main weapons and thus their effectiveness seems to be questionable at least against Centurions. Or perhaps it was a n00b Cylon brain at the stick and it only scored glancing hits at the Centurions, or perhaps it was confused by conflicting orders to kill it's Cylon brethren, ordered by none other than other Cylon...:nervous:

Also, the two barrels on the middle seem somewhat bigger than the four on corners - perhaps 30mm vs. 20mm...? Although looking at the size of that thing, the barrels look more like some bloody 105mm or even 120mm cannons... :nervous:

I think the effect on the Centurions was much more a plot device (and more  than actually thoroughly thought realistic idea of what happens to humanoid machines when they are fired with even 20mm (never mention 30mm or higher caliber) high velocity projectiles, regardless of their armour capacities (unless they are made of unobtainium).

That said (and slightly veering off-topic), the firing pattern of the weapons was strange too. The two middle ones were kinda alternating but not consistently (sometimes they fire simultaneously, sometimes not), and the four guns on corners seemed to be firing along no real pattern... Well, see for yourselves.

(http://i5.tinypic.com/6opulhi.gif)

If I may voice my opinion, it could be best to make the four corner weapons of one (slightly smaller) caliber and the two on the middle heavier guns.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: TitanWulf on December 02, 2007, 10:28:53 PM
id like to be able to dock into the galatica for reloading and stuff or the pegasus that would be very good :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: P-90_177 on December 02, 2007, 10:39:57 PM
well there is the repair and rearm order in the comms.....personally i'd think it would be more realistic if you had to dock with a battlestar to do it. no idea how you would though.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: FusionStorm on December 02, 2007, 10:42:43 PM
Quote from: P-90_177;85627
well there is the repair and rearm order in the comms.....personally i'd think it would be more realistic if you had to dock with a battlestar to do it. no idea how you would though.


Well, I've got only a basic knowledge of FRED2, but that sounds very easy to do a hack-job on. I'll let Kara tell how he knows how to do it. :p
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: ghaleon on December 02, 2007, 11:53:48 PM
Quote from: VatTas;85177
Some ideas about effects of gun firing and hits taken:
- firing guns reduces your forward velocity, or gives you little backwards velocity instead of just shaking the ship. I guess that's rather easy to implement.
- if you get hit, let the ship inherit some momentum of the KEW round (in some degree it is implemented with missiles, right?). I guess that's rather easy to implement since vectors and velocity of KEW round are known. Well, maybe somebody already did calculations and it showed that effects are negilible?


I'm pretty sure both of these would be really negligible for anything but missiles. I don't think it's worth making the computer spend time doing calculations that are so small the numbers just get rounded off anyway :P

For firing the forward guns, the effect would only really be noticeable with sustained firing and engines off...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: P-90_177 on December 03, 2007, 12:40:50 AM
Quote from: VatTas;85177
Some ideas about effects of gun firing and hits taken:
- firing guns reduces your forward velocity, or gives you little backwards velocity instead of just shaking the ship. I guess that's rather easy to implement.
- if you get hit, let the ship inherit some momentum of the KEW round (in some degree it is implemented with missiles, right?). I guess that's rather easy to implement since vectors and velocity of KEW round are known. Well, maybe somebody already did calculations and it showed that effects are negilible?

- visual indications of hits: when your rounds hit enemy ship, you hear thud. If sound was replaced with visual indications (e.g. rather bright flash), that would be more realistic without sacrifices to fun and actually more helpfull.

Ah, and get rid of this FS electric arc effect when ship's hud integrity is low.


I don't want any change of velocity when you fire. that would just be too real. Personally i'd like the visual indication as well as a sound for hits.

As for the change of momentum when you get hit, i wouldn't really want this, but i wouldn't mind having the ship rocked a fair bit by it. I also wouldn't mind if the ship became slightly harder to control the more damage you take.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on December 03, 2007, 01:05:02 AM
It is reported an A-10 will slow by about 5 knots airspeed if the main 30MM cannon is fired continuously until out of ammo.  Those are huge, heavy, armor piercing rounds fired at about 4000 rounds per minute.  

Vipers have a much lower rate of fire, even in a MkVII with three guns, a knot or two knocked off velocity is lost in the electrical noise of a throttle position.  Especially if you are using the CNP "absolute" functionality of the throttle.  Then your flight control system is auto compensating without you even knowing.

As for getting hit, not much of the energy actually transfers from the round to the ship in a non-critical hit.  Popping holes in fuselage and wing skin is easy and a pointed round will just cut through.  Critical hits already are represented by killing the ship when out of hull integrity -- and dead is dead.  Which way the debris field pinwheels is pretty academic at that point.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Backslash on December 03, 2007, 06:19:01 AM
Quote from: VatTas;85177
Some ideas about effects of gun firing and hits taken:
- firing guns reduces your forward velocity, or gives you little backwards velocity instead of just shaking the ship. I guess that's rather easy to implement.
- if you get hit, let the ship inherit some momentum of the KEW round (in some degree it is implemented with missiles, right?). I guess that's rather easy to implement since vectors and velocity of KEW round are known. Well, maybe somebody already did calculations and it showed that effects are negilible?
- visual indications of hits: when your rounds hit enemy ship, you hear thud. If sound was replaced with visual indications (e.g. rather bright flash), that would be more realistic without sacrifices to fun and actually more helpful.

2 and 3 are already doable, just need some table editing.
2 involves the weapon having "$Mass" ...though let me tell you, it is Very Annoying getting hit by a bunch of shots with this feature.  I can only imagine the horror at KEW fire rates! :D It does make for an interesting special-use weapon though, sort of like the opposite of a tractor beam.  Great for disrupting bombers making their runs.  Hmm... perhaps a minuscule amount could be interesting though.  Lemme go try it.
3 just needs a "$Impact Explosion" animation.  Somebody go make a cool one :p
1 probably wouldn't be too hard to code, but as other people have said, it wouldn't be so noticeable or desirable, so we can pretend the flight computer compensates for it.  Though, for OTHER Freespace mods, it might be interesting to try out for experimental Really Big guns!

I love the idea of multiple ammo types, ever since good old Crimson Skies.  You could even just make it as 3 (or however many) separate primary banks located in the same place, to toggle between.  Sure it may not be quite canon, but it sure would be fun. :yes:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Reven Feyd on December 03, 2007, 06:25:08 AM
Difficulty?

See, I'm a sucky pilot with this game and I know this.  I can't get past the second mission of the demo on easy.  I just attempted it and in 10 minutes of flight I had 53 percent hull and no Raiders down.  I suck.  So, would another easier level of difficulty be possible?  You could call it - Noob Difficulty or be as insulting as you'd like.  I love this game and it is fun to sit in the seat of a Viper - I would also like to see where the story goes but it seems my skills have gotten worse and not better with continued play - so perhaps an easier difficulty.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: FusionStorm on December 03, 2007, 06:31:06 AM
Quote from: Reven Feyd;85669
Difficulty?

See, I'm a sucky pilot with this game and I know this.  I can't get past the second mission of the demo on easy.  I just attempted it and in 10 minutes of flight I had 53 percent hull and no Raiders down.  I suck.  So, would another easier level of difficulty be possible?  You could call it - Noob Difficulty or be as insulting as you'd like.  I love this game and it is fun to sit in the seat of a Viper - I would also like to see where the story goes but it seems my skills have gotten worse and not better with continued play - so perhaps an easier difficulty.



I haven't played in a while, but I'm pretty sure there is a "Very Easy" option in settings.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on December 03, 2007, 08:32:04 AM
Quote from: FusionStorm;85628
Well, I've got only a basic knowledge of FRED2, but that sounds very easy to do a hack-job on. I'll let Kara tell how he knows how to do it. :p


Not hard at all. We'd simply have to select an area of the Galactica's landing strip as resupply and have the game replenish your ammo if you land there. The only complication is making a return time so that you can't simply sit there firing automatically replenishing missiles. :D

Might be nice to be able to add code so that the game could do that without having to do it in FRED for ever single mission that involves resupply though. :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Reven Feyd on December 03, 2007, 08:54:03 AM
Quote from: FusionStorm;85670
I haven't played in a while, but I'm pretty sure there is a "Very Easy" option in settings.


Sorry, that was on the very easy option.  Geez...I am a total nugget.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on December 03, 2007, 10:08:13 AM
At this stage I think it's probably easier if you just edit the tables to make it easier for yourself.

What specifically give you problems?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Reven Feyd on December 03, 2007, 05:09:03 PM
Mostly, as a Pilot I can get in close enough say in a range of 300...though I can only keep the raider in the center of the screen for about 2 seconds before I lose it.  So I can maybe get in one hit.  So either a slower raider or bullets that do more damage would be great.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: P-90_177 on December 03, 2007, 05:41:15 PM
Quote from: Reven Feyd;85712
Mostly, as a Pilot I can get in close enough say in a range of 300...though I can only keep the raider in the center of the screen for about 2 seconds before I lose it.  So I can maybe get in one hit.  So either a slower raider or bullets that do more damage would be great.


what are you using to play? Joystick? Keyboard? Mouse?

If it's the mouse have you tried increasing the sensitivity?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Reven Feyd on December 03, 2007, 07:39:15 PM
Well, I started on a analog controller but now I'm using a logitech Extreme 3D pro which I like because it feels like flying.  Though the stick is hyper responsive to the game.  So it is hard to draw a bead on the raider I'm trying to hit.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: P-90_177 on December 03, 2007, 08:20:44 PM
Quote from: Reven Feyd;85724
Well, I started on a analog controller but now I'm using a logitech Extreme 3D pro which I like because it feels like flying.  Though the stick is hyper responsive to the game.  So it is hard to draw a bead on the raider I'm trying to hit.


i think you just may need a little more practice. or perhaps switch to the mouse if you can't get to grips with the stick. some people find it easier even though it takes some of the realism away.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Reven Feyd on December 04, 2007, 03:20:35 AM
I found a way to have my cake and eat it too...it seems the old cheatcodes from FS2 work on Beyond the Red Line - so I was able to play the second mission.  I still lost two pilots and it took me 42 minutes but I got through it.  It also helped me practice some.  I noticed I can't hit when I get close.  I had to stay 500 to 600 k away and adjust my firing arc to hit.  So, yeah, I need a ton of practice but I feel better now and I am totally enjoying the game.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Sparky on December 04, 2007, 04:46:52 AM
Quote from: karajorma;85674
Not hard at all. We'd simply have to select an area of the Galactica's landing strip as resupply and have the game replenish your ammo if you land there.


Or better yet on the Pegasus you could be able land in either one of the alcoves on the outside of the flight pods to reload.:cool1: That way you could retreat, reload, and get back in the fight much quicker.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Tikey on December 04, 2007, 09:57:05 AM
Quote from: Reven Feyd;85761
I found a way to have my cake and eat it too...


The cake is a lie :lol:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Reven Feyd on December 04, 2007, 10:11:38 AM
Quote from: Tikey;85784
The cake is a lie :lol:


Admiral sir, it may be, but I need the practice this way.  Plus, most of you here would make acctual viper pilots.  Me, on the other hand...I'd be the guy in the back of the screen wishing he was a Viper Pilot.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cl1nt on December 04, 2007, 10:38:08 AM
The cake is a lie, but the cube is forever! <3
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on December 05, 2007, 01:11:06 PM
This is about CMs (Counter meassures)..

Actually, these look a little confusing in the game; IMHO.

Hmm.. Maybe removing the trail and attaching some moderately intense red flare would make them look cooler.

Just my 2 cents
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: P-90_177 on December 05, 2007, 03:32:12 PM
Quote from: Deckard;85864
This is about CMs (Counter meassures)..

Actually, these look a little confusing in the game; IMHO.

Hmm.. Maybe removing the trail and attaching some moderately intense red flare would make them look cooler.

Just my 2 cents


well they look accurate based on what was seen in the mini-series so i doubt they'll be changed.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on December 05, 2007, 10:44:04 PM
Quote from: P-90_177;85866
well they look accurate based on what was seen in the mini-series so i doubt they'll be changed.


Recheck Pilot 1 and say that again..

Best,
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Jackäss on December 06, 2007, 12:46:39 AM
Probably already been suggested, but kamikaze runs! I know (at least, I think) that fighter-to-fighter collision has been implemented, but how does fighter-to-capital ship collision work? As seen in Scattered, pretty sizable damage can be made to a battlestar if any ship makes it past the flak on a kamikaze run. It sounds rather satisfying to be able to fly a raptor (or heavy raider) through the flak perimeter (which I'm sure would be quite a feat itself) and slam into the side of an enemy capital ship. Sounds a bit like griefing, perhaps, but that doesn't mean it's any less of a viable tactic.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on December 06, 2007, 01:03:53 AM
If a battlestar can withstand multiple nukes, how bad can the damage from a fighter or even a heavy raider be?  Lots of tylium fireball sure, but that's just scorching the paint.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Jackäss on December 06, 2007, 01:09:36 AM
Well, a heavy raider has been proven to be tough enough to rip through the hull and crash land (relatively) intact in a flight pod, so I'd say they can cause some degree of damage. Beyond the boring "fly-on-a-windshield" minus one health point, at least. Remember, these things are dozens of tons of pure hard metal going at ridiculously fast speeds. That's got to hurt a bit.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Tikey on December 06, 2007, 01:14:06 AM
Quote from: Jackäss;85897
Well, a heavy raider has been proven to be tough enough to rip through the hull and crash land (relatively) intact in a flight pod, so I'd say they can cause some degree of damage. Beyond the boring "fly-on-a-windshield" minus one health point, at least. Remember, these things are dozens of tons of pure hard metal going at ridiculously fast speeds. That's got to hurt a bit.

Actually, the heavy raider passed through the window which covered the pod.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Sparky on December 06, 2007, 01:36:09 AM
And for those of us whove seen Razor:

[spoiler]
A number of Cylon Raiders fly strait into Pegasus, and she seemed to take the beating fairly well.
[/spoiler]
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Jackäss on December 06, 2007, 01:42:36 AM
Quote from: Tikey;85898
Actually, the heavy raider passed through the window which covered the pod.

D'oh, you're right! Haven't seen that episode in ages, I stand corrected.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on December 06, 2007, 08:38:53 AM
Kamikaze is a standard feature of the engine since retail days. For capships as well as fighters. If we need it *cough*Exodus, Pt II*cough*, we already know how to do it. :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Arsenal on December 06, 2007, 11:57:33 AM
Could we have normal radar in a front 45 degree cone and short ranged or no radar for the rest?  It would allow Scar like ambushes to occur but still give you radar to ID targets at long range when entering combat.  Would just make it a little bit more like the series for me.

It might be impossible to do with the engine or too hard for your few coders, I wouldn't know.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: P-90_177 on December 06, 2007, 12:40:45 PM
Quote from: Arsenal;85944
Could we have normal radar in a front 45 degree cone and short ranged or no radar for the rest?  It would allow Scar like ambushes to occur but still give you radar to ID targets at long range when entering combat.  Would just make it a little bit more like the series for me.

It might be impossible to do with the engine or too hard for your few coders, I wouldn't know.


i would actually like that. at the minute you can see exactly where the cylons are at all times. it would be a bit better if you could only see everything forward of you just to make the game just a little bit tougher. You'd also have to rely on your wingmates more with comments like 'he's on your six' and so forth.......i know they already do that but still.

The only thing is that despite what it looks like in show dradis is suposed to give a 360 degree view on all ships in all directions.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: P-90_177 on December 06, 2007, 01:09:25 PM
You know i've been kind of wanting to ask this for a while now but I was very aware that not everyone had seen razor so:

Any idea if you guys will be able to do a scorpion shipyard? I'm very aware at how complex it is so while i very much hope you'll be able to do it i've not really got my hopes pinned to it. I also would love to see those few civvie transports that were seen in it and the cylon comm relay.

Knowing the fantastic team you guys have going i'm sure you've already considered doing alot of that but i just thought i'd ask what i'm sure many are thinking.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Josh_88 on December 06, 2007, 01:44:46 PM
not to naysay (I too would love to see it) but dont get your hopes up on scorpion, given the amount of time its on screen and how much of it we dont see or dont see in any real detail, it would be impossibly hard to to. or so I would imagine. There are a few good shots that have been posted around here, but theres just not much material on it. that said.... prove me wrong team :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: P-90_177 on December 06, 2007, 01:55:51 PM
Quote from: Josh_88;85949
not to naysay (I too would love to see it) but dont get your hopes up on scorpion, given the amount of time its on screen and how much of it we dont see or dont see in any real detail, it would be impossibly hard to to. or so I would imagine. There are a few good shots that have been posted around here, but theres just not much material on it. that said.... prove me wrong team :)


yeah i know. that's why i'm not getting my hopes up but this team seems to know how to work miracles so there.s always a chance.:nod:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cl1nt on December 06, 2007, 02:21:44 PM
Chances are sooner or later the person who modelled Scorpion Shipyards for the show will post some pictures/renders of the full model as either promo or for their portfolio.

And when that happens... ;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on December 07, 2007, 03:15:18 AM
IIRC, there's not any sound wave made for the Cylon missile fire event.. is that so?

PS: One looks back and realizes on how many good things have been included into this game as well as how many other ones are on the lab tables! ;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Rogue420 on December 07, 2007, 04:40:32 PM
I'm wondering if you guys are able to fix the bank problem on the xbox 360 controller? It will only let me assign bank on the right stick on the up/down axis and not the left/right axis. any ideas?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on December 13, 2007, 03:46:29 PM
Now that i have a moment.. I was remembering of a cool MP game Angelus and me played some few weeks ago...

The thing I tried was to use the ascaroid' surface to finally ambushing him. Or just to evade him.. so I also did "Starbuck running her ass off with Scar pursuing her behind" thing.. and you should give that a try, believe me. Was pretty fun ;)

The point is that I'd die for more complex asteroid surfaces.. sort of laberynth.. you know. This way these kind of games could even deserve their own game modality in MP.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on December 13, 2007, 04:11:53 PM
Quote from: Deckard;86525
Now that i have a moment.. I was remembering of a cool MP game Angelus and me played some few weeks ago...

The thing I tried was to use the ascaroid' surface to finally ambushing him. Or just to evade him.. so I also did "Starbuck running her ass off with Scar pursuing her behind" thing.. and you should give that a try, believe me. Was pretty fun ;)

The point is that I'd die for more complex asteroid surfaces.. sort of laberynth.. you know. This way these kind of games could even deserve their own game modality in MP.


Yes, that was a really good game. Sadly, most of the players avoid to fight close to the surface or inside the Asteroids.

But Deckard's idea is great. It would be a little tricky to make a complex surface AND keep a low poly count, 'cause games with 8 players can be very laggy with one or more Asteroids of that size.
But there is nothing the DEVs can't do, right?;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on December 13, 2007, 06:12:47 PM
I think we'd want to make sure our pof exporting software is working better before we even considered making an even higher poly asteroid. That one is full of holes as it is.

The other thing that would need to be fixed would be the respawn code. If we can get it to allow respawns closer to the surface it might make it worth doing (sure we can fake it in FRED but that's not exactly an optimum solution).
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Jackäss on December 13, 2007, 11:57:03 PM
There needs to be a death star trench run mission.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: P-90_177 on December 14, 2007, 12:34:11 AM
Quote from: Deckard;86525
Now that i have a moment.. I was remembering of a cool MP game Angelus and me played some few weeks ago...

The thing I tried was to use the ascaroid' surface to finally ambushing him. Or just to evade him.. so I also did "Starbuck running her ass off with Scar pursuing her behind" thing.. and you should give that a try, believe me. Was pretty fun ;)

Quote from: Angelus;86526
Yes, that was a really good game. Sadly, most of the players avoid to fight close to the surface or inside the Asteroids.


Really? Their loss. I'd always kill for a good game like that.

Quote from: Jackäss;86545
There needs to be a death star trench run mission.


Please tell me you're kidding.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on December 14, 2007, 12:42:45 AM
Quote from: P-90_177;86546
Really? Their loss. I'd always kill for a good game like that.

Ok, m8. See Ya in space...

Quote from: P-90_177;86546
Please tell me you're kidding.


Well, a Death star trench run mission requires a Death star. And X-Wings. And Tie Fighters. And Star Destroyers. And Mon Cal Cruisers. And the Millenium Falcon. And Laser cannons. And Proton torpedos. Have i forgot something?

OR maybe he meant something like:

a mission like "Fly at full burn through a Canyon on a huge Asteroid, towards a Cylon Base/ refinery/ whatsoever, avoid getting killed by fixed emplacements and a lot of Raiders, drop a missile in a vital area, bug out and see the whole thing blow up".
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Turambar on December 14, 2007, 01:15:53 AM
Quote from: Jackäss;86545
There needs to be a death star trench run mission.


swc.hard-light.net
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: P-90_177 on December 14, 2007, 01:27:44 AM
Quote from: Angelus;86547
Ok, m8. See Ya in space...


Maybe one day. unfortunately for now i can't connect to any servers. My uni's firwall blocks it.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on December 14, 2007, 01:56:56 AM
Quote from: Angelus;86547
Ok, m8. See Ya in space...




Well, a Death star trench run mission requires a Death star. And X-Wings. And Tie Fighters. And Star Destroyers. And Mon Cal Cruisers. And the Millenium Falcon. And Laser cannons. And Proton torpedos. Have i forgot something?

OR maybe he meant something like:

a mission like "Fly at full burn through a Canyon on a huge Asteroid, towards a Cylon Base/ refinery/ whatsoever, avoid getting killed by fixed emplacements and a lot of Raiders, drop a missile in a vital area, bug out and see the whole thing blow up".


Sounds like a rehash of a "Hand of God" mission, playing Lee.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on December 14, 2007, 02:03:21 AM
Quote from: Enki;86551
Sounds like a rehash of a "Hand of God" mission, playing Lee.


That would explain the feeling of deja vu i had, as i wrote the post.;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on December 14, 2007, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: Enki;86551
Sounds like a rehash of a "Hand of God" mission, playing Lee.


Sounds like a Multiplayer version of HoG to me.

Soon as the refinery is textured I think I might have a go at that. :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on December 14, 2007, 04:10:01 PM
Quote from: karajorma;86573
Sounds like a Multiplayer version of HoG to me.

Soon as the refinery is textured I think I might have a go at that. :)


THX, this will be the best X-mas gift this year.;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on December 14, 2007, 04:21:37 PM
would be it, indeed :)

Quote from: Jackäss;86545
There needs to be a death star trench run mission.


Please, check BSG 2003 0215.

On the other hand.. I'm sure on that by "Caping/Ceiling portions" along a canyon, the player who is evading will feel less exposed to enemy fire from above. Well.. I'm sure the devs have plenty of ideas already.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on December 14, 2007, 05:06:57 PM
Quote from: Angelus;86579
THX, this will be the best X-mas gift this year.;)


Best gift of next year seems much more likely somehow. I doubt HoG or any other major changes will be ready to ship for a long time.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on December 14, 2007, 05:15:51 PM
Quote from: karajorma;86582
Best gift of next year seems much more likely somehow. I doubt HoG or any other major changes will be ready to ship for a long time.


(http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/5821/crayjq2.gif)
Title: What i have in mind
Post by: MichalM.Mac on December 14, 2007, 09:18:57 PM
1) Combat landing - in show it's amazing how all vipers land. This can be good in combination with limited time for landing -> Galactica Jumps away

2) Launching Vipers from Tubes - i love to see in show, how Vipers are being launchedů. I can remember one quote "Give them hell, sir!" <- than operator hit the button and launch Viper. Operator's room i out of question in Freespace 2, but i love to hear this in radio :) Maybe some special camera views for launching can be included. -> Camera from front, Back, Cocpit, Side (but for side cam you'll need have feature for 100% trasparency like in NeverWinter Nights... never mind, but launch tube is best way to start defence mission)

3) One primary View - It should be ok to have one recommended wiev for game and other optionals. You did really great job with Figter models, so i suppose, that cocpit view should be secondary... my opinion. And 3rd person view with perfection

4) Maneuvers and Gameplay - I think, thah is very vital to have some key predefined maneuvers.
- I like 180° Flip like in show , when pilots quickly turned back and fired upon Raiders on their tail. In this i imagine have camera in default view behind Viper -> than Viper do 180° and when you'll see front of viper, camera quickly rotetes around back to Viper-Behind view. This should be very quick to not affect gameplay.
- Some evading spin maneuver.
- And maybe other else <- but they should be bindable in game options -> keyboard options. And some traing mission for Viper (fighter) extra features.
- Little change for concept? This still feels too much Freespace. But that's only my opinion

5) Massive Battles?
- Option for really fast computer. Like somthing - one or two battlestar. 2 cylon basestars and big squadrons. Maybe ignore original freespace squadron setting and make own when you heve 10+ fighter in squadron. Can Freespace 2 engine hande that. Just therotical idea.

6) Soundtrack
- well i know that it's likely not possible to use original BSG soundtrack, but i love bsg drum music in combats. My opinion. Music can change between combat and non combat modes

7) Get Second MacOS X Coder

8) Cutscenes
Like - Viper Launch Tubes - Training maneuvers - Training Flying in formation. And finally champaign use durring mission to tell mission's story.

9) Story
Will be final version great story? I hope so :)

10) Better Graphic options possibility
For advenced users (but not advanced extremely :) )
Can i turn AF and FSAA via Freespace2 engine or Driver-Overrides are only way. If second is true, than no FSAA for me on MacOS

11) Ingame voices
- it's hard to catch all things with my English level. Maybe radio filter could be little more soft.

FINAL
- I didn't read all this Thread. So if i have same ideas as anyone, than pleasy excuse me.
- I realise than some things canot be done, or nobody want it - Opinions :)
- And sorry for my English - Not perfect at all :)
- This Mode will rule them all !!!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on December 14, 2007, 09:34:00 PM
Quote from: MichalM.Mac;86588
1) Combat landing - in show it's amazing how all vipers land. This can be good in combination with limited time for landing -> Galactica Jumps away

2) Launching Vipers from Tubes - i love to see in show, how Vipers are being launchedů. I can remember one quote "Give them hell, sir!" <- than operator hit the button and launch Viper. Operator's room i out of question in Freespace 2, but i love to hear this in radio :) Maybe some special camera views for launching can be included. -> Camera from front, Back, Cocpit, Side (but for side cam you'll need have feature for 100% trasparency like in NeverWinter Nights... never mind, but launch tube is best way to start defence mission)

3) One primary View - It should be ok to have one recommended wiev for game and other optionals. You did really great job with Figter models, so i suppose, that cocpit view should be secondary... my opinion. And 3rd person view with perfection

4) Maneuvers and Gameplay - I think, thah is very vital to have some key predefined maneuvers.
- I like 180° Flip like in show , when pilots quickly turned back and fired upon Raiders on their tail. In this i imagine have camera in default view behind Viper -> than Viper do 180° and when you'll see front of viper, camera quickly rotetes around back to Viper-Behind view. This should be very quick to not affect gameplay.
- Some evading spin maneuver.
- And maybe other else <- but they should be bindable in game options -> keyboard options. And some traing mission for Viper (fighter) extra features.
- Little change for concept? This still feels too much Freespace. But that's only my opinion

5) Massive Battles?
- Option for really fast computer. Like somthing - one or two battlestar. 2 cylon basestars and big squadrons. Maybe ignore original freespace squadron setting and make own when you heve 10+ fighter in squadron. Can Freespace 2 engine hande that. Just therotical idea.

6) Soundtrack
- well i know that it's likely not possible to use original BSG soundtrack, but i love bsg drum music in combats. My opinion. Music can change between combat and non combat modes

7) Get Second MacOS X Coder

8) Cutscenes
Like - Viper Launch Tubes - Training maneuvers - Training Flying in formation. And finally champaign use durring mission to tell mission's story.

9) Story
Will be final version great story? I hope so :)

10) Better Graphic options possibility
For advenced users (but not advanced extremely :) )
Can i turn AF and FSAA via Freespace2 engine or Driver-Overrides are only way. If second is true, than no FSAA for me on MacOS

11) Ingame voices
- it's hard to catch all things with my English level. Maybe radio filter could be little more soft.

FINAL
- I didn't read all this Thread. So if i have same ideas as anyone, than pleasy excuse me.
- I realise than some things canot be done, or nobody want it - Opinions :)
- And sorry for my English - Not perfect at all :)
- This Mode will rule them all !!!


Combatlandings: yep, will be in

Launchtubes: yep, will be in

View: there will be cockpits in the final release, primary view is/ will be the                                  
         default

Maneuvers: pre-programmed maneuvers like in the Game SIERRA made?
                DON'T THINK SO. You can fly ALL the maneuvers from the show
                yourself.

Massive Battles: don't know if it's possible to increase the playerlimit, even if  
                       so the lag will kill all the fun. Even WITH the new netcode it
                       will be laggy. But i really like the idea.

Soundtrack: Download the Soundtrack from this SITE, and listen.
                 It IS wonderful AND very close to the OST from the show.

Second Coder: If you know someone who is able AND willing to help the DEVs  
                     out and participate in this great project, bring him/ her in.

Cutscenes, Story: AFAIK yes, will be in

Graphics, ingame voices: let's wait for the final release
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: MichalM.Mac on December 14, 2007, 09:48:33 PM
Well what i miss is 180° Flip. Because now is the turning too slow and bots (if turn and fire upon them)...they fly around  in circles. It's typical for Freespace but not much Battlestar style.. I maybe want much :) - Basicly you can do hard-core maneuvers with figher like they in show...

I don't know anyone suited for coder position. But maybe on main site shoul be something that you are looking for someone like this :)

Massive battles - i meant this for Single Player only. For multiplayer i know there is limit of 16 or 32 or something like that..
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: P-90_177 on December 14, 2007, 10:01:48 PM
Quote from: MichalM.Mac;86591
Well what i miss is 180° Flip. Because now is the turning too slow and bots (if turn and fire upon them)...they fly around  in circles. It's typical for Freespace but not much Battlestar style.. I maybe want much :) - Basicly you can do hard-core maneuvers with figher like they in show...

I don't know anyone suited for coder position. But maybe on main site shoul be something that you are looking for someone like this :)

Massive battles - i meant this for Single Player only. For multiplayer i know there is limit of 16 or 32 or something like that..


have you not got used to using the glide function yet? That is so much better than any pre determined manuver and it adds a whole new level to combat. If you got a bogey on your tail and you're just circleing round eachother, just hit glide, do a 180 and blast his cylon behind out of your sky.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on December 14, 2007, 10:01:56 PM
Massive Battles in SP shouldn't be a BIG problem. There is a ingame Video ( search for the Video thread, try it on youtube or stage.six.divx.com ) with a lot of action - and there is also a video where you can see Vipers starting from the launchtubes.

The Cirlcling in SP is a AI problem, don't know if it's possible to fix that.
But i'm sure the DEVs already work on that or at least have that on the to-do list.
As soon you play a few MP games, you will notice that Human players also
Circle. :sigh:

And IMO, there shouldn't be ANY preprogrammed maneuvers.
Believe me, EVERY maneuver from the show is possible to do on your own.
It might not look so stylish like in the show, but it is possible.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Josh_88 on December 15, 2007, 04:14:20 AM
right, like P-90 said, with the glide you can flip 180 degrees in almost no time. and as far as preset maneuvers, what comes to mind is one quote. "DO A BARREL ROLL!"
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: MichalM.Mac on December 15, 2007, 12:13:33 PM
Well.. i'll look into it. A have to figure out, how gliding works. maybe in training should be some longer practice "Fighter handling"

Update I have Mac version. My problem is, that if i do gliding i can't move fighter to left/rigt/pich up/.. with 4,8,6,2,7,9 keys. When i turn mouse on... i can do gliding and move with figter at same time. I wish to had joystick :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on December 15, 2007, 06:33:39 PM
Quote from: MichalM.Mac;86615
I wish to had joystick :)


You certainly need a joystick to play this game. Makes a big difference.

IIRC there was some guy playing with a trackpoint. My old IBM Thinkpad has one of those and I've to admit that was one of the better pointer system I've seen around. The only problem I do see on those is that I had it placed in the middle of the keyboard.. the little red bugger.. heheh.

Anyways .. I hope Santa brings you some joystick soon! ;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: ghaleon on December 15, 2007, 06:50:07 PM
Quote from: Deckard;86621
IIRC there was some guy playing with a trackpoint. My old IBM Thinkpad has one of those and I've to admit that was one of the better pointer system I've seen around.
Aha! Sorry for going off-topic, but I've never heard anybody who agrees with me. I would even consider buying a Thinkpad just for that, since they're the only laptops that still have those.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on December 15, 2007, 06:53:05 PM
Forgot to mention that I've never tried a game like that ( * ) into the Ascaroid. I've to give it a try.. could be great as well, don't ya?

Respawn issue aside, of course... which has been already mentioned by Kara.

* Does "Cat&Mouse Boomx3" sound good as Modality's name?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Dragonfly on December 16, 2007, 10:08:25 AM
A question more so than a request... are we going to have a separate command for landing gear to be lowered for landings? Also,will we be able to just land normally not a combat landing JAM IT IN THERE type landing but a nice easy slip it in like a gentleman landing as seen in the miniseries. As far as the launching from the launch tubes is concerned... is that going to be pilot controlled? as in we will be sitting in our spiffy cockpit looking down the tube,press a key and get a firm kick to our posterior section?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Nuke on December 16, 2007, 12:55:57 PM
just an fiy, i got a crude atmospheric flight model working in freespace. see hlp's scripting board. its still vary basic, but it would allow some atmospheric missions and other cool things like the adama maneuver.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on December 16, 2007, 01:09:01 PM
Quote from: Nuke;86661
just an fiy, i got a crude atmospheric flight model working in freespace. see hlp's scripting board. its still vary basic, but it would allow some atmospheric missions and other cool things like the adama maneuver.


link please!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Firebert on December 16, 2007, 03:43:22 PM
I want to start by saying that you all have done a great job with the game.:)      

Here are my suggestions for the game:

1.  A fuel gage that last for about 30 min. of regular flight and decreases significantly when using boost a lot.  ( I think someone suggested this already)

2.  A game mode like team death match where your ship don't respawn until after the end of the round.  Then the game restarts.  (Like Counter-Strike)

Hope these ideas help.:biggrin1:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Crixx on December 16, 2007, 04:07:04 PM
Quote from: Nuke;86661
the adama maneuver.


You tease!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: cancer on December 16, 2007, 06:27:33 PM
is possible a   missions where galactica send a team to a planet, and change te view from a cockpit  to a third person? ... jjaaa.
i don't know if its possible, just an mad idea.
(sorry if i speak spanglish)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Crixx on December 16, 2007, 08:08:38 PM
Only if Kara sacrifices seventeen newborn lambs to the purple-spotted god of thirdpersonage.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: StarSlayer on December 16, 2007, 08:21:18 PM
An away team of Kara Thrace, Gunny Mathias, Cmdr. Spock and Ensign Ricky go down to the Algae planet....

Something tells me Ensign Ricky isn't coming back
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Dagna on December 16, 2007, 08:59:29 PM
In the original freespace 2 there was a mission, when the pilot had to tag targets with rockets for the cap-ships. I bet it could be done with a raptor and galactica. (virus attack compromised targeting computers)
What do you think?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on December 16, 2007, 09:35:34 PM
Quote from: StarSlayer;86676
An away team of Kara Thrace, Gunny Mathias, Cmdr. Spock and Ensign Ricky go down to the Algae planet....

Something tells me Ensign Ricky isn't coming back



Hm, it's always the guy in a red shirt who is screwed...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Sidestep on December 16, 2007, 10:19:45 PM
Quote from: Dagna;86678
In the original freespace 2 there was a mission, when the pilot had to tag targets with rockets for the cap-ships. I bet it could be done with a raptor and galactica. (virus attack compromised targeting computers)
What do you think?


Sounds like a good mission. Then you could sit back and watch the cap ships do their thing.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: FusionStorm on December 16, 2007, 10:25:18 PM
Quote from: Sidestep;86681
Sounds like a good mission. Then you could sit back and watch the cap ships do their thing.


If it's anything like "A Game of Tag", I'll pass. That mission is a pain in the butt.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on December 17, 2007, 12:19:52 AM
Only cause the Warspite has a habit of not checking that you're between it and the Shivan you just targeted.:D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Crixx on December 17, 2007, 04:54:43 PM
A game of tag was awesome, heathen.

It was also a giant pain in the arse, but awesome nonetheless.

I AM IN CHARGE OF ZEE MASSIVE LAZERS
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Dragonfly on December 17, 2007, 06:43:58 PM
A question more so than a request... are we going to have a separate command for landing gear to be lowered for landings? Also,will we be able to just land normally not a combat landing JAM IT IN THERE type landing but a nice easy slip it in like a gentleman landing as seen in the miniseries. As far as the launching from the launch tubes is concerned... is that going to be pilot controlled? as in we will be sitting in our spiffy cockpit looking down the tube,press a key and get a firm kick to our posterior section?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on December 17, 2007, 07:38:30 PM
Quote from: Dragonfly;86734
A question more so than a request... are we going to have a separate command for landing gear to be lowered for landings? Also,will we be able to just land normally not a combat landing JAM IT IN THERE type landing but a nice easy slip it in like a gentleman landing as seen in the miniseries. As far as the launching from the launch tubes is concerned... is that going to be pilot controlled? as in we will be sitting in our spiffy cockpit looking down the tube,press a key and get a firm kick to our posterior section?


Pilot controlled starts from launchtubes? Yes. IIRC there is at the moment one problem. If the Battlestar is moving while the Vipers start, they are "bouncing" through the launchtube, damaging the ship.
But like all the other things - the DEVs will take care of that.

Trust the DEVs!:nod:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on December 17, 2007, 09:12:58 PM
Pilot controlled? Why?

They aren't pilot controlled in the show either. A pilot doesn't even press a button to launch, a launch tube operator does that if all lights are green. While on the tube, the Vipers are on rails for the exact reason to prevent them from bouncing to the walls.

Pilots gain control after exiting the launch tube.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: David cgc on December 17, 2007, 09:36:38 PM
Well, slightly before. They seem to fire up their engines right before they exit the tubes, and then can hit the afterburner once they're clear.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on December 18, 2007, 12:28:09 AM
The launch sequence looks like a stylized version of a standard US Navy carrier launch sequence for a F-14D.  Why that model/series?  Well the way the afterburner works!

The F-14D has such a hot stage 5 AB that the jet blast deflector (JBD) cooling system can't keep up.  So full AB is slaved to a nose-wheel extended microswitch.  That is once the plane is free from the catapult at the end of the stroke the AB will automatically fully engage without further pilot input.  Of course the pilot needs to have the throttle selecting AB to start out with, and the AB will be minimally engaged (stage 1) during run-up -- you would hate to have a start blow-out on one engine while the opposite motor goes to stage 5!

BSG launches look to me to act the same way: 1) static run up to max non-AB power, 2) Salute, 3) shoot;  popping free of the launch tube catapult auto retracts the gear and enables the AB.  If the pilot does not have the throttle set to AB as the stroke finishes then no AB engagement.

I would guess the fix to bouncing down the tube would be to treat the interior Viper similar to the way a moving turret maintains it's relative position in the model so it is still computed with the battlestar's transforms while it translates it's way along the tube.  I think the catapult shuttle could be the agent for that (turret substitute) and just slave the Viper position and movement velocities to it while inside the launch tube.  Invariably easier said than done.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Dragonfly on December 18, 2007, 01:57:26 AM
Enki,you took the words right out of my mouth. When i said pilot controlled launches I meant something akin to us having to throttle up in prep for the launch and then us giving the signal to the officer running the "cat" to give us that kick in the pants that gets the whirly twirly kill time adventure started.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Snagger on December 18, 2007, 06:46:08 PM
Quote from: Enki;86750
The launch sequence looks like a stylized version of a standard US Navy carrier launch sequence for a F-14D.  Why that model/series?  Well the way the afterburner works!

The F-14D has such a hot stage 5 AB that the jet blast deflector (JBD) cooling system can't keep up.  So full AB is slaved to a nose-wheel extended microswitch.  That is once the plane is free from the catapult at the end of the stroke the AB will automatically fully engage without further pilot input.  Of course the pilot needs to have the throttle selecting AB to start out with, and the AB will be minimally engaged (stage 1) during run-up -- you would hate to have a start blow-out on one engine while the opposite motor goes to stage 5!

BSG launches look to me to act the same way: 1) static run up to max non-AB power, 2) Salute, 3) shoot;  popping free of the launch tube catapult auto retracts the gear and enables the AB.  If the pilot does not have the throttle set to AB as the stroke finishes then no AB engagement.

I would guess the fix to bouncing down the tube would be to treat the interior Viper similar to the way a moving turret maintains it's relative position in the model so it is still computed with the battlestar's transforms while it translates it's way along the tube.  I think the catapult shuttle could be the agent for that (turret substitute) and just slave the Viper position and movement velocities to it while inside the launch tube.  Invariably easier said than done.


The F18 launches don't use afterburners, from what I,ve seen, but the proceedure is much the same.  The Cat operator won't fire the trigger until both the pilot's hands are seen on the coaming and well away from the stick.  The reason for that is that there have been numerous crashes, especially in poor visibility and at night, where the pilots have suffered from the illusion of a hard acceleration feeling like a pitch upwards.  They pushed the stick forward in response to the illusion and pitched straight down into the sea.  After applying the correct amount of nose up trim and raising the thrust to 90%+, the pilot is hands off until clear of the deck.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on December 18, 2007, 08:57:11 PM
Yep. Basic procedure is the same for all birds.  Hornets use burner depending on gross wt and drag count at takeoff. Older Tomcats always used burner, Bs and Ds usually didn't. Phantoms looked like true roman candles when they launched, no blue and pretty shock diamonds in that exhaust.

Another reason for the Hornet hands off is it is really easy to induce PIO as the aircraft transitions off the deck.  It takes a little for the AFCS to get completely sorted once weight comes off the wheels, and if the pilot mucks about with the controls in that first half sec  a very interesting display of non-airmanship happens!  

An old test pilot and once told a room full of us helo gents about the initial carrier trial for the Hornet when they were having horrible PIO issues.  Seems the pilots didn't believe the engineers who predicted exactly that behavior.  So the head Northrop gent told the pilot of the next launch to hold his hands on either side of his visor.  When the incredulous pilot radioed back why, the engineer said it was proven in human trials that that was the place he could fastest regrip the controls from if needed.  So the TP did it.  Plane flew beautifully.  Engineer made the whole thing up on the spot and the pilot took significant ribbing for his lack of faith in engineers and near complete gullibility.  :lol:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Dragonfly on December 19, 2007, 11:24:26 AM
So I just finished going back and reading the thread almost from the beginning, when landings were mentioned it was said that they wouldn't be manual. Have things progressed since that time? Will we be able to land manually if we want to? both gentle landings and full tilt boogie combat landings?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cl1nt on December 19, 2007, 11:41:05 AM
You can fly through the flight pods, so just slam it into the landing deck and pray you don't explode?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Dragonfly on December 19, 2007, 12:20:58 PM
Cl1nts point made me think of something again...retractable landing gear? yes or no?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Sparky on December 19, 2007, 12:28:53 PM
Is there perhaps some way of making only part of a ship invulnerable?  Because if so, you could code the underside of of the landing gear as such, so the viper receives no damage due to collision (landing), unless you really slam it.

If so, I'd also like to request that you do the same for the inside of the wing/gun of the MkII, so that we can execute the Thrace Maneuver (when Lee's ship was crippled in the Miniseries, and Kara rammed/pushed him home under heavy fire.)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on December 19, 2007, 04:02:31 PM
Turey's working on the combat landing stuff. You'll have to wait and see what he has to say.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Crixx on December 19, 2007, 05:03:36 PM
All landings will be controlled by Captain Kelly, scourge of random lawyers.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Turey on December 19, 2007, 11:10:04 PM
Quote from: Dragonfly;86844
So I just finished going back and reading the thread almost from the beginning, when landings were mentioned it was said that they wouldn't be manual. Have things progressed since that time? Will we be able to land manually if we want to? both gentle landings and full tilt boogie combat landings?
Yes.

Quote from: Dragonfly;86847
Cl1nts point made me think of something again...retractable landing gear? yes or no?
Up to the modeler. The landing code should work with the subobject animation code.

Quote from: Sparky;86849
Is there perhaps some way of making only part of a ship invulnerable?  Because if so, you could code the underside of of the landing gear as such, so the viper receives no damage due to collision (landing), unless you really slam it.
That's essentially how it works.

I really need to start working on BtRL code again. I haven't done much recently.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Crixx on December 20, 2007, 12:10:31 AM
Quote from: Turey;86887
I really need to start working on BtRL code again. I haven't done much recently.


Our new insect overlords will see to that, as you toil in their underground sugar caves.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cl1nt on December 20, 2007, 10:12:40 AM
Underground sugar caves with computers though, right?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Crixx on December 20, 2007, 04:03:51 PM
Our insect overlords are technologically savvy.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Dragonfly on December 20, 2007, 08:36:24 PM
I for one welcome our new insect overlords
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Crixx on December 20, 2007, 10:05:40 PM
What we've got to do is harness the worms!
Ride them round upon their backs!
We are superior! We are the humans! These are the facts!

Imagine the nightmare of having an insect boss.
Going into work,
"Good morning Mr Wasp!"
AAAAAAAAAAAH!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Dragonfly on December 20, 2007, 10:15:27 PM
Quote from: Crixx;86958
What we've got to do is harness the worms!
Ride them round upon their backs!
We are superior! We are the humans! These are the facts!


...Shai haluud!!!!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on December 20, 2007, 10:26:32 PM
Quote from: Dragonfly;86960
...Shai haluud!!!!


(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7007/cylonpancarte01hj9.gif)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cl1nt on December 21, 2007, 12:40:17 AM
The intellectual capacity for this thread has been compromised.

There is only one saviour... Physics.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on December 21, 2007, 12:52:21 AM
Right. Physics save the day. Exept you are falling from a roof.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cl1nt on December 21, 2007, 12:54:54 AM
I roll 1d6. I miss (the ground).
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on December 21, 2007, 12:59:55 AM
isn't that cheating?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cl1nt on December 21, 2007, 01:49:13 AM
Not if you use portals ;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on December 21, 2007, 01:53:13 AM
Ok, next time i jump from a roof, i know what to do...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: David cgc on December 21, 2007, 02:14:58 AM
I just had an interesting thought for the music. Since the demo has the whole new arrival on Pegasus angle, and since the end credits music for Razor is from Kendra's arrival on the Pegasus (and the attack on the shipyard), maybe it could be used to make a new version of the "Welcome Aboard" main menu music.

Also, I'd like to say that I feel a little like an alcoholic sucking quarters out of vending machines to pay for booze when I rip the end credits music from a DVD because I can't wait for a real soundtrack.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Sparky on December 21, 2007, 03:33:08 AM
Quote from: Crixx;86939
Our insect overlords are technologically savvy.


I thought they were robot overlords...

(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u303/gryfin210/product_detail_t_random_voted_rosli.jpg)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on December 21, 2007, 09:04:45 AM
Alright guys, back on topic.
Title: "Legendary" voices
Post by: Echilles on December 26, 2007, 12:05:32 PM
I really don't have time to read all 36 pages so if this has been already discussed  please forgive me.

So "legendary" voices would bring very much immersion and atmosphere to game. Not in some training mission but maybe in some very important mission you could hear Admiral Adama through wireless saying something like this:
"This is Galactica actual. [Insert Player Name Here] you must destroy that cylon refinery. The entire fleets destiny is depending on your mission. Good hunting. Admiral Adama out."

I think that that would add very much depth to the game. You would really have the feeling that your mission is essential and that you can't fail when Admiral Adama himself had spoken to you.

I don't know who would dare to imitate for example Edward James Olmos...:nervous: But if the mod gets enough publicity maybe you could try to hook him up to the team.:nod:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cl1nt on December 26, 2007, 12:34:32 PM
Create sound samples from the show maybe?

Such as apollo giving his little pre-battle speech to his pilots.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: newman on December 26, 2007, 03:00:15 PM
I think Joe Pesci should do Adama's voice acting.
"Don't frak with me, Ellen..." ;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Crixx on December 26, 2007, 04:19:10 PM
Quote from: Echilles;87425
"This is Galactica actual. [Insert Player Name Here] you must destroy that cylon refinery. The entire fleets destiny is depending on your mission. Good hunting. Admiral Adama out."


If the sound clips were to refer to individual player names, you'd have to record a hell of a lot of sounds.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Echilles on December 26, 2007, 04:32:55 PM
Quote from: Crixx;87430
If the sound clips were to refer to individual player names, you'd have to record a hell of a lot of sounds.

Well I don't know anything about that technical stuff. But you surely get the idea and something like what Cl1nt said would be veeery nice.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: newman on December 26, 2007, 05:39:02 PM
if you replaced player name with a squadron designation, the problem is gone: "This is Galactica actual. Red 1, you must.."
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: junction04 on December 26, 2007, 08:28:55 PM
Why not include in the escort list the distance to the ships in the list? If I'm escorting five ships at once, I'd want to make sure I'm not too far away from them to be effective in defending them. It might be prudent to have a readily available list showing that information rather than having to cycle through the escort list to check their distances.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on December 26, 2007, 08:46:31 PM
Not a bad idea.

I can't see it working in 640x480 though so it would have to be a 1024x768 feature and I'm not certain how easy that is to do.

The other option (once Taylor's new pilot file code is in) is to bind a key to swap between displaying hull damage and distance.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Backslash on December 27, 2007, 01:22:51 PM
I've had a similar idea in mind for a while now: extending the concept of multitarget.  To see what I mean, target the next escort ship and press Shift+F6 (or rather any F-key from F5-F12), and repeat for each escort ship.  Now press F6.  ...That kind of takes care of 'showing where all the escorts are', but you've got to do the work of making the target list in-mission.  Not so convenient in a scramble situation ;)

I'm planning to extend this system with new controls like "all ships in wing", "all escort ships", etc.  Problem is, these ideas would require new key binds, so for now they remain in testing.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Flaser on December 28, 2007, 09:40:06 PM
Press F3 - custom target group bindings pronto
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on December 28, 2007, 10:01:18 PM
Quote from: karajorma;87442
Not a bad idea.

I can't see it working in 640x480 though so it would have to be a 1024x768 feature and I'm not certain how easy that is to do.

The other option (once Taylor's new pilot file code is in) is to bind a key to swap between displaying hull damage and distance.


This would be for the escorteds only or also for the targeting info shown below the crosshair?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on December 29, 2007, 09:55:16 AM
I wouldn't imagine it being significantly harder to change both.

Although if Backslash is already working on something I'd want to see how that works first.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Vandecker on December 29, 2007, 12:57:45 PM
I just had an intriuging idea. In the mini-series Kara Thrace had a problem with her Viper and was forced to wait whilst the crew fixed her ship, listening to the battle through the radio Chatter.

It would be interesting for atmospheric purposes to have a mission where we have just such a failure and are forced to listen for three or four minutes to the tense, panicky radio chatter of the pilots as they desperately go toe to toe with the cylons, whilst we sit in the cockpit itching to finally get out and help.

I've heard and read combat pilots saying that the hardest thing for a fighter pilot is to hear a dogfight that is going on but not be able to participate. It would be interesting to experience even a little of what thats like.

Though to be honest I'm not sure if it would work in game. And it would mean a lot of script writing and voice acting.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Wolfy on December 29, 2007, 01:19:57 PM
I dont see it requireing alot of scripting, however, yes it will need alot of voice acting...

I dont know how the BTRL Mission makers plan to make launch-tubes work, but if its similar to WCS then all they have to do is increase the amount of time unitll your ship is launched...i think...

wait, i think? i can think? i thought that was banned around here :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: rikii on January 01, 2008, 01:22:01 AM
full control of galactica will be a dream
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Typhis19 on January 02, 2008, 04:17:51 AM
I don't know if this has been mentioned, and I'm sorry but I've not the patience or time to dredge through the posts to find it, but has landing been discussed? Because of all things I'd love to bring a viper down on the deck of the Galactica. Especially if you could have time limit landings, where if you don't land before time runs out, the Galactica jumps, leaving you stranded as a casualty of the Cylons. Again if it has been discussed before my apologies, but not being able to land in FS2 always bugged me a bit. (will launching down the tube be part of the final release as well? I noticed the videos having it, but will it be in the missions too?)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on January 02, 2008, 06:01:44 AM
Both will be in, Launchtubestarts and landings.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Typhis19 on January 02, 2008, 07:09:19 AM
You Sir's are God's, God's among Men.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on January 02, 2008, 12:42:53 PM
Wouldn't be proper Galactica without tube launches and combat landings. :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Klax75 on January 03, 2008, 07:53:17 AM
I was wondering if in landings if the Meat-Ball going to be active? And are we going to have audio cues? So we can state we have the ball? To make landings more interesting they are going to need a "wire" could just be a patch of deck that is the arresting area. Hit that and your Viper will get a trap. If not, you get a audio warning for a wave off. The arresting area could have zones, broken down in to four areas, (Like carrier wires) only problem is everyone would come in hardly moving to get a perfect 4 wire. Unless the Galatica had forward movement and it had pitch and roll, even if slight.

For a Meat-Ball to work it's going to have to know your ships orinenation. :/ Since it would visually have to correct with lights to show you what you need to do. Along with audio cues telling you to power down, or more power.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: M-562 on January 03, 2008, 11:42:50 AM
I dont believe the battlestar had a catch wire (idk how its called but u get the picture). I thought the vipers just land with their Alt thrusters down on full power and let friction stop them. Notice that the vipers use skids not wheels.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: six6six on January 03, 2008, 12:10:06 PM
Considering the flight pods on the Galactica are at least 1.5X bigger than a Nimitz class on their own, I dont think you need arresting wires.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cl1nt on January 03, 2008, 12:13:45 PM
combat landings are different, but when a viper (or raptor) is just landing, They land straight onto the elevators and are secured by a mag lock. Presumably, there is at least some gravity in the flight pods, as the deck below it sure has gravity..
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Antagonist on January 03, 2008, 12:28:29 PM
In the miniseries, you see Lee's Viper glide into the flight pod and stop in mid air before it settles down on the lift, which would mean there is no gravity at all in there...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: newman on January 03, 2008, 12:49:41 PM
Quote from: Antagonist;87922
In the miniseries, you see Lee's Viper glide into the flight pod and stop in mid air before it settles down on the lift, which would mean there is no gravity at all in there...


Actually, in that sequence, you see lee's thrusters doing the soft landing work, which would suggest gravity. And so would the combat landings we've seen.
Wouldn't make sense not to have gravity in that part of the ship, any viper that hit the deck during a combat landing would just bounce off.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cl1nt on January 03, 2008, 12:55:23 PM
The vipers do bounce in combat landings, but they come straight back down, again implying gravity.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: newman on January 03, 2008, 12:57:44 PM
That's exactly what I meant. If there wasn't any gravity they'd bounce to the ceiling. But I have to admit that the whole combat landing thing is my least favorite thing in bsg. Metal skids that scratch the deck? Why oh why would anyone do that? It damages the deck, it damages the landing gear, and is in turn risky for the entire viper, not to mention the pilot.
And there's a really great invention which would sort it out: the wheel. Guess they were to busy making ftl possible to invent one?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Tikey on January 03, 2008, 12:57:46 PM
Also in razor [spoiler]you see centurions walking in the pod as they enter the ship[/spoiler] And there are other examples like that
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on January 03, 2008, 01:00:26 PM
Yeah, there is gravity. Imagine no gravity ingame:

After a really hard fight, in which you destroyed dozens of Raiders, protected fleetships from being nuked, you are ordered to return to the Battlestar, before it FTL out. During the fight your Hull is reduced to 2 or 3%, you come in at full burn chased by Cylon reinforcements, hit the deck, bounce off, hit the wall and BOOOOOOM - Mission failed. ;)

You need gravity. Gravity is your friend ( well, not in reallife if you e.g. falling from roof ;) ).
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Klax75 on January 03, 2008, 01:48:04 PM
Yes, but in that method, there is no real urgency to land on the deck. It looks good for visuals to see a wheelless vehicle sliding and sparking. As for a game, why would you do it? You just fly until you match speed then lower down, no drama. On the screen they make skidding landings because it's more fun to watch. When in reality there is no reason thrust reverse, three dimensional space flight you'd have to do it.

If you had a spot to "snag" then it would make urgency it would instantly stop you, because you could miss it.

There would have to be gravity to pull the ship down, and why not a spot to mag lock it to slow it down faster. If there wasn't a force to pull it down once in side the hanger, there wouldn't be continous stream of sparks, since it would bounce once and not fall back down unless thrusters were fired. Then once down you'd have to have the thrusters on to hold the ship in place while the Galatica manuevers around you. So having a gravity landing strip would be the best.

In the game you would fly in then fight gravity (mag lock whatever you want to call it) to bring the ship down as a landing safely.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Antagonist on January 03, 2008, 01:58:40 PM
Actually, during combat landings, every second counts, and it would take far too much time to match speed with the ship...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Klax75 on January 03, 2008, 02:06:47 PM
Not when you select the Battlestar as the target and hit Match Speed with Target. :/
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on January 03, 2008, 05:27:40 PM
Quote from: newman;87925
That's exactly what I meant. If there wasn't any gravity they'd bounce to the ceiling. But I have to admit that the whole combat landing thing is my least favorite thing in bsg. Metal skids that scratch the deck? Why oh why would anyone do that? It damages the deck, it damages the landing gear, and is in turn risky for the entire viper, not to mention the pilot.
And there's a really great invention which would sort it out: the wheel. Guess they were to busy making ftl possible to invent one?

Why skids?  They are dead simple.  No rubber tires to keep warm in the vacuum of space, preventing them from shattering into a million bits at the first touch of the deck.  No hydraulic brake system, removing weight and fire hazard on hits. Skids have friction so another reason not to need brakes.  Shock struts and live seats reduce the pilot impact forces to well inside safety limits, nothing there we don't have already available on Earth.  

Earth helos use replaceable skid shoes to handle the abrasion, no reason that can't work in the BSG universe too.  Then you just make the deck harder than the sacrificial shoes and no problems for combat landing damage to the deck.

I would think the flight deck grav could be on a gradient, strongest on the landing strip, falling off to just enough at the elevators.  Or even dynamically adjustable allowing easier maneuvering of ships like Colonial One.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on January 03, 2008, 05:48:41 PM
Quote from: Klax75;87911
For a Meat-Ball to work it's going to have to know your ships orinenation. :/ Since it would visually have to correct with lights to show you what you need to do. Along with audio cues telling you to power down, or more power.

No, it's the other way around! :nod:   Your computer knows your ships position and the relative position of the landing deck aides, just compute the relative angles and color the meatball appropriately in your own view.  That's all!  And that way multi-player combat landing lens ops work for free!   Same thing for lineup.  Here's a nice lineup diagram, imagine glideslope similar, but yellow on & high, orange low.

(http://www.nawcad.navy.mil/strike/projects/images/cvs-2.gif)



See the site here for just a little more. (http://www.nawcad.navy.mil/strike/projects/cvs_lso.cfm)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Klax75 on January 03, 2008, 06:05:51 PM
Good improvement. :D We need a button to hit to send back "I have the ball"
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Ajax on January 03, 2008, 06:31:20 PM
another argument towards gravity in the flight pods is that everybody could walk in the sealed off pod without floating away:P

although id ahve to say that the deck is probably a low gravity enviroment. so need for the full 1.0g. that way you can move the vipers quickly.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: StarSlayer on January 03, 2008, 07:33:43 PM
Hit glide and make your trap backwards that way you can flip off the Cylons before you jump :pimp:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: newman on January 03, 2008, 08:09:50 PM
Quote from: Enki;87934
No rubber tires to keep warm in the vacuum of space, preventing them from shattering into a million bits at the first touch of the deck.


With the level of technology they have, ftl and all, you'd think they could come up with a material that could work? I never said they had to use plain rubber tires.

Quote from: Enki;87934

No hydraulic brake system, removing weight and fire hazard on hits. Skids have friction so another reason not to need brakes.


Hydraulic brake system is used on today's aircraft without any problems.
I don't see why a society with far more advanced technology would have a problem with this.

Quote from: Enki;87934

Shock struts and live seats reduce the pilot impact forces to well inside safety limits, nothing there we don't have already available on Earth. Earth helos use replaceable skid shoes to handle the abrasion, no reason that can't work in the BSG universe too.


That's where you're wrong. Earth helicopters don't land on skids while having a high horizontal velocity. If they tried, they'd crash.
Vipers, on the other hand, do. First of all, their forward velocities seem rather high during combat landings. The force on the fixed skids landing gear would be extreme on impact - the friction alone would be damaging enough. That is why today's aircraft use wheels - the rotating surface below helps to reduce friction and reduce the force applied to the landing gear. It's still the best system around, and I still find skids a bit.. well, stupid. They're ok for vertical landings or almost vertical landings, not bsg-style combat landings.
Another arguments against skids would be, combat landings are done hands-on, in other words manually. It would be very difficult to predict where  an incoming viper, flying fast, would end up once it would hit the deck - depending on the angle of the craft at the time of impact, the ship could end up anywhere in the flight pod which is a potentially dangerous scenario.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on January 03, 2008, 08:33:29 PM
I sense a physics debate in this thread...;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on January 03, 2008, 09:33:40 PM
The X-15 used two rear skids and a nose wheel landing gear configuration, and it's pretty much the closest thing to a Viper ever built as far as speed, altitude and raw thrust goes... Then again, their landing gear were not used as a take-off gear but exclusively as landing gear. They didn't take off, they were carried into flight under the wing of B-52.

I suppose a land-base operated Viper would likely need to use wheeled landing gear or some kind of catapult launch system - kinda like the launch tube without the, eh, tube part of it. :p


What comes to skidded helos - of course they don't (usually) land at high ground speed. However, even helicopters have to taxi on the ground, either by themselves or with something pushing/pulling them to hangars to taxiways and takeoff/landing sites.

Also, oftentimes on autorotation landings the helo still has some forward velocity when it touchdowns, especially if the pilot doesn't want to flare too high (like, if the tail rotor could hit the ground). Whether or not the chopper topples over it's nose depends on the friction and the position of CoG on the plane.

Then, of course, there's this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xX4TuwePuw)... I'd say there's plenty of forward velocity there on that "touch'n go" maneuver (which looks rather... incredibly foolishly dangerous despite whatever skillz the pilot has.:nervous:

I would imagine that autorotation landings with skidded helos would be made on, say, the grass/ground next to the runway rather than on asphalt surface...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: newman on January 03, 2008, 10:24:32 PM
The X-15 landed on a dry lakebed. Considerably less friction then *clang skreetch* metal to metal.. and it's nose gear still had a wheel.
Skidded helos can't taxi without external assistance. Only ones with wheels can do that. As for auto-rotation landings, they're only used in emergencies, and horizontal speed is rarely high. If they do have some forward velocity, it is nowhere near that of a viper combat landing, not if you expect the crew to survive. Too high forward speed, and the friction causes the chopper to flip over, destroying the rotor and sending it's pieces flying around, which has been known to cause fatalities in a relatively large area around the crash site.
Seriously, there's a reason why you only see skids on fast fighters in sci-fi and not in real life.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Water Viper on January 03, 2008, 10:32:25 PM
Helis can skid on the ground.A friend of mine (exNam vet) told me a story of his Huey sliding down a mountain after the wind veered on touchdown on top of it.Crazy days.
In WW2 the early Ar234,s used skids to land,as did the Me163.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on January 04, 2008, 12:03:39 AM
I find it interesting and informative that those several thousand hours of helicopter flight time in my logbook, including some instructor time in a skid bird, leaves me so utterly clueless as to the physics of how landing a helo works.  :lol:  

Landing with forward velocity is a non-event, it's preferred in most emergency situations.  Bad things happen when landing with sideways velocity, wheels or skids.  We practice skids over grass to save the shoes but the fields were flattened and packed.  I would prefer an emergency skid landing on a hard surface because you know you will slide, even if a little sideways.  In grass, dirt or -"other"- you never know when something catches you and you get dynamic rollover. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoHd5LePyVc&feature=related) :eek2:   Almost been there, almost done that  --  but that's a story that involves the FBI, my skivvies, truckers, bullets in the brain, missing classified material and Las Vegas baby! :biggrin1:

Skids work fine people.  They are simple and rugged.  Ceramic composite skid shoes provide wonderfully controlled wear on the bird and don't hurt surfaces like metal hardly at all.

We use wheels on earth because we have a steady 1G, all the time, and we need to go from the runway to the flight line once the landing is complete - without generating excess downwash.  Just a touch of thruster lifts a Viper for taxi once the combat landings are complete.  No skidding at all on a routine landing.  And for hangar work, taxi dolly's are all in a day's work. How do you think Starbuck & Co pushed all those Mk-II Vipers from the starboard pod to the port one?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: David cgc on January 04, 2008, 12:47:27 AM
Actually, come to think of it, aside from the miniseries and maybe a in the first season, I don't remember ever seeing any sort of dolly or rig being used to move a Viper or a Raptor. This despite them frequently being seen being moved in and out of the launch tubes by the deck crew (not to mention the Raptors frequently taxiing up and down the hanger under their own power). Apparently, the props have wheels hidden inside those skids, though I'd imagine the "real" Vipers and Raptors have something a bit sexier to allow their skids to move as smoothly as wheels would in the hanger. Maybe an artificial gravity plate inside the skids. While landing, it can be turned off so the ship stops on the deck, but once inside, it can be dialed up to reduce the friction enough that a couple of guys can push a full Viper into a launch tube without any trouble.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Typhis19 on January 04, 2008, 01:52:46 AM
Superconducting magnets( http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=I3SWOGLUMA0 ) have enough interesting properties to suggest that they themselves could provide an appropriate landing skid when landing on a metal surface, Magnet skids make the most sense in my mind. As stated; simple, easy. You could clamp down or repel, knowing that the Colonies were once incredibly sophisticated beacons of automation and technology, i would think that their ability to control a magnetic field would be far superior to our rudimentary knowledge, and they can be ceramic too, stronger than steel, higher heat tolerances(depending), i wouldn't be surprised if Galactica didn't have more than a few Ceramic Composites in her. Ceramics just aren't as flexible as metal's. A flat pad is a pretty good spot for a ceramic magnet. Remember, in this universe Basestar's and Centurian's were once Colonial frontline forces. Their army was immortal until it turned on them. I would think that magnetic skids would be well within their technological capabilities. You could theoretically direct the repulsive force from the skid magnets to make the craft move. No wheels required, no fluids, no complicated spare parts, just a magnet. My observation of Colonial craft suggest that Anti-Grav tech would probably only have enough power once the engines were running hot, but still not effective enough, as Raptors have landing thrusters. So i'm not even sure if they do have a kind of Anti Gravity, but i don't see how a viper could fly on stubby wings like that, again, probably greater understanding of airfoils.

No arrestor's would be required on a battlestar.

I'd like to know if ejecting is in the works at all, could play a little movie like they did on the game Starlancer, where ejecting either got you killed, captured, or sometimes a court martial. Show a little clip of a Raptor shining it's light on the pilot, then go to the replay screen.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Sidestep on January 27, 2008, 02:29:43 PM
Razor Spoiler

[spoiler] Just watched Razor again last night and was wondering if there will be a mission where you have to shoot down a TOS raider in the landing pod the same as Starbuck does after nearly getting blown up by Pegasus' guns? Could be a difficult manoeuvre to pull off without bouncing all over the hangar deck? [/Spoiler]
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on January 27, 2008, 02:47:16 PM
As soon the final release is out, you can do such a mission by yourself, if the DEVs don't implement the happenings from Razor.

All the ships needed will be ingame, so the chance that SOMEONE makes a similar mission is there.

It only requires some events and some waypoint settings.
Piece of cake...;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cl1nt on January 27, 2008, 02:48:49 PM
Line up then glide through.. simple.. just gotta make sure you don't get frakked by a raider carcass ;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: badin on March 09, 2008, 10:59:53 PM
start up sequence like in steel battalion for the campaign missions
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Stez on March 10, 2008, 02:05:36 AM
A pilotable battlestar? :D

That's probably just one of those pipe dream wishes. But it's cool to think about. I would love to command one of those things during a Cylon raid.

I'd also love to have just a simple SP map with no objectives, where you can just fly around the fleet as the fleet is making its way across the galaxy. Maybe just something to practice maneuvers, or practice landing and taking off.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Fish on March 10, 2008, 04:04:42 AM
Quote from: Stez;93759
A pilotable battlestar?


Not in BtRL. There may be other games/mods that allow you to do this, but it is outside the scope of this project. Some of these other games are linked to in older threads that you may be able to find.

The other idea sounds good, and certainly easy enough. It could be a non-campaign mission available from the tech room database, called "Joyride" or something. Sometimes I like being able to explore both the capabilities of my ship, and the exterior of others, without having to worry about any in-universe objectives or limits.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on March 12, 2008, 03:43:52 AM
Could The Tech Data Center have the Missions at the top of the list with the Tech Center under it? Just when I try missions I constantly hear the MS Sally voice talking about the MkII everytime I go to try another mission. Sort of wears it out.

Might want something telling people to drag the ship choices out onto the mission groups. I just figured out thats how I can use the ship choices last night lol!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on March 12, 2008, 07:39:06 AM
If MS-Sam really annoys you, you can turn him off for just the techrooms from the speech tab of the launcher.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Sidestep on March 12, 2008, 09:11:58 AM
Is there any chance of the mission in Exodus Part 2 where the vipers jump into the atmosphere and take out the watch tower and the gate before dogfighting with the raiders in the atmosphere being included?

I'm guessing it will be a resounding NO, but if you don't ask....
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on March 12, 2008, 12:25:10 PM
Quote from: Sidestep;93890
Is there any chance of the mission in Exodus Part 2 where the vipers jump into the atmosphere and take out the watch tower and the gate before dogfighting with the raiders in the atmosphere being included?

I'm guessing it will be a resounding NO, but if you don't ask....

You mean something like that? :D

(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8733/screen0025xn3.jpg)


Hm, gravity effect has to be added to the game engine, and as soon this is done, atmospheric missions are no problem.
The entry itself, well, probably with a trick, but it would require a frakking awful lot of work to simulate the entry in a atmosphere, since the engine doesn't support this, yet.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Sidestep on March 12, 2008, 12:30:18 PM
Yep, something along those lines. Even without the entry, it would be a nice change to do an atmospheric mission with a few ground targets (If they are possible) before an atmospheric dogfight.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on March 12, 2008, 12:39:00 PM
It's damn hard to find models that serve as groundtargets, and there is one other thing: the AI

I tested this mission weeks ago and sometimes the AI has no problems with the ground, and sometimes seems it has a death wish, bouncing permanently into the flora.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Wanderer on March 12, 2008, 12:43:44 PM
Current btrl flightmodel doesn't suit for atmospheric flight. First you would need alternate entry for the atmospheric vipers and raiders. Second you would need to script in gravity & lift and possibly air resistance. And then use certain precautions to make sure AI collisions with landscape would be at minimum. Immobile ground targets are trivial to do but mobile ones are problematic.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on March 13, 2008, 11:26:28 PM
The AI messes up quite a bit with colliding objects often.
I have not really gotten an idea how to give it some sense of objects yet.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on March 14, 2008, 12:34:03 AM
The AI only needs three states and a plan.  Verified good plans avoid hitting things. That would require a total gut and replace though.  Worked well in FEAR.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on March 14, 2008, 03:37:33 AM
When they start to do CG manuevers in a dogfight they get pretty lost  :p
Makes it fun to see them slam into stuff I kept aware of though :D

I was just wondering if the head turning padlock feature might come out with a patch?
I really miss this from my sims of past.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on March 18, 2008, 12:08:14 AM
BTW, is this something worked on in the MANTIS or Open FS2 forums I can look at the code sarrounding it? I'm a script kitty idiot dabbling in a ton of code formats without really mastering them, but I would love to undertand how it is integrated into the model. C or C++ based? I've been fiddling around in C# and ASP.NET for business apps and SQL for about 7 years.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on March 18, 2008, 07:54:40 AM
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,41234.msg842224.html#msg842224

That's how to get hold of the code. We've actually moved to SVN now and are still shaking the bugs out/reorganising after the move but that code is less than a month old so it shouldn't be mostly up to date.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on March 19, 2008, 12:30:52 AM
Thanks again Kara, I could not get Max4 to work I got a full boxed version but the stupid cdilla won't let me do anything with it. Apparently it no longer works with XP SP2 or definately Vista. I do however have Rhino v3 up and running and doing some modeling with it. I tried the link in your FAQ and that guys Rhino tutorial site is down. Know if the guy has the info available somewhere still?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Thaeris on March 19, 2008, 02:40:47 AM
After a few weeks of reading through this forum, I've finally decided to join...

I have two points at this time to bring to the discussion which I think should be adressed: First, if you've finished the campaign and decide to fool around with a few things, you'll notice that if you're "adventurous" and try to land on something, say, an asteroid, you will gently sink through its surface until you are able to fly beneath the surface of the rock... where there isn't a tunnel... this is probably something that should be fixed.

Next, I've read something about atmospheric flight in the sim, which would be quite awsome. I'm curious if someone would be able to use X-Plane to create a reasonably realistic flight model for an aircraft; I could easily pull up the last flight model export file from the program of the last aircraft I flew with it (which might have even been a Viper...).

-Thaeris
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on March 19, 2008, 06:49:28 AM
Quote from: Thaeris;94348
Next, I've read something about atmospheric flight in the sim, which would be quite awsome. I'm curious if someone would be able to use X-Plane to create a reasonably realistic flight model for an aircraft; I could easily pull up the last flight model export file from the program of the last aircraft I flew with it (which might have even been a Viper...).

-Thaeris


While that's a nice idea, it won't work.  X-Plane has a full finite element aerodynamic model and every X-Plane model is built from the ground up to work with that.  Freespace's and by extension BtRL's flight model is metaphorically not even on the same continent as a finite element aero model.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on March 19, 2008, 08:26:34 AM
Quote from: Thaeris;94348
I have two points at this time to bring to the discussion which I think should be adressed: First, if you've finished the campaign and decide to fool around with a few things, you'll notice that if you're "adventurous" and try to land on something, say, an asteroid, you will gently sink through its surface until you are able to fly beneath the surface of the rock... where there isn't a tunnel... this is probably something that should be fixed.


Problems like that with exporting models are one of the main reasons you haven't seen many capships so far except in the videos. We should have it all sorted out for the main release though.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Thaeris on March 19, 2008, 08:29:40 AM
This is very true; I just thought a shot in the dark might yeild some result if none other than blowing an alley cat into several large pieces...

To continue on with atmospheric flight, would it be possible to use a straight blue (or whatever color atmosphere) skybox for the main atmospheric area while using nebulae as clouds/fog/dust? many rendering options could (possibly) quickly and efficiently soved in this manner,

-Thaeris
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: blowfish on March 19, 2008, 02:57:57 PM
Quote from: karajorma;94360
Problems like that with exporting models are one of the main reasons you haven't seen many capships so far except in the videos. We should have it all sorted out for the main release though.


Can't collision detection problems like that now be fixed with PCS2?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on March 19, 2008, 03:47:01 PM
Yep. But it will be a while before we can fix everything.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Jangiri on March 20, 2008, 03:55:27 AM
it it asking to much to want paralax oclussion mapping?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on March 20, 2008, 04:06:49 AM
Quote from: karajorma;94360
Problems like that with exporting models are one of the main reasons you haven't seen many capships so far except in the videos. We should have it all sorted out for the main release though.


I understand the complexity involved Kara. Not to mention the dedication to bring things as far along you and the crew already have. Thanks!
And I know you suffocated blue in the face a looooong time ago trying to answer the similiar questions over and over. I do a great deal of training and customer service, redesign, upgrades, new implementations, standards resolutions, etc.. for my AutoCAD interface along with technical issues related to IT with my regular job.
I'll try and see if I can find any info on the Rhino sites previous owner, if you know of someone with his email addy that would be great too! Perhaps he has it on file somewhere for Rhino. I know Rhino is fast to model & prototype in the environment, why I selected & used it at my last job instead of AutoCAD. Plus it was much more cost effective to work with and develop automation for.
With Rhino it appears mesh is the modeling type before exporting. I was just unsure what the easiest approach for file format on the export was?
I am just fiddling with a fighter to get with the process.

So far this is my file conversions list:
TrueSpace:
IMPORT = *.cob;*.asc;*.3ds;*.x;*.prj;*.dxf;*.lwb;*.lwo;*.geo;*.obj;*.iob;*.sob;*.ai;*.ps;*.eps
EXPORT = *.scn


LithuWrap
IMPORT = *.lum;*.obj;*.3ds;*.asc;*.lwo;*.x;*.dxf;*.cob;*.ms3d;*.nod;*.mdl;*.md2;*.md3;*.prm;*.smf;*.pof;*.oof;*.peo;*.geo;*.sod;*.l3d;*.3do;*.act;*.bdy;*.skn;*.bmf;*.mdc;*.ndo
EXPORT = *.lub;*.lut;*.luv

Rhino
IMPORT = *.3dm;*.3dx;*.rws;*.igs;*.iges;*.stp;*.step;*.dwg;*.dxf;*.3ds;*.lwo;*.ai;*.eps;*.raw;*.stl;*.vda;*.vml;*.wrl;*.obj;*.asc;*.csv;*.txt;*.xyz;*.cgo_ascii;*.cgo_asci
EXPORT = *.3dm;*.igs;*.iges;*.stp;*.step;*.obj;*.dwg;*.dxf;*.3ds;*.sat;*.x_t;*.lwo;*.raw;*.pov;*.udo;*.stl;*.vml;*.wrl;*.ai;*.wmf;*.rib;*.csv;*.vda;*.txt;*.slc;*.gf;*.mts;*.mtx;*.xlg
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Thaeris on March 20, 2008, 05:49:08 AM
The awkward geometry of the canopy does not impart a very Galacticaish feel. If you're interested in modeling some alternate types, you might look at these sites:

wolfsshipyard.mystarship.com/BSG_GNS.html

http://www.shipschematics.net/bsg/

Not to say that I'm trying to stamp out your creativity, but a good quantity of these ships give a good impression of what you would likely see in the Galactica universe.

Actually, if you were to apply an elongated Viper MkI or IV-style canopy (with a "solid" rear decking), this particular ship would look really quite good...

-Thaeris
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on March 20, 2008, 07:40:18 AM
A F-16/F-18 style bubble may look like an evolution of a Mk-VII canopy as well.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on March 20, 2008, 08:55:24 AM
I had a word with Sandwich (who made the Rhino tutorial) and it seems like he lost it when his webspace was pulled a while back.

I'd suggest asking on HLP on how to get a model from Rhino into the game. I'm sure people could explain it to you.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on March 20, 2008, 12:53:11 PM
Thanks :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Snagger on March 20, 2008, 08:01:07 PM
That 4-engined fighter is an intersting design and looks pretty good.  The only snag I really see with it is that it wouldn't fit down a launch tube, and since the MkII and MkVII both fit down the same tubes, it's a fair bet that all the models in between would too.  But if it's there to do a specialist job in small numbers, like the Stealth Star (of all the stupid, unimaginative names... :wtf: ) or "Laura"...

By the way, does anyone else find the Stealth Star ridiculous (easy to see visually and electronically, unlike the lashed-together desperate and accidentally invisible Laura.  Were the Colonial engineers that incompetent?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on March 20, 2008, 08:12:51 PM
Quote from: Snagger;94613

By the way, does anyone else find the Stealth Star ridiculous (easy to see visually and electronically, unlike the lashed-together desperate and accidentally invisible Laura. Were the Colonial engineers that incompetent?


Yes, they were, because
[SPOILER] Laura was build by a Cylon :) [/SPOILER]

and yes, they implemented the CNP software which allowed the Cylons to disable almost the entire fleet, although they ( and the Military ) knew that the Cylons can hack in every Computer.
It's stupid to think that the Cylons would not have the same ability like 40 years ago in the first Cylon War ( seen in s2 ep2 - Gaeta networked all the computers and a Raider tried to hack it, ok the Galactica is almost 50 years old but the Computers are not ).
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Thaeris on March 21, 2008, 03:33:24 AM
After flying through the campaign a few times, I've noted a problem held over from the original FreeSpace 2 in BtRL: the missile launch action. Much like FS2, the missiles shoot forward with what appears to be an initial charge, loose thrust and stop accelerating (or even come to a complete stop), and then shoot out at full power. I'm hoping this issue will be corrected by the time the next patch/full release comes out.

-Thaeris
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on March 21, 2008, 04:25:51 AM
TS is a horrible interface lol
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: blowfish on March 21, 2008, 04:44:34 AM
Quote from: KewlToyZ;94669
TS is a horrible interface lol


Welcome to Freespace modding ;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Adalla on March 21, 2008, 08:39:48 AM
I was talking with a buddy about the voice acting that we are going to do for a X-wing vs. TIE Fighter custom campaign (yes, we are old school ;)) and immediately BtRL's voice acting came to mind. I went to the BtRL demo folder, couldnt find anything, so then I went to youtube, and of course, there were some vids that people recorded of the demo campaign.

Then as usually happens with youtube, I ended up watching every other BtRL youtube video, and I got excited all over again about the show (Season 4!!!) and just as excited about the existance of such a game like BtRL which is every BSG fan's dream come true. That benchmark with normal maps and the Pegasus and Galactica both fighting it out with Base Stars is insane amazing.

Well then, as I watched all this I started daydreaming about how cool the end product is going to be, but then, with this sort of thing, it makes us dream so much, that in the end it is easy to get disappointed because BtRL is so close to being a dream come true for so many of us, and if it fails to truly satisfy us, it'd be shame.

And then...I remembered about this thread and the fact that the game it not done yet, and that the Dev's actually have a thread for taking input on what the fans want to see implemented in the game!

Well, I read the last few pages and I see that atmospheric flight and missions has been covered extensively. I'll just say that of course, having atmospheric and planetary missions would just make BtRL come that much closer to the "dream coming true".

But let me remind the Devs of something else that is particularly important for me. As a real world pilot, and aero engineer and huge fan of all things aerospace, I always liked the BSG show for it's realistic nature. It is so thrilling for me because being realistic, it is that much easier to believe in it and love it.

Anyways, to get to the point. One of the things that fascinates me the most about BSG is all the flight ops aboard Battlestars. That means starting from approach towards the Flight Pod, to landing, recovery, hangar ops, and launch back into space.

In fact one of my favorite things to watch in the show is all footage of the Flight Pods, hangars, launch tubes, landing deck etc, and landing/launch ops.

So what I ask the BtRL Devs to consider (i think I might have asked something similar some 650+ posts ago) is to include both in the ship modeling and in the mission design, realism in the launch/landing/recovery ops before and after missions.

That means, I'd love for a mission to start you in the Viper (or Raptor) cockpit on the hangar deck. Then if we could get some footage sequence showing the Viper being moved to a launch tube (or the Raptor to an elevator platform). And then you get to launch and see the whole thing from the cockpit as you launch through the tube, or in the case of a Raptor, where you have to wait for the elevator to take you up, and then you get clerance and take off and fly out of the Flight Pod.

Similarly, for landing sequence, either combat landing or normal landing, fly into the Pod, land, and position yourself onto one of the elevator platforms, then push a button and see yourself lowered to the hangar deck/airlock.

From there, have some automated movment simulating the crew pushing you into the final parking place for the VIper or Raptor.

A well modeled and detailed Landing deck, and a well modeled and detailed hangar deck with other Vipers and Raptors just sitting around, and stairs, heck even mock people or objects, I dont know what the SCP engine's limits are...but I'd be even happy with a high detail texturing of the hangar deck, as long as there are the elevators and launch tubes, and it's all connected.

Of course, for those who couldnt care less about all this, you could always have the option of pressing a button and skipping the entire sequence, finding yourself in space.

That would cator to both simulator and realism lovers like myself, as well as to those who just want to get on with it and shoot stuff.

This, along with 2 other things, is the only thing I'll ever request, so I hope that the Devs will at least give it serious consideration.

Besides the hangar deck, launch tube, and landing/launch ops, I'll briefly state my other 2 wishes that would make this game perfect.

2nd wish is that there are some very detailed cockpits, perhaps with interactive buttons. I'm thinking F-16 Falcon or IL-2 Sturmovik type. However, if it's not possible, I understand, a simple 3d cockpit with high level textures will suffice :)

And my third and last wish, is one that many others have already mentioned. Atmospheric seamless re-entry and flight, and planetary missions.

And honestly, if the physics cant really be produced, that is fine. A simple re-entry glow effect getting larger and then smaller as you traverse the atmosphere would be enough. And just some change in the color of the atmosphere from the blackness of space to a gradual change to whatever the atmosphere's color is.

Some terrain texturing, and some detailed building models, dont really need much else.

I mean my buddy managed to create planets and atmosphere in a 10 year old game, in X-wing vs. TIE FIghter. It looks like crap, the planets are hexagonal, but you know what...it's still some of the must fun gameplay ever.

If I had to choose between my 3 wishes though, I'd choose the detailed Battlestar Flight Pods/hangars/landing decks and launch tubes.

That's how much I want this :)

So please consider :) I'm dont really know what's involved in making such things, but I know adding the hangar, launch tubes and some elevators would not be the most difficult modeling job compared to what has already been done with the models.

Thanx for listening, sorry for the lengthy post.

I truly hope some of these things that I mentioned come true.

Best of luck, and thanx again for doing this.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: muspilli on March 22, 2008, 03:04:31 PM
Hello guys and girls.

I have a few suggestions that I hope you like.

1. Manoeuvering thruster sounds - As I read through this thread I came across someone who suggested manoeuvering thruster sounds, but the next poster's counter argument was that it could get rather irritating. Well, what if you made it so that the thruster sounds only played when the main engine was switched off, like when the viper is gliding or stationary. That could give the effect that the main engine is so loud that it drowns out the thruster sounds.

2. No sound in space - Now I know that Galactica has some sound in space but I've always wanted to play a game where there wasn't. At least no sounds from other ships or missile noises or your bullets hitting the target and so on. I don't know how hard it would be to make this work but I think it would be really cool if it was available as an option.

3. Per axis sensitivity settings? I think this might help guys that have the twisty joystick and use the twist function for yawing.

4. Proximity warnings - These would be cool when getting too close to asteroids and stuff. Would definitely add to the atmosphere I think. I think i heard it when Kat almost got hit by the asteroid bits that Hotdog blew up in the training run with the new CAG.

One thing that I've noticed though, is that the main engine sound appears to not work as expected with glide. Either that or I don't know what I'm talking about. Sometimes, I'm flying along at full throttle and I enable glide (I keep flying straight though) and the engine sound doesn't stop immediately.

And that's it, the other ideas I had have already been mentioned. Other than that, all the other suggestions I've read are great and if even half of them end up in the final this game is going to rock!

Great game so far, and thanks for listening! Can't wait for the full release.
- muspilli
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: meleardil on March 22, 2008, 08:59:35 PM
The per axis sensitivity setting would be really good... that one is a good idea. Would improve the game a lot!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Swifty on March 22, 2008, 10:02:55 PM
Quote
No sound in space - Now I know that Galactica has some sound in space but I've always wanted to play a game where there wasn't. At least no sounds from other ships or missile noises or your bullets hitting the target and so on. I don't know how hard it would be to make this work but I think it would be really cool if it was available as an option.
We already added this feature. Just turn down the sound effects in Options.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on March 22, 2008, 10:19:25 PM
Quote from: Swifty;94854
We already added this feature. Just turn down the sound effects in Options.


Doesn't it also affect your ship's own sounds that would normally propagate along the hull structures into the cockpit?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: guitarfan01 on March 23, 2008, 03:54:52 AM
I think he was being slightly smart-alec.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Thaeris on March 24, 2008, 04:17:14 AM
This thought came to me but a few moments ago:

In a few previous posts, certain members were dissatisfied with the "afterburner." I still have no problem with the facility, as, well, with my interpretation of what systems the ships are using for maneuvers in relation to the fact that it is a game, handling is good in general.

For those who are a bit annoyed by some of the characteristics currently borne by the AB, I would like to suggest a possible solution:

Currently, carrying out maneuvers will cause the ship to slightly accelerate/decelerate depending on what type of maneuver is executed. The same principle can apply to the afterburner: Maneuvers will cause the ship to loose or gain speed as in normal flight, with the exception that the AB will accelerate the ship to the maximum speed allowed by the ship's computers (or whatever else you assign for the reason of its behavior). This I believe is already part of the current coding. The difference is here: If the vessel continues on a straight path, no loss in acceleration will be observed. If, however, the vessel deviates from that vector and thus achieves a new one, the speed acquired from the AB will be reduced by the fraction of n/90 (90 is in degrees) where n ranges from 0 to 90. This equation ([v+b]-[b*(n/90)where n is 0 to 90deg], v is velocity/speed, b is "boosted" speed) assumes that by making a 90deg turn, the ship has completely altered course from the previous direction of the "boosted" run and has lost all of the augmented energy, thus reverting to the ship's normal allowed top speed until the afterburner is hit again.

I believe this is a novel idea that would satisfy some of the physics guys out there (like myself, though I'm simultaneously indifferent about its implementation) and some of the people who can't stand afterburner due to the fact that you can glide at a higher speed than normally allowed. Simultaneously, I'm not sure that this is even going to be considered for implementation. As I said, though, it is a novel idea...

Also, for the sound issue, if there is one, a separate control for internal and external sounds could possibly be added, allowing for complete customization of sound effects. Cool.

-Thaeris
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: muspilli on March 24, 2008, 12:59:15 PM
Quote from: Herra Tohtori;94860
Doesn't it also affect your ship's own sounds that would normally propagate along the hull structures into the cockpit?


Herra Tohtori's got it. I guess i should've explained better. Sorry :)

- muspilli
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on March 24, 2008, 03:12:15 PM
Thaeris that sounds like a great direction with the physics modeling.
For one thing I have witnessed games ruined by tweaked demands from some loud spamming by a few individuals in a group. The physics engine ended up with an exploit where you could do a 180 and gain on an opponent flying straight through. Completely ruined the characteristics of the game as well as the tactics of engagement. To this day it is still the same way which was why I left.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: TESLA on March 24, 2008, 03:41:51 PM
wheres my coffee cup holder!!! :mad2:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on March 25, 2008, 10:56:41 PM
Push the CD Rom button and Voila! :p
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Canadian on March 29, 2008, 02:52:39 AM
When you release the next patch, could you guys include normal maps for the ships already in the demo?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on March 29, 2008, 04:23:36 AM
Quote from: KewlToyZ;95179
Push the CD Rom button and Voila! :p


Heheheh... Although do not forget to remove whatever you put in it at shutting down your system :P
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Wolfy on March 29, 2008, 12:43:59 PM
Quote from: Canadian;95350
When you release the next patch, could you guys include normal maps for the ships already in the demo?


oh, I like that idea. But obviously only if you have the Normal Maps done, otherwsie including a half finished normal map might be slightly silly...

but i know the devs are more cleer than that :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on March 30, 2008, 02:47:48 AM
Botanical cruiser never had FTL in the first episode, so nix it in making the Fleet?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cl1nt on March 30, 2008, 07:00:06 AM
There were 2 Botanical Cruisers in the fleet before the jump in the mini.

One made the jump, the other didn't.

I can't recall if it's still in the fleet though, it was for a while. May have been destroyed/dismantled. Don't recall seeing it after New Caprica. And I'd guess that'd be the sort of ship they'd dismantle to colonise.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Wolfy on March 30, 2008, 11:28:59 AM
yeah, there was atleat one untill the end of season 2, but i too dont recall seeing it afterwards. maybe it got hit my the nuke in Cloud Nine?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Knoken on March 30, 2008, 01:32:36 PM
It made it through the starcluster. So it's still there.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: TESLA on March 30, 2008, 02:23:45 PM
Quote from: KewlToyZ;95179
Push the CD Rom button and Voila! :p


hmmmm could work :lol:


now i need a small portable oven to make little cookies
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on March 30, 2008, 02:38:50 PM
Quote from: TESLA;95496
hmmmm could work :lol:


now i need a small portable oven to make little cookies


Disable/ destroy the cooling unit of your GFX card.
That should do it. :nod:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on March 30, 2008, 05:25:34 PM
5 lbs magnet on the CPU
And pinholes in the water cooling... :D
Could be a fairly dangerous steamer, make sure you have plenty of fuses and a fire extinguisher.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Thaeris on March 31, 2008, 10:06:12 PM
Sounds like you've begun the process of devising the first true all-in-one computer... No other concievable appliances needed!

-Thaeris
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on April 01, 2008, 05:06:31 AM
A little silicone with the silicon and we got ourselves a Cylon model =P
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on April 01, 2008, 07:06:35 AM
Try to keep on topic please guys. You do know that I have to READ this thread when I'm assigning coding tasks, right? I'd appreciate it if I was only finding discussions of feature requests rather than whatever nonsense you felt like talking about today.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Felix 039 on April 01, 2008, 08:59:26 AM
how about being able to "pilot" Battlestars and basestars? and create a campaign mission of Battlestars and Vipers VS Basestars and Raider. i seem to recall there's a part where the colonials gather a huge fleet and fight the cylons
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Fish on April 01, 2008, 09:26:31 AM
As mentioned many times on the forums: not in this game. This game is about fighter combat, not fleet commanding.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Wolfy on April 01, 2008, 10:26:05 AM
agreed. A battlestar would be no fun to command anyway. the FS2 engine is designed so u only fre forward weapons, so youd hve about 4 guns at your command, which would be no fun. how would you control the rest of the weapons, how would you maske the guns you control tilt, etc etc.

If you want to be able to control  bttlestar, to be honest, you need a mod for somthing like Free Lancer. Or if you want to control a fleet, you need this mod for Armada 2 (like this mod which is still under development): http://z10.invisionfree.com/Battlestar_Armada/index.php?act=idx
Title: Man 42 pages is a lot of posts to read...
Post by: docfu on April 01, 2008, 12:44:02 PM
1. Nebula support (but instead of FS2's LSD Nebulae, instead have one thats black dust, one that's dark brown dust, and one that's yellow/white for missions taking place near stars.

(This also requires that the graphics for asteroid explosions and possibly regular explosions be re-rendered with white backgrounds).

I doubt there is any way to do Freelancer's style of asteroid fields/ice fields/dark nebulae in Freespace2 due to the engine design but maybe something could be coded in on top fo the debris system for effect.

2. Ability to randomize enemy wing names on mission start. The game is no challenge if you know that "Tau 2" is always going to attack "Target B". Maybe even recode a standard Dradus naming system.

3. There appears to be a bug between glide and the throttle, Glide so your engines shut off, then throttle down and up and you have partial thrust but maintain a higher speed.

4. My Saitek X52 has several trim adjustments not in use. Any chance for making things like "Volume Control" and "Hud Brightness/Color" adjustable based on the trim settings? Besides thrust I can't think of any in-game functions that need slider. Although an adjustable radar range would be cool.

5. INTERESTING MISSIONS: Not every mission needs to be a bloodbath like in Freespace 2/X-Wing/Tie Fighter/Homeworld or any other arcade game. I just played through Derelict for Freespace 2 and some of the most interesting missions were ones where you just muck about for once and nothing happens.

This would be a great way for building character relationships in the game. Escort missions (during the downtimes in season 1 / 2) for instance or maybe flying out and being prepared to shoot down the prison ship would be interesting examples. (Even though nothing happens happens it still makes you feel a little bit more a part of the game.)

Another one that comes to mind is the mission where Boomer disables all of the cylons coming in for attack and so it becomes a shooting gallery. Something that could make this mission new would be to have a control raider or cylon transport that is jamming communication and once it is destroyed the remaining raiders shut down...

A final mission idea is the classic "Don't kill Starbuck" mission from the time she crashes whichever moon it was and hops in the raider. Have a dogfight between Vipers and Raiders without functional IFF for targeting. One raider is actually a friendly and if its destroyed mission over.

6. Probably the most difficult to add on and I don't know if it would match BSG's taste, but anyone that has played "Steel Battalion" knows the bonus's that post-processing effects can give to a game to make the image a little brighter/darker/bleached or otherwise off color. I'd imagine the designers are going for a feel that matches the CGI in the series.

7. Those totally wild zoom in and shake the camera cutscene effects from the series. I cannot stress enough the importance of copying bad design to make something feel more authentic and in a way it would really complement external ship views...

(This last one is if the developers are bored and looking for things to try.)

8. Any chance for modifying the sound of an asteroid exploding to have the sound of dust rocks hitting the cockpit/ship if too close? I think asking for crackable glass on the cockpit would be an annoyance but the sound effect shouldn't be too hard.

9. Randomized flak - At least for the videos on youtube, the flak from a distance appears to go in poofs and phases and reminds me of X-Wing whenever a star destroyer would attack a large ship, all of the guns fired in perfect sync. I'd rather have a game that moves realistically vs one that just looks realistic but still feels like a computer game.

10. From the Season 4 Previews, Cylon blood on the cockpit. (Well, only if you have time to break the glass first from asteroid debris).

11. For those of us without TrackID: Ability to look around the cockpit smoothly using a mouse(emulated on the X52 joystick) and reset to center view with a mouse click. (Steel Battalion did this and it worked pretty well for looking around.)

12. Alternate mouse aiming (freelancer/space interceptor style) for those without joysticks.

I'll be thinking of more as season 4 begins.

Thanks and keep up the good work.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Turey on April 02, 2008, 03:13:36 AM
Quote from: docfu;95666

A final mission idea is the classic "Don't kill Starbuck" mission from the time she crashes whichever moon it was and hops in the raider. Have a dogfight between Vipers and Raiders without functional IFF for targeting. One raider is actually a friendly and if its destroyed mission over.


That would be a great multi co-op mission.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Sparky on April 02, 2008, 03:44:31 AM
Or better yet if you could play as Starbuck in that situation.  You'd need to pilot your raider within very close range of a Viper for a few seconds without getting killed.  Or alternativly,

[spoiler] you could be in something similar to Bulldog's scenario, of having to dodge Viper fire in a damaged raider for several minutes until the CIC realized that you were one of their own.  Also, if you fire back, Galactica considers you hostile, and will either send continuous waves of Vipers or jump away, leaving you stranded. [/spoiler]
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Fish on April 02, 2008, 04:47:07 AM
In accordance with the current (revised) spoiler policy (http://www.game-warden.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5929), as that is from season 3 it does not need spoiler tags. If you are going to include them, please state which episode/season the spoiler concerns as per the policy. If you're trying to make it easier for people, might as well go all the way. :)

Those kind of 'non-standard' scenarios are something I'm looking forward to seeing implemented in future releases!

Incidentally, if anyone wants to practise the skills that'd require, try the 3rd-party mission 'Problem Patrol' (created by Tikey). Like other 3rd-party missions, it's available from http://addons.teamwars.org/
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Felix 039 on April 02, 2008, 05:39:28 AM
Shipyard Siege

Team 1: Colonial
Team 2: Cylon

Colonial:
Shipyard X1
Battlestars (AI) X3
Battlestar (AI) X1 Reinforcement
Viper Mk VII (Player + AI) X3 Squadrons
Viper Mk II (AI) X1 Reinforcement Squadron
Raptors (AI) X1 Squadron

Cylon:
Resurruction Ship (AI) X1
Basestars (AI) X3
Cylon Raider (Player(For Multi?) + AI) X6 Squadrons
Cylon Raider (AI) X1 Reinforcement Squadron
Heavy Raider (AI) X1 Squadron
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Echelon9 on April 02, 2008, 07:52:26 AM
Quote from: Felix 039;95732
Shipyard Siege

Team 1: Colonial
Team 2: Cylon

Colonial:
Shipyard X1
Battlestars (AI) X3
Battlestar (AI) X1 Reinforcement
Viper Mk VII (Player + AI) X3 Squadrons
Viper Mk II (AI) X1 Reinforcement Squadron
Raptors (AI) X1 Squadron

Cylon:
Resurruction Ship (AI) X1
Basestars (AI) X3
Cylon Raider (Player(For Multi?) + AI) X6 Squadrons
Cylon Raider (AI) X1 Reinforcement Squadron
Heavy Raider (AI) X1 Squadron


I would absolutely love to play a mission, in and around a shipyard. Having some solid infrastructure to duck and dive in and out of while pursuing fighters, along with the possible idea of protecting one of the docked Battlestars until its sub-systems can be brought online and joining the battle would be awesome!

Sometimes dog-fighting out in empty space without any solid points of reference can get mighty repetitive...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: SFM Hobbes on April 02, 2008, 11:20:22 AM
I'd like to see a mission where a bunch of raptors, and a squadron of fighters being transported in a freighter like Colonial Movers (as in Hand of God) jump back to the fringes of colonial space and attempt to steal some mothballed or decommissioned ships from a scrapyard.  Right under the cylons noses.

The fighters have to protect the raptors long enough for them to dock onto one or several ships, start up their engines and jump them out.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cl1nt on April 02, 2008, 11:35:18 AM
I just like blowing shit up. Make more missions with that. ;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on April 02, 2008, 11:48:08 AM
Quote from: Cl1nt;95738
I just like blowing shit up. Make more missions with that. ;)



I tried Axem's ship creation tutorial ( great :yes:) lately, and i made a ship i can't classify.
it looks like a mix of the Refinery ship, the Astral queen and a Borg sphere.
We could use it as a colonial sewage/ purification ship.:biggrin1:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Sidestep on April 02, 2008, 12:27:24 PM
Quote from: Cl1nt;95738
I just like blowing shit up. Make more missions with that. ;)


Seconded :nod:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on April 02, 2008, 07:08:24 PM
Talking about blowing up things.. If I remember correctly this was mentioned by Herra Tothori months ago but I'd like to highlight it once again:

I'd like to see both side fighters suddenly exploding sometimes. Not necessarily by some most complex system, which takes into account the amount of damage absorved by time. Simply making this feature randomly sokmehow may fit the gap pretty well.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Wolfy on April 02, 2008, 08:30:36 PM
Im not really sure i like the sounds of that... i mean, we havent seen ships randomly blowing up yet, except when they where being shot at, which also isnt that random in war. If it was seen in the show, it might be added, but it hasnt been seen in the show
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on April 02, 2008, 08:38:57 PM
Eh?. Maybe I did not explain my self well.. I was talking about kills. When a fighter gets killed, it should instantly explode sometimes.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: takashi on April 02, 2008, 08:45:53 PM
request(s):

category: non-canon to new BSG
type: cameo
cameo appearance of: original cylon basestar and original battlestar
in: mutli missions

category: non canon, other universe, appearance
description: a BSG esque- freespace 2/1 ship appearing as a colonial experimental fightercraft/battlestar class



formal...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: David cgc on April 02, 2008, 09:11:09 PM
Quote from: Deckard;95776
Eh?. Maybe I did not explain my self well.. I was talking about kills. When a fighter gets killed, it should instantly explode sometimes.


It does, sometimes. You have to get be sure to get some overkill, though. To be in line with the show, they should probably explode instantly as often as they spin out of control in the game, and spin out of control as rarely as they explode instantly. I don't think that's really within the purview of the mod, though.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Wolfy on April 02, 2008, 09:45:26 PM
Deckard: Sorry, i didnt quite understand your post, but now that i do, nice idea.

To Takashi: the TOS style baseship will most likely be included in the mod, due to it being canon (Razor), along with the TOS style raider. Also, there are plans to include non canon ships, im presuming, and hoping, a couple of other Colonial capital ships will be included. However, non-canon ships, specially of the capital ships variety can wait. Theres already 3 classes of canon Battlestar (galactica type, Mercury class and Valkyrie type, as well as possibly an edited version of the Galactica type for it to appear like the Columbia in Razor Flashbacks), 3 different cylon baseships (starfish type, TOS type and the Gaurdian type).

Also, has anyone considered, seemingthe Galactica Type was the original class of battlestar and there where 12, its never mentioend there was just the original 12 battlestars during the 1st cylon war, could the more armoured battlestars acturally be another later class of ship? i mean, that war lasted about 5 years, a couple of classes could of been produced in that time. Or at least that keeps people that want the entire Galactica type to be the same armour config as Galactica...

But anyway, with 6 different battlestars, + the Bezerk + anything thats dhown in season 4 for whatever reaosn, we have enough to keep us going for now :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on April 03, 2008, 12:19:39 AM
The Cylon mining outpost attacked by going in through the loading conveyr room with a Viper. Season 1 Disc 4 "The Hand of God". Was a very kewl op for a mission!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: David cgc on April 03, 2008, 12:53:51 AM
Quote from: Wolfy;95787
Also, has anyone considered, seemingthe Galactica Type was the original class of battlestar and there where 12, its never mentioend there was just the original 12 battlestars during the 1st cylon war, could the more armoured battlestars acturally be another later class of ship? i mean, that war lasted about 5 years, a couple of classes could of been produced in that time. Or at least that keeps people that want the entire Galactica type to be the same armour config as Galactica...


Well, every Galactica-type battlestar we've seen in recent times that was apparently in active service (the one destroyed over Caprica, and the one that was docked at Scorpia) had the patchwork armor style, suggesting that that was the newer type. Assuming that they kept with the fanon of Columbia being the first Battlestar, it seems possible to me that the design had too much armor at first, and they realized some of it was just downright unnecessary after the first couple ships were finished, so they revised the line with armor plating only over the more critical parts of the ship.

That extra armor certainly didn't seem to help Columbia much.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on April 03, 2008, 02:32:27 AM
Wolfy; no prob, man :)

David cgc; AFAIK I've never seen a fighter insta-exploding in the game yet. You sure on that?

PS: The credit of this idea is for Herra Tohtori. I was just bringing it back.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Felix 039 on April 03, 2008, 03:14:38 AM
Quote from: Felix 039;95732
Shipyard Siege

Team 1: Colonial
Team 2: Cylon

Colonial:
Shipyard X1
Battlestars (AI) X3
Battlestar (AI) X1 Reinforcement
Viper Mk VII (Player + AI) X3 Squadrons
Viper Mk II (AI) X1 Reinforcement Squadron
Raptors (AI) X1 Squadron

Cylon:
Resurruction Ship (AI) X1
Basestars (AI) X3
Cylon Raider (Player(For Multi?) + AI) X6 Squadrons
Cylon Raider (AI) X1 Reinforcement Squadron
Heavy Raider (AI) X1 Squadron


I still think this would make a great mission if it doesn't kill the computer first
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Nuke on April 05, 2008, 07:50:39 PM
i want that blood splatter effect form the season 4 premier
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on April 05, 2008, 08:44:55 PM
Quote from: Nuke;96183
i want that blood splatter effect form the season 4 premier


That warn no blood spatter.  Even better, it was Brain Goo!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on April 05, 2008, 08:57:54 PM
Quote from: Nuke;96183
i want that blood splatter effect form the season 4 premier


Yeah, would be cool to have this effect.

Quote from: Enki;96197
That warn no blood spatter.  Even better, it was Brain Goo!


tasty!
New!! Cylon weeks at McRTFdonalds, the Cylon Brains Burger with double Algae, only 4.95 cubits
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: docfu on April 06, 2008, 01:38:42 AM
Quote from: docfu;95666


10. From the Season 4 Previews, Cylon blood on the cockpit. (Well, only if you have time to break the glass first from asteroid debris).

Thanks and keep up the good work.


See, this just proves people don't look before they leap.

I feel really stupid for quoting my own message on top of it.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Nuke on April 06, 2008, 03:21:42 AM
had you posted youre idea in an easy to read manor then i would have seen it. i have this rule, you see, if a message takes up a full screen, and you're writing is dull, i wont read past the 4th line of it.

also id like to point out the fact that it is exactly 21 hours and 45 minutes since the airing of the episode. face the fact that the community got a push from the premier and your post merely got buried and thus not read due to the influx of geeky forum posts from angsty teenage boys. grow up and deal with it.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on April 06, 2008, 03:23:50 AM
The number of Battlestars during the first war is speculative.
The only real numbers I heard mentioned in the re-imagined series,was that 30 Battlestars destroyed, Kara Thrace stated that to be a 1/4 of the fleet.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: blowfish on April 06, 2008, 04:20:09 AM
IIRC there were in fact 12 original battlestars (I believe that this was mentioned in the Miniseries by Doral).
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Steven on April 06, 2008, 04:43:49 AM
Okay, I didn't really read all 43 pages (way to lazy) so if u've gotten this b4. sorry. Anyways, I myself don't own a joystick. Could you maybe add a secondary control scheme for us keyboard junkies?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cl1nt on April 06, 2008, 05:50:20 AM
There were 12 original battlestars, which includes the Galactica.

There are other battlestars of Galactica's type, which don't belong to that original 12.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on April 06, 2008, 07:21:01 AM
Quote from: karajorma;95657
Try to keep on topic please guys. You do know that I have to READ this thread when I'm assigning coding tasks, right? I'd appreciate it if I was only finding discussions of feature requests rather than whatever nonsense you felt like talking about today.


I won't ask nicely again. :mad2:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: TESLA on April 07, 2008, 11:56:02 PM
Quote from: karajorma;96276
I won't ask nicely again. :mad2:


You never do

lol

Your dark powers emerge to the front


hmmmmmmmmmm the force is strong in this one
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: osakanone on April 08, 2008, 04:40:35 PM
In regards to making a landing work for a pilot:

Personally, my method would be to approach at about 50 m/s at a decent entry angle, engage glide and level out. About 100 meters off/internal of hanger, I'd slow to about 20 or 35 m/s and I'd let the impact slow me to a stop, since at such a low speed, it doesn't do too much damage - And it'd mean that you could add landing gear as a new system capable of being damaged.

When they hit things, you get a slightly different impact dynamic.

Landing could be a cue that confirms all three portions of landing gear are down on the deck and you're below a particular velocity (or even that your velocity & vector match that of the Galactica).

It's a shame strafing thrusters don't continue to function during glide. It's also a shame that you can't strafe, tap tab/burner key and apply afterburner fuel to your maneuvering lateral thrust.

It would be very interesting for something like the Blackbird, making it really weird to fly. But interesting maneuvers that rise could rise out of this could be say, pitching 90 deg up, sharp upwards thrust then nose down - Throwing you behind your target, much like how Starbuck did with the Cylon raider.


In terms of the control scheme for keyboard and mouse, I find WSAD strafing (Q & E rolling) favorable in my case (I've clocked maybe 200 hrs + in FS2's multiplayer and I'm far more comfortable with a mouse than I am a keyboard. Since it's easier, maybe you could "punish" players for using them by reducing the number of points a player makes at the end of a mission with a penalty.).

Oh! I also found a bug: Take a steep climb at full burn and you approach about 270. Then you switch to glide. Then nose about 40 degrees up or down (the velocity indicator should drop about 1/3rd), engage burners then release and VERY quickly re-engage glide along the new vector. Do this about three to six times (take your time) and you can max out at about 420 meters/sec. It's ideal for escapes but it's too quick for offensive use and you're very vulnerable while doing it.

What maneuvers have you found and what control scheme do you like?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Dragonfly on April 09, 2008, 07:00:47 PM
Quote
But interesting maneuvers that rise could rise out of this could be say, pitching 90 deg up, sharp upwards thrust then nose down - Throwing you behind your target, much like how Starbuck did with the Cylon raider.


You can actually do that with the controls as they are now just not super super fast. I use that sometimes if I end up jousting an opponent fly straight at them upward thrusters pitch down 90 degrees while hitting glide unload on the top of their ship and keep firing while rotating through another 90 degrees turn off glide etc etc. maneuvers like that will work better in the final release though when the "glide active only while button is depressed" option comes into play as the devs have mentioned implementing.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: eldain on April 11, 2008, 05:34:34 PM
Im mostly amazed by the ideas of other "poster's" on this topic, but in my idea i would like most to have :

shoot-down missiles (as discussed earlier) aswell it would be better(i Think) to slow down missiles a lot so you can outrun them as lee does in the mini series with a rocket targeted on collonial one .. it wouldnt require much coding
and would take care of fighters shooting eachother to hell with missiles while you cant avoid them because they are too manouvrable

as dicussed earlier destroyed moddels of cap ships.. im shure it wouldnt be much heavier for computer as you wouldnt ad more moddels but only changing them and by the way just a good animation would do aswell just no funky explosions from basestars blowing up in one big yellow disc but instead having a part of the basestar being blown away (and damiging other ships )before dissapearing somewhere of chart

real nuclear explosions from cylon misciles and gallactican nukes youd just have to combine normal explosions with an image from the sun (as it would look verry simmilar to the suns in teh demo) and adding a blast raddius  ...the fs2 game already has it listed under spec exp..... in the mission specs  for each fighter

anyway good luck and keep up the good work
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on April 11, 2008, 05:53:18 PM
"Glide only while button is pressed"
Nice feature!
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on April 11, 2008, 06:49:52 PM
Quote from: eldain;96933
it wouldnt require much coding


Usually that's the quickest way to end up with a growling SCP coder telling you "Well you code it then since you're such an expert"

In this case I happen to already have the code sitting in a diff on my hard drive thanks to one of our recruits so you narrowly managed to avoid a flaming. :p
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Herra Tohtori on April 11, 2008, 07:25:36 PM
Heck if I remember if this has been asked before - there are a lot of pages in this thread I haven't read - but is the FS2 yaw behaviour going to change at all in foreseeable future?

What I mean is that the "yaw" isn't actually yaw, it's a combination of yaw and roll. It works fine and intuitively and is satisfactory for the most time considering FS2 is an arcade space shooter, but I would welcome an option to use correctly behaving yaw control (without adding roll to the mix), considering BtRL aims for slightly more pseudo-realistic behaviour than FS2. When I want the ship to turn left, I don't always want to apply counter-roll to make it turn straight...

It would probably be welcomed addition for The Babylon Project as well.


Could probably use either a cmdline flag or AI_Profile to utilize the option.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angreifer on April 11, 2008, 07:59:33 PM
Wow, hadn't even noticed that there was a roll with yaw; but lo and behold, you're right. I agree, would be nice if yaw was pure yaw.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on April 11, 2008, 08:18:54 PM
I accepted it because of my aircaft sim experience and never noticed it.
In space this would be a thrust issue and not an effect of a surface generating forces and turbulence.
It would actually seem more arcadish to me in a flight sim sense but more true to form in a space based environment.
Nice catch Herra.
At the same time, if there is ever a venture toward an actual atmospheric mission, then the effect would remain more simulation effective as it stands.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on April 11, 2008, 08:18:55 PM
After flying at x2 time compression for a while... I'd suggest 3 new values x1.25, x1.50 and 1.75. Just for fun :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on April 11, 2008, 08:25:54 PM
I know I made my own ship tables and weapons for unlimmited ammo on offline missions.
I kept rebuilding the missions with my updated items inside the ArchAngel MOD.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on April 12, 2008, 01:30:58 AM
Re-Fueling ship for Re-arm?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Thaeris on April 12, 2008, 09:23:25 AM
I believe rearming and refueling has already been discussed to some degree already... The question is what sort of procedure will you be forced to take if the feature is implemented. Should you have to land (possibly on an elevator shaft), wait for the shaft to bring you into hangar, rearm, then launch through a tube, we're talking about a very cool but difficult to program (as I imagine it would be) process. At best landing in the landing pod and waiting for a small amount of time would represent the rearming process well. Of course, this only works when a cap ship is around...

-Thaeris
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: P-90_177 on April 12, 2008, 10:21:54 AM
Quote from: Thaeris;97062
I believe rearming and refueling has already been discussed to some degree already... The question is what sort of procedure will you be forced to take if the feature is implemented. Should you have to land (possibly on an elevator shaft), wait for the shaft to bring you into hangar, rearm, then launch through a tube, we're talking about a very cool but difficult to program (as I imagine it would be) process. At best landing in the landing pod and waiting for a small amount of time would represent the rearming process well. Of course, this only works when a cap ship is around...

-Thaeris


well in the show during flesh and bone i think when they're looking for kara, adama at one point orders a raptor out to refuel the vipers in mid flight so perhaps that's a possibility.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on April 12, 2008, 12:05:18 PM
Quote from: KewlToyZ;97004
Re-Fueling ship for Re-arm?

Haven't seen it do that in the show yet. So probably not.

Refuelling is another matter.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on April 12, 2008, 05:03:22 PM
Yeah I have been watching the DVD's hoping to see a refueling.
Although they reference it often enough, just doesn't ever get scripted in.
Re-arming has never been referenced, but since it was a game I was just curious.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Snagger on April 12, 2008, 07:54:41 PM
Refueling is in the show, though unseen.  A fair bet is that it would be usinga probe and drogue system like RAF, RN and USN aircraft, though the flying boom system would also be possible.  The reason I favour the probe and drogue is that aircraft which use it don't have externally visible markings when it's retracted, like Tornado F3, EFA and so on, while those which use the flying boom system have visible recievers and guidance markings.  The lack of aerodynamic drag on the drogue could be dealt with by having small retro rockets around the drogue or having it and the probe magnetised.

Rearming is unlikely, just like in real life.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: kizcat on April 12, 2008, 08:14:33 PM
uhhh, how about a little chat box thing in the multiplayer lobby? (i dunno if this has been said because im not gona go through 44 pages of post it will take a lifetime) and yeah, rearming? maybe just for bullets? maybe you fly to a little carrier thing (on of the ships that looks like it has lego blocks on it) and it has a hose like thing sticking out and you have to manuver the front of your viper onto it and you get more ammo? (just a thought)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: eldain on April 12, 2008, 08:23:21 PM
your completly righht with the missile thing karajorma, Im just interrested wether teh explosions will be done like the preview (see toppic on lanchtube video (if anyone wants to see it)) or in a more dramatic way.

also i was wonderin wether we would actualy blast centurions to shatters as in exodus, season 3... as i cant imagine the fs2 engine actually would support a complete 3d landscape

at last i would like to thank the person who did the coding on the missiles, he saved me some.... xD

eldain
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on April 12, 2008, 08:58:49 PM
Quote from: eldain;97135
your completly righht with the missile thing karajorma, Im just interrested wether teh explosions will be done like the preview (see toppic on lanchtube video (if anyone wants to see it)) or in a more dramatic way.

also i was wonderin wether we would actualy blast centurions to shatters as in exodus, season 3... as i cant imagine the fs2 engine actually would support a complete 3d landscape

at last i would like to thank the person who did the coding on the missiles, he saved me some.... xD

eldain


the engine can support a 3D landscape, and in theory ( requires animated? Centurion models, dunno if this is of interest for the DEVs though, since there is only Exodus ptII and a s2 episode where such thing happened ) it would be possible to blow up Centurions on watchtowers.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Crixx on April 12, 2008, 09:14:15 PM
Is it possible for collisions to be more deadly?

Smacking into raiders and taking 20% damage just doesn't feel right.

Instant death/heavy damage or temporary loss of control would make it something to be feared.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Turey on April 12, 2008, 11:10:23 PM
Quote from: Crixx;97144
Is it possible for collisions to be more deadly?

Smacking into raiders and taking 20% damage just doesn't feel right.

Instant death/heavy damage or temporary loss of control would make it something to be feared.


Try upping the difficulty level.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: eldain on April 13, 2008, 12:19:43 PM
Quote
Refueling is in the show, though unseen



refulling was done through raptors, as is said in the episode karais shot down and lants on some dessert moon (season 1)
 
eldain
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Crixx on April 13, 2008, 02:49:59 PM
Quote from: Turey;97163
Try upping the difficulty level.


'Doh, I are imbecile.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: bucky699 on April 14, 2008, 04:36:02 AM
This might be very hard if not impossible to do, or could have been suggested already (hey im not gunna read 45 odd pages of the one thread to be sure) but is it at all possible to try and get in atmosphere missions, like the New Caprica rescue op or just plain old other in atmosphere flight stuff.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Thaeris on April 14, 2008, 04:42:18 AM
Quote from: Snagger;97131
Refueling is in the show, though unseen.  A fair bet is that it would be usinga probe and drogue system like RAF, RN and USN aircraft, though the flying boom system would also be possible.  The reason I favour the probe and drogue is that aircraft which use it don't have externally visible markings when it's retracted, like Tornado F3, EFA and so on, while those which use the flying boom system have visible recievers and guidance markings.  The lack of aerodynamic drag on the drogue could be dealt with by having small retro rockets around the drogue or having it and the probe magnetised.

Rearming is unlikely, just like in real life.




Rearming in-mission is a good possibility, AS IN REAL LIFE. However, you'll need a support base to do it. For instance, the Galactica or some improvised vessel (think of the possibility of using a ship such as Colonial Movers for a covert operation; A "Hand of God"-like mission for insertion into a Cylon outpost [not the actual "Hand of God" mission, mind you] would be pretty fun-bomb up your Vipers and go to town!) would be required. To do this effectively, I precieve that implementing a "landing zone with re-arming facilities" would be required. As FreeSpace2 already has docking points (no idea how you use them-BtRL was my introduction to playing and using FS2), it is concievable that a "docking pad" or landing area (which would be similar to a landing pod in the Galactica or Pegasus) could be placed on certain ships and enabled/disabled depending on the mission. I say enabled/disabled as, say, you're flying a mission WITH the Galactica or Pegasus, you should not be allowed to re-arm at some random civilian vessel which normally would not retain military weaponry.

As a side note to re-arming operations, a re-armament limit would be good to impose, especially during early missions which would replicate the missions seen in the first season of BSG. Note that this limit would be cumulative-should there be a wingman command over the com such as "re-arm," your wingman returning to the carrier and replenishing his guns/ordnance would take one of those re-arming "slots" away from your force. From playing with FRED from time to time, I believe that I've seen the ability to place ships in "hangar." If making re-armaments similar to this "hold in hangar" function whilst not detracting from the total number of ships available in a given mission AND not detracting from game performance is possible, then implementing this feature would be GREAT! Yeah...:yes:

OK. One last off-tangent thought and then on to the final point-refueling. More on landing areas. This topic has been discussed in various parts of the forum, but as a feature request, I feel it prudent to put it here. Gravity. It is clear that the Galactica uses some sort of force generation to pull ships to the hangar bay in a directionalized manner; arguments over art-grav or magnetism is neglegible. It is also very clear that this force generation can be turned OFF. Thus, here is my request-have mission time periods/missions in general where this gravity can be either on or off in a given landing zone, and only have "gravity/attraction" affect vessels within the vicinity of the landing area. Thus, to land when there is no gravity, you would need to fire your thrusters to "put 'er on deck." The [precievably] magnetized landing gear of the ships will adhere to the deck once you're on it. However, I imagine that the 'Devs have probably already thought of this (go Devs!... well, that's a bit much...).

Righto, the last point (I'm sure I've killed someone from boredom at this point:devel:): Refueling! A "hose and drogue system" is the last thing you want in space. Thrusters to orient the device begs for trouble-a damaged tube and all the fuel blows up! Bad aim from the pilot knocks the thing around-you need a fixed mechanical arm like the Boeing boom system. Should no refueling be seen in the series, creative liberties will have to be taken. This is what I imagine should be used if nothing from the series is shown: A raptor with a modular fuel system similar to that of a "buddy refueling pack" will be implemenated-If such a refueling Raptor is seen in the show, I can almost guarantee you that this is what you'll see. (Note that using modular systems in Raptors would be really cool not only for armament, but mission-oriented packs as well. To illustrate, various weapons packages could be applied, as you would expect, as well as the refueling pack or even a "crew-retrieval Raptor"-no external differences from a standard ship, just a raptor assigned to pick up ejected pilots if the final game gives such a feature. The rescue Raptor and refueling Raptor would only really be useful to human players in multiplayer maps for obvious reasons-since this is REALLY off topic, I'll leave this to a later post if any interest is shown in the matter.) Anyways, this "buddy refueling pack" would feature a refueling arm which would connect to a sort of "single point refueling port" on a given ship (this should be standardized). Should fuel EVEN be a concern in the final release of the game, the pilot upon requesting refueling will be given a location to the "tanker." (What the tanker's flight path is depends on the FREDer [does it meet me or do I meet it, or both?]) The pilot will see a waypoint-like recticle in the HUD and fly as accurately as possible into the ceneter of the recticle; the tanker will fly at a set speed and vector AS LONG AS it will not crash into anything. Using the "match speed" command, the pilot will fly to a distance within a given tolerance of a given vicinity about the Raptor/other type of refueling ship, as well as within an acceptable orientation. "a" and "z", or whatever the user defines as thrusters for fore and aft orientation can be used to place the ship in the appropriate distance of the tanker after "match speed" is armed. Wait for refueling to be complete, and you're on your way! A refueling limit is also a good idea...

-Thaeris
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Thaeris on April 14, 2008, 04:42:27 AM
Quote from: Snagger;97131
Refueling is in the show, though unseen.  A fair bet is that it would be using a probe and drogue system like RAF, RN and USN aircraft, though the flying boom system would also be possible.  The reason I favor the probe and drogue is that aircraft which use it don't have externally visible markings when it's retracted, like Tornado F3, EFA and so on, while those which use the flying boom system have visible receivers and guidance markings.  The lack of aerodynamic drag on the drogue could be dealt with by having small retro rockets around the drogue or having it and the probe magnetized.

Rearming is unlikely, just like in real life.




Rearming in-mission is a good possibility, AS IN REAL LIFE. However, you'll need a support base to do it. For instance, the Galactica or some improvised vessel (think of the possibility of using a ship such as Colonial Movers for a covert operation; A "Hand of God"-like mission for insertion into a Cylon outpost [not the actual "Hand of God" mission, mind you] would be pretty fun-bomb up your Vipers and go to town!) would be required. To do this effectively, I perceive that implementing a "landing zone with re-arming facilities" would be required. As FreeSpace2 already has docking points (no idea how you use them-BtRL was my introduction to playing and using FS2), it is conceivable that a "docking pad" or landing area (which would be similar to a landing pod in the Galactica or Pegasus) could be placed on certain ships and enabled/disabled depending on the mission. I say enabled/disabled as, say, you're flying a mission WITH the Galactica or Pegasus, you should not be allowed to re-arm at some random civilian vessel which normally would not retain military weaponry.

As a side note to re-arming operations, a re-armament limit would be good to impose, especially during early missions which would replicate the missions seen in the first season of BSG. Note that this limit would be cumulative-should there be a wingman command over the com such as "re-arm," your wingman returning to the carrier and replenishing his guns/ordnance would take one of those re-arming "slots" away from your force. From playing with FRED from time to time, I believe that I've seen the ability to place ships in "hangar." If making re-armaments similar to this "hold in hangar" function whilst not detracting from the total number of ships available in a given mission AND not detracting from game performance is possible, then implementing this feature would be GREAT! Yeah...:yes:

OK. One last off-tangent thought and then on to the final point-refueling. More on landing areas. This topic has been discussed in various parts of the forum, but as a feature request, I feel it prudent to put it here. Gravity. It is clear that the Galactica uses some sort of force generation to pull ships to the hangar bay in a directionalized manner; arguments over art-grav or magnetism is negligible. It is also very clear that this force generation can be turned OFF. Thus, here is my request-have mission time periods/missions in general where this gravity can be either on or off in a given landing zone, and only have "gravity/attraction" affect vessels within the vicinity of the landing area. Thus, to land when there is no gravity, you would need to fire your thrusters to "put 'er on deck." The [perceivably] magnetized landing gear of the ships will adhere to the deck once you're on it. However, I imagine that the 'Devs have probably already thought of this (go Devs!... well, that's a bit much...).

Righto, the last point (I'm sure I've killed someone from boredom at this point:devel:): Refueling! A "hose and drogue system" is the last thing you want in space. Thrusters to orient the device begs for trouble-a damaged tube and all the fuel blows up! Bad aim from the pilot knocks the thing around-you need a fixed mechanical arm like the Boeing boom system. Should no refueling be seen in the series, creative liberties will have to be taken. This is what I imagine should be used if nothing from the series is shown: A raptor with a modular fuel system similar to that of a "buddy refueling pack" will be implemented-If such a refueling Raptor is seen in the show, I can almost guarantee you that this is what you'll see. (Note that using modular systems in Raptors would be really cool not only for armament, but mission-oriented packs as well. To illustrate, various weapons packages could be applied, as you would expect, as well as the refueling pack or even a "crew-retrieval Raptor"-no external differences from a standard ship, just a raptor assigned to pick up ejected pilots if the final game gives such a feature. The rescue Raptor and refueling Raptor would only really be useful to human players in multiplayer maps for obvious reasons-since this is REALLY off topic, I'll leave this to a later post if any interest is shown in the matter.) Anyways, this "buddy refueling pack" would feature a refueling arm which would connect to a sort of "single point refueling port" on a given ship (this should be standardized). Should fuel EVEN be a concern in the final release of the game, the pilot upon requesting refueling will be given a location to the "tanker." (What the tanker's flight path is depends on the FREDer [does it meet me or do I meet it, or both?]) The pilot will see a waypoint-like reticule in the HUD and fly as accurately as possible into the center of the reticule; the tanker will fly at a set speed and vector AS LONG AS it will not crash into anything. Using the "match speed" command, the pilot will fly to a distance within a given tolerance of a given vicinity about the Raptor/other type of refueling ship, as well as within an acceptable orientation. "a" and "z", or whatever the user defines as thrusters for fore and aft orientation can be used to place the ship in the appropriate distance of the tanker after "match speed" is armed. Wait for refueling to be complete, and you're on your way! A refueling limit per tanker is also a good idea...

-Thaeris
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Thaeris on April 14, 2008, 04:56:01 AM
By the way, bucky699, reading through the threads is particularly important, especially this one. You'll have many questions answered and not need to post new questions of a sort which have already been posted. Atmospheric missions are a possiblity and have clearly been in the stages of testing by a few individuals.

-Thaeris
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cl1nt on April 14, 2008, 07:12:57 AM
Quote from: eldain;97210
refulling was done through raptors, as is said in the episode karais shot down and lants on some dessert moon (season 1)
 
eldain


This is untrue.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on April 14, 2008, 09:25:50 AM
Quote from: Cl1nt;97351
This is untrue.


Right.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: TESLA on April 14, 2008, 11:00:52 PM
During one of my random numerous mind wanderings in between giving my next lecture, i got a couple of ideas about missions.

1) since its the Olympic year, how about a mission with some sort of torch attached to your viper and you have to 'run' i.e. fly very fast to a certain point on the map, dodging rolling, avoiding raiders in a certain time spam to win? Like the way the torch is doing all the rounds around cities at the moment getting put out by Tibet protesters, and thugs in blue protecting the flame.

2) Viper Vs Large Asteroid field, similar to before, huge dense field, no way to avoid it, and a set amount of time to reach a certain point.

Just something a lil different to test piloting and manoeuvring skills.

3) Randomly exploding vipers and raiders in front of you, no reason really, just might look cool.

4) The cube strikes back, the original FRED cube makes a return.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Thaeris on April 15, 2008, 03:17:14 AM
Well, my apologies for my ignorance about believing for certain that Raptors were used for refueling. Whether they are or not I cannot say with authority. However, using the Shuttle Mk II as a tanker would be rather novel...

-Thaeris
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Wolfy on April 15, 2008, 07:31:32 AM
Well, we've already seen a tanker, not sure if smaller ships can use it though. Also, Adama has said "We'll send in the fuel bird" in one of the episodes, that to me makes it sound like a specially designed raptor or another specific ship we havent seen yet, but it sounds like somthing thats kept on the Galactica.

however, we cant say anything for sure having not seen how they refuel
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: bucky699 on April 15, 2008, 11:06:35 AM
In the show there is a proper refueling ship for raptors as shown by the ep where adama replaces lee with an inexperienced cag who keeps fraking up the ost basic operation in the book. Why not just find that ep (umm cant remember which, its just before the tomb of Athena) and build one of those into the game, its cannon seeing as there is one in the series and its refuling ships in the series by ships i mean raptors/vipers.

And sorry bout that dumb question but like i said you cant expect me (a noob obviously) to sift through 45 odd pages for one idea spesh when there are posts as long as Thaeris which take up a third of the page, and the search function aint that great. But thank you for answering the question Thaeris thats pretty much the only idea/question i had, keep up the good work guys i would gladly pay money for this game anywhere up to 100 bucks if you could do it without getting in trouble.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cl1nt on April 15, 2008, 11:29:46 AM
^That ship was refueling a cap ship though, not vipers/raptors.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on April 15, 2008, 08:41:17 PM
How fighters get refuelled has not been seen in the show yet. Although it has been mentioned in "You can't go home again". IIRC, Apollo requests for an orbital refuelling as they're *spoooooiler*. That :) .

Tactically, would not be good idea to have an almost cap ship for fighter refuelling operations. Must be something more versatile and maneuverable, IMO.

Hope we see this in some future S04 show though.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on April 15, 2008, 08:52:48 PM
Find the wreckage of a Mk4 Viper except its over two thousand years old :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Wolfy on April 15, 2008, 10:36:18 PM
Quote from: Deckard;97540
How fighters get refuelled has not been seen in the show yet. Although it has been mentioned in "You can't go home again". IIRC, Apollo requests for an orbital refuelling as they're *spoooooiler*. That :) .

Tactically, would not be good idea to have an almost cap ship for fighter refuelling operations. Must be something more versatile and maneuverable, IMO.

Hope we see this in some future S04 show though.


Personally, thats my opinion as well, except you really didnt need to spoiler that, its near the start of season 1! most people coming here have probally already seen it, or at leaast know therl be spoilers around for earlier seasons

Quote from: KewlToyZ;97543
Find the wreckage of a Mk4 Viper except its over two thousand years old :D


Wait, what are we talking about now?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cl1nt on April 16, 2008, 02:58:09 AM
Do we ever know what he's talking about?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on April 16, 2008, 03:24:39 AM
Just an odd twist on the "It has happened before and it will happen again" issue.
I wondered if they would ever find wreckage of the original tribes transports.
A bit far fetched but how long can something last in the vaccuum of space?
They found the beacon and it infected the Cylons.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on April 16, 2008, 06:47:47 AM
And that's a feature request how? :rolleyes:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: P-90_177 on April 16, 2008, 07:02:16 AM
Quote from: Deckard;97540
How fighters get refuelled has not been seen in the show yet. Although it has been mentioned in "You can't go home again". IIRC, Apollo requests for an orbital refuelling as they're *spoooooiler*. That :) .

Tactically, would not be good idea to have an almost cap ship for fighter refuelling operations. Must be something more versatile and maneuverable, IMO.

Hope we see this in some future S04 show though.


i still think it has to be a modified raptor. we've never see any indication that they have any other type of ships available.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: AJAG on April 16, 2008, 01:25:42 PM
Any reason why refuling cannot be done by doing a combat landing on Galactica and having the team fill you up? Kind of like a pit stop.

Putting a refuling ship into a space fight, and having the refuling ship and the ship being refulled as sitting ducks while hell is broken loose around them sounds not feasible.

I would rather have the ships perform hot landings and refuel them in a safe place.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: SFM Hobbes on April 16, 2008, 02:16:57 PM
I think that the vipers have to land somewhere to refuel (ie land in a colonial ship like Colonial 1).  Those fuel ports are just not designed for inflight refueling.  If they were, we'd probably see a nozzle feed sticking out of the nose like on modern fighter jets that have this capability.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on April 16, 2008, 03:16:14 PM
Quote from: SFM Hobbes;97600
I think that the vipers have to land somewhere to refuel (ie land in a colonial ship like Colonial 1).  Those fuel ports are just not designed for inflight refueling.  If they were, we'd probably see a nozzle feed sticking out of the nose like on modern fighter jets that have this capability.


Remember that Lee requested for an orbital refuelling though
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on April 16, 2008, 04:13:38 PM
I am pretty much more interested in hitting the landing bays than a refueling ship after reading the debates. Would make more sense for the game action and more FRED based than adding more obscure models and action sequences. Also this would be a more logical provision since we are more dependent on re-arm than re-fuel.

I wonder how it would be scripted though? Use the communications menu, select rearm and the docking point inside the hangar bay becomes the target to reach for the action to work? Or setup as a Nav point?

My earlier mind wandering (the 2000 year old Mk4 Viper was just thinking out loud, likely my own 3rd party mission)
Sorry to go off topic Kara :D

Thanks guys.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Wolfy on April 16, 2008, 05:02:25 PM
Umm, KewlToyZ, have u played FS2 or any of the other total conversions for it?

the code for calling in a rearm/refuel ship is already in the engine, all you have to do is open comms and press the rearm/refuel ship key, at which point a ship jumps in and procedes on a course towards u to dock with you, or if it already busy with another ship, adds you to the list of ships it needs to go to, in FRED this is easiest, seeming you dont need to do anything.

Infact, its harder your way seeming youd need to define which ship is the resupply ship and put the correct scripts in. Oh, and youd also need to select the Resupply Ship Turned Off box i think it is.

My personal preference is to use a raptor or somthing, seeming weve seen no canon way of refueling in the show, its best to just do it how the other freespace mods do it, even if it doesnt make sence on how it works.

The only other decent way to do it would be to have both, so depending on the situation, you may be closer to the Resupply ship than a battlestar, or its more dangerous to approach a battlestar, in which case use a resupply ship, or if its more suitable to use the battlesatar, use that instead, all about being tactial. ut renember, youl need to avoid if you want to land on a battlestar during a fight. I notice in the show, when they recall vipers, theres never any flak.

However, final decision lies with Omni, Kara and the other devs, and il respect there dicision either way, or any other way they see fit to do it
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on April 16, 2008, 05:34:10 PM
I haven't played FS2 standalone since its FS1 debut. My bad, have to load it up when I get home. Thanks for the heads up Wolfy :D

Since I found BtRL and was pretty much happy just playing with it.
Actually I am curious to know what the entire FS2 game is like anyway.
Just need to make the time available to play it.
I've been going through all of my BSG DVD's watching the episodes and cut scenes since season 4 started for my evening entertainment.

If it is so easily scripted into the FS2 engine already, I see no reason to add extra work in order to reach the same goal. Likely this is more than sufficient.

As far as the Flak, we have seen plenty of issues in the series where the Vipers simply avoid the firing solution for the Battlestar. Landing bay entrances seem seldom in the main battery firing solutions. The Battlestars always seem to go head on or flanking to the battle.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: paxpei on April 16, 2008, 06:26:12 PM
I don´t know anything about coding (I can imagine it will be take a lot of time+work to add that feature), but maybe it´s possible or maybe even already planned to add a visible cockpit?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on April 16, 2008, 06:40:43 PM
Already in work with the Freespace Engine.
If you check out the videos you will see they (BtRL) have a padlock version and a TrackIR version in work.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: badin on April 17, 2008, 03:14:21 AM
this is a simple one put the respawn button and quit button
in  multiplayer on opposite sides of the screen so there
wont be any more accidental punch outs.:nod:
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on April 17, 2008, 06:46:09 AM
Launcher->Features->Multi->Disable Flight Deck Option.

That should turn it off for you.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: badin on April 17, 2008, 07:01:34 PM
Quote from: karajorma;97709
Launcher->Features->Multi->Disable Flight Deck Option.

That should turn it off for you.


thank you:)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: eldain on April 23, 2008, 08:41:46 PM
I was just wonderin wether the misiles could be slown down, after watching the eary capship-test

http://www.moddb.com/games/6596/bsg-beyond-the-red-line/videos/79536/viper-mk2-cockpit#imagebox

i thouhgt they were flying viper-scale, as shooting speed(the speed with wich the bullets actually fly)was redicoulous, in the movie the bs galactica is about half a mile long compare that to misiles doin twice that distance in less than a second its just unrealistic cause theyd be flyin faster than the bullets of the vipers and i wouldn like bein shot to hell when it is 100 rounds per sec. in a ship that is 1:1000 to gallactica

last i was just wonderin if in game the bullets from the small weapons of the gallactica(not talkin about the main guns but mostly about the port side surpresion guns) will be flyin all directions to fighters or actually be shot in salvo's like in the miniseries at teh basestars

anyway just thanx
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Thaeris on April 27, 2008, 04:55:59 AM
It appears the most, or one of the most, threads on the forum is running a little low on steam...

My proposition? Release a new patch! It is in a sense a feature request...

-Thaeris
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: karajorma on April 27, 2008, 06:59:40 AM
Get us some new coders to fix 3.6.10 and then you'll get your patch. :p
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Wolfy on April 27, 2008, 11:43:14 AM
Also Thaeris, what would you like in your patch?

A patch with nothing would be so useless
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Crixx on April 27, 2008, 01:40:53 PM
Quote from: karajorma;98765
Get us some new coders to fix 3.6.10 and then you'll get your patch. :p


If Thai internet brides = coders, i'll send you 20.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Barid Bel Medar on April 27, 2008, 07:02:08 PM
I  had a thought that might be workable, but I'm not sure.  use footage of one of the Galactica Launch bays with little flashlike animations.  You know, like the Bastion, Galatea, Aquitane etc from from regular freespace.  one for pegasus and one for galactica.  I suspect theres enough stock footage and people with the requisite skill in video edit to do those.  plus I thnk it would add a really decent flavor.

Dunno if its workable, but I thought I'd through that up.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Jangiri on April 28, 2008, 12:13:03 AM
one feature that im not sure is possible but could they have a multiplayer mode were about half the team is actually controlling the turrets and shooting stuff
maybe even someone controlling a battlestar
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Barid Bel Medar on April 28, 2008, 05:42:10 AM
ok, lemme see if I can list the wants:
Raptors
Raptors w/ Missiles
Heavy Raiders
Porta-Nukes
"Columbia" Class Battlestar (Galactica lookalikes)

Mercury Class Battlestar

"Valkery" Battlestars

Basestars
Combat Landings (is that even do-able?)
Animated Deck
Cockpit Animations (like wing commander?)
Controlable Battlestar guns
Flyable battlestar
Damage Textures
Fuel (I suspect theres a way to redo FS open by "involntarily) reducing engine power to 0 and rendering a ship unable to move)
Eject Feature
Blacking Out  (I suspect use of existing "looking at sun" code could work)
Dangerous Debris

And  I got sick of reading past posts.

1 Partridge, 1 pair tree?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cl1nt on April 28, 2008, 07:29:15 AM
Quote from: Jangiri;98897
one feature that im not sure is possible but could they have a multiplayer mode were about half the team is actually controlling the turrets and shooting stuff
maybe even someone controlling a battlestar


We discussed this a while ago, and came to the conclusion it would be boring as fuck, and wouldn't work.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Barid Bel Medar on April 28, 2008, 05:38:10 PM
hem, I just had a thought, will the Cap Ships have the launch tubes.  I still think that was a great scene on the algae planet, with the Galactica opening her nuke tubes.  I think it would be a great animation for the cap ships to have functional anims for tubes.  mechanically I suspect it would be akin to the sexp in FS2 that allowed beams to fire.  SEXP 1 opens the tubes (anim is movement of lid), with SEXP 2 being a launch of missiles.  Using the same feature in FRED that allows damage to carry over, I suspect it would be possible to animate the finite quality of said missiles.  to translate just as turrets can be destroyed, "missile launch" destroys itself, I.E. the missile fires and an empty space is left, the hatch is just an active animation, just like a moving turret, only with fixed axis.  Activation of all said object can be utilized in SEXP formats.

Just my thoughts from having played FS2.  I'm no coder, but it seems like code already exists to do most of that suggestion.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Felix 039 on April 29, 2008, 06:56:47 AM
I would LOVE to play a 10v10 capship battle with tonnes of vipers mk7 and raiders flying around...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Wolfy on April 29, 2008, 08:12:26 AM
hope your computers better than mine :p
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Felix 039 on May 03, 2008, 08:05:20 AM
Sure Is :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: colecampbell666 on May 04, 2008, 12:41:24 AM
I just read the first page, but for the swarm missiles, have a cluster bomb that explodes as soon as fired, no explosion .ANI, no damage, and releases missiles to the front of the ship.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on May 04, 2008, 01:13:08 AM
Have you seen how thin are those damage trails in S0405 (or as many states as S0407)?

Just my 2 cents on this
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: The Legacy on May 05, 2008, 06:46:13 PM
This is a HUUUUUUUUGE thread, so I'm going to jump straight to the ideas:

- Make all of the explosions, engine sounds, and all sounds that is not directly local to the ship, dampened as if you were underwater (or something similar), to give the effect that space does NOT carry sound waves (except let's say a ship releases a ton of oxygen and stuff, giving a temporary sound wave). But of course the game would be no fun without any sound, hense the former idea of dampened sounds. But of course, firing your KEW rounds inside of your ship would sound normal, as it's reverberating inside.

- Although this is more specific for FS2, add a SEXP which basically creates a rotation on an axis. Although we have set-object-speed-x, set-object-speed-y, set-object-speed-z, set-object-facing, set-object-facing-object, and set-object-position, we do NOT have 'set-object-rotation-x', 'set-object-rotation-y', and 'set-object-rotation-z'. It would be great if this option was made available to us, not to mention a way to tell a ship to be adrift in the first place.

- More alternative skins for each ship. For example, damage textures.

- A high-poly, and a low-poly version of each type of ship, to allow people to FRED more larger battles. Specifically, ones like the Battle of New Caprica, or even flying next to the fleet, especially if during a battle. NOT Battle of Endor BTRL of course! Do this unless of course Battle of New Caprica or a full fleet is doable with the current high-poly models.

That is all. :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Bellerophon Actual on May 05, 2008, 07:14:16 PM
Make it so when you fly into the docking bay of a ship (like Galactica or Pegasus) your ammo is reloaded. (or you have to stay for a few seconds) It is hard conserving ammo on longer missions.

Add a blue tint to the cockpit

PRogram the AI to make it more likely they'll lead you into an asteroid. I AM DYING to have a dogfight in there :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: TESLA on May 06, 2008, 12:52:34 AM
also while your at it, put moving viechles into the Pods,
also have people walking around making repairs doing random stuff,
Then add the ability to walk around, leave your viper, enter galactica and take a drink in the bar, visit Baltars prayer group, flirt with No.6 in the lock-up, Control the CIC, Launch nukes at the fleet,
should be simple to do, you have nothing better to be doing, right???? ;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: CooperHawkes on May 06, 2008, 02:39:49 AM
Quote from: The Legacy;99616

- Although this is more specific for FS2, add a SEXP which basically creates a rotation on an axis. Although we have set-object-speed-x, set-object-speed-y, set-object-speed-z, set-object-facing, set-object-facing-object, and set-object-position, we do NOT have 'set-object-rotation-x', 'set-object-rotation-y', and 'set-object-rotation-z'. It would be great if this option was made available to us, not to mention a way to tell a ship to be adrift in the first place.


i second that.

Quote from: TESLA;99644
also while your at it, put moving viechles into the Pods,
also have people walking around making repairs doing random stuff,
Then add the ability to walk around, leave your viper, enter galactica and take a drink in the bar, visit Baltars prayer group, flirt with No.6 in the lock-up, Control the CIC, Launch nukes at the fleet,
should be simple to do, you have nothing better to be doing, right???? ;)


way to much irony and justified by what in the last few posts?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Wolfy on May 06, 2008, 09:00:58 AM
Quote from: The Legacy;99616
- A high-poly, and a low-poly version of each type of ship, to allow people to FRED more larger battles. Specifically, ones like the Battle of New Caprica, or even flying next to the fleet, especially if during a battle. NOT Battle of Endor BTRL of course! Do this unless of course Battle of New Caprica or a full fleet is doable with the current high-poly models.


Go to Options > Graphics i think it is, there you can turn down the detail/other stuff. All ships have LODS which is essentially a lower poly model. the closer u get, the higher the models detail is, and when u turn down the the graphic settings it will lower which model u see.

The best example of a LOD is in the Colonial Mover thread, you can really see how they get rid of detail
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Echilles on May 06, 2008, 02:26:15 PM
Quote from: The Legacy;99616

- More alternative skins for each ship. For example, damage textures.

I'm not sure you meant this with skins... But if you want more skins maybe you could try this (http://www.game-warden.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5166&highlight=skins)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: The Legacy on May 06, 2008, 05:51:52 PM
...Interesting. I may have to play with that. :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on May 06, 2008, 06:14:34 PM
Quote from: The Legacy;99616
... - Although this is more specific for FS2, add a SEXP which basically creates a rotation on an axis. Although we have set-object-speed-x, set-object-speed-y, set-object-speed-z, set-object-facing, set-object-facing-object, and set-object-position, we do NOT have 'set-object-rotation-x', 'set-object-rotation-y', and 'set-object-rotation-z'. It would be great if this option was made available to us, not to mention a way to tell a ship to be adrift in the first place...


Agreed, although you should have posted that on the HLP forum.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Fish on May 07, 2008, 12:34:08 PM
Is widescreen view done as VERT- or HORIZ+?

Widescreen should add 'extra' field of view to the sides of standard resolution, not make it appear as through you are peering out of a letterbox, with the top and bottom obscured...

What is currently the case? If not the latter, could it be? :D
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: The Legacy on May 08, 2008, 03:44:17 PM
Quote from: Fish;99793
Is widescreen view done as VERT- or HORIZ+?

Widescreen should add 'extra' field of view to the sides of standard resolution, not make it appear as through you are peering out of a letterbox, with the top and bottom obscured...

What is currently the case? If not the latter, could it be? :D


As far as I know, there is no widescreen mode programmed into the FS2 engine yet. Right now, it's a stretched regular resolution on a widescreen monitor (which is why round objects in the game look oval)

It's a planned feature though, and not just for BTRL but all of the FS2 Open project.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on May 08, 2008, 05:26:49 PM
I would be interested in an FOV (Field of view) angle adjustment setting.
Perhaps better suited for the main FS forum to request???
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on May 08, 2008, 08:26:46 PM
There's a FRED2 SEXp for that.. although I've not played with it yet. Hope karajorma can enlight you better than me on this topic
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Fish on May 08, 2008, 11:04:10 PM
Ah, dang. Was hoping that wasn't the case currently. What do other people play with? I thought widescreen was standard these days, so I doubt most of you are getting around the problem by using old monitors...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on May 08, 2008, 11:17:42 PM
1680x1050 32 bit color 60 Hz
Runs great for me:
GF 8800 GT 512 MB
HP w2207 LCD
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Fish on May 09, 2008, 12:25:51 AM
So that's the resolution you run the game at, yeah? Is it distorted as mentioned above by Legacy? Do you find it to be a problem? Have you tried any workarounds?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: The Legacy on May 09, 2008, 12:34:56 AM
Quote from: Fish;99866
Ah, dang. Was hoping that wasn't the case currently. What do other people play with? I thought widescreen was standard these days, so I doubt most of you are getting around the problem by using old monitors...


Widescreen IS standard these days. But the game engine was made over half a decade ago, so it wasn't around when these widescreen options became available.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on May 09, 2008, 01:01:23 AM
Quote from: Fish;99876
So that's the resolution you run the game at, yeah? Is it distorted as mentioned above by Legacy? Do you find it to be a problem? Have you tried any workarounds?


I sense no distortions whatsoever?
I am running it on Vista Ultimate 32 bit with dream scenes also.
And I am only running 2 gigs of ram.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: blowfish on May 09, 2008, 01:06:18 AM
The Lead indicator is misaligned with the ship it is tracking.  This has been a known issue for a while.  It has been fixed recently, but no BtRL builds have been released since then.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Fish on May 09, 2008, 03:42:26 AM
Yeah, that's what I was referring to - the lead indicator, etc. I know the engine is old (I played FS1 and 2 when they were released, on 13 & 15" CRTs), but given that approximately everyone has widescreen these days, I am surprised there aren't more people complaining about having a stretched picture. Thus, I thought there might be a solution I hadn't heard of...

But as KewlToyz is apparently oblivious (and giving out oddly irrelevant computer specs), I'm guessing others are too.

Does anyone force resolution into 4:3 and live with black bars on the side to play without distortion?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on May 09, 2008, 04:12:10 AM
Quote from: Fish;99881
Yeah, that's what I was referring to - the lead indicator, etc. I know the engine is old (I played FS1 and 2 when they were released, on 13 & 15" CRTs), but given that approximately everyone has widescreen these days, I am surprised there aren't more people complaining about having a stretched picture. Thus, I thought there might be a solution I hadn't heard of...

But as KewlToyz is apparently oblivious (and giving out oddly irrelevant computer specs), I'm guessing others are too.

Does anyone force resolution into 4:3 and live with black bars on the side to play without distortion?


I am not aware of anything wrong with what I see in the game.
As far as the specs, their 100% accurate I have been building systems for over 10 years.
No black bars, no distortion and thats the proper resolution I play at?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Crixx on May 09, 2008, 12:46:21 PM
Heh, and all this time i've just adapted to having broken lead indicators :x
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: newman on May 09, 2008, 01:56:24 PM
If the game only supports 4:3 resolutions, and your monitor is 16:9 (widescreen), then you'll definitely see distorted picture or black side bars. No other computer spec is relevant for this - it all comes down to your screen's native aspect ratio and what the game supports.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on May 09, 2008, 07:19:20 PM
Quote from: newman;99908
If the game only supports 4:3 resolutions, and your monitor is 16:9 (widescreen), then you'll definitely see distorted picture or black side bars. No other computer spec is relevant for this - it all comes down to your screen's native aspect ratio and what the game supports.


I'm just distorted and don't notice it I guess.
Of course I could just have the sense that my FOV is wider because everything looks fine when it is in my sights. 1680x1050 is what I set my desktop and the game to. It's the native res of my LCD.

If a game has an FOV I always mod it to between 120-180 on average as a preference for immersion.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Arsenal on May 14, 2008, 06:55:42 PM
My throttle has an afterburner feature built into it - but it doesn't seem compatible with the BtRL controls.

It would be nice, although an un-neccessary feature, if I could use my throttle to the fullest.  It is a TopGun AfterburnerII.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: MadMan on July 12, 2008, 02:57:30 PM
Hi, I'm new to this forum. I have a few ideas for this great mod. I'm not sure if someone else mentioned this before but here it is:

1. make DRADIS lose the target if it hides behind an asteroid depending on size and time (a quick fly-by should have almost no effect)

2. a HUD indicator showing the vector for the best intercept course
The lead indicator could maybe change its size, shape or color as long as you are not in weapon range showing you the best intercept course)

3. a HUD indicator showing a vector which is orthogonal to the flight vector of incoming missiles
The indicator could pop up along with the missile warning. That would be very helpful for evading missiles only with afterburner.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on July 12, 2008, 05:18:41 PM
I am finally noticing the lead indicator is off a quite a bit with widescreen.
The sweet spot seems to be halway between the indicator and the target.
Other than that, is there an FOV adjustment in the game engine?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: YIIMM on July 12, 2008, 10:27:28 PM
One thought I've had came to me when I was watching the miniseries again. What if there could be an on-the-rails level, almost like in Call of Duty, where you have the viewpoint of one of the civvies, for the Battle of Ragnar.

I just quite like the idea of seeing Galactica (and half the fleet) far ahead of you, and then seeing it manoeuver to fight at enemies you can't see yet, and all the while you have the sense that your survival is out of your hands.

Just a thought.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Josh_88 on July 13, 2008, 01:51:22 PM
would make a nice cutscene or something like that, but if im looking at Galactica moving to attack an enemy id rather be there doing the attacking not looking out a window as it happens. lol
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Echilles on July 13, 2008, 05:57:18 PM
I don't mean to be rude or hasty considering the game progress, but speaking about cutscenes... Is there any new word about this kind of stuff (http://www.game-warden.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4170) ?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Roman on July 15, 2008, 02:24:32 AM
You guys have played Ace Combat before correct? One of the nifty little features in the game is the option to fly around without fighting

It would be nice if you could fly around the fleet without worrying about a mission (just a relaxing cruise or Air Cap) could give you the chance to test out the graphic settings and get familiarized with the flight controls.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Sidestep on July 29, 2008, 12:01:09 PM
I haven't played FS2 so I don't know if this is already a feature in there, (or if someone has mentioned it before), but will you be promoted in rank as you progress through the game, i.e. start as a Noob and end up as CAG depending on how well you do in the missions?

And maybe a Top Gun prize for a certain amount of kills etc.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Wolfy on July 29, 2008, 02:39:06 PM
the original freespace 2 has a medal and a rank system. so for doing a certain mission youd get a medal, i think you needed to do really well in said mission though. and i think once you got a certain amount of kills youd gain in rank
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on July 30, 2008, 07:32:30 PM
Would be possible to have for the Raptor a co-pilot with an smiling Boomer's face?. That would be much appreciated here, indeed =)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Ace on July 30, 2008, 10:56:26 PM
Quote from: Deckard;105304
Would be possible to have for the Raptor a co-pilot with an smiling Boomer's face?. That would be much appreciated here, indeed =)

I'm sure that a lot of players would prefer a non-ticking timebomb co-pilot. ;)

Personally, Baltar is my co-pilot.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: spade on July 30, 2008, 11:57:20 PM
can we have a raptor mission for the co-op mode?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: hightailer on August 05, 2008, 12:07:24 AM
dont know if anyones metioned this yet but, what about an apperance by the Olympic Carrier? have it jump in at the end of a mission and have the player make a choice. yes it would probably only work once, but maybe you could put in 2 ships, one a hoax, and one with an actual threat and make the player figure it out. oh and combat landings. cool if possible. oh and almost forgot. if it is possibe, and this will probably be a MASSIVE stretch, but, the exodus from new caprica would be another amazing mission.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Cl1nt on August 05, 2008, 04:01:24 AM
You rang? (http://www.moddb.com/games/bsg-beyond-the-red-line/images/olympic-carrier)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: hightailer on August 07, 2008, 03:42:41 PM
heh heh, whoops, well, cross that off the list, but dosent the olympic carrier have a blue trim?
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Enki on August 07, 2008, 04:34:14 PM
I think there are three of the same liner in the RTF, each with it's own livery.  That's just texturing.  While not trivial, having the model work means it is profitable time-wise to create the other texture maps.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: On_Your_Six on August 07, 2008, 07:58:21 PM
I'm hoping that this one hasn't been mentioned yet (I went through as many pages of this thread as I could and did a search on the forums in general) but I think a killer addition (strictly to the multiplayer game modes unless the Dev's decide otherwise) would be nuclear proximity mines, nothing huge, just a blast radius of about 500 meters to give the player a chance to escape it...  I think it would be an awesome way to end the good 'ol circle fights and would really add some extra eye candy for multiplayer battles.

Possibly maybe even add a remote variant to mix it up a bit.

Limit them to three (although I think two might be ideal) per player (perhaps in the stead of a countermeasure?) so it becomes a strategic implementation.  Just a thought, in case no one has thought of it before.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Josh_88 on August 07, 2008, 10:00:31 PM
as far as the olympic carrier goes, if you read the comments Scotchy says thats just the first one he did and plans on doing others under different colors

"Scotchy Feb 6 2008, 9:18pm says:

Three or 4 versions of the fish ship. I made the first variation in red"
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: _VARGR_ on August 29, 2008, 11:35:21 AM
How about adding the so called Advanced raider seen sence razor and season 4Its basicly the same as the normal raider except the head is completely different and looks more like a centurian.
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh49/_VARGR_/Raider_retcon.jpg)

Why not add the maelstorm viper also. It has been seen onscreen twice next to the viper seven in razor and the 1st ep of season 4. In my fanon its the viper 6 as pegasus has at least two squadrons of them in razor when attacking the comms relay, and it looks older and less advanced than the viper 7.
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh49/_VARGR_/Viper_Mk_VII_Maelstrom.jpg)

Onscreen with a viper 7

(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh49/_VARGR_/640px-Retconned_Viper_Mk_VII_and_or.jpg)

Just some ideas. If you already had them sorry. Good luck with the mod.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on August 29, 2008, 01:03:08 PM
Seems to be that you've not visited this page (http://www.moddb.com/games/bsg-beyond-the-red-line/news) yet
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: _VARGR_ on August 30, 2008, 12:04:41 AM
Why? Are they the in the mod? I didn't see any evidence of them in the link.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on August 30, 2008, 01:44:25 AM
They will be in the full release from what I gathered...
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: vonmon on August 30, 2008, 07:21:37 AM
Quote from: Unknown Target;56802


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/UnknownTarget/screen0115.jpg)



Mine? Can I haz??

Sorry, just couldn't help it. No I'm not young enough to normally talk like that :P
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Williamson on September 20, 2008, 07:56:23 PM
Hi
I just gotta ask: is the battlestar and basestar in the demo? Or are they gonna be in the next release? Any idea when that will be?
Thanks!
Williamson
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on September 20, 2008, 10:02:01 PM
Those will be in the finalized releases m8.
The FreeSpace Open engine needs finalized for version 10 to add the necessary content for the missions sarrounding the cap ships. The final release isn't planned much more than after the last episode of BSG airs from what the Dev team has already posted.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: cookie007 on September 21, 2008, 04:20:13 PM
Hi there :)

I would love to have some nukes for the cylon raiders like seen in the mini series - not those little rockets in the demo... they are so ridiculous - I guess it would be a nice thing for the main release cause then those raiders would be very dangerous and a great threat for the entire fleet :yes:

is there any chance we see them in the game ???

Thanks ;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Rainman on September 21, 2008, 06:27:28 PM
Quote from: cookie007;106704
Hi there :)

I would love to have some nukes for the cylon raiders like seen in the mini series - not those little rockets in the demo... they are so ridiculous - I guess it would be a nice thing for the main release cause then those raiders would be very dangerous and a great threat for the entire fleet :yes:

is there any chance we see them in the game ???

Thanks ;)


Hey man there is already a mission out there where a wing of AI controlled raiders are armed with nukes and head towards the miner you are protecting. It is a very well made mission and supports multiplayer as well, is also one of my favorites. But since I haven't played in so long I can't remember the name.

It starts off with a squadron of vipers launch from Galactica (Ofcoarse not visible) and they head full speed towards a couple of minersahead which are being ravaged by a raider wing. The miners have lost FTL, and are trying to repair it but the Raiders are causing them trouble. Anyways during the immense fighting on the massive map (really makes you feel like you are fighting in an actual war) a wing of raiders jump in, and the squadron leader says that they have nukes and must be intercepted. Now the one time they got past me and fired nukes there was a tremendous explosion with a shockwave and all, and it really was more fun than if i had intercepted them:D.



-And the idea about the nuclear mines... well we might as well add nuclear bullets and tractor beams to end the circle fights ;). Lets think real solutions.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Ace on September 21, 2008, 07:52:12 PM
Well, with not a whole lot of table editing and FRED you can make that mission now :)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: KewlToyZ on September 22, 2008, 11:49:01 PM
How do I get new ship pof's into FRED?
It kept crashing when I tried import....
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on October 03, 2008, 02:29:00 PM
Quote from: KewlToyZ;106731
How do I get new ship pof's into FRED?
It kept crashing when I tried import....


PM me, i had the same probs a while back, maybe my solution works for ya.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: TESLA on October 03, 2008, 03:17:00 PM
Cursing at the computer will not help now ;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: a50callovenote on October 04, 2008, 02:24:32 AM
I was looking at the starfox mod and it seems that it would be very possible to do the assault on new caprica mission... yea the one where the galactica jumps in atmosphere. the starfox crew were even able to put a city in! wow this project as evolved far past my imagination for freespace... you could also make a mission where you are defending caprica city! anyhow, just a thought
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Angelus on October 04, 2008, 11:19:24 AM
Quote from: TESLA;107183
Cursing at the computer will not help now ;)



And what about bashing the Computer with a sledge hammer? ;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Deckard on October 04, 2008, 07:55:16 PM
... in case someone feels tempted on what Angelus suggests.. then, please, record it and upload an slow motion of it to YouTube ;)
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Thaeris on October 26, 2008, 12:58:32 AM
I know there were other threads for this, but seeing as this the primary thread for making suggestions, I thought I would post here:

Is there any chance of seeing this bird?

[ATTACH]4476[/ATTACH]

This is a Scorpion fighter from the original series, and was seen in that show as well. Just an idea...

-Thaeris
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: M-562 on October 26, 2008, 09:47:02 AM
Judging by the wingspan I think that thing would have a hard time fitting in the launch tube lol
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: Snagger on October 28, 2008, 03:26:56 PM
It was a predecessor to the Viper, and given the TOS "500-yahren" age of the battlestars, should have been compatible from a canon view point, if not an effects one.  I can't remember whether it was used in the episode where Starbuck flies a recon mission in an unarmed but automated Viper or the one where Apollo was stuck on a backwards planet (wild west style) where a local bad "Boss" and his sheriff had reprogrammed a damaged Centurion.
Title: Beyond the Red Line feature requests
Post by: David cgc on October 28, 2008, 09:52:46 PM
It was the one with the recon Viper. It was from a long-abandoned Colonial prison colony, hence the outdated equipment. I suppose it could fit in the new series as a pre-war precursor to the Viper Mark I. It seems pretty clear that the Viper series was designed for compatibility with Colonial launch tubes, so this could be the last of their pre-battlestar fighters.