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Freespace => Freespace 2 MODing => Topic started by: takashi on January 06, 2007, 07:18:37 PM

Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: takashi on January 06, 2007, 07:18:37 PM
i recently finished a moddel...and when i went to convert it it to POF in pof constructor suite... it said: "FATAL ERROR: you frogot to group these objects"

i dont see the problem...it was made in blender, as 5 objects, then exported to truespace, where i grouped them, then i went to convert it and texture it. then that message came up.
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: karajorma on January 06, 2007, 08:07:38 PM
Glue a light to it in Truespace.

Check the turretting tutorial in my FAQ if you don't know how.
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: takashi on January 06, 2007, 11:48:14 PM
it doesent have any turrets...just regular guns.
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: Taristin on January 07, 2007, 12:11:08 AM
The point of the tutorial is to familiarize you with TS hierarchy, not necessarily only turrets.
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: Star Dragon on January 07, 2007, 07:12:40 AM
Just occurred to me. In instances where models crash upon destruction would gluing a light help? I have plenty of pofs (fighters/bombers) made without lights. Created by modelview.
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: Taristin on January 07, 2007, 06:27:33 PM
Creating the model with modelview could very well cause that crash, as well. Modelview doesn't produce the most stable meshes.
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: takashi on January 07, 2007, 07:38:29 PM
well, i created it on blender so that means no hiearchy... it wont split into a hiearchy... it wont accept the two guins as objects. not even that FAQ helped (except with winning on freespace multplayer with the great big cube)

if you can see anything wrong, then i respect you:

(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6347/thewontloadshipkt8.png)
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: Star Dragon on January 07, 2007, 10:54:33 PM
Texture it and then upload it. IF you don't want to be elaborate that's fine, it will need a temp cover at the very least to be visible in FS2.

Then when I get a hold of it I can give it a try.

---------------

I seriously think something is wrong with PCS on my computer, even after my third reinstall it hangs/or has problems with models that MV spits out like nothing.

Development is suffering because I lack a true modeler who has any time for the projects I am involved with. (everyone is busy so I have to make do with what I can beg/borrow until that day).

Also it seems I am the only one who mods 3.6 while the rest of the world is on 3.6.9 , I tried earlier to mod 3.6.7 with disastrous results and find it quicker and easier to make a conversion in 20 minutes and in 5 minutes of set up I am up and running with no problems versus the hundreds of errors 3.6.7 complains about and then crashes.

So in the end even if these projects DO get finished someone who knows what they are doing will have to go through them and translate them to the newest open format.

It's either that or someone will have to take over these projects from scratch far into the future...

I'm not stopping, just stating how things are...
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: takashi on January 08, 2007, 07:03:59 PM
since it was mad ein blender, the hiearchy says no more than "CIRCLE1". even worse, one wing was mirrored on an axis and wont show in the UV map. im starting to thing this moddel may be a problem...or i should stop using blender.
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: TheFili on January 08, 2007, 07:19:38 PM
Yoohoo, another Blender user ;)

Sorry if you already did takashi, but did you join all the meshes in object mode?

My first model ported to FS looked like it was taken apart by a careless tornado, but after I joined, it was fine.
Got into UVs only yesterday, so no idea whether I can help there, but what method do you use for your UV map? U-Key, "Unwrap"?
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: takashi on January 08, 2007, 09:01:02 PM
i use a totaly different program called "lithunrap"

and yes, the meshes have been joined, but the UV map looks like a spider web! that, and truespace wont accept the guns as objects for some reason...
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: TheFili on January 08, 2007, 09:35:17 PM
OK, then I'm out of my depth ;)
I took the hard route yesterday and gave each "subpart" of the model some seams so they could unwrap with Blender and it worked fine. Maybe you could try that if nothing else helps.
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: takashi on January 09, 2007, 01:15:42 AM
sub...part?
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: VA [TI] on January 09, 2007, 02:19:49 AM
Quote from: Star Dragon;53202
I seriously think something is wrong with PCS on my computer, even after my third reinstall it hangs/or has problems with models that MV spits out like nothing

I'm certain I've told you this before, but you should avoid modelview conversions like the plague. :p
All my experiments into it resulted in ugly problems in one area or another. Most notably was a seriously faulty collision mesh.

You should basically convert using PCS, the POF Exporter for Max or nothing. If you're getting errors in PCS it really honestly is because something is wrong with your model. Just because modelview won't complain about the problem doesn't mean that it's not there.

=========

takashi: Definitely don't stop using blender! Once you grow more comfortable with it you'll be amazed what you can do with it. :)
Brief motivational speech aside, the "You forgot to group those objects" error:

Quote from: HLP Wiki entry on PCS
If PCS gives a "You forgot to group those objects!" error message during COB > POF conversions, it just means that you need to glue a local light to the main hull object in Truespace. (This usually only occurs when PCS encounters a piece of geometry not glued to anything, such as a test hull for conversion or a forgotten bit just lying about your workspace)


This is the same kind of thing you do to set up turrets, which is why Karajorma pointed you towards his tutorial.

The UV error sounds strange - at what point did you UV map it? Ideally, you would UV map it in lith while it's split in half, and then once the UV map is done you export a texture map and get it back into TS. (the texture map doesn't yet have to be complete obviously)

Now you mirror the thing in TS, (assuming the version you're using has a mirror modeler tool? If you have to duplicate the ship and mirror the duplicate say so, because that will make it trickkier), glue a local light to the main hull object, save as a .scn or .cob, and convert it using TS.

More PCS info is here if you need it: http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/POF_Constructor_Suite

Did any of that help?
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: takashi on January 09, 2007, 03:14:37 AM
beta.zip - 0.05MB (http://www.zshare.net/download/beta-zip.html)

by the looks of that map, and the ship, im ready to throw the computer out the window.
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: VA [TI] on January 09, 2007, 04:37:27 AM
Not bad for a first try at all. :)

Ah - I see your problem. It's the wings mainly.

What's wrong here is that your left wing is just a group of one sided polygons - not a closed mesh, and as such it'd only be visible from above even if it did export correctly.

Your right wing is fine though, so you can duplicate that. Select a single vert on the broken left wing, then press ctrl+L to select the whole wing (it will select all verts linked to whatever you have selected), and press X or Delete and delete the selected verticies.

Repeat the same selection proceedure with the right wing, and then go to top view (numpad 7) and press shift+D to duplicate the selection. While you're moving the duplicate around, tap X to constrain its movement to the X axis. This will prevent it from going out of alignment with the other wing.

Drag it across to approximately where the left wing was and left click to set. Now press M and mirror it by global axis. Press G to grab it again, and X to constrain it once more, and move it so it touches the hull and looks nicely symmetrical.

Normally with symmetrical ships you should only build and texture one side while mirroring it - but you've built this one on both sides. You can still cut it in half if you want to, but with this being a first model and all, I'd say just go for a simplistic UV job of the whole thing and not worry about mirroring at all. :)

Have you done any UVing in Blender before? If not, there's a good little tutorial here: http://biorust.com/index.php?page=tutorial_detail&tutid=85
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: TheFili on January 10, 2007, 12:58:44 PM
Just took a look at your model and tried some "Mark seam" commands on it. It all worked, except the right wing. (Btw: By subparts I mean guns, wings etc.)

The tutorial VA[TI] posted for you is definitely something you should look at. That's the one I also used for getting the hang of this.
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: takashi on January 10, 2007, 11:27:36 PM
i tried the tutorial...mergeing the meshes...ect.

everything but starting over and it now gives me a "cannot determine file type" message after converting it to .COB
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: VA [TI] on January 11, 2007, 12:43:09 AM
Here, have a look at the attachment model. Basically what I've done is split it in half (deleting the left hand side), apply a mirror model modifier (highlighted in the below image), triangulated it and given it a very quick and simple UV map.

If you want to export it, remember to apply the mirror modifier first, and have the object selected when you go to export. Export it as a Direct X file (.x) and open it first in 3d Exploration. (if you've not got it, get it here: http://sectorfiles.net/ti-file-dump/VasudanAdmiral/3dexplor.exe)
Then from there save it as a TS cob file and open it up in TS.

Keep in mind that because this is a single object - no turrets or lods or anything, you can open it straight up in TS once you've saved it as a .X file, but all your face normals will be flipped, and when I looked at it it seemed a bit unstable. Going through 3d Exploration seemed to fix both problems as always. :)
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: takashi on January 11, 2007, 02:56:46 AM
3d exploration download link= lithunwrap?

anyway, i never new i would need to dust off (update) direct X to fix the problem... thanks! now i can shoot peoples down in freespace again!
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: VA [TI] on January 11, 2007, 02:58:16 AM
Quote from: takashi;53437
3d exploration download link= lithunwrap?

....crap. Sorry. :\

Link fixed
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: Star Dragon on January 11, 2007, 01:53:03 PM
No offense, but if it wasn't for modelview the VF-super I just posted recently (and works perfectly, no crashes or known issues) wouldn't be in game.

Last time I tried to use PCS to convert it I went away for 15 mins and it was still hung up, MV did it in 5 seconds...

Maybe I just get lucky a lot :D but until PCS2 comes out I swear by MV (for now)... Plus I'm using the Darkhill version (should I go back to older htl-build?).
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: VA [TI] on January 12, 2007, 01:08:07 AM
Open the model up in PCS, leaving the render window open. Go to the SubObjects tab and hit the "SortNorm Bounding Debug" button. Now look in the render window at the result.

If the mesh is solid and stable, it should appear like the Aeolus in the second pic. If not, it might appear as the ship in the first pic or worse.

Keep in mind that this is not a perfect indicator - it's just one of the easiest to test.
Another thing to look for is any error messages that pop up when loading it up in a debug build of Fred. The final test is to carefully observe it in-game. Shoot and ram it all over - looking for parts with no clipping where you or your shots go straight through it.
Also maneuver it to eclipse the sun with various parts of itself. If you're able to see the sun glare or anything through the ship you have problems.
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: takashi on January 12, 2007, 01:24:28 AM
o i shouldnt fly my work? ok.... the tail is transparent...one of the wings....and those places only show when there is no light. and my lasers go straight through them. maybe blenders mirror does something to wings made of hexagons....
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: VA [TI] on January 12, 2007, 02:12:14 AM
Sorry, I don't understand - you got the version I posted in-game or did you copy what I'd done to get your own version? Also, did you actually create and apply a texture?
Screenies would help. ;)
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: takashi on January 12, 2007, 03:05:41 AM
of the texture? or of the sun problem?
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: VA [TI] on January 12, 2007, 04:12:29 AM
Oh - no, all that about bug-hunting was directed towards Star Dragon. He's saying that Modelview 32 can produce stable POF files, but I'm pretty sure it can't, which is why I'm asking if he can test it using the methods I described there. :)

Anyway, where are you up to with your fighter? Did you copy what I'd done with it yourself or did you just switch over to work on that one instead? If you switched over, your current stage should be somewhere abouts creating a texture?
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: takashi on January 12, 2007, 04:20:06 AM
ah, yes. the  texture...

(http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/2554/texturenu9.png) (http://starfox.com/)
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: Mav on January 23, 2007, 05:06:50 PM
Quote from: Star Dragon;53202
Also it seems I am the only one who mods 3.6 while the rest of the world is on 3.6.9 , I tried earlier to mod 3.6.7 with disastrous results and find it quicker and easier to make a conversion in 20 minutes and in 5 minutes of set up I am up and running with no problems versus the hundreds of errors 3.6.7 complains about and then crashes.


Uh, I just recently found out that somewhere along (might be just at that version) the "$ND" fields in the ships.tbl got invalidated by the SCP team.

Those fields are sort of a retail-glowmap and so aren't needed anymore in FSO, but invalidating them seems a pretty hard decision to me.

Anyway, when I removed these fields from my ships.tbl, both my mods that FSO had complained about like hell since some build after 3.5.5 (threw me off of modding FS for about 1,5 years :( ) , suddendly worked without any error.


The SCP team surely makes a great job :yes: , but they *could* have made a sticky in their forums about this... especially as they always said they didn't want to break backwards compatibility :/ .
And they shouldn't have always insisted on that it HAD to be an error in my tables everytime I asked for help (2 or 3 times I think) ... after all it was more of an error in their code (honestly, couldn't they just have set it to ignore these fields instead of complaining about them as "errors"???) .


Well, anyway - except for this "little glitch", the SCP is a really good project. And I hope this advice helps you solve your problems, Star Dragon :) .
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: Star Dragon on January 28, 2007, 10:31:17 AM
@ MAV - TYVM! I will certainly look into this... Unfortunately Dawn of War: Dark Crusade oowns me ATM. I need to conquer the planet with the other 4 races still... It's a C&C clone warhammer 40k style but it's freaking awesome.

@ VA, not a problem, I do the collision, shoot testing, etc and 70-80% of my images are of tested stable ships.
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: Mav on January 28, 2007, 06:26:32 PM
Glad if I could help :) . I just hope it really solves your problems and that there isn't something else going on...

And yes, I know of  DoW: DC  - I'm thinking if I should buy it myself, eventually. At least seems it isn't as colour-less as the other two parts, and it even works without them :) .
Though, right now I have enough other things to do...
Title: i could use some help with converting a .cob moddel into a .pof
Post by: VA [TI] on January 29, 2007, 06:41:29 AM
Quote
@ VA, not a problem, I do the collision, shoot testing, etc and 70-80% of my images are of tested stable ships.


You haven't tested them in PCS yet, have you. :p

Quote
Open the model up in PCS, leaving the render window open. Go to the SubObjects tab and hit the "SortNorm Bounding Debug" button. Now look in the render window at the result.

If the mesh is solid and stable, it should appear like the Aeolus in the second pic. If not, it might appear as the ship in the first pic or worse.

Keep in mind that this is not a perfect indicator - it's just one of the easiest to test.