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Freespace => Freespace 2 MODing => Topic started by: TheFili on January 06, 2007, 01:18:10 PM

Title: Noob at Work (VP questions)
Post by: TheFili on January 06, 2007, 01:18:10 PM
Hi, after some responses I finally managed to convert a model to pof file.
Now: How do I get it into the game? I've searched the tutorial sites, but all the step-by-step instructions on this seem to have gone to the Great 404 in the sky.
The file and the textures are in the data/models, repsectively maps folder. I have already placed a modified ships.tbl in the root_fs2.vp, but then I get the following:

Error: Error parsing 'ships.tbl'
Error code = 1.

File:C:\projects\freespace2\code\Ship\Ship.cpp
Line: 1706

The placing of the textures and the model in the sparky_fs.vp didn't help either.

So, who can tell me what my painfully obvious mistake, please? ;)
Title: Noob at Work (VP questions)
Post by: karajorma on January 06, 2007, 02:19:02 PM
Never EVER alter the retail VPs. It's a really dreadful idea as if you cock up you can't simply go back to retail. Nor can you run with retail data and check if it's a bug in the code or with your model.

The cause of your problem is quite simple. Somehow you've stuffed up the ships table. If you're running on FS2 retail this is not good but it's even a bigger mistake on Open as you probably shouldn't even be touching the ships table on Open in the first place.

Get yourself back to retail data (and if you're using FS2_Open read up here (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Modular_Tables) on how to make a tbm) and I'll be more than happy to help you solve any problems you still have.

Until then it's hard to say what the actual cause of your problem is cause you may have actually broken the VP, saved the table in the wrong format or any manner of other problems in addition to the one which prevented it from working in Data\Tables.
Title: Noob at Work (VP questions)
Post by: Wanderer on January 06, 2007, 02:26:26 PM
Never EVER edit the main FreeSpace 2 vp files. Do not touch them.

If you want to place an ships.tbl that overrides the basic table found from the root_fs2.vp just place the table into data/tables directory.

You should leave the 'basic' FreeSpace 2 data directory untouched as well and put your own stuff into mod folders. Create a new directory named 'mymod' or something into the root FreeSpace 2 directory and create the needed directory structure there (like data/tables). Then select the mod with SCP Launchers mod option.
Title: Noob at Work (VP questions)
Post by: TheFili on January 06, 2007, 02:42:36 PM
Ah, OK. I will try your advices.

And of course, I made backup files (hope they help...)
Edit: Nope. That should be a lesson. FS2 still starts, but I guess I'll just reinstall (have the 3CD version).
Would you recommend switching to Open?
Title: Noob at Work (VP questions)
Post by: karajorma on January 06, 2007, 03:05:03 PM
Absolutely. If your machine can run open so should you :)
Title: Noob at Work (VP questions)
Post by: TheFili on January 08, 2007, 06:32:26 PM
So far your answers have been worth their weight in gold (OK, they don't weigh anything, but you get my meaning ;) ).

This question is a little more applications-specific. I have created a new plane, the model works in the game (see above). Now I want it to have a real texture instead of the smear I threw on it in the first run. I have done a an unwrapped UV map with Blender - but now, Truespace can't seem to do anything with it. The textures are either blurry or completely out of place. Is there any way for Truespace to recognize my maps or do I have to paint the textures manually?
Title: Noob at Work (VP questions)
Post by: VA [TI] on January 09, 2007, 01:42:47 AM
You'll need to export the blender model in a format that keeps the UV data. I've found that exporting it as a .x (a direct X model), opening it in 3d Exploration (from here: http://underworld.fortunecity.com/pacman/106/fs2mods/shipcreationguide/lithunwrap1-3.zip) and saving it as a cob file from there works best.

TS might be able to open the .x file without you having to use 3d exploration at all, but I think TS will just stick them all into one object.
Doing it the 3d Ex. way preserves any separate objects you had (and exported) from Blender. :)
Title: Noob at Work (VP questions)
Post by: Water on January 09, 2007, 07:40:30 AM
Blender's cob export keeps the UV info. It may be that a full install of python is needed.

Just tested it. Truespace auto assigned some other texture. Moved the correct texture to truespaces texture directory and reassigned it. To make it look better, also changed texture size to 256 (was set to 64)
Title: Noob at Work (VP questions)
Post by: VA [TI] on January 09, 2007, 09:30:03 AM
Cob export does keep the UV data - but loses the texture names, only exports one texture (a placeholder .tga), and can only export the simplest of heirarchies. ie: a child of a child of a child sorta thing. So, a hull and a turret will work, but a hull and two turrets won't. I think it also loses the centres of the objects about half the time.

Believe me, after you pointed out blender's UV editor to me on HLP (for which I'm eternally greatful to you :D ), I did a ton of experimenting with exporting. I was hoping for a way to cut out truespace's role entirely, but alas, that's not possible on anything beyond ultra-simple test ships. :(

What I did find has allowed me to enormously reduce TS's role though, which makes me very happy.

I've found the two best formats to export from blender are wavefront .obj's and direct X .x files - though neither can export any heirarchy at all. (in fact of all the formats you can export in blender, none of them seem able to export heirarchy properly)
Of those two, .x is a bit easier to use, seems less prone to texture map mixups and most importantly is able to keep all the objects separate if you do the 3d Exploration stopover.

After that, you just have to assemble/reassemble the heirarchy in TS, including object centres, and you're ready for the POF conversion. :)
Title: Noob at Work (VP questions)
Post by: Water on January 09, 2007, 11:59:08 AM
Thanks. That info is very useful :biggrin1:  I don't do pof stuff and am about to upload a UVed and textured model to DaBrain. Have been exporting in obj format but will have a look at the directx format.

On the Blender UV side. At some stage recently, they changed the default unwrap mode from conformal to angular. Drove me crazy for an hour or two. Conformal works great for boxy (freespace) stuff.

The current blender release candidate has better support for stuff I use.
The texture paint tool is much improved - now use it for painting on the model directly for basic layout and line work. It helps me out for lines and colours across UV boundary's - my old method wasn't fun. Also good for touching up those same areas after you've finished with  a paint program. It now has better support for global illumination / ambient occlusion - used to be a pain to get the result out to a paint package.
Title: Noob at Work (VP questions)
Post by: TheFili on January 09, 2007, 07:44:32 PM
Thanks, your help is much appreciated.
Being new involves overlooking the pretty obvious I guess. I just followed Water's example and changed the texture from 64 to 256 and now the texture looks a lot more like I intended it to. :D

Btw, nice to see that there are other people who don't like TrueSpace too much (feels like working with gloves on to me).
Title: Noob at Work (VP questions)
Post by: Water on January 10, 2007, 12:01:34 AM
Quote from: TheFili;53336

Btw, nice to see that there are other people who don't like TrueSpace too much (feels like working with gloves on to me).


I'm impressed that people can get useful stuff done with it. Mind you it is about 10 years old (ver3.2)
Title: Noob at Work (VP questions)
Post by: Taristin on January 10, 2007, 03:21:18 AM
DOnt worry, ver 6 isnt much better ;p
Title: Noob at Work (VP questions)
Post by: Selectah on January 10, 2007, 05:44:08 AM
Quote from: Water;53342
Mind you it is about 10 years old (ver3.2)
The wheel is, what, thousands of years old? Age don't mean much. Really.

Cordially,
~Selectah
Title: Noob at Work (VP questions)
Post by: Water on January 10, 2007, 08:29:52 AM
Quote from: Selectah;53356
The wheel is, what, thousands of years old? Age don't mean much. Really.


Try putting a set of Roman chariot wheels on a 1997 Toyota. ;)
Title: Noob at Work (VP questions)
Post by: Mav on January 23, 2007, 04:37:17 PM
Quote from: Water;53362
Try putting a set of Roman chariot wheels on a 1997 Toyota. ;)


At least that'll look funny for certain :biggrin1: .

Personally, I don't think tS is as bad as some people tell, I bought the 4.3 version some years ago and got quite accustomed to it - then, of course I didn't model nearly as much as said persons, and even if I'm right that it isn't bad, it doesn't mean other programs couldn't be far better... so I can't really tell much without having spent some time trying to use these other programs - which I won't, because what little time I get to use for modeling, I'd rather use to get some of my started models done (hopefully).

But if you work with it, be certain to uncheck the "delete edges" option every time you want to use booleans - not knowing that gave me alot of trouble and also made a rather nice kitbash rather unusable (it looks fine in tS, but it won't export :/ ) .
Title: heh
Post by: Star Dragon on January 28, 2007, 10:36:28 AM
Quote from: Selectah;53356
The wheel is, what, thousands of years old? Age don't mean much. Really.

Cordially,
~Selectah


Wow I got to agree with that...

  Personally I think age only matters in Sex or Car Insurance...