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Freespace => Freespace 2 MODing => Topic started by: FusionStorm on February 20, 2006, 09:15:26 PM

Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: FusionStorm on February 20, 2006, 09:15:26 PM
Ok, since alot of questions have been going around, I thought I would make this to keep them all in one thread..

Any modeling questions can be posted here, about any modeling program, I know the are experts here on the GWBB regarding all programs.;)

First question.

Quote from: TS-Midnight
Hey Fusion, no go.. niether of those buttons exsists in Wings 3d =/


Ok, this is an example of 1st pic: Combine and 2nd pic: Bridge.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: TS-Midnight on February 21, 2006, 12:50:37 AM
Thanks :)
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: anonomi on February 28, 2006, 03:55:09 PM
I have a question! might be a bit noobish tho...

Thanks to the wonderful FAQ by karajorma, I have figured out a fair bit of modding my own ship.  Im now aiming to work with textureing my new craft.

The thing is, i designed my ship in 3d studio max and used the pof exporter to create a pof.  I then tried to use Lithunwrap to create a uvmap texture that i could edit in photoshop.  But altho lithunwrap can import a pof, it doesnt seem to export a pof.  Any of the other export options just loose all my helpers and points.

I then tried a method of using uvunrwap within 3dstudio max.  This can give me a map, but i can seem to export it for use in photoshop.  The only way i can get it to work is to take a screenshot of the map and then paste it into photoshop and work with it from there.  Altho this does seem to work, its not terribly acurate and im sure there must be an easier way?

Any help would be greatly received!
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: FusionStorm on February 28, 2006, 09:01:55 PM
While in Lith,have you tried to export to .cob, and convert with POFCS?
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: anonomi on March 01, 2006, 12:08:32 AM
yup, i tried that.

But it looses all my gun placements and thruster markers etc.

I know i can reset these in POFCS but i find it easier to get the placements set up using 3dsm.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: VA [TI] on March 13, 2006, 01:02:23 PM
You can re-import all that pof data from your original pof via PCS as well. It's in Misc>Global Data Import.

However, it's definitely more efficient to get *all* the modeling and texturing done before you even do the turret geometry placement, let alone the pof data. :)
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: StarSlayer on March 19, 2006, 03:23:18 AM
I was curious as to whether anyone had tried tackling Battle Fleet Gothic of Warhammer 40K Fame.  Granted some of the ships are kind of homely and ostentatious though Sathanas sized(check out the -10X http://www.merzo.net/ (http://www.merzo.net/) ).  But if 40K Space battles are like Dawn of War it could be pretty interesting in FS2 Open.  Just a question not a request;)
(http://www.nugaming.com/assets/images/BFGGame.jpg)

oops my bad ask a modeler not a modder sorry for misplacing my post :drevil:
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: karajorma on March 19, 2006, 08:20:59 AM
I believe Killfrenzy did one or more of their ships a long while back. No idea where you'd find a link though.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Star Dragon on March 22, 2006, 09:35:38 PM
Question 1:  With 3.6 scp tables.  Can I define a unit as only beign able to Move x,y, (and maybe Z) but NOT have bank/roll?

This is for the future non-flying mechs/especially ground based destroids.


Question 2:

   Here's the basic idea. Mechs (in general) are AI units only. That stated their movement will only be forward back left right. Possible limited up.down. Unit consists of three paets
 
A: Lower/torso (main unit)
B: Visible or invisible waist joint (for rotation)
C: upper body/arms (turret/turret arm)

My thinking is that this will enable the mechs to appear to track targets and torso twist to have the front part face targets on it's own plane of orientation (within reason).. That's teh basics of it. Later on table editing for diff weapon and fire rates will control firing so not every attck is an alpha strike (in the case of like the War Hammer witch has clusters of armaments left and right slaser/machine gun/PPC)

I am awaiting final confirmation from Mulder, but that is how I advised him to proceed for a mech model test.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Star Dragon on April 03, 2006, 08:51:02 PM
What you go on vacation or something?


Anyway I wasted the whole day trying to figure out what I was doing wrong with turrets (going by Karajorma's tutorial) I found the axis button and thought I did them right. Anyway what is wrong with this turret?

I would appreciate if anyone could give me the answer (especially if you can fix it so I can copy it)
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: VA [TI] on April 04, 2006, 02:34:21 AM
The problem there is your heirarchy:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Misc/TurretHeirarchy1.jpg)
The first problem was that you had each separate barrel as a separate geometries with individual lights glued to them. This makes FS see each barrel as a separate subobject.

Then the base geometry is glued to another light, making the base geometry appear as a subobject of the base group - thus the game could easily mistake it for another barrel, because it's set up exactly like one. ;)

Here's how it should look:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Misc/TurretHeirarchy2.jpg)
The way to get this is to go pretty much from the bottom up. You do this by starting with the barrels - they should consist of a single chunk of geometry glued as a sibling to a light.
You then glue this whole newly created group to the base geometry as a child. The easiest way to accomplish this is to simply drag the "turret02-arm" group on top of the "base02" geometry in the heirarchy window.

Once that's done, you'll have what you see in the above pic, except the turret02-FP01 & 2 lights will still be separate. Drag them individually over the "turret02-base" group, and it should put them in the same heirarchy level as the base geometry (ie gluing them as a sibling to the base).

Hope that helps. :)
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Star Dragon on April 04, 2006, 01:34:32 PM
It does.. I got confused in the tut and opened a FS model to see the how the submodels looked, rotated ect..

I realised after a while I had to make a turret arm so I mistakenly glued a light at the end of each barrel (the firingpoints)...

I don't know what unioned means, I was hoping to make a turret arm by simple dragging as I thought the tut implied. Crap... I thoguht dragging them togeher made them a group, it makes them a diff kind of group. My apologies this is new to me. Never heard anyone say the word union in 3 years :D

So if I can get the above to work the final step is to glue it to the model right?  DO I still need a base light on the model hull itself? or will ligts on turrets take care of that? (will the hirearchy get messed?)
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: VA [TI] on April 04, 2006, 01:58:44 PM
A light glued to the hull isn't nessecary if the hull already has any sort of child subobject (turrets, radar, debris, lods etc). PCS works that bit out on it's own. :)

The boolean union is the Object Union tool - usually I would avoid it, but it's really the only thing you can use in truespace to accomplish this particular task.
Not sure which version of TS you use, but in mine the Boolean tools are in the middle left of the bottom main control pannel - their icons involve green and red spheres. To use, simply select the first barrel's geometry, click the 'Object Union' button, and then click the second barrel's geometry.

There are two types of actions that can occur with a drag and drop operation in the heirarchy window:
1) Dragging and dropping an existing object group onto another object or object group will make the first group a child of the second one, meaning it is on the heirarchy level below it's parent.

2) Dragging and droping a single object (ie, a single light or geometry) onto another object or object group will make the first object a sibling of the second, meaning it is on the same heirarchy level as the first.

To glue turrets to the model, you will be performing type 1 - since the turrets must be children of the main hull. In this case you'd drag the whole turret object (ie, the highest level of the turrets heirarchy) over the main hull geometry/object group.

Another handy thing I've learned is that when you've finished with your heirarchy and are ready to convert, select something other than your ship and then re-select your ship on it's highest heirarchy level. I don't have a clue what this does, but I recall it being the difference between a PCS crash and successful conversion with a really old model, so I've done it ever since, just in case. ;)
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Star Dragon on April 04, 2006, 03:44:43 PM
TY I will try that...

Got anotehr quick turret question. I got a ball turret type that is a small hemisphere that has texture based firing points Can you make the base alone rotate as the firing point will have a restrictive arc that simulates elevation but really doesn't need any movement on the X axis.. Or do I still need to make a invisible arm?  basicly this is a single part turret that merely rotates on the Z axis... Doable?
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Axem on April 04, 2006, 11:39:05 PM
Do you really need to union turret barrels? I've always just put both of them as a child of the turret base along with two firing point lights.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: VA [TI] on April 05, 2006, 01:47:12 AM
Easy actually - just make the turret's base geometry a tiny cube that won't get seen, and make the ball of the turret the arm. If the centre of the arm is in the centre of the sphere, and the centre of the cube is in the same spot, and this spot is in line with the hull, the turret will rotate like a ball. :)

Like this:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/TurretDiagram1.jpg)

As for unioning the turret barrels - it's not absolutely nessecary, you're right. PCS will merge them into one geometry on conversion if it finds two geometries in the same subobject on the same heirarchy level.

However, I've experienced first hand that doing it this way can cause Z buffer problems if any sort of transparency is used, thus it's much safer to union them, though not imperative. Certainly not a reason to reconvert something if that's the only thing 'wrong' with it. :)
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Star Dragon on April 05, 2006, 12:49:54 PM
ops!   It's not a complete ball, it's half a sphere ^  But thanks!!! I will have actual ball turrets l8tr on and that info will come in handy!. Still will try ti that way but I fea that it may elevate too far forward or abck and reveal teh open plane.. I'll post a poc of it later adn my experiement
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: VA [TI] on April 05, 2006, 03:01:31 PM
It wouldn't happen to look like something like this would it?
http://webzoom.freewebs.com/twisted-infinities-va/MiscStuff/New%5FTurretBeamTest.avi

(sorry, the beam effect is horrible, but the rotation style is the point of interest. ;) )
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Star Dragon on April 05, 2006, 04:06:01 PM
close... arg I had it workign but the rotations were reversed, fixed it now it won't fire at all.... Plus turret01-base shows up as a submodel (?) I opened teh cheops for comparision and all their turrets only habe turretx and turretx-arm sub models, am I doing somethign wrogn with glue??? The hull part is complicated so I can't use manual tool and buttons for child/sibling at that point, I have to use the extension hierarcy dropping...

damn truied to upload, 700kb too big....

{edit]  Pls take a look and see if I screwed up.  DF extension means dorsal front. Turret is oriented to face forward on top of bow. I will have these facign rear, Ventral forward and Ventral rear as well...

http://www.filelodge.com/files/room11/271790/Model%20WIPs/ikaturret.rar

Long term goal is to get center point working then add two firing points to either side of main one matching texture, they will fire simultaneously (all being FP-01)...

Looks like you are not on anymore today.. I will see who's on messenger...

I just had an idea and opened the turret agin...My light's and axsi are GONE... I downloaded the file I posted and that's stripped too....I have to start all over again... This is very frustrating...
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: VA [TI] on April 05, 2006, 04:55:40 PM
Just follow this heirarchy:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Misc/TurretHeirarchy2.jpg)

Yours currently looks like this:

Turret01-base
---|
---|- BaseGeometry
---|
---|- ArmGeometry

This will create a single part turret when converted, which is obviously not what you want.



You're after this:

Turret01-base--<= Object Group (highest heirarchy level)
---|
---|- BaseGeometry-----<= This Object is glued to....
---|
---|- Turret01-arm------<= ....this Object Group on the same heirarchy level
--------|
--------|-ArmGeometry----<= This Object is glued to....
--------|
--------|- Light-----------<= ....this Light on the same heirarchy level

To do that, make the Turret01-arm Object Group first - take the ArmGeometry and glue a light to it as a sibling. Then in the heirarchy editor rename the group (not the light or the ArmGeometry - the parent group you just created) to Turret01-arm.

When that's done, drag the Turret01-arm Object Group onto the BaseGeometry object. This will make the ArmGeometry and it's sibling light child objects of the BaseGeometry object, and you should end up with the heirarchy format you see in the above screenie (though as you did with the Turret01-arm Object Group, you'll need to rename it to something like Turret01-base.) :)

To attach your new turret to the hull of your ship, staying in the heirarchy editor, simply select the highest level of heirarchy of your turret (in this case the Turret01-base Object Group), and drag it over your main hull Object Group or geometry - just as you did with the Turret01-arm Object Group.
This will glue your new turret to the hull as a child object, which is as it should be.

And you're done. :)
If you're still having trouble, say so and I'll whack some demonstration pics together if you like.

Edit: Oops, missed this bit sorry: "opened the turret agin...My light's and axsi are GONE"
Errm, make sure you save it as a .scn file rather than a .cob. Beyond that I can't really help there. :\
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Star Dragon on April 05, 2006, 05:19:26 PM
Not a problem. I think I'll be logging soon...  The thing was I had it working as a single part turret, but just would not turn left or right. then later it worked but the half cricle rotated OFF the hull at the X axis in stead of the firing point rotating around it and the half circle rotating on the Z axis went back into modelview and reversed that, but then it stopped working at all and would neither turn no fire....

I was just wondering why I had a submodel called base01, and under it turret01 and then turret arm01 when every ship I've seen only has 2 entries per turret (if they are multi-part) tha'ts why I wondered if I wsa doing something wrong  but of course you won't know now cause it got stripped (but I did have it look exactly as you posted before which confused me though. I did it...
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Star Dragon on April 05, 2006, 06:03:34 PM
I'm having a really PEACHY day today... I just locked up TS3.2 somehow and now my eyepoint cannot rotate. I can onyl walk through world or move eyepoint but I cannot rotate it..... ARG!!!  Any idea how to unlock it? I shut it down and opened it again, still locked. Great I go back to work in 7 hours... I've been fighting this turret issue since I got home...

{edit] problem solved I said screw it and deleted TS and reinstalled...
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: VA [TI] on April 07, 2006, 09:40:28 AM
Quote from: Star Dragon
then later it worked but the half cricle rotated OFF the hull at the X axis in stead of the firing point rotating around it and the half circle rotating on the Z axis went back into modelview and reversed that, but then it stopped working at all and would neither turn no fire....
If you're still having that problem, it means your axes are off - you need to define the axis for the Turret01-base Object Group as well as for the Turret01-arm Object Group - the axes you define for the individual base and arm geometries are not used. Only those for the Object Groups.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Star Dragon on April 07, 2006, 12:21:58 PM
Heh np, I will cut and paste these posts for easier reference... I am sure I will get this down someday..  If I sound frustrated, it's only with myself and TS3.2

I appreciate the help you've given!
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: VA [TI] on April 07, 2006, 01:47:03 PM
No worries - once you get the gist of object groups, geometries, heirarchy, lights and axes, it should all become much easier. You should be a good part of the way there already actually. :)

If you're still confused/find more questions, keep asking here, and I'll do my best to answer. ('tis what the thread's for after all. :) )

Incidentally - a good way to understand heirarchy is to think of it like an arm. Your arm is the highest level of heirarchy, your palm a child object of it, and your fingers children of the palm. Thus when you move your arm, you move your palm and fingers. When you move your palm, you move your fingers, and your fingers can still move on their own.
A bit cheesy I know, but it really is a good way to learn the concept. ('tis how I learned it 4 years back anyway ;) )

Oh, and finally, see if there's any way you can 'acquire' a better version of TS, since 3.2 is mind numbing to use and has more bugs than Battlefield 2.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Star Dragon on April 08, 2006, 03:10:03 AM
I tried it a few diff ways end result come sout teh same, turret will only work in reverse meaning both sections rotate wrong but ti will fire. It works normally in modelview but will not fire in game.  So I reverse teh rotation axi adn it works as shown...
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: VA [TI] on April 08, 2006, 03:19:20 AM
Hmm, could you PM/post your pof so I can take a look? I have an idea of what may be happening, but I can't say for certain. A pof would greatly help in this regard. :)
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Star Dragon on April 08, 2006, 05:00:27 AM
Sure, keep in mind this turret is onl one of many diff attempts I keep overwriting each time so there is only this one.
http://www.filelodge.com/files/room11/271790/Model%20WIPs/Ikazuchi.rar
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: VA [TI] on April 08, 2006, 09:44:25 AM
Ah, ok - I can see what's happening here. You've basically got the roles of the turret base and the turret arm reversed. What you would have been seeing in-mission is FS trying to 'aim' the turret base as though it was the barrel, because as far as FS is concerned, it is. ;)

You're basically trying to create a single part rotating turret as opposed to a multi-part one. Obviously, you want it to spin on the spot - just like the base of a multi part turret, but you don't want any barrels aiming at things.
The way to achieve this is basically to make the barrels invisible. Just take that current hidden cube you have (which is acting as the base), and place it as close to where you want the actual firepoints as possible without it peaking through the hull.
Then you glue it to a light to create the "Turret01-arm" Object Group, and you glue that as a child to the base geometry, thus creating the "Turret01-base" Object Group.

What will happen is that as far as FS is concerned, it's a perfectly normal multipart turret, but to the player, only the base will rotate - there will be no apparent turret arms.
If you then set the actual firepoint to shoot straight out of the centre of the cube (the turret arms), then those shots should emerge very close to the textured-on firepoints.

Another small issue I spotted is that you've got:
$special=subsystem
$fov=180
$name=GunTurret
Written in both parts of the turret's subsystem properties. It should only appear in the base's properties, with the arms properties left blank. :)
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Star Dragon on April 08, 2006, 01:53:00 PM
thanks! I was gonna try teh invisible thingy (liek I do for Trek) a little later, just wanted to get it workign first. As fro teh double table.. seems liek teh mods I opened had that so I was merely going by what I saw.

Is that part of the reason it won't fire UNLESS I reverse the roles (as yo u poiunted out) as doing it normal (liek I tried first) won't work at the moment.

Will try your suggestions out and then report back... I tried a turret starman kindly loaded up for me and when I opened it in TS something happened to it (which is wierd cause it is a NEW install)  Again normal would NOT work so I reverse teh roles, now it works but of course wrongly...

   It might very well be something with 3.2  I am currently, lookign around (this weekend)...
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: VA [TI] on April 08, 2006, 02:07:56 PM
It sounds like a good chunk of your troubles are arising from TS 3.2. Having briefly tried it myself, that's not surprising.
I remember one bug where if part of my model were off the side of the screen, TS would 'fold' the part that was offscreen back onto the screen, resulting in much annoyance from me. :\



From what I can tell of that pof, the reason it wouldn't fire *is* because of that role reversal.
Basically, the way you'd set up the turret in terms of pof data (ie, the turrets section in modview's editor) meant that the little cube was the arm and the turret model was the base, while according to the subobject heirarchy, it was the other way around.

Without that correct matching object heirarchy, the game probably became confused about how it was to rotate, because it was being told that both parts of the turret were the base, and both were the arm at the same time by different sources. ;)
If you now set up the heirarchy the way I showed you in the previous post, all should work correctly.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Star Dragon on April 09, 2006, 09:00:40 PM
Did it. The main problem was gun gun data entry dupication. For some strange reason that renders normal matching not able to fire, but if you reverse the arm and base in model view it does fire, albiet wrongly.

Now that all that confusionis out of the way I got just one more issue.

For these kind of turrets both 2 and 3 point beams have to fire simultaneously..  While I could simply use my 2 and 3 beam texures like I did for Starblazers, inthe end it does look rather silly as from the side when you look at them from a side view they appear verticle (as if the three barrels were on top of one another instead of next to each other on same plane). They work , BUT look best when seen from in front. behind, above or below a ship, side view kills the illusion...

If there a command or proceedure to make 2 extra firing points on either side of the center one, BUT to have them all fire at same time when that turret is to engage? If not that's ok, I will just go back to my multi beam textures.

Ie: like these blue ones
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9114/SBvsShivans2.jpg)
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: VA [TI] on April 10, 2006, 09:03:16 AM
Hmm, two possible solutions come to mind here:
1) Do what the Aeolus does with the side flak turrets. Go into the turrets section in modview, and create two additional turrets, but get them to use the same turret parts as the first one.
If you then have 1 actual firepoint on each of the turrets, it should be able to fire 3 separate beams simultaneously.

However, I have not tried that with multipart turrets, so I can't say if it works properly with them (ie, what happens when the beams want to shoot different targets? What does the turret model do?)
The other problem with this method is that the beams probably won't fire simultaneously. This can be enforced though if you apply system 2 to it though. ;)

2) Not sure how ideal this one would be either, but you could try SEXPing each of the three-turrets-in-one-mesh to fire a beam  at the same time, but this can also work even if you're only using one turret.

Basically, if you tell a beam cannon to fire a shot, and then another shot and another shot with no delay between them, all three shots emerge at once from the same cannon. You could try this with the orion's main guns, since it has 3 fire points on each turret.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Star Dragon on April 10, 2006, 03:10:38 PM
Thanks! I'll try solution#1 as #2 is just too intensive for normal mission use (maybe a cutscene).

  I tried earlier making 3 firing points on 3 arms in teh same turret (x3 in turret01) only one fired.

l8tr!  (Gonna be making more pof's of buildigns for Macross Isle, unfortunately we lost teh interiors Trashman was working on.)
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: [dw]-hunter on April 13, 2006, 04:52:16 AM
hey guys, a friend and I designed a new capitol ship for a campaign we are making and we cant figure out how to put textures on it using truespace, nor are we able to import it into POF Constructor Suite to convert it to a pof to test it. heres some pics below, we could really use some tips or perhaps someone to help us make textures.

(http://www.freespacezone.com/files/renders/titan/front.jpg)
(http://www.freespacezone.com/files/renders/titan/side.jpg)
(http://www.freespacezone.com/files/renders/titan/top.jpg)
(http://www.freespacezone.com/files/renders/titan/3d.jpg)
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: VA [TI] on April 13, 2006, 10:55:57 AM
Well, I'll assume that you're completely new to texturing, so I'll explain the process in that level of detail. If you already know some/most of the stuff, then just skip over it, but if you don't, it's very handy to know how the system works. :)

Ok, there are 3 basic components involved here: the geometry itself, the UV map, and the texture.
The geometry is just a number of connected faces (usually triangles) that form your mesh. The texture is a just a regular image. The UV map is what defines _how_ that texture image is to be applied to the geometry - sorta like your wrapping technique defines how wrapping paper (ie, a 2D image) is applied to a present (ie, 3d object).

The simplest (easiest but usually the worst looking) form of UV mapping is called UV projection in Truespace. It basically maps your whole object in one go. The button(s) look like this:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Misc/UV_Projection.jpg) in Truespace. Click and hold to bring up the little list of tools you can use as shown in the pic above. Clicking any of them will apply that type of UV projection to your entire selected object - it will overide any and all existing UV projections/mappings, and cannot be undone. (SAVE OFTEN!!!!)

To use this method, first select your ship and apply whichever projection seems to overall suit the shape of the ship. To set this projection, click the mouse icon.
Now you need to apply some actual texture(s).
Open up the material editor:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Misc/MaterialEditor.jpg)
and then open up the colour pane (the one with the red line showing it's button in the above pic).
Right-click the colour pane (which should initially appear as a colour selector), and from the "Colour Shaders" window that pops up, choose the caligari "texture map".
Now you can right-click the colour pane again and select an image you want to use as a texture.

To apply this texture to your model, you use the three tools shown on the left of the material editor - flood fill on top, and paint-face and replace sharing the second place (click and hold the button to bring up the list of tools, just like the UV projection tool).

Using the paint-face brush, you can paint individual faces with a currently active texture. This is allright to start off with, but you'll soon find that you need more projection flexability.

Now, the most advanced form of UV mapping is UV unwrapping (a good tutorial for this can be found here (http://underworld.fortunecity.com/pacman/106/fs2mods/shipcreationguide/uvmappingyourmodelusinglu.html#)), which involves manipulating the UV projections of individual faces or groups in a program like Lithunwrap, but you'll most likely want in intermediate step to warm up to that level.

Remember how you applied a UV projection to your whole selected ship? Well you can do the same thing to individual selected faces, and even better, groups of selected faces.
To select faces/groups of faces, right click your model, hold ctrl, and select all the faces that you want to apply a certain type of projection to. Planar usually works best, but it's up to you and what you're selecting.

Again, applying a UV projection to those faces will overide whatever the main projection is for them, but it will only do this for those particular faces. It is also still not undoable, so SAVE OFTEN!

You can also manipulate the projection you select by the box frame thing that appears around your selected faces:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Misc/UV_ProjectionApplication.jpg)

While this doesn't quite match the flexability and raw efficiency of UV mapping in Lith, it is a fairly good way to learn the concept. :)

Finally, remember not to use too many textures on it overall, as every additional texture on your ship will degrade performance overall.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: [dw]-hunter on April 13, 2006, 06:08:11 PM
well we made a bunch of modifications, then put the textures on using ur help (thanks a lot) but now when i try to open the cob in POF Suite it gives me this error :

(http://www.freespacezone.com/files/renders/titan/wtf.jpg)
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: karajorma on April 13, 2006, 07:24:56 PM
Add a turret to the ship (Check my turreting tutorial in my FAQ for details) or simply glue a light onto the ship.

PCS won't let you convert a .cob that consists of just the mesh. You need a hierarchy. Adding a turret or light will do that and seeing as how you'll need to add turrets anyway.....
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: [dw]-hunter on April 15, 2006, 01:16:28 AM
wheres the "glue" button?
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: FusionStorm on April 15, 2006, 01:39:20 AM
#39

http://www.geocities.com/weather_op/tooloverview2.html
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Star Dragon on April 15, 2006, 04:47:01 PM
I just boomarked your tutorial...
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: karajorma on April 15, 2006, 10:01:56 PM
Quote from: '[dw
-hunter']wheres the "glue" button?

You may also find it easier to use the TrueView extension to drag and drop things into the right hierarchy (Which has the same effect as gluing things).

If for some reason you don't have a copy of TrueView you can get it here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/FAQ/Downloads/TruView.rar)
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: [dw]-hunter on April 17, 2006, 03:42:33 AM
check that link again, its linking to a hard drive.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: karajorma on April 17, 2006, 09:09:25 AM
Doh. That will teach me to use my local copy of the FAQ rather than the uploaded version :D

Fixed
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: [dw]-hunter on April 17, 2006, 06:22:26 PM
heres a fighter we came up with last night :)

(http://www.freespacezone.com/images/fighter2a.JPG)
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: VA [TI] on April 18, 2006, 09:28:34 AM
Not bad, not bad. :)

A couple of suggestions:
1) Though it's not a big issue any more with the HTL engine, using huge numbers of polys on rounded objects is generally bad because you'll never actually be able to see the difference between a regular rounding and a super-rounding. ;)

2) Again though it doesn't matter in space, it generally looks sleeker and thus cooler to slant the leading edges of many surfaces in one direction or another, as opposed to facing the non-existant 'wind' with a perpendicular surface. Ie, slanting the wings and tail fins back would help immensely in this regard, as would slanting parts of the missile bays sometimes.

3) There's generally no reason to model in the missile tubes unless you plan to use those external hardpoints that someone (Bob?) coded in a while back - where the missile pofs are actually visible on the ship model, and fly off when fired, like missiles on a jet today.

4) More greebles! The hull details you've got on the wings are good - if you add that sorta thing to the rest of the hull, and especially if you incorporate such shapes into the overall hull shape, they add a level of realism that textures usually can't match. :)
(mind you, this is comming from a confessed greeble-holic (http://www.sectorgame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2125), so just don't go overboard. ;) )
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: [dw]-hunter on April 18, 2006, 06:01:52 PM
our ship has over 14000 polys lol and the missle holes are just for looks for now, we are going to take those out and make them textures later on. Although Ive been thinking about changing the rear wing, it doesnt exactly fit the models looks. We are thinking about making it a strike bomber ( kinda like the athena only this handles a lot better, so it can double over as a fighter )
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: karajorma on April 19, 2006, 10:18:54 AM
You'll need to trim that down somewhat. You might get away with that many polys in a capital ship but it's far too much for a fighter.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: [dw]-hunter on April 19, 2006, 08:35:28 PM
yea its the hull that takes up that many polys. we are going to fix that next.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: VA [TI] on May 03, 2006, 12:21:33 PM
Here's my question to all the texture gurus that hang around here:

What are some good techniques to use when drawing metal hull textures? I've got an area the size of Greenland to texture, and only one main plating technique to use. :\

The results are not pretty - see the thread here: http://www.sectorgame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2260
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: [dw]-hunter on May 05, 2006, 04:23:45 AM
im having trouble editing the orion in POF suite, im trying to make the orion have a texture on the side that says GTD Intrepid on the side but when i load it it says GTD Bastion on the side... wtf?

EDIT : Scratch that, got it to work
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: [dw]-hunter on May 06, 2006, 10:15:49 PM
scratch that, got it to work
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Flipside on November 17, 2006, 12:32:41 AM
Hi all :) Well, I've been modding FS2 for a while, so I thought I'd post a couple of examples here. Those of you from HLP have already seen these, but hey, I like to show off ;)

(http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/TVHyb1g.jpg)

The Azaes, my own attempt at creating a Terran/Vasudan hybrid with gatling guns and a large missile capacity. Downloadable as a .vp file at

http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/Azaes.zip

- includes a normal map, though the SCP doesn't support them, but is certainly planning to in the future.

And

(http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/TFig1.jpg)

The Autolycus, small, fast, delivers a lot of pain into a very small area. Available as a .vp at

http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/Autolycus.zip

I'm currently trying to get back into modelling after a very long hiatus, so you may well see some more stuff appearing from me ;)
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Taristin on November 23, 2006, 04:03:23 AM
your ships look like http://www.digitalmedia.cz/3d/mailing/back/spaceship.jpg a little.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Cobra on December 04, 2006, 09:30:55 PM
I'm having difficulties with Truespace saving .cob files. Apparently whenever I save the damn thing, the entire model disappears, leaving behind one subobject that i've marked invisible so I can turret the USS Constitution, and importing .scn files doesn't quite work the way it should, as I get a fatal error whenever I try to enter a mission.

Oh, for the saving to .cob error, I'm using Omni's truespace model dump.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Star Dragon on December 07, 2006, 10:34:45 PM
Not really into the first one Flipside, but the Autolycus looks Sweet!

Keep them comming!

Incidently the search function on both GW and HLP is not finding terms "Model Dump" or "Omni Dump" by him.  where is this link to Omniscaper's Model Dump? (It probably came out during my recent downtime).
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Flipside on December 10, 2006, 02:04:25 PM
Thanks :)

To be honest I was never 100% on the Azaes mesh myself, it was 'nearly' there as far as a blend of Terran/Vasudan tech was concerned, but regardless of how I altered it, it always look either too stretched or too 'fat'. I think it ended up just being a concept model for getting the Gatling Guns working ;)
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: takashi on December 20, 2006, 02:06:22 AM
i need help desinging a star-fox style ship, and im new to blender!

how do i get it to work?
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: VA [TI] on December 20, 2006, 08:40:49 AM
Can't really help on the design side of things other than advising you to draw it before you try modeling it, but I can help with the Blender bit. :)

I've written up a small overview/quickstart guide here in this thread: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,42815.msg879403.html#msg879403

Soon enough I'm planning to write a full tutorial on how to build, texture and get ships in-game via Blender, but until then tutorials are your best bet (links are given in that overview/quickstart guide thing).

Any specific questions though, just ask here. :)
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: takashi on December 20, 2006, 06:56:17 PM
thanks!
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Star Dragon on December 27, 2006, 05:30:28 AM
Excuse my bad attitude, but I just wasted bout 7-8 hours on a turreting job. (I told Axem 5 but I just looked at the clock again 2-3 till midnight, meh)

This is friggen pissing me off. The Ikazuchi .cob normally converts no problem. I decided to use today to get all the turrets done. I placed 14 rotating hemispheres on top, 8 missile tubes in various places, and 32 defense beam turret style things all over the sides.

Now on conversion PCS dies (surprised?) and Modelview say too many chunks.

What the heck is a "chunk" and how can I reduce them? Do I need to start taking turrets off?

I has a suspicion it's beacause of all the loose parts of the model. I tried union to weld objects together into "one part" but nothing happens...


ARGH!

(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b321/Star-Dragon/ikazuchi.jpg)
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Flipside on January 02, 2007, 04:07:52 PM
If it's SCP, the parts should have no effect whatsoever, if it's not then they may well affect things.

Chunks are 'sections', so a turret may well be considered a 'chunk', I think FS2 can handle the higher number of turrets, I'm pretty sure PCS can too (remember to give it a good 5 mins to convert on some models, it may look like it's hung but might actually be working).

It might also be something to do with the hierarchy making the converter get caught in a loop, I used to keep forgetting to put the terminating light in with the main hull mesh, and that caused all kinds of havoc ;)

Can you post an image of the Hierarchy?
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Star Dragon on January 03, 2007, 12:59:11 AM
I know I had one but I'll post it when I get off work tomorrow morning. Basically the hierarchy is gonna be longer than the screen in Trueview and that's just the normal parts.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: TheFili on January 04, 2007, 10:34:19 PM
Hi,
I am an absolute noob at working with FS2, but I just wanted to give it a try. So I fooled around with an older plane model I still had on my drive - butt-ugly and one single mesh, but it serves the purpose (until I find time to make a better one).
Now, I did some texturing with TrueSpace and saved the object as well as the scene, but now I can't get any program to convert it into POF.
POF Constructor for example tells me "You forgot to group those objects."
Can anyone please tell my why?
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: karajorma on January 04, 2007, 10:37:48 PM
Basically PCS won't convert a model unless it has a light glued to it. Check the turretting tutorial in my FAQ for more info on how to glue things if you don't already know.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: TheFili on January 05, 2007, 11:48:38 AM
*slaps forehead* Ah. OK. Now I see it. And now, of course, I find the Hardlight Wiki where the exact mistake is listed.
Thanks, your advice took care of the POFCS problem. But apparently this model is not suitable for FS2. I'll have to model one specifically, I guess.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: takashi on January 12, 2007, 04:34:11 AM
i recently made an arwing moddel in bark basic, and exported to a .X... and used 3d explorer to export to a COB. now i have one problem....gunpoints. finding coordinates for all 4 guns is impossible in truespace and i need a decent method. after all... arwings cant have turrets >.<
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: FusionStorm on January 12, 2007, 04:43:00 AM
Gunpoints are created while the file is a POF, in program like POFCS or Modelview.

My favorite way of adding gunpoints is using POFCS and Modelview, and the eyepoint as a marker to where to put my coordinates.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: takashi on January 12, 2007, 04:44:15 AM
(http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/4485/gunpointsarentworkingcg9.png) (http://imageshack.us)

seems im facing a similar problem as with that other ship... i cant find coordinates for guns, and one side is always wirefreame.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: KewlToyZ on May 16, 2008, 06:09:54 PM
Just create gunpoints from there.
Click the icon on the left to the right side of the dialog near "Slots".
Then simply adjust the numbers until they appear where you want them.
Start incrementally by setting X, Y, Z all equal to one and see where the point moves to to get an idea where it is positioning.
Adjust each axis accordingly individually so you can tell which direction you need to move to.
These numbers can also be negative, (i.e. -0.875)
Hope this helps :p
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: karajorma on May 16, 2008, 07:49:13 PM
After an entire year I think he's either found the solution himself or given up. :rolleyes:
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: KewlToyZ on June 14, 2008, 04:29:03 AM
LOL Yeah I wreak of necro stupidity at times :p
Is HLP the best place to find out how to texture a 3ds file for POF conversion?
I'm using Rhino for most of my modeling then installing the 2009 3DS Max demo to try and texture it and finally my ancient 3DS Max 4 to do the POF conversion.

I just wanted to add some bare bones capital ships to the Arch Angel MOD for BtRL.
3rd party less than canon stuff. Skull already gave me permission as long as I show him the stuff first. Give you guys a break from people asking for updates or more ships too.
I figure I got at least another month or two before having a stable ship for a mission though at least. Just having fun with the hobby like building models except I get to fly them in a simulator
Not to mention blow them up over and over! :D
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: takashi on June 16, 2008, 02:10:19 AM
Quote from: karajorma;100343
After an entire year I think he's either found the solution himself or given up. :rolleyes:


I figured it out, and went on to make somewhat better models. the wireframe problem WAS normalflipping from mirroring in blender, and the model was made of extruded off of and scaled cubes.

Now i use Cylinders and greebles =D
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: KewlToyZ on August 31, 2008, 02:25:18 AM
Question regarding Glass panels, Am I supposed to make a texture for it and UV map it in Lithunwrap for it to show up clear in PCS2? All other 3D programs it shows up clear:
i.e. Deep Exploration, TS 7.6, Rhino 4, Maya 6.5, but when I get it into a cob for PCS it shows up a dark grey opaque mesh? I was wondering if it had to be a closed Mesh polygon to work or if it can be a simple mesh plane.?

Also, I noticed in Lithunwrap it lists -Z (negative Z axis) as front,
and my modeling program (Rhino) says -Y (negative y axis) is the front.
When I brought my model into PCS2 all new points (gun, thrusters, glow, etc..)
were always showing the direction ray pointing 90 degrees to the left of the pilots view? That would be +X?
Which axis is front in a POF for PCS2?

I just want to work things out so my preferences in my default modeling template is meters and always showing the proper axis as the front.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Star Dragon on August 31, 2008, 04:51:27 PM
Scooby Doo on HLP is the one to ask as he's a glass/cockpit expert...

This is Getter Robo G...
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: KewlToyZ on September 02, 2008, 04:39:45 PM
Quote from: Star Dragon;106234
Scooby Doo on HLP is the one to ask as he's a glass/cockpit expert...

This is Getter Robo G...

Thanks m8, was trying to get someones attention during the holiday weekend.
Got slammed with "Honey Do" lists, so I ended up putting in a new sink, fridge, lights, and floor tiling for a kitchen then doing a BBQ for 30 people over the weekend :p

Scooby gave me a clue over there, more drudging through TS to do over what I had lol!
Thats ok though, I keep adding more detail to the thing as I go since I have to keep doing it over and over. I wish I could just pull data and names from a text into the heirarchy editor, gets a bit old copying and remaking lights and groups over and over. From what I gathered, I need to combine these parts so I don't have a subsystem for every piece anyhow and I can start messing with the bump mapping a little on less textures as well. Figured out what the environment maps did with some oddball images, freaked me out seeing faces looking back out of the geometry! I won't be doing that for the models, looks like what they did for that ghosted Raider someone made available.
Could be interesting for the Stealth aspect of these ships to use a starfield environment map as camouflage though, but they really eat up so much memory.
I think since I tried a little cheat having all of the parts mapped to the same bmp it corrupted the bmp file. Windows will open it and view it but PSP7 & Lithunwrap says the texture file is invalid for some reason.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: KewlToyZ on September 12, 2008, 12:22:28 AM
FYI The nose of the model should point to the positive X axis in Rhino.
Positive Z is of course up.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: OmegaUltima on July 18, 2009, 11:56:46 PM
I've had an interest in modding as far back as I can remember but I've refrained from trying to leap into things until I was sure that I was a little confident in my abilities, like modeling and programming as examples.

A number of years have passed and I'm feeling pretty confident enough to try making a mod. The main problem I'm facing right now though is that I haven't the slightest clue on how to go about modding Freespace open.

For all those vertain modders, what would be the best way to go about begining a new mod and how or where would be the best place to start? I slightly remember someone mentioning that making a few Freespace missions in Fred is a great place to start to get into things, but how would I go about doing things like importing ships to Freespace as well as customising the programming?
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Star Dragon on July 19, 2009, 01:43:17 AM
Each one of those topics are covered a bit more in detail here (search is wonky) but do it via google and you'll probably find old threads/tutorials.

Plus the FS2 WIKI on site.

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php


Most importantly you used the word "MOD" which can mean a LOT of things.


I would work on making one model you feel comfortable with displaying, and then make a table entry for it by copying an existing fighter and convert your textures to (shuddup peanut gallery!) 8 bit PCX's for TESTING and then use FRED to get it in game.

If you can see it and when you fire on it, blow it up with no crash. then you are ready for other things like back ground images, or custom animations for briefings and a slew of other "stuff".

It all depends on the scope of what you want to do/mod.

Are you staying in the FS2 universe, are you going to do a TC. Are you just making a few new ship additions? Are yo going to just use existign assets to make a small FS2 mission? Are you going to have voice acting?

Regardless making an OUTLINE of your goal and steps to get there is helpful. it also tells people in what areas specifically you want/need help in...

Being vague is a good way of having peopel just flip by and not respond.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: OmegaUltima on July 19, 2009, 04:53:41 AM
Thanks, Star Dragon. I'll grab my shovel and have a look through the archives and see what's there. I'm just plerplexed that it wasn't stickied or on the first page so I figured it hadn't have been asked. I'll check around next time though.

I didn't notice I was being too vague, but that's true - I should've included information on what kind of a mod I was persuing rather than just saying a 'mod'.  

The mod in question is planned on being a TC for an original universe using the Freespace engine, which of course would need the whole box and dice; original ships, effects, weapons and so on. The mod's in planning stages at the moment, I'm still putting bits inside the story as well as finding out how I want the gameplay to be like, no idea on things such as voice acting just yet, I plan to work on them a bit later.

One of the main questions I suppose at the moment is the extent of how open ended the programming side of the Freespace engine is. I've seen a number of new things done such as cockpits mentioned prior, so I was wondering if there was a certain limit of what could be done.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: DaBrain on July 19, 2009, 09:03:23 AM
Starting a new project might not be a good idea.

I think you should first try to join another project and help to complete it.
After getting some experience and taking a look how another project works and where the prolblems were/are, you have a way better understanding of what you can and what you can't do in your own new project.

And a nice side effect of joining another project is getting to know other modders, who might join your project later. :)
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: OmegaUltima on July 19, 2009, 11:32:25 PM
Quote from: DaBrain;117783
Starting a new project might not be a good idea.

I think you should first try to join another project and help to complete it.
After getting some experience and taking a look how another project works and where the prolblems were/are, you have a way better understanding of what you can and what you can't do in your own new project.

And a nice side effect of joining another project is getting to know other modders, who might join your project later. :)


That's probably the best thing to do actually. I might have a look around for any groups in current need of a modeler/animator.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Rodo on August 02, 2009, 02:20:30 AM
Hi there! I need a hand with this...

so I've been texturing/uv mapping (or whatever it is) my model on blender but I have a problem now...

I've loaded chunks of the model separately so it's easy to edit and all stuff but I guess I'm using a lot of textures because now blender does not allow me to add a new texture group.. AHH please help mee!


here's a pic, where the red circule is drawed there used to be a "new" button on top of the list, but now it's gone :S

(http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/5862/wtfqup.jpg)
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Star Dragon on August 02, 2009, 02:32:01 AM
A good way to get a feel for FS2 is to play it! :)

Once you've seen what the base engine does then you move on to the SCP enhancements.

Loading up the B5, BSG:BTRL, and WCSaga demo will show you how the community Devs pushed those limits further.

Once you know what it truly is capable of, then you can start getting "creative" and either find work arounds to get something done, or ideas to be attempted later via new coding.

Animated models (within reason) are now possible. Steve-O proof of concept ship pack is awesome. ;)


I myself use outside models and the FS2 engine for my fanfic as well as just screwing around.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: LOA--JK47 on May 01, 2010, 01:04:58 PM
Why is UV mapping so annoying?

Do you guys tend to apply a general (cube etc) map then tweak it or do you break it into sections and mirror it?

Because it's the LEAST favourite part of the process for me, causing many a promising model to get canned.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: FreeSpaceF on May 02, 2010, 06:58:45 AM
Well, I use Blender; there, I make half the model (you can mirror it later). I go over the entire model, marking seams and sharp edges, tweaking geometry further if needed. Then unwrap it all, check if there's no awkward things, fix them if there are. Then I just jigsaw-puzzle everything onto the map again, starting with the large parts, scaling everything up as much as possible.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Rodo on May 03, 2010, 05:49:45 PM
Quote from: FreeSpaceF;131428
Well, I use Blender; there, I make half the model (you can mirror it later). I go over the entire model, marking seams and sharp edges, tweaking geometry further if needed. Then unwrap it all, check if there's no awkward things, fix them if there are. Then I just jigsaw-puzzle everything onto the map again, starting with the large parts, scaling everything up as much as possible.




I do the exact same thing, the problem for me comes when you are to start making the map itself, I tend to make custom ones most of the times... (I hate MVP tiled maps).
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: FreeSpaceF on May 03, 2010, 06:57:25 PM
Hmm, I tried making my own maps once, and horribly failed. Tilemaps, they're not all that bad IMHO; sure, they have their limitations, but they have advantages as well. Easy applicability, updates (if you're using MVP maps), easy reskinnability too.

For tilemapping, I hardly use seams (anymore); I just apply edgesplit, select linked faces (L) and unwrap (U). Usually, you won't need two maps on a surface anyway, without some kind of sharp edge between them.

In order to make further geometry changes after the edgesplit has been applied, just select all (in editmode) and W -> Remove doubles. This will "undo" the edgesplit, making sure you're not creating odd things. But I bet y'already knew that.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Rodo on May 05, 2010, 02:56:23 PM
Quote from: FreeSpaceF;131455
Hmm, I tried making my own maps once, and horribly failed. Tilemaps, they're not all that bad IMHO; sure, they have their limitations, but they have advantages as well. Easy applicability, updates (if you're using MVP maps), easy reskinnability too.

For tilemapping, I hardly use seams (anymore); I just apply edgesplit, select linked faces (L) and unwrap (U). Usually, you won't need two maps on a surface anyway, without some kind of sharp edge between them.

In order to make further geometry changes after the edgesplit has been applied, just select all (in editmode) and W -> Remove doubles. This will "undo" the edgesplit, making sure you're not creating odd things. But I bet y'already knew that.




NO frikking clue of what you are talking about, I just know 1 way of uv mapping a mesh, that being:

-Applying seams untill I get a somewhat coherent flat map.
-Stretch / Shrink the pieces as needed.
-Add special UV spots (if it's needed).
-Then export to .svn and start making the maps on gimp.

I've heard about tiling in uv, but I have no clue on what that means... I guess it's about taking spots of the mesh and throwing a base texture over it, like the ones seen on most of the models used in campaigns.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: FreeSpaceF on May 05, 2010, 07:27:33 PM
Well, you should be using edgesplit for smoothing anyway. See here -> http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Blender_to_POF_Conversions#Smoothing:

In order to tile a map, you just scale up the unwrapping bigger than the texture size, like in the picture below. The map will automatically be repeated (tiled) to fill the whole surface.

(http://i42.tinypic.com/jhy0e1.jpg)
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Rodo on May 06, 2010, 03:34:53 AM
But... then you've got multiple texture files, one for each piece of mesh you unwrapped?
I thought it was needed for it to be a single file :P
mmm.. will check that later this weekend.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: FreeSpaceF on May 06, 2010, 11:05:38 AM
You do have multiple textures (that's the very essence of tilemapping), but you don't need to load the same texture more than once. A lot of FS capships are mapped this way, you know :P Try opening for example capital01.pof (Orion) in PCS2.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: FreeSpaceF on May 06, 2010, 11:05:51 AM
You do have multiple textures (that's the very essence of tilemapping), but you don't need to load the same texture more than once. A lot of FS capships are mapped this way, you know :P Try opening, for example, capital01.pof (Orion) in PCS2.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: Rodo on May 06, 2010, 03:40:37 PM
Yeah I know, I've had to check the orion before to know which of the textures was the one for the nameplates.
But is it correct to have more than one texture?, that's what I'm refering to... I thought it was "not recommended" to do that.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: The E on May 06, 2010, 04:51:48 PM
Having more than one texture is not a problem. Anything below 10 separate textures is probably OK. Go above that, and you're probably going to run into performance issues. For example, Steve-O's Hyperion (AKA Blue Planet's Karuna) uses somewhere close to 30 textures, and as a result, its usage incurs a far greater performance penalty than you'd think.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread.
Post by: malcolm-john on December 28, 2011, 11:15:01 AM
(http://www.webcam-steamate.com/cookies/35/b/happy.gif)

I've been seeing people ask questions about this, so I'm making this thread to let everybody know so that this forum isn't flooded with "WHY ISN'T SED1 WORKING ON WINDOWS VISTA/7".

Long story short, SED1 won't work on a 64 bit OS because the Microsoft library that SED1 uses does not work with 64 bit systems. No fix is expected anytime soon, so the only way to use it is to either run SED1 in a virtual machine in a 32-bit OS or dual-booting to a 32-bit OS. Sorry.
Title: The Ask a Modeler Thread
Post by: wachchoocup on February 22, 2012, 02:45:48 AM
So wait, whats the actual calendar date of your b-day?

yeah, I could just not be lazy and figure it out, but Im a little groggy and its easier to just ask.  Plus, its another question